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If Vince Young was not a Longhorn

Vinny said:
you miss his message. If it's about David Carr it's 100% team....no way it's David Carr's fault. If the player is Young or Vick then its 100% the Quarterbacks fault for not going to the playoffs 4 of 4 years. It was the team that took the Falcons to the playoffs in those two years...Vick screwed up the other two.:ok:
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Love the response. I see the light now. Thanks.
 
infantrycak said:
People really need to read things for what they say and stop with the imagined slights to VY, etc. Look at the part of my post you quoted--it says 99% of scouts/media describe VY as not as NFL ready as Leinart. That isn't the same as Leinart is 100% NFL ready now. Frankly that is a pretty obvious conclusion due to the fact that Leinart has a year more experience, has been operating under center more and has been operating in a more pro-style offense. Doesn't mean Leinart will ultimately be better or VY will not be a hall of famer--just stick with what it says--Leinart should be more NFL ready.

The other thing folks (AutinJB) can't seem to wrap their arms around is another simple conclusion.

National folks--99% Leinart #1, VY #2
Houston folks--100% VY #1, Leinart who?

On an individual basis there are certainly reasons to prefer VY in a debate, but c'mon--as a group 100% of Houstonians are not in some unbiased way being smarter than a nation full of scouts. It's a close call and the collective thumb is coming down on the local guys' side. That's not a bad thing and between the two I would pick VY as well, but it is pretty silly to deny the phenomena.
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"National Folks" said Texas had no chance to win due to the great team that USC had. I believe that was most of the country too, right? "National Folks" said VY would have a terrible game too, right? "National Folks" gave (that's right I said it gave) Bush the Heisman based on one game (500 yard effort), right? "National Folks" had they been given the opportunity would have recalled their Heisman vote, book it. "National Folks" said VY couldn't pass and win at Ohio State, right?

I could go on and on and you and most posters would probably miss the entire point about VY. The point is this the guy is a gamer. He see a challenge (on and off the field) and rises to the occasion. That is stuff you can't teach. Yeah, he's a born Houstonian but that has nothing to do with it. Will the Texans draft him? No way in Hell. But that might be good for him. If you or anyone reading this has a chance. Look at the Heisman Trophy Presentation this past year with Young, Bush, and Leinart there. I want any of you to look at his face when they gave his Heisman to Bush. I knew right then and there that he was going to will the team to a Rose Bowl victory. Just imagine what he'll do when his home city selects the guy he lost the Heisman to.
 
Nice post Wharton.

VY has tremendous skills and will be a star in the NFL. But besides his UT connection, Texan fans should want him because he is a huge proponent of the city of Houston. From what he has said about the city multiple times on national TV in the last month, I'd say he is currently its biggest ambassador.

Even if you don't want to draft a QB, VY does not deserve all of the flack he has gotten on this board.
 
If Young wasn't a Longhorn, he would still be big on the list because he is from Houston. Now if you were asking if he wasn't from Texas and didn't play for Texas, that is a different question.
 
kbourda said:
"National Folks" said Texas had no chance to win due to the great team that USC had. I believe that was most of the country too, right? "National Folks" said VY would have a terrible game too, right? "National Folks" gave (that's right I said it gave) Bush the Heisman based on one game (500 yard effort), right? "National Folks" had they been given the opportunity would have recalled their Heisman vote, book it. "National Folks" said VY couldn't pass and win at Ohio State, right?
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Nice completely unrealistic recap. USC had a one TD betting line on what was basically a home game and plenty (not a majority, but a significant number) were predicting UT to win. Everyone was expecting a great game rather than the disrespect to UT you imply. Didn't hear a single person predict a horrible Rose Bowl for VY--maybe someone did, but it certainly was not anything like a consensus. Even assuming your little Heisman rant was correct, it omits the fact from this discussion that the other QB in question actually won the Heisman already so it isn't like winning the Heisman would distinguish VY from Leinart. You're way off on the Ohio St. game since Ohio St. wasn't even favored at home for that game and VY was plainly the pony UT was going to ride to victory.

I could go on and on and you and most posters would probably miss the entire point about VY. The point is this the guy is a gamer.
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No, haven't missed that point at all--VY is a gamer, got it, not an issue. Winner who looks like a fantastic QB candidate for the NFL--as aj said, possibly an improved McNair. That's great, but it doesn't change the fact that there is another QB prospect out there who has won a national championship (some would say two), has a Heisman, and is a proven winner as well and if there wasn't a Houston/Texas/UT bias going on he would at least be in the discussion. Since this can't seem to be made clear enough--having a bias for a Houston/Texas/UT guy where the candidates are not clearly unequal is just fine (and using it as a tiebreaker takes nothing, zilch, nada away from VY), but it is absurd to deny its existence.

Actually never mind--I have changed my opinion. VY is clearly head and shoulders a better candidate than Leinart and the only reason anyone in the rest of the country rates Leinart higher is because of a nationwide conspiracy against Texas out of a jealousy against everything Texan.
 
infantrycak said:
Nice completely unrealistic recap. USC had a one TD betting line on what was basically a home game and plenty (not a majority, but a significant number) were predicting UT to win. Everyone was expecting a great game rather than the disrespect to UT you imply. Didn't hear a single person predict a horrible Rose Bowl for VY--maybe someone did, but it certainly was not anything like a consensus. Even assuming your little Heisman rant was correct, it omits the fact from this discussion that the other QB in question actually won the Heisman already so it isn't like winning the Heisman would distinguish VY from Leinart. You're way off on the Ohio St. game since Ohio St. wasn't even favored at home for that game and VY was plainly the pony UT was going to ride to victory.



No, haven't missed that point at all--VY is a gamer, got it, not an issue. Winner who looks like a fantastic QB candidate for the NFL--as aj said, possibly an improved McNair. That's great, but it doesn't change the fact that there is another QB prospect out there who has one a national championship (some would say two), has a Heisman, and is a proven winner as well and if there wasn't a Houston/Texas/UT bias going on he would at least be in the discussion. Since this can't seem to be made clear enough--having a bias for a Houston/Texas/UT guy where the candidates are not clearly unequal is just fine (and using it as a tiebreaker takes nothing, zilch, nada away from VY), but it is absurd to deny its existence.
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I hate to be contrary, but from what i remember, I was sickened by the coverage on MOST (i wont say all, but 90 percent) of the major networks....where does USC rank among all time dynastys, could 2005 USC beat 01 miami, should texas even bother to show up, how will texas stop reggie bush....i could go on and on, but dont try to tell me that plenty of people were picking texas...most people were saying close game, but USC takes it down handily. I've made this point about why matt leinart isnt in the discussion, and i will make it again. Matt Leinart has nothing in his skill set that is noticeably better or different then david carr. Its a lateral move. Your trying to plug another pocket passer into a team that cant make a pocket. Like i said earlier, personally im a fan of the mobile quarterback, and if leinart was the vick equivalent i would want him...i dont do the hometown thing...if you recall, last year i wanted carlos rogers over DJ.
 
infantrycak said:
Nice completely unrealistic recap. USC had a one TD betting line on what was basically a home game and plenty (not a majority, but a significant number) were predicting UT to win. Everyone was expecting a great game rather than the disrespect to UT you imply. Didn't hear a single person predict a horrible Rose Bowl for VY--maybe someone did, but it certainly was not anything like a consensus. Even assuming your little Heisman rant was correct, it omits the fact from this discussion that the other QB in question actually won the Heisman already so it isn't like winning the Heisman would distinguish VY from Leinart. You're way off on the Ohio St. game since Ohio St. wasn't even favored at home for that game and VY was plainly the pony UT was going to ride to victory.

No, haven't missed that point at all--VY is a gamer, got it, not an issue. Winner who looks like a fantastic QB candidate for the NFL--as aj said, possibly an improved McNair. That's great, but it doesn't change the fact that there is another QB prospect out there who has one a national championship (some would say two), has a Heisman, and is a proven winner as well and if there wasn't a Houston/Texas/UT bias going on he would at least be in the discussion. Since this can't seem to be made clear enough--having a bias for a Houston/Texas/UT guy where the candidates are not clearly unequal is just fine (and using it as a tiebreaker takes nothing, zilch, nada away from VY), but it is absurd to deny its existence.

Actually never mind--I have changed my opinion. VY is clearly head and shoulders a better candidate than Leinart and the only reason anyone in the rest of the country rates Leinart higher is because of a nationwide conspiracy against Texas out of a jealousy against everything Texan.
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Now you're catching on :hmmm:

Seriously, though. As if Leinart were the next Alex Smith - a winner by default because the real competition never showed up. At least guys like Big B (in another thread) are finally owning up to this being about dislike for Carr/UT homerism more than a true, pure search for the right quarterback of this team. If you think Carr sucks, so be it. If you think Young really is hands down the best quarterback for this team, so be it. But don't parrot on as if you've weighed all of the options and evaluated the big picture if/when you haven't.
 
Lovefest? No.

Tremendous respect for his ability? Yes.

Example - See Adrian Peterson, Roy Williams, Mark Clayton, etc.
 
swtbound07 said:
I hate to be contrary, but from what i remember, I was sickened by the coverage on MOST (i wont say all, but 90 percent) of the major networks....where does USC rank among all time dynastys, could 2005 USC beat 01 miami, should texas even bother to show up, how will texas stop reggie bush....i could go on and on, but dont try to tell me that plenty of people were picking texas...most people were saying close game, but USC takes it down handily.
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Last point on this as there is no point arguing over what is plenty--was the attention given to USC really disrespect to UT at all much less specifically to VY? Seems to me that is an overly sensitive position. USC was arguably going for their 3rd straight national championship. There was similar hype when the Patriots were going for 3 out of 4 SB's. For the record, the last thing I want to do is plug USC. As a Berkeley grad, the University for Spoiled Children is 2nd only to the largest Taco Bell stand in the world, otherwise known as Stanford, as a team I like to see go down in flames.

Matt Leinart has nothing in his skill set that is noticeably better or different then david carr. Its a lateral move.
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If the skill set is defined as describing them as pocket passers then OK--otherwise there are tons of things said about Young as improvements over Carr which apply equally if not more strongly to Leinart. Young is a leader while Carr is not--Leinart is clearly a leader on his team. Young is a winner while Carr is not--Leinart has as good a winning % if not better than Young's. Other criticisms of Carr's intangibles also could favor Leinart as well--field vision, progressions, pocket presence, judgment, dedication, adaptability/picking up new O's and schemes, reading D's.
 
infantrycak said:
As a Berkeley grad, the University for Spoiled Children is 2nd only to the largest Taco Bell stand in the world, otherwise known as Stanford, as a team I like to see go down in flames.
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Wow I bet you get more pleasure out of the Stanford band game than anyone. I wouldn't doubt if that was your favorite Cal win of all time.
 
TheOgre said:
Wow I bet you get more pleasure out of the Stanford band game than anyone. I wouldn't doubt if that was your favorite Cal win of all time.
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That one and the game where the Stanford mascot said something which po'd the Cal Bear and the Bear decked the Tree and not in jest. Too bad he couldn't lift a leg on him.
 
Actually Vinny, you missed the point as well. I'm not saying that Vick is a bad player, I'm saying that he is good when healthy, but can't stay healthy because he runs so much. I don't care if Vince Young is 5 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier, if you run that much you are going to get injured.

Vick's inability to stay healthy has resulted in inconsistent performance by the Falcons.
 
infantrycak said:
If the skill set is defined as describing them as pocket passers then OK--otherwise there are tons of things said about Young as improvements over Carr which apply equally if not more strongly to Leinart. Young is a leader while Carr is not--Leinart is clearly a leader on his team. Young is a winner while Carr is not--Leinart has as good a winning % if not better than Young's. Other criticisms of Carr's intangibles also could favor Leinart as well--field vision, progressions, pocket presence, judgment, dedication, adaptability/picking up new O's and schemes, reading D's.
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Personally, one reason why I do not think he is a good fit for Houston is no matter what your criticism of Carr is, everyone can agree he is durable and has OK wheels. I'm not sure that a pocket passer like Leinart with recent arm surgery and a knee brace on doesn't seem to be somebody that would be a good fit here.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Personally, one reason why I do not think he is a good fit for Houston is no matter what your criticism of Carr is, everyone can agree he is durable and has OK wheels. I'm not sure that a pocket passer like Leinart with recent arm surgery and a knee brace on doesn't seem to be somebody that would be a good fit here.
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I certainly see that point, but on the other hand I expect the new coaching staff to be planning on a future where the pass protection is at least NFL average which means the point is temporary at best--they darn well better not be planning on the problem continuing no matter who the QB is (according to some there is no pass protection problem and over 50% of the sacks are on DC so any QB will solve the problem). By the way--don't know it for a fact, but saw it stated somewhere that the knee brace is purely for protection and isn't a result of a past injury.
 
infantrycak said:
That's a cute rationale and all, but it is still a rationale and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. VY absolutely deserves to be in the discussion of options for the Texans. He is the classic more raw with a higher upside prospect to contrast to Leinart. 99% of the national media/reporting scouting/draftniks have Leinart ranked as the #1 QB prospect, often with exactly that kind of caveat for Young--possibly higher upside, but raw and not as NFL ready. If folks around here weren't playing home town favorites and the QB was actually as bad as portrayed, there would at least be a legitimate debate on Leinart vs. Young. There isn't. There isn't a single MB poster who agrees with the vast majority of non-Houstonians and argues for Leinart. Is there a legitimate debate over who should be the #1 QB--absolutely. There isn't any debate in Houston--that spells homering for VY and to support that running down DC.
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there isn't a serious thread for D'angelo either....... even though he is a more traditional Runningback....... Does that mean the Reggis Bush guys are just following the hype, and the flash??

Everyone has their idea of what a Runningback is supposed to be........ everyone has their idea of what a Quarterback is supposed to be....... David Carr is not what many of us would like to see in a quarterback........ Vince is. It's that simple........ really.
 
infantrycak said:
I certainly see that point, but on the other hand I expect the new coaching staff to be planning on a future where the pass protection is at least NFL average which means the point is temporary at best--they darn well better not be planning on the problem continuing no matter who the QB is (according to some there is no pass protection problem and over 50% of the sacks are on DC so any QB will solve the problem). By the way--don't know it for a fact, but saw it stated somewhere that the knee brace is purely for protection and isn't a result of a past injury.
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So the knee brace is a new fad?? everyone will be wearing them soon?? doubt it.

Do a poll. I doubt you'll find 2 people on this forum, who think we don't have pass protection issues. But what does the QB do when the protection passes down??

A good QB will make a decent WR look like a probowler......... a good QB can take sooooo much pressure off a RB to make him look like the next Gayle sayers. A good QB, can make a poor offensive line look decent....... or at least serviceable.

A decent QB can make a poor offensive line look like a poor offensive line.
 
Even if he didn't come from UT but came from Houston and won the national championship, we would all be going crazy for him still.
 
infantrycak said:
don't know it for a fact, but saw it stated somewhere that the knee brace is purely for protection and isn't a result of a past injury.
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Weird.

I can't imagine playing with one of those things on without actually needing it. For one knee???
 
And there is this explanation:

8:23 -- Funny shot of Leinart warming up and wearing a conspicuous knee brace. After the Saints locked up the No. 2 pick, do you think Leinart went to USC's doctor and asked, "Can you give me the biggest, scariest looking knee brace you can find?"
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Link
 
Texans_Chick said:
Weird.

I can't imagine playing with one of those things on without actually needing it. For one knee???
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As I recall the explanation, some QB's are starting to wear them on their off-side (front when throwing) leg so it doesn't get rolled up by pass rushers.
 
infantrycak said:
I certainly see that point, but on the other hand I expect the new coaching staff to be planning on a future where the pass protection is at least NFL average which means the point is temporary at best--they darn well better not be planning on the problem continuing no matter who the QB is (according to some there is no pass protection problem and over 50% of the sacks are on DC so any QB will solve the problem). By the way--don't know it for a fact, but saw it stated somewhere that the knee brace is purely for protection and isn't a result of a past injury.
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I hope like hell you are right.....But after 4 years of nothing, i cant walk into any offseason under the assumption the o-line will finally be fixed. Its like the elephant in the room thats being ignored. I hope no matter who we have at qb, they have comfortable 5 second pockets....but god knows i dont expect it.
 
swtbound07 said:
I hope like hell you are right.....But after 4 years of nothing, i cant walk into any offseason under the assumption the o-line will finally be fixed. Its like the elephant in the room thats being ignored. I hope no matter who we have at qb, they have comfortable 5 second pockets....but god knows i dont expect it.
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When you say ignored.............. what exactly do you mean by ignored?? You mean not drafting any Offensive linemen in the past 4 years?? No FA signings?? Or just the fact that they do not appear to perform better??
 
infantrycak said:
No, haven't missed that point at all--VY is a gamer, got it, not an issue. Winner who looks like a fantastic QB candidate for the NFL--as aj said, possibly an improved McNair. That's great, but it doesn't change the fact that there is another QB prospect out there who has won a national championship (some would say two), has a Heisman, and is a proven winner as well and if there wasn't a Houston/Texas/UT bias going on he would at least be in the discussion. Since this can't seem to be made clear enough--having a bias for a Houston/Texas/UT guy where the candidates are not clearly unequal is just fine (and using it as a tiebreaker takes nothing, zilch, nada away from VY), but it is absurd to deny its existence.

Actually never mind--I have changed my opinion. VY is clearly head and shoulders a better candidate than Leinart and the only reason anyone in the rest of the country rates Leinart higher is because of a nationwide conspiracy against Texas out of a jealousy against everything Texan.
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Dear McSnide--THe deal is, as has been amply repeated here on this board, that your hero USC QB is an excellent NFL prospect with, in a generous way, about 1/2 the upside of Vince Young. THAT'S the reason nobody's talking about him for the Texans.

If the two were exactly the same, and Young played in Florida, born in Florida, etc., won the games he won for Florida, YOU WOULD SEE EXACTLY THE SAME RIOT OF SUPPORT FOR Young as you see now, although I'll grant you it might be turned down a notch or two in volume. But the preference for Young, and the exclusion of Line Art would be exactly the same.

Line Art is only a slightly better David Carr.

Young is a whole different thing entirely. Another universe of discourse. The people who believe in Young believe he's Michael Jordan. Get THAT idea and you'll have the difference and WHY so many are stuck on Young and nobody wants to give you a dime for Line Art.
 
infantrycak said:
That's a cute rationale and all, but it is still a rationale and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. VY absolutely deserves to be in the discussion of options for the Texans. He is the classic more raw with a higher upside prospect to contrast to Leinart. 99% of the national media/reporting scouting/draftniks have Leinart ranked as the #1 QB prospect, often with exactly that kind of caveat for Young--possibly higher upside, but raw and not as NFL ready. If folks around here weren't playing home town favorites and the QB was actually as bad as portrayed, there would at least be a legitimate debate on Leinart vs. Young. There isn't. There isn't a single MB poster who agrees with the vast majority of non-Houstonians and argues for Leinart. Is there a legitimate debate over who should be the #1 QB--absolutely. There isn't any debate in Houston--that spells homering for VY and to support that running down DC.
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I read this post last night and my first reaction was along the lines of "yea that makes sense" .... but the more I think about it, the more I believe that this post is as close as any I've seen to capturing the essence of the VY tidal wave.

Quite a few posters have carried out an incessant barrage on Carr (somewhat deserved and somewhat not IMO) as evidence that the Texans should draft VY ...... but if the Texans need a change in QB, then according to a disproportionate amount of draft/talent pundits (outside of Southeast Texas) it should be Leinhart NOT Young ....
 
Nighthawk said:
If the two were exactly the same, and Young played in Florida, born in Florida, etc., won the games he won for Florida, YOU WOULD SEE EXACTLY THE SAME RIOT OF SUPPORT FOR Young as you see now, although I'll grant you it might be turned down a notch or two in volume. But the preference for Young, and the exclusion of Line Art would be exactly the same.
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I can't fathom how anyone could reasonably say this with conviction (other than in the realm of VY mania) ...
 
Nighthawk said:
Line Art is only a slightly better David Carr.

Young is a whole different thing entirely. Another universe of discourse. The people who believe in Young believe he's Michael Jordan. Get THAT idea and you'll have the difference and WHY so many are stuck on Young and nobody wants to give you a dime for Line Art.
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yawwwwwn. you know nothing about what makes a great quarterback. comparing leinart to carr is absurd
 
I have a feeling that one has the potential to be another Carson Palmer while the other has the potential to be a new and improved Steve McNair. In so many of these arguments, people make it sound as if one is going to the HOF and the other will suck and that's what makes me lose interest so quickly as I scroll....
 
chuckm said:
unfortunately the Carr/VY debate has been a zero sum game since the Rose Bowl ...
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yep.. this is why I hope we go ugly on the 1st round.. Every year threads pop up about getting the flashy pick (and basically we have except for TJ) and during the season we (us in the MB) are complaining about not having a line to protect or a line to get after the QB
 
aj. said:
I have a feeling that one has the potential to be another Carson Palmer while the other has the potential to be a new and improved Steve McNair. In so many of these arguments, people make it sound as if one is going to the HOF and the other will suck and that's what makes me lose interest so quickly as I scroll....
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Okay....... you tell me. Name one thing Leinart has that David Carr doesn't. If everything goes right, and Matt goes on to be the best he could be, who would be his closest comparison?? Same scenario for Carr....... if things go as best as it can for Carr now on, where would Carr end up?? For both guys, I'm thinking Peyton Manning..... Dan Marino. Somewhere in that range...

Vince Young, I'm thinking Montana..... Favre.... Elway........ YOung... something along those lines.......

Both have greatness in them........ we've got the Peyton/Marino thing..... we'd rather have the Montana/Young thing...

For the most part, even though we are ragging on Carr.... most of us will be here hoping the best For David, if we do in fact pass on Vince. We're tired of waiting for him to do something. You guys have patience, and can wait for him to make himself look better.... we think he should be at the point now, where he makes the rest of his team look better. He should be making the line look better.... but when he runs out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage with the ball, he makes them look worse. When he runs from a perfectly good pocket, it makes the line look worse. When the left side breaks down, and he runs to the left,



........ it makes the line look worse.
 
Htown34s said:
Even if you don't want to draft a QB, VY does not deserve all of the flack he has gotten on this board.
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I regret sounding like a broken record, but y'all brought this on yourselves with the persistant "if you don't draft VY, you're stupid" rant.

If you plant the seed, don't whine if you have to harvest it later.
 
chuckm said:
Another opinion ....


http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9254669
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I like the last sentence:

12. Vince Young, QB, Texas -- His Rose Bowl performance has his stock soaring. But there are still teams worried about his passing. He has a funky motion and he doesn't have a great arm. It's good, not great. But he is special when it comes to moving outside the pocket. Hard to grade since he's unlike any quarterbacks we've seen.

This guys board is whack anyways. He prefaces' it by saying that Bush is a better RB than Leinert is a QB. So in his opinion Huff is a better S than Young is a QB?

chuckm-
There hasn't been a workout yet. Like many drafts in the past, guys move up and down these boards like a see-saw around the middle of March or sooner depending on when their pro-day is.
ie.-Rogers was ahead of Smith last year, team preference is what had the Colts take Manning over Leaf.
I do have to say that your desire to find those nuggets of info that have VY rated low is admirable, yet it is noted that you do think he'll a great NFL talent, just that you don't want him on this team. Fair enough. I'm just bangin' the drum for a QB change, I'd prefer VY but will take whatever we get if it's anything at all.
 
Big B Texan Fan said:
chuckm-
There hasn't been a workout yet. Like many drafts in the past, guys move up and down these boards like a see-saw around the middle of March or sooner depending on when their pro-day is.
ie.-Rogers was ahead of Smith last year, team preference is what had the Colts take Manning over Leaf.
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so you're expecting Young's stock to rise after his workout? It could happen I guess but it won't go any higher than it was on Jan 5th


Big B Texan Fan said:
chuckm-
I do have to say that your desire to find those nuggets of info that have VY rated low is admirable, yet it is noted that you do think he'll a great NFL talent, just that you don't want him on this team. Fair enough. I'm just bangin' the drum for a QB change, I'd prefer VY but will take whatever we get if it's anything at all.
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I found the link to that article on

http://www.draftdaddy.com/blog/blog.cfm

so it's not like I went into Google and searched for "Vince Young unflattering rankings NFL draft"
 
chuckm said:
I found the link to that article on

http://www.draftdaddy.com/blog/blog.cfm

so it's not like I went into Google and searched for "Vince Young unflattering rankings NFL draft"
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but since you mentioned it and I went back to the page to look for the link, here's another blurb on that same page ....



Mayock on Matt Leinart: “He has tremendous accuracy and touch. I question his arm strength. He has good mechanics, although he has a long motion. But better than any quarterback in the draft, he understands when and where to throw the football, and that’s criteria No. 1 to be a successful NFL quarterback.”

Mayock on Vince Young: “Vince Young is the major question mark in this draft. I think now that all the excitement from the national championship game has calmed down, that more and more football guys are stepping back and saying, ‘He might be the best athlete to ever come out in the draft, given his size, height, weight and speed. But how much do we want to modify our offense to accommodate this young man? … If I’m a GM and I’ve got to guarantee millions of dollars at that level, my personal opinion is I would go in a different direction.”
 
Big B Texan Fan said:
chuckm-
I do have to say that your desire to find those nuggets of info that have VY rated low is admirable, yet it is noted that you do think he'll a great NFL talent, just that you don't want him on this team. Fair enough. I'm just bangin' the drum for a QB change, I'd prefer VY but will take whatever we get if it's anything at all.
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and just for good measure, here's one that has Young ahead of Leinhart ...


http://www.draftinsiders.com/7.html
 
i keep hearing from various "good sources" that young will slip pretty fall after the titans draft cutler. this one guy said a full week before last year's draft that the niners were taking alex smith and that rodgers would fall to the packers. of course, no one believed him then either...
 
Marcus said:
I regret sounding like a broken record, but y'all brought this on yourselves with the persistant "if you don't draft VY, you're stupid" rant.

If you plant the seed, don't whine if you have to harvest it later.
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Surely you don't think that the "you're stupid" rants are made only by VY fans. I've seen plenty of "if you want to draft VY, you don't know anything about football" rants. I just wish that people would bash him because of his football abilities and not because some VY fan is calling people stupid for not agreeing with them.

I agree though that those "you're stupid" posts are annoying and don't really add anything to the discussion. I try and skip them when I can.:redtowel:
 
FWIW--some outside perspective:

Excluding Savage and Chow, a poll of four personnel men and two offensive assistants (all from different teams) revealed a strong lean toward Leinart. Only one assistant thought Young was the best quarterback prospect in this draft. Two of the six thought both Leinart and Cutler ranked ahead of Young.
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Link

Lance Zerlein said something similar the other day--he had talked to scouts from 7 teams and 6 had Leinart rated above Young. He didn't seem to have asked about Cutler.

Savage's explanation makes sense for some of the difference between teams and fans:

"You're probably going to hit a double every time with [USC quarterback Matt Leinart]. With [Young], you're going to strike out or hit a home run," said Cleveland Browns general manager Phil Savage, who rated Leinart as the safer pick at this point. "When you're talking about $40-, $50- and $60-million contracts, you might be better off taking the double. But there's always a team or two that's willing to take that chance.
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It isn't the fans' money so they will often favor the homerun where the guys spending the money will often prefer the safe investment.

And for an off-topic bonus quote on Bush, here is one from his old OC with a tough analysis on his shift to the NFL:

One of the most interesting comments about Bush came from former USC offensive coordinator Norm Chow. Chow said he believes Bush has the ability to be successful in the NFL, but added that he will have plenty of significant hurdles to clear.

"They're huge," Chow said. "Pass protection, blocking, running pass routes. He's played in a good system with a good staff, but the speed of the game – they're all going to be as fast as he is, you know?"
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