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If Vince Young was not a Longhorn

It wouldn't be as strong...but people would still lobby for him because he's from here.

The answer is NOT no, and anyone that says so it's sadly mistaken.
 
Aahh Haaa! But what if Vince Young was an accountant from Houston? Would there be such a fuss over him?
 
Oilers/Texans said:
Would there still be the lovefest for Vince Young if he had gone to OU or USC or any other college other than Texas?
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The answer is not "NO." There probably wouldn't be as MUCH hype in this area, but not for reasons that you think.

It's simple. If he wasn't playing his college ball only three hours from his hometown, not as many people from this area would have seen him play as much as they did (of course USC, Miami, etc are always on no matter where you are.)

I think that most of the VY advocates are obviously those that have seen him play most of his games (at least more than the Rose Bowl.) For the most part, the people that do not want VY are people that have not seen him play on a regular basis.

Of course a guy that is a hometown and state hero, just won the National Championship at a college three hours down the road, and his hometown holds the #1 pick in the draft...is going to get a lot of attention. But if the guy just did the same thing for OU (instead of Texas) against USC, it would still mean a lot b/c it would still upgrade a position where many think is a definite need. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.:cool:
 
Vince could be from New York City and the starting quarterback for USC, and I'd still want to pick him. This is about his play on the football field. Period.
 
For me, yes. Based on what I saw when he was in high school, I would have been watching regardless of where he attended college, as with Adrian Peterson.
 
Of course not. If Reggie and Vince switched hometowns and schools, there is no doubt there would be a huge following of Reggie fans. That's just how it is.
 
But with the new team does VY have the same supporting cast??? If not, is it worse or better??? Same type of coaching??? A coach that didnt try to change him??? Same chance to show his big game skills???

Too many ifs...
 
shrugs...i think im an exception to the vince young because he is from texas thing, and here is why......I love watching mike vick play football...to me the mobile quarterback is the most exciting player in football...if you have a talented one, i wouldnt care if he played in BF, Iowa. I wanted mike vick to be a texan.
 
LMBH said:
For me, yes. Based on what I saw when he was in high school, I would have been watching regardless of where he attended college, as with Adrian Peterson.
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But what if he went to HS in Philadelphia, or Greenville Alabama, or Omaha Nebraska? The point of this argument is solely about his college career.
 
Vince Young was the QB of a national champion, and the way they won that game was a direct result of his leadership and ability. He's been on the national stage for a couple of seasons, so people know who he is just like they know who Reggie Bush is, too.

yeah, I think people would still want him regardless of where he played if it was the same series of events (ie. Heisman nominated, winning a championship) but different school.

The dude has just got amazing upside and potential. I'm not even a Young homer/hater, but I'm amazed at his raw ability and obvious leadership traits. I'd be the first to jump on his bandwagon if he was drafted by the Texans, but it ain't gonna' happen.
 
AustinJB said:
The answer is not "NO." There probably wouldn't be as MUCH hype in this area, but not for reasons that you think.

It's simple. If he wasn't playing his college ball only three hours from his hometown, not as many people from this area would have seen him play as much as they did (of course USC, Miami, etc are always on no matter where you are.)

I think that most of the VY advocates are obviously those that have seen him play most of his games (at least more than the Rose Bowl.) For the most part, the people that do not want VY are people that have not seen him play on a regular basis.

Of course a guy that is a hometown and state hero, just won the National Championship at a college three hours down the road, and his hometown holds the #1 pick in the draft...is going to get a lot of attention. But if the guy just did the same thing for OU (instead of Texas) against USC, it would still mean a lot b/c it would still upgrade a position where many think is a definite need. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.:cool:
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That's a cute rationale and all, but it is still a rationale and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. VY absolutely deserves to be in the discussion of options for the Texans. He is the classic more raw with a higher upside prospect to contrast to Leinart. 99% of the national media/reporting scouting/draftniks have Leinart ranked as the #1 QB prospect, often with exactly that kind of caveat for Young--possibly higher upside, but raw and not as NFL ready. If folks around here weren't playing home town favorites and the QB was actually as bad as portrayed, there would at least be a legitimate debate on Leinart vs. Young. There isn't. There isn't a single MB poster who agrees with the vast majority of non-Houstonians and argues for Leinart. Is there a legitimate debate over who should be the #1 QB--absolutely. There isn't any debate in Houston--that spells homering for VY and to support that running down DC.
 
Oilers/Texans said:
Would there still be the lovefest for Vince Young if he had gone to OU or USC or any other college other than Texas?
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This is the stupidest question, but I'm glad it's been asked again.

NOBODY wants Vince Young because he went to UT. The people who want VY want him because they see in him a once in a lifetime talent, a QB who could actually LEAD THIS TEAM for the next decade or more, and who would probably bring championships with him. In other words, a VERY SPECIAL PLAYER, sort of like Big Ben, Favre, and Cunningham all wrapped up into a single player.

Wanting him has ZERO to do with UT.
 
Nighthawk said:
This is the stupidest question, but I'm glad it's been asked again.

NOBODY wants Vince Young because he went to UT. The people who want VY want him because they see in him a once in a lifetime talent, a QB who could actually LEAD THIS TEAM for the next decade or more, and who would probably bring championships with him. In other words, a VERY SPECIAL PLAYER, sort of like Big Ben, Favre, and Cunningham all wrapped up into a single player.

Wanting him has ZERO to do with UT.
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That is complete and utter BS or there would be a debate over who to take Leinart vs. Young. Only in Houston is there not a debate. Matter of fact, only in Houston is Young treated like the consensus #1.
 
Nighthawk said:
This is the stupidest question, but I'm glad it's been asked again.

NOBODY wants Vince Young because he went to UT. The people who want VY want him because they see in him a once in a lifetime talent, a QB who could actually LEAD THIS TEAM for the next decade or more, and who would probably bring championships with him. In other words, a VERY SPECIAL PLAYER, sort of like Big Ben, Favre, and Cunningham all wrapped up into a single player.

Wanting him has ZERO to do with UT.
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Speak for yourself.Thats kinda funny considering 90% of the people who want us to draft young are longhorn fans.

axman40 said:
To me it does not matter the school , I would take VY #1 !

:stirpot:
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Funny his location says Austin

AustinJB said:
The answer is not "NO." There probably wouldn't be as MUCH hype in this area, but not for reasons that you think.

It's simple. If he wasn't playing his college ball only three hours from his hometown, not as many people from this area would have seen him play as much as they did (of course USC, Miami, etc are always on no matter where you are.)

I think that most of the VY advocates are obviously those that have seen him play most of his games (at least more than the Rose Bowl.) For the most part, the people that do not want VY are people that have not seen him play on a regular basis.

Of course a guy that is a hometown and state hero, just won the National Championship at a college three hours down the road, and his hometown holds the #1 pick in the draft...is going to get a lot of attention. But if the guy just did the same thing for OU (instead of Texas) against USC, it would still mean a lot b/c it would still upgrade a position where many think is a definite need. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.:cool:
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Same for any other prospect. If they had a great college career and you watch a big majority of their games then you are going to want that player more than another player that has the same amount of talent. If Bush or Lienart grew up in houston and went to UT you would barely evern hear youngs name.
 
I have to admit if the Texans are going to take a QB in the first round I would want VY and im not afraid to admit that him being from houston has alot to do with it.
 
I was thinking the question should have been "Would you support the Texans drafting VY if he went to A&M?"

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at amount of UT haters on this board, Houston probrobly is 30% Longhorn, 30% Aggies, and 40% other/indifferent.

Another thing is that Longhorns really don't give a flip about Aggies, 90% of the rivalry smack is from the Aggies. So I guess thats why the anti-VY people are more vocal of this board.
 
Yep, it's a conspiracy. See, our educations are better, thus making we Aggies the leaders of every conspiracy against you tsippers. I've personaly been at bonfire meetings with President Bush, where we discussed keeping Longhorns out of the NFL period, but those danged Red Raiders keep butting their heads in on the matter, and prevent us from following through. We've got the support of the Sooners, and if the blasted Huskers would get their act together, we'd have a big enough majority to keep Longhorns out of everything. I personally supported keeping the Astros from acquiring Roger Clemens, but somehow he slipped through. It's only a matter of time until we have Governor Perry <A&M graduate> ban the color orange being displayed anywhere in OUR state. Gig'em Suckers! ;)
 
FirstTexansFan said:
Yep, it's a conspiracy. See, our educations are better, thus making we Aggies the leaders of every conspiracy against you tsippers. I've personaly been at bonfire meetings with President Bush, where we discussed keeping Longhorns out of the NFL period, but those danged Red Raiders keep butting their heads in on the matter, and prevent us from following through. We've got the support of the Sooners, and if the blasted Huskers would get their act together, we'd have a big enough majority to keep Longhorns out of everything. I personally supported keeping the Astros from acquiring Roger Clemens, but somehow he slipped through. It's only a matter of time until we have Governor Perry <A&M graduate> ban the color orange being displayed anywhere in OUR state. Gig'em Suckers! ;)
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U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, and Gov. Rick Perry. Hutchison was a cheerleader at Texas when the Longhorns won the 1963 title, while Perry was a yell leader at rival Texas A&M when he was a student.

Perry, who wore a burnt orange shirt beneath his blazer, told the crowd that even an Aggie like him could be proud of the championship.
"University of Texas went to California and beat the hell out of Southern California," Perry said. "Mack Brown, you are the man."

I guess the Guv did not get the memo.

:thumbup
 
This question has been answered in every iteration. If he were from USC, A&M, not from Houston, if we were all in Des Moines, etc. The furor for drafting Young has been stoked by his hometown, UT status, and heroics (which shouldn't be discounted)... but it's grounded in his ability.

Bottom line is this, the guy that came immediately before him with a similar game was Michael Vick. He's 4-5 inches shorter, 40 pounds lighter, had a MUCH lower yards per carry average than Young in college, wasn't 1/2 the passer Young proved to be (but had a cannon and a little better quickness), and fell short in winning a national championship. A team traded up to get him. He's gone to 3 Pro Bowls, I believe, has been an effective late game playmaker, and his team has been consistently successful. He has not been a very good passer, but has got the job done in his own way. Ask Atlanta, he was worth the #1 pick.

So this business that Young isn't a legit #1 candidate is a little silly, given the Vick Experience. That doesn't mean Leinart or Bush aren't worthy candidates as well, it just means Young has some very appealing skills and rare playmaking ability at the QB position. Unless that team with the #1 pick has a top 5, elite QB, they would be foolish not to consider him. Nobody rose as fast to the top of the board as Young, and the picking apart, tearing down, second guessing business is expected... just keep perspective. He's a heck of a lot better right now than a lot of guys were when they were drafted #1.
 
ledzeppelin269 said:
But what if he went to HS in Philadelphia, or Greenville Alabama, or Omaha Nebraska? The point of this argument is solely about his college career.
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If I had the same information and an opportunity to see him in the same role that I have, my answer remains. McNair was from Mississippi and I was very hype about him coming to the Oilers. Probably in the minority of seeing him during his college career given the college that he attended.
 
The school makes no difference.The reason I like Young don't have anything to do with the school where he was born or any of that.


The only reason I think Vince snould be draft is because thats the only player in the draft I wouldn't want to face twice a year.


The guy is going to be unstopable,if you ask me.

All you have to do is watch film.He's faster then lineman and LBers seldem get a solid hit on him and he's to big to arm tackle.If you bring a safety up he will find his TE and if you don't you can't contain him.He's like a big Micheal Vick.He's a big solid guy like T.O.

I know the Texans probablly won't draft him because its not the most econmical fit but your going to regreat it..You can write that down.
 
Four years ago I fully bought into and was totally excited about the selection of a relatively unknown (in these parts) QB who went to school in a dusty oil town called Bakersfield and played college ball in a second tier conference. I was excited about him even though he wouldn't come close to sniffing a Rose Bowl, much less lead his team to victory in two of them, or furthermore, win a national championship...so yeah, I guess if Vince went to OU or Georgia, or Purdue, or Arizona St., or Fresno, and he did what he did, I would probably have gotten on his bandwagon regardless.

I may be wrong but I see a new and improved version of Steve McNair in Vince. I'm not a Longhorns fan but I've watched football for a while and I sense greatness in this one.
 
infantrycak said:
That's a cute rationale and all, but it is still a rationale and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. VY absolutely deserves to be in the discussion of options for the Texans. He is the classic more raw with a higher upside prospect to contrast to Leinart. 99% of the national media/reporting scouting/draftniks have Leinart ranked as the #1 QB prospect, often with exactly that kind of caveat for Young--possibly higher upside, but raw and not as NFL ready. If folks around here weren't playing home town favorites and the QB was actually as bad as portrayed, there would at least be a legitimate debate on Leinart vs. Young. There isn't. There isn't a single MB poster who agrees with the vast majority of non-Houstonians and argues for Leinart. Is there a legitimate debate over who should be the #1 QB--absolutely. There isn't any debate in Houston--that spells homering for VY and to support that running down DC.
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Whatever....you obviously think that Carr will be a great QB and Leinart will be better than VY....that's great! I don't.

I don't have faith in Carr anymore (hope he proves me wrong *crossing fingers*) and I'm not overly impressed w/ Leinart. To me, Leinart is a slower version of Carr....and I see what that's like and have no interest in that whatsoever. In your cute little logic above, you failed to take this possibility into account. So...yes, I would rather have VY b/c I believe he brings more ability to the position and will be a great NFL quarterback IMO. And that is why I'm not debating whether we should take Leinart or VY...I clearly think VY has more potential.

That would be the same no matter where he went to school. But as I tried to originally explain, yes...his playing at a local university plays a role b/c you have more in-depth game analysis. Isn't that one of the advantages for local NFL teams...maybe they get to see more of a certain player than scouts/fans from across the country do. Acting like that is a negative and downing people for thinking that VY is great when they have come to that conclusion after personally seem him play, is ridiculous IMO.:ok:
 
Here is why there is no Young vs. Leinart debate. I've raised this point several times. Its not a question of nfl ready vs. not nfl ready. Most reasonable people would admit that leinart is more polished at this stage of his career. Thats not really a point for debate. What most reasonable people would also admit that leinart is primarily a pocket passer. Other facts i would like to call to discussion.

1) David Carr gets sacked an exorbitant amount of times.
2) David Carr is primarily a pocket passer
3) The front office has failed over the entire course of franchise history to adequately address the o-line (obviously, see point #1)
4) It would be hard for a pocket passer to have much success here if the o-line wasnt completely revamped
5) Vince Young has a good deal of mobility as a quarterback.
6) Matt Leinart is not as mobile as vince young.
7) Matt Leinart brings no particular skill set to the table that is particularly distinguishable as an upgrade from david carr. (excepting of course, 4 less years of wear and tear)

All these points lead me to the conclusion that IF we were to draft a quarterback, leinart couldnt even be in serious consideration.
 
if vince young wasnt a longhorn, he would have been a miami hurricane and would have won more than just one national championship. there would have been no brock berlin and he would be what the hurricanes have lacked these last 4 years, a good qb.
 
I dont Care where VY went to school hell im not even from texas im from california im just ready for a change im tired of mediocre play from our field general i could have kitna hell even jesse palmer the bachelor anyone else someone with some fire.:ok:
 
Bubbajwp said:
Funny his location says Austin
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??!!

So? What does that have to do w/ it?

I guess that is supposed to imply that I'm a Homer and will support anything UT...right? I do live in Austin and am a UT fan, but that is not the only reason I advocate VY for the Texans.

I didn't then, and would never advocate Chris Simms for our team (I'd rather have Carr and that is saying a mouthful.) I think David Thomas is a good TE, but I'd rather the Texans pick up Leonard Pope or even Joe Klopfenstein. I think C.Griffin is a good CB and Huff is a good FS, but I'd still rather take Jonathan Joseph or Ko Simpson b/c I believe they'd be a better fit for the team. Point is...I like VY b/c I think he'd be better for the team than Carr, or Leinart for that matter....not b/c I'm a Homer.:ok:

BTW, just b/c someone lives in another city doesn't meant that they aren't Texan fans. In fact, I think Mr. McNair would love to hear of more fans that live outside the city limits. Your logic is faulty at best. Using your logic, I guess the fans in Houston that live closer to the stadium are greater fans than those that live farther away...right?:rolleyes:

Just remember, there are those of us that grew up in Houston, supporting all Houston sports teams that now live in other cities. We still follow the team just as much as you do and sometimes maybe more. We still pay for tickets to go to the games every year. We still have opinions on what we feel is best for the team.:cool:
 
so to answer the question regarding to vince it doesnt matter to me where he played his college ball as long as it wasnt fresno state.:stirpot:
 
if he wasn't on a team as talented as texas they wouldn't have gone too far and no one would care about him
 
BlueThunder said:
All you have to do is watch film.He's faster then lineman and LBers seldem get a solid hit on him and he's to big to arm tackle.If you bring a safety up he will find his TE and if you don't you can't contain him.He's like a big Micheal Vick.He's a big solid guy like T.O.
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Amen to that. Give them eyes so that they might see.
 
BlueThunder said:
All you have to do is watch film.He's faster then lineman and LBers seldem get a solid hit on him and he's to big to arm tackle.If you bring a safety up he will find his TE and if you don't you can't contain him.He's like a big Micheal Vick.He's a big solid guy like T.O.
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Against NCAA talent, yes you are right, but in the NFL he is not going to be able to rely strictly on his athleticism. He will be going up against DEs and LBs who can chase him down and tackle him. Vick has tried this and has had mixed results. Vick is also faster and more elusive than Young. Yes, Vick has been successful when he is healthy, but that is the catch, he hasn't been healthy because he is consistently taking big hits because he runs so much. All scrambling QB's must make the move from being a running QB to a pocket QB or they will have a short career and limited success. Look at Steve McNair, Daunte Culpepper, Donovan McNabb, and even Randall Cunningham. Cunningham had his most successful year when he had one of his lowest rushing totals.

We all know that Vince can run. He will have some success running the ball, but not as much as Michael Vick. If you are expecting him to put up 1000 yard rushing seasons then you are going to be waiting a long time because it isn't going to happen. Vick was able to get close because he has unbelievable speed that only few in the league can match. He will likely never get as close as he did again because he is slowing down each year and I predict that he will eventually become more of a pocket passer who has rushing abilities. Vince will probably get 600 or 700 yards rushing on a good year and I imagine that will probably be early in his career as well. He will realize that he can't keep on running so much if he wants to have a long career, so in the mid to late parts of his career he will probably average around 400 to 500 yards rushing and then 300 to 400 yards respectively. He is about as fast as McNabb, but McNabb has more muscle on him. Vince may be taller, but McNabb is bigger.
 
tulexan said:
Against NCAA talent, yes you are right, but in the NFL he is not going to be able to rely strictly on his athleticism. He will be going up against DEs and LBs who can chase him down and tackle him. Vick has tried this and has had mixed results. Vick is also faster and more elusive than Young. Yes, Vick has been successful when he is healthy, but that is the catch, he hasn't been healthy because he is consistently taking big hits because he runs so much. All scrambling QB's must make the move from being a running QB to a pocket QB or they will have a short career and limited success. Look at Steve McNair, Daunte Culpepper, Donovan McNabb, and even Randall Cunningham. Cunningham had his most successful year when he had one of his lowest rushing totals.

We all know that Vince can run. He will have some success running the ball, but not as much as Michael Vick. If you are expecting him to put up 1000 yard rushing seasons then you are going to be waiting a long time because it isn't going to happen. Vick was able to get close because he has unbelievable speed that only few in the league can match. He will likely never get as close as he did again because he is slowing down each year and I predict that he will eventually become more of a pocket passer who has rushing abilities. Vince will probably get 600 or 700 yards rushing on a good year and I imagine that will probably be early in his career as well. He will realize that he can't keep on running so much if he wants to have a long career, so in the mid to late parts of his career he will probably average around 400 to 500 yards rushing and then 300 to 400 yards respectively. He is about as fast as McNabb, but McNabb has more muscle on him. Vince may be taller, but McNabb is bigger.
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You say michael vick is oft injured. Yes, but you have to remember, michael vick is much much smaller than vince young. Vince Young is built a lot more durably than a michael vick, so the traditional arguement about a mobile qb having to become a pocket qb for health reasons might not apply here. You also say vick has had mixed results.....well, he has gotten to the nfc championship game, which to me would generally be an indicator of success. He has 3 pro bowls, which some could argue is indicative of success. He also has one of the highest winning percentages of any starter in the nfl during his career....also an indicator of success to me. He wins games, he takes his team on his back, goes deep into the playoffs....so what cant he do? Nope, he doesnt put up the stats you would like. However, peyton is regarded on this board as the best qb in the nfl, and he has gotten only as far in the playoffs as vick. All you can do in football is win. If vince rushes for 75, throws for 148, and has 1 td, and we win....what do you care how we got there? would you prefer david carr throwing for 350 and us losing?
 
I've lived in Houston for about six years now and I have never understood how the rest of the nation seems to overlook this cities accomplishments. For instance, Houston was passed over for New York City by the Olympics. When the decision came from the Olympic Committee, Houston had a much better package to offer with a brand new football stadium, basketball stadium along with the old Astrodome (Renovated), and facilities at Rice. Personally, I thought the choice was obvious, but apparently I was wrong. Houston lost out to New York, which eventually lost out to London.
http://www.houstontx.gov/hr/savvypages/archives/Fall02/fall02_olympics.htm

Another good example is the Houston Texans. Two cities were competing for an NFL franchise at the time - Houston and LA. Houston had a solid owner and a stadium deal in place. LA had neither. Houston is a football town, La is not. Bob had to put up an extra $150 to $200 million to get the NFL to come to Houston. LA is still on the NFL most wanted list but all the people I know in LA could careless about football and the NFL.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/1999/1005/98576.html

I find it funny that Houston people would even consider drafting anyone other then Vince Young. Vince is allot like Houston in that people discount what he did for Texas last season. Many of the mock drafts I've seen have 5 USC players going in the first round (Bush, Leinart, White, Justice, Bing), while Texas is represented by 2 players (Young, Huff). Also, most of these mock drafts project Bush no. 1, Leinart no. 2, and Young no. 3. Its obvious USC was loaded with talent, but the Longhorns still won the national championship, mostly due to the play of one man, Vince Young. The City of Houston doesn't get any respect, and apparently, neither does their native sons.
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html

Do I want Vince Young to play for the Texans because he played for UT and because he's from Houston? Yep, that's one reason. Another reason is because he lead an undermanned, under coached team to the national championship! People follow leaders who have passion and desire. Vince has told anyone who will listen that he wants to play for the Texans. I think we should give him that chance.

Aggie Class of '96
:fans:
 
How am I wrong about Vick having mixed results?

First season as a starter = Playoffs
Second season as a starter = Injured for most of season and no playoffs
Third season as a starter = NFC Championship game
Fourth season as a starter = Injured and no playoffs

The only consistency that I see is inconsistency.

Next year he will probably make the playoffs and the year after that he will miss them again. Although, I believe the NFC South is going to be pretty good next year with the rise of the Panthers and the Bucs, so he might have trouble returning to the playoffs next year.

I realize that Vick is smaller than Young, but McNair has cut down his
running, McNabb has cut down his running, Culpepper has cut down his running, and all of those guys are of similar build to Vince Young. A few things happen to most scrambling QB's. They get slower because of age and getting hit, and they get a better understanding of the game and realize that they need to become pocket passers. Vince will be no different. He will have a few good rushing years early in his career and the numbers will gradually go down as his career goes on and his passing numbers should go up as he adapts to the NFL game. Rushing and Passing yards will have an inverse relationship.
 
Wharton said:
Its obvious USC was loaded with talent, but the Longhorns still won the national championship, mostly due to the play of one man, Vince Young.
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I must have missed Vince Young tackling LenDale White late in the fourth quarter on fourth down.

Listen, Vince is a great player, but give credit to the rest of the team. Texas had one of the best defenses, if not the best, in the NCAA last season.
 
infantrycak said:
99% of the national media/reporting scouting/draftniks have Leinart ranked as the #1 QB prospect, often with exactly that kind of caveat for Young--possibly higher upside, but raw and not as NFL ready.
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So I guess you're saying that Matt Leinart is going to go to any team and make them an instant winner because he is "NFL Ready"? I'm not trying to be difficult but when has a college QB been "NFL Ready" coming out of college? Hell, we have a few QB's right now who still aren't (and that's another conversation) "NFL Ready". Really who are we kidding? What's the point of knocking VY? He is going to be who he is. Despite all of his flaws. Despite him not being the best prospect. Despite him not being "NFL Ready" (whatever that is). He's going to be a winner. By any means necessary.
 
tulexan said:
How am I wrong about Vick having mixed results?

First season as a starter = Playoffs
Second season as a starter = Injured for most of season and no playoffs
Third season as a starter = NFC Championship game
Fourth season as a starter = Injured and no playoffs

The only consistency that I see is inconsistency.

Next year he will probably make the playoffs and the year after that he will miss them again. Although, I believe the NFC South is going to be pretty good next year with the rise of the Panthers and the Bucs, so he might have trouble returning to the playoffs next year.

I realize that Vick is smaller than Young, but McNair has cut down his
running, McNabb has cut down his running, Culpepper has cut down his running, and all of those guys are of similar build to Vince Young. A few things happen to most scrambling QB's. They get slower because of age and getting hit, and they get a better understanding of the game and realize that they need to become pocket passers. Vince will be no different. He will have a few good rushing years early in his career and the numbers will gradually go down as his career goes on and his passing numbers should go up as he adapts to the NFL game. Rushing and Passing yards will have an inverse relationship.
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Wow, I guess going to the playoffs 2 out of 4 years is so terrible.
 
kbourda said:
Wow, I guess going to the playoffs 2 out of 4 years is so terrible.
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No...but it apparently is inconsistent.....he prefers the david carr method....stay in the pocket, reach playoffs 0 of 4 years.
 
tulexan said:
I must have missed Vince Young tackling LenDale White late in the fourth quarter on fourth down.

Listen, Vince is a great player, but give credit to the rest of the team. Texas had one of the best defenses, if not the best, in the NCAA last season.
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Well you must have missed that the two heisman trophy winners got the ball back. They had their chance too. Actually, they had two chances plus a two touchdown lead with 6 minutes to go. And by the way, a point no one seems to mention, that was a home game for USC.
 
kbourda said:
So I guess you're saying that Matt Leinart is going to go to any team and make them an instant winner because he is "NFL Ready"? I'm not trying to be difficult but when has a college QB been "NFL Ready" coming out of college? Hell, we have a few QB's right now who still aren't (and that's another conversation) "NFL Ready". Really who are we kidding? What's the point of knocking VY? He is going to be who he is. Despite all of his flaws. Despite him not being the best prospect. Despite him not being "NFL Ready" (whatever that is). He's going to be a winner. By any means necessary.
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People really need to read things for what they say and stop with the imagined slights to VY, etc. Look at the part of my post you quoted--it says 99% of scouts/media describe VY as not as NFL ready as Leinart. That isn't the same as Leinart is 100% NFL ready now. Frankly that is a pretty obvious conclusion due to the fact that Leinart has a year more experience, has been operating under center more and has been operating in a more pro-style offense. Doesn't mean Leinart will ultimately be better or VY will not be a hall of famer--just stick with what it says--Leinart should be more NFL ready.

The other thing folks (AutinJB) can't seem to wrap their arms around is another simple conclusion.

National folks--99% Leinart #1, VY #2
Houston folks--100% VY #1, Leinart who?

On an individual basis there are certainly reasons to prefer VY in a debate, but c'mon--as a group 100% of Houstonians are not in some unbiased way being smarter than a nation full of scouts. It's a close call and the collective thumb is coming down on the local guys' side. That's not a bad thing and between the two I would pick VY as well, but it is pretty silly to deny the phenomena.
 
kbourda said:
Wow, I guess going to the playoffs 2 out of 4 years is so terrible.
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you miss his message. If it's about David Carr it's 100% team....no way it's David Carr's fault. If the player is Young or Vick then its 100% the Quarterbacks fault for not going to the playoffs 4 of 4 years. It was the team that took the Falcons to the playoffs in those two years...Vick screwed up the other two.:ok:
 
tulexan said:
I must have missed Vince Young tackling LenDale White late in the fourth quarter on fourth down.

Listen, Vince is a great player, but give credit to the rest of the team. Texas had one of the best defenses, if not the best, in the NCAA last season.
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I have seen this comment in the past and have ignored it but not this time.

To discount Vince Young’s performance with the above statement is just vulgar. USC had 595 yards of combined offense, were 8 of 14 on third down conversion and had two turnovers. At best, the Texas defense had an average game. Yes, the defense stopped them when they had to, but without Young’s performance, the defense would have never gotten the opportunity.

Vince Young accounted for 463 of 583 yards (200 rushing, 283 receiving). The second leading rusher on Texas had 45 yards. The ball was distributed to seven different receivers with the best performance coming from Thomas at 88 yards, a solid game, but nothing spectacular.

I understand this is a team game, but I cannot think of any other quarterback who could have lead Texas to a victory in the Rose Bowl. With Carr at QB, would Texas have even made it to the Rose Bowl? Would Texas have won the Rose Bowl if David Carr was their quarterback? I think the answer is no to both questions.
 
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