If Bama loses to Florida in the SEC championship game ...

[kastofsna]

Florida has ridiculous athletes at every single position. and an excellent coaching staff.

 

[Mr teX]

Yes, by far I do. It's not so much the playcalling as it is the scheme in general, and his ability to coach that scheme.

You spend all the time recruiting to put yourselves in the best position to win and to get the players that work for YOUR scheme. Remember when Urban Meyer said "I want to have the fastest team in college football." That's what he recruits, speed, because that's what his scheme entails, speed.

When a guy gets the ball 3 seconds after the ball is snapped and there are 1 maybe 2 guys in position to make a play and 1 is the safety and you have a guy with 4.3 speed it's very hard to defend. That's what his scheme is designed to do. Make it easy on the QB and get the ball out of his hands quickly and into the hands of your speed guys.

He makes you spread your defense out then he hits you up the middle with Tebow, who is a very good runner. Don't get me wrong I understand that Tebow is a great runner but it isn't what makes the offense work. Not at all.


It's not only a game of pick your poison with the QB/RB. He makes you respect receivers on both sides of the field and the misdirection with the RB/QB. They may run a play where he fakes to Rainey on an end around, then Tebow fakes a run up the middle, and quickly turns and throws to the other side of the field to Harvin. In order to stop this play you are going to need atleast 3 guys in position to make the tackle on Rainey and Harvin or your toast due to speed. It's very hard to have 3 guys in position to make a tackle on one sideline AND 3 guys in position to make a tackle on the other sideline. Not to mention you have to worry about the 240 lb QB running up the middle. Then they run the same play over and over again yet the ball ends up in the hands of a different guy. What ends up happening is the defense gambles because they can't possible cover every possiblity and expect to win. Eventually you will gamble and lose, and when you do you are dead. That's why they have so many big plays.

And then if you want to blitz, Urban Meyer is very good at making adjustments, and he can really burn you. If you show where your going to blitz from before the snap, your already dead.

To me, that is scheme. The fact that Rainey runs a 4.3 doesn't make him a great or special player, but in Urban Meyer's offense it makes him very dangerous when added to other guys with speed. I attribute that to scheme.

When you've got a guy that runs a 4.3, your probably not going to get him down with the first defender, doesn't matter how good the player is, just how speed works. That's what Urban's system takes advantage of.

I do agree that Tebow's running ability adds another dangerous element to their offense but it is not what makes their offense go.

When you watch the SEC championship game count how many throws you think are difficult. IMO Tebow's biggest downside as a pro prospect isn't his ability, it is that he isn't challenged due to scheme. He isn't asked to make difficult after difficult throw. Something that you will HAVE to be able to do as an NFL QB. Just like bad OL can ruin a QB, being spoiled with easy throws can limit your progression as a QB.

That's essentially why I think Tebow should come out now, because he isn't progressing as a pro prospect in that UF offense. Add that with the situation in NFL coaching now where you could be done after 1 year. Who is going to take a QB in the first round or two that may need 3 or 4 years of time in the NFL to get where a QB that ran a pro-style scheme in college is? I wouldn't because by the time he came around, I probably wouldn't be the head coach.

Just my opinion.

we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Urban Meyer is a great coach & this is no slight on him by any means, but i doubt he has the same success he's enjoyed thus far at Florida if he has the same caliber of athletes he had at Utah or Bowling green. he might pull off an upset here & there, but he would've lost way more than 6 games in 3 years at florida if he couldn't recruit exceptional athletes to help take his scheme to championship contender status. Tebow, Rainey, Harvin & Demps make plays consistently not b/c of his scheme, but b/c they are great players & were top recruits & thus would've flourished anywhere regardless. meyer's ability as a coach can't underscore that.

Alex Smith had a great jr. year at utah but they played noone & statistically, his stats from that year weren't really close to Tebow's 2007 campaign....especially in the run game. the only reason why florida didn't contend that year was b/c they were young & ran into 2 teams stacked just like them in LSU & Georgia...tis life in the SEC. Tebow might not be making difficult throws, but he's making them & the easiest plays are sometimes the hardest to make.

defenses always catch up to offenses due to scouting & film study, so in the end all a coach can do is put his players in the best possible position to succeed & hope his athletes make more plays than his opponents', especially in a conference like the SEC. Put simply, scheme often becomes secondary... it really comes down to your players making plays for you, & speed alone isn't the only factor.

Meyer's no fool, he knows the range of talents he has. They're all fast they only split carries b/c 1 guy might have an attribute that's a little bit better than the other for a particular play. Meyer does well to look for ways to get them on the field together & in space but so does Pete Carroll, Mack Brown & any coach with an exorbitant amount of talented guys. That's just a basic prinicple that more playmakers in use/on the field increases the potential for more big plays & goes for any scheme. But the thing that puts that offense over the top though is Tebow & what he's capable of in the running & passing game.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

Well the BCS was put together so that #1 vs. #2 could play on a neutral field.

I would rather the Big XII bowl eligible teams and the SEC eligible teams all play each other. That could settle the "which conference is better this year" argument.

That's how I feel too. I think Alabama or Florida could easily beat Texas or OU. But at the same time, TX and OU could easily beat Bama and FL. No matter who wins this year, I think Big XII had the better overall conference. The South division was insane.

I think my favorite matchup would be Texas vs. Alabama. That would be a game I'd really like to see.

 

[Goldensilence]

That's how I feel too. I think Alabama or Florida could easily beat Texas or OU. But at the same time, TX and OU could easily beat Bama and FL. No matter who wins this year, I think Big XII had the better overall conference. The South division was insane.

I think my favorite matchup would be Texas vs. Alabama. That would be a game I'd really like to see.

My only thing about an Alabama vs Texas game is I think the defenses match well but I think the offenses are light years apart. John Parker Wilson vs Colt McCoy isn't much of a matchup IMO. It would be how long can the Alabama D hold out and hope their offense puts points on the board.

The Florida matchup will be a pretty good indicator if Bama can contain a high powered offense.

 

[TexansSeminole]

Alex Smith had a great jr. year at utah but they played noone & statistically, his stats from that year weren't really close to Tebow's 2007 campaign....especially in the run game.

Alex Smith's junior year:

13 games: 214 completions 317 attempts 67.5% 2952 yards 9.3 YPA 32 TDS 4 INTs

135 rushes 631 yards 4.67 YPC 10 TDs

Tim Tebow's 2007 year:

13 games: 234 completions 350 attempts 66.9% 3286 yards 9.4 YPA 32 TDs 6 INTs

210 rushes 895 yards 4.3 YPC 23 TDs

"Weren't really close" is not just wrong but dead wrong. They are very close. Outside of rushing TDs. Perhaps this is so because Tim Tebow was Florida's goal line back in 2007? He still is this year. Alex Smith actually gained more yards per carry.

Again it's scheme.

But we should just agree to disagree because this isn't going anywhere.

 

[Mr teX]

Alex Smith's junior year:

13 games: 214 completions 317 attempts 67.5% 2952 yards 9.3 YPA 32 TDS 4 INTs

135 rushes 631 yards 4.67 YPC 10 TDs

Tim Tebow's 2007 year:

13 games: 234 completions 350 attempts 66.9% 3286 yards 9.4 YPA 32 TDs 6 INTs

210 rushes 895 yards 4.3 YPC 23 TDs

"Weren't really close" is not just wrong but dead wrong. They are very close. Outside of rushing TDs. Perhaps this is so because Tim Tebow was Florida's goal line back in 2007? He still is this year. Alex Smith actually gained more yards per carry.

Again it's scheme.

But we should just agree to disagree because this isn't going anywhere.

i hear ya...

Just ask yourself why Meyer chose to risk his qb's health & let him be the goaline offense in the 1st place even though Harvin, James, Caldwell & Rainey were there. There's only really 1 logical conclusion & that's b/c he knows how special a player he is.

 

[TexansSeminole]

i hear ya...

Just ask yourself why Meyer chose to risk his qb's health & let him be the goaline offense in the 1st place even though Harvin, James, Caldwell & Rainey were there. There's only really 1 logical conclusion & that's b/c he knows how special a player he is.

Because he is 240 pounds, bigger than most linebackers. If you run your 240 pound quarterback up the middle from the 4 yard line he is going to get in, wither it be on the first, second, or third carry. Plus they have to worry about the jump pass that Urban Meyer could call.

 

[Mr teX]

Because he is 240 pounds, bigger than most linebackers. If you run your 240 pound quarterback up the middle from the 4 yard line he is going to get in, wither it be on the first, second, or third carry. Plus they have to worry about the jump pass that Urban Meyer could call.

Translation: b/c he's a special player with special qualities for a qb. The jump pass only works b/c of Tebow's ability to run the ball scaring the hell out of defenses. I 'm with u as far as his prospects for the pro game, But there's a reason he was the #1 recruit in the nation coming out of high school....

 

[TexansSeminole]

Translation: b/c he's a special player with special qualities for a qb. The jump pass only works b/c of Tebow's ability to run the ball scaring the hell out of defenses. I 'm with u as far as his prospects for the pro game, But there's a reason he was the #1 recruit in the nation coming out of high school....

Rep for the good debate.

 

[Mr teX]

Rep for the good debate.

Lol, round & round we go... but in all honesty I know how hard it is for u as a seminole fan to give a gator player props for anything... Me being a sooner fan, I felt the same way around 2005 with VY & the longhorns...

 

[bah007]

Lol, round & round we go... but in all honesty I know how hard it is for u as a seminole fan to give a gator player props for anything... Me being a sooner fan, I felt the same way around 2008 with Colt & the Longhorns...

Fixed it.

Just playin with ya Tex...

 

[kastofsna]

Tebow has just been fantastic tonight. has my vote for the Heisman

 

[axman40]

Tebow has just been fantastic tonight. has my vote for the Heisman

Let's see how Bradford does tonight but Tebow IS GREAT!!

 

[Mr teX]

Fixed it.

Just playin with ya Tex...

Ha! yeah i guess that fits too. I'm curious to find out what Texan Seminole thought about Tebow's performance tonight.

Difficult throws?...check.

extending drives with athletic ability?...check.

Leading his team from behind to victory?...check.

Players make plays.

 

[eriadoc]

Alabama is a joke at #1 . They wont even be in the national title picture after playing Florida. Hell they migh not even beat Auburn.

Alabama has some weaknesses, but they aren't a joke at #1. Their defense is for real, and their running game is for real. I do think Florida is better, but it's not as large a gap as you're suggesting.

Who have they beat that is good? They havent played against any potent offense. They are overrated bigtime. They should of lost to LSU. LSU played with one of the worst backup QB's I have ever seen (Remember im a long time Oiler fan) and IIRC 2 backup OL the whole second half and still took them to overtime. Kentucky (6 & 6) gave them a good game 17 to 14. What is the worst loss by a #1 team? Florida will win that game by 20+ with or without Harvin.

I guess I stand by what I said.

 

[kastofsna]

great

 

[Hookem Horns]

I still think Bama is better than Florida and should be ranked higher. You have to look at how each team fared against a common opponent, that is much more important than head to head.

Sincerely,

BCS Computers & OU

 

[awtysst]

I still think Bama is better than Florida and should be ranked higher. You have to look at how each team fared against a common opponent, that is much more important than head to head.

Sincerely,

BCS Computers & OU

See that would be hilarious if the BCS has OU at 1 and Bama at 2!

 

[Mr teX]

I still think Bama is better than Florida and should be ranked higher. You have to look at how each team fared against a common opponent, that is much more important than head to head.

Sincerely,

BCS Computers & OU

It wasn't the BCS computers that did u guys in. look no further than Mack Brown & his peers in the polls &...............the Big 12 conference.

 

[Hookem Horns]

It wasn't the BCS computers that did u guys in. look no further than Mack Brown & his peers in the polls &...............the Big 12 conference.

No, it was the computers that ranked OU over Texas. Texas had the human voters probably because of the head to head factor.

 

[Mr teX]

No, it was the computers that ranked OU over Texas. Texas had the human voters probably because of the head to head factor.

No...after OU beat Tech, the human voters vaulted OU over texas in nearly every major poll for wk. 13 off of their win against tech. This is where they made their most significant jump. Wk. 14 rolled around & Texas regained a slim margin back over OU in the AP & Harris, but the USA today coaches poll still left OU ahead of Texas by 1 pt.

The computers only take into account strength of schedule, record vs. ranked opponents, margin of victory etc. & all they did was balance out once OU played their gauntlet of tough opponents. That was really the main reason UT held a huge lead over OU when the 1st couple of BCS rankings came out in wk. 6-8.....b/c they got their gauntlet 1st. The win over OU helped them out a bit more but was nullified when they lost to tech. The BCS computer rankings reflect the order in which the gauntlets were played in the big 12. Texas, then tech, then OU. It basically came down to who played the gauntlet last once every team lost a game.

 

[mussop]

I guess I stand by what I said.

Florida might not have covered my 20 points but they did win by double digits while playing without Harvin their most explosive and dynamic player. Which I said wouldnt matter. I was wrong about that. They did actually play better than I thought they would. I watched the game while I ws at work so no sound and missed alot. They seemed to be wearing down Floridas defense and instead of running the ball down Floridas throats the decided to get fancy and throw the ball. Strange! I cant imagine a coach of Sabins caliber making that mistake. I guess ill find out watch the recording.

Anyway you were right and I was wrong, they werent a joke. I stilll feel they shoudnt of been #1 though. When you look at the schedule Texas. TT and Oklahoma played there is no comparison. They should of been 4th or 5th at best. Oh well this whole dissagreement just goes to show how people can have a totally different outlook on things. A championship should be decided
by head to head, not someones opinion or a freakin formula.

 

[Hookem Horns]

No...after OU beat Tech, the human voters vaulted OU over texas in nearly every major poll for wk. 13 off of their win against tech. This is where they made their most significant jump. Wk. 14 rolled around & Texas regained a slim margin back over OU in the AP & Harris, but the USA today coaches poll still left OU ahead of Texas by 1 pt.

The computers only take into account strength of schedule, record vs. ranked opponents, margin of victory etc. & all they did was balance out once OU played their gauntlet of tough opponents. That was really the main reason UT held a huge lead over OU when the 1st couple of BCS rankings came out in wk. 6-8.....b/c they got their gauntlet 1st. The win over OU helped them out a bit more but was nullified when they lost to tech. The BCS computer rankings reflect the order in which the gauntlets were played in the big 12. Texas, then tech, then OU. It basically came down to who played the gauntlet last once every team lost a game.

However the following week when Texas beat A&M the human voters put Texas back ahead of OU because of the head to head factor. The computers were the ones that vaulted OU back over Texas because they don't consider head to head. It was clearly the opposite of the previous week.

 

[Mr teX]

However the following week when Texas beat A&M the human voters put Texas back ahead of OU because of the head to head factor. The computers were the ones that vaulted OU back over Texas because they don't consider head to head. It was clearly the opposite of the previous week.

.........

 

[Mr teX]

However the following week when Texas beat A&M the human voters put Texas back ahead of OU because of the head to head factor. The computers were the ones that vaulted OU back over Texas because they don't consider head to head. It was clearly the opposite of the previous week.

hey, look at it how u must, but UT didn't have the voters locked as you claim.

The coaches & harris polls are the only polls that matter for the BCS formula.

After the A&M game, the voters in the harris did put UT back ahead of OU. But the coaches poll did not & that allowed OU to keep the ground they'd made up on UT in the BCS rankings. Since OU had already played there last 2 major games you have to figure that the reason OU went back over UT in the BCS standings was b/c UT did not have the polls.

 

[TexansSeminole]

Ha! yeah i guess that fits too. I'm curious to find out what Texan Seminole thought about Tebow's performance tonight.

I thought Tebow had the best game of his career. Maybe not stat wise, but just playing the QB position. He made some great throws. His first TD I thought could have gotten picked but he put it in a good position for his WR to have a better shot at it. He was a bit inaccurate at times, but I still think he had a great game and the best of his career. This reinforces my belief that he should come out this year, barring what happens in the national championship game.

I thought that Florida's offense missed Percy Harvin desperately.

It will be very exciting to see that Oklahoma defense play against Florida's offense. They were doing a pretty darn good job last night against Missouri's spread. Their positioning before the snap is right on IMO.

 

[eriadoc]

Florida might not have covered my 20 points but they did win by double digits while playing without Harvin their most explosive and dynamic player. Which I said wouldnt matter. I was wrong about that. They did actually play better than I thought they would. I watched the game while I ws at work so no sound and missed alot. They seemed to be wearing down Floridas defense and instead of running the ball down Floridas throats the decided to get fancy and throw the ball. Strange! I cant imagine a coach of Sabins caliber making that mistake. I guess ill find out watch the recording.

Anyway you were right and I was wrong, they werent a joke. I stilll feel they shoudnt of been #1 though. When you look at the schedule Texas. TT and Oklahoma played there is no comparison. They should of been 4th or 5th at best. Oh well this whole dissagreement just goes to show how people can have a totally different outlook on things. A championship should be decided
by head to head, not someones opinion or a freakin formula.

I thought Florida was the better team as well, but I have watched every Alabama game this year, and they're a good team. I was OK with them being #1 as long as they were undefeated, because I knew they'd have to play Fla. in the SEC championship.

If they hadn't abandoned their running game quite so much, they might have kept it even closer. But the better team won. I'll be interested to see if Fox gets their wish of UT and Bama. I'm not sure which is the better team there.

 

[kastofsna]

i know the SEC is having a down year, but because that happens, suddenly everyone immediately starts calling it a terrible conference. it's funny. a conference filled with teams loaded with talent and good coaching doesn't turn horrendous overnight. still plenty of talent, still plenty of great defenses (FAR better than the Big XII), and still good enough to warrant Alabama being #1 after going the regular season undefeated

 

[Goldensilence]

i know the SEC is having a down year, but because that happens, suddenly everyone immediately starts calling it a terrible conference. it's funny. a conference filled with teams loaded with talent and good coaching doesn't turn horrendous overnight. still plenty of talent, still plenty of great defenses (FAR better than the Big XII), and still good enough to warrant Alabama being #1 after going the regular season undefeated

Don't see anyone calling the SEC a joke or a terrible conference. Just is having a bit of a down year and the Big 12 south was incredibly strong this year making the conference catch up with the SEC this year.

I'm not going as far as saying the defenses in the SEC are overrated but they can be skewed in that other then Florida I don't see an SEC offense that can compare to a Big 12 offense. I don't think the defenses in the BIg 12 are as terrible as there are some QBs there that run their offenses to perfection.

I think Tebow is an interesting prospect. His passing proficiency increased this year and he looks much closer to a QB then an athlete playing QB. This year is when he's got to decide if it's the money or if he wants to be good at the next level. If it's the money then this is the perfect year for him to declare. Easily next QB taken after Stafford. If he wants a shot at being good at the pro level, he stays another year and works on his passing game.

 

[kastofsna]

it's one of those snake-eating-its-own-tail things, or maybe a chicken-or-the-egg thing: is the defense so good because the offense so bad, or is the offense so good because the defense is so bad, or the other way around, etc. you can make a case for either one being a huge factor for the high rankings of the offenses or defenses. to me it's pretty simple: year in and year out, the SEC has high ranked defenses, and a high-ranked defense pretty much will always stifle any sort of decent offense when it matters most, especially if it's an offense built on finesse and passing and less on physicality and running the ball downhill. athletic defenses find a way to screw up the rhythm of a great passing game: they get pressure on the QB, they disrupt the receivers' routes, they create turnovers...and meanwhile, on the other side of the ball, Florida has a great offense, and OU's defense is highly suspect, so things can get ugly fast. so i'm pretty much predicting a repeat of the Florida/Ohio State championship.

 

[Mr teX]

it's one of those snake-eating-its-own-tail things, or maybe a chicken-or-the-egg thing: is the defense so good because the offense so bad, or is the offense so good because the defense is so bad, or the other way around, etc. you can make a case for either one being a huge factor for the high rankings of the offenses or defenses. to me it's pretty simple: year in and year out, the SEC has high ranked defenses, and a high-ranked defense pretty much will always stifle any sort of decent offense when it matters most, especially if it's an offense built on finesse and passing and less on physicality and running the ball downhill. athletic defenses find a way to screw up the rhythm of a great passing game: they get pressure on the QB, they disrupt the receivers' routes, they create turnovers...and meanwhile, on the other side of the ball, Florida has a great offense, and OU's defense is highly suspect, so things can get ugly fast. so i'm pretty much predicting a repeat of the Florida/Ohio State championship.

don't get it twisted, florida's defense is suspect too. Bama's RB's ran all up & down their backsides & as someone said earlier in this thread, if they hadn't abandoned it as early as they did in the 2nd half, Florida might've been looking at 1-2 less possessions on offense to have a chance to score. & Alabama wasn't exactly known for it's high powered offense either.

 

[kastofsna]

Florida's defense has been great all year, not really concerned over one game, especially where that one game featured a very talented team running well, as they've done all year long against the same good defenses that Florida has faced. they weren't undefeated in the SEC and ranked #1 going into the game because they didn't have the ability to run the ball well. their o-line is great

 

[Mr teX]

Florida's defense has been great all year, not really concerned over one game, especially where that one game featured a very talented team running well, as they've done all year long against the same good defenses that Florida has faced. they weren't undefeated in the SEC and ranked #1 going into the game because they didn't have the ability to run the ball well. their o-line is great

That's what makes their defense just as suspect as OU's imo. & You could flip that & say the same about any of the top teams in the Big 12. Like u said, it's a chicken or egg thing.

Florida's 1 loss came against sort of a spread offensive team & they gave up 31 pts.

OU's 1 loss came against a solid defensive team & they gave up 45 pts.

are either of these games representative of who these teams are now? we'll see. They each have their pros & cons as to why their defenses are/are not suspect.

 

[kastofsna]

well, there's a big difference between facing a huge brutal o-line like Alabama's and allowing big runs downhill and the wide-open finesse offense of Oklahoma

 

[Mr teX]

well, there's a big difference between facing a huge brutal o-line like Alabama's and allowing big runs downhill and the wide-open finesse offense of Oklahoma

Umm.. last i checked, OU's offensive line was huge & brutal too, so Florida will have to deal with that & OU's passing game. Florida was having to blitz too much to stem Bama's running game...you're not gonna be able to do that too much to a spread offense with a competent triggerman like Bradford. Not saying OU's gonna win, but it's closer than you think it is.

 

[Texan JBZ]

Umm.. last i checked, OU's offensive line was huge & brutal too, so Florida will have to deal with that & OU's passing game.

Oklahoma's oline is good, but not as good as the Bama oline. Plus, Glenn Coffee is a much better back than Demarco Murray. Like I stated in another post, I think Coffee is the most underrated back in college football. The one team that OU played this year who had a good solid defense, they lost to them by 10. Florida is going to be the best defense they've faced since then. Florida's offense has faced defenses from Bama, South Carolina, Ole Miss, and Florida State. And they only lost to one of these teams in Ole Miss who has the best gameday coach in America in Houston Nutt. That's not that bad imo. Bradford and OU will put up points but not at the same clip they have lately against Florida. Not a chance!

 

[Mr teX]

Oklahoma's oline is good, but not as good as the Bama oline. Plus, Glenn Coffee is a much better back than Demarco Murray. Like I stated in another post, I think Coffee is the most underrated back in college football. The one team that OU played this year who had a good solid defense, they lost to them by 10. Florida is going to be the best defense they've faced since then. Florida's offense has faced defenses from Bama, South Carolina, Ole Miss, and Florida State. And they only lost to one of these teams in Ole Miss who has the best gameday coach in America in Houston Nutt. That's not that bad imo. Bradford and OU will put up points but not at the same clip they have lately against Florida. Not a chance!

Of course, i don't see them putting up 60 on Florida, i just think it may be closer than he's predicting. Both teams have athletes & things that each doesn't do well, the other side of the ball more than makes up for it.