I don't get why we need Bush at all.

[dat_boy_yec]

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Reggie won't be a very good NFL player. My posts were mainly directed at those who said we should take RB because he was the bpa, period. I don't think that's true at all. I think you can make valid arguments for Bush, VY, Mario, and Ferguson at #1.

Myself, I think Bush makes the least sense because DD is one of the leaders in all-purpose yards in the league and there is no guarantee that Bush will be more productive. I favor VY because I think if he fulfills his potential you are not only looking at the best player in the league, but a player who can change the position (think Shaq in basketball.) In no way am I trying to say that Bush sucks or will be unproductive, but I am tired of people blindly believing he's the second coming who is going to lead the franchise to glory with very little evidence to back that up.

I've said it before: I think Bush can make a decent team good, a good team great, but not a bad team good. I don't know that he can carry a team and I don't know that he's worth a first round pick to us.

True you can make an argument for any of those players, but at the end of the day which argument will be the strongest. You may not see the point in taking Bush, but the same thing can be said for Young. Why is he not worth the first rd pick? Explain to me who we should take that would have a greater positive impact than Bush.

 

[OzzO]

Maybe Bush can explain it to the Texans FO over dinner.....



Texans | Team will meet with R. Bush
Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:01:07 -0800

Gil Brandt, of NFL.com, reports USC RB Reggie Bush will have dinner with Houston Texans owner Bob McNair, head coach Gary Kubiak, and general manager Charley Casserly April 1, the night before his Pro Day. He is scheduled to travel to Houston for a visit April 6.

 

[dirty steve]

The kid had 13 carries for 82 yards. Decent, but not exceptional. He was outrushed by 2 people in that game: Lendale White and VY. My point is that some of y'all need to come back to earch and pick Reggies jock strap out of your teeth. Reggie is "the man" for a 165 yard (losing) performance. Vince is an also ran with his 467 yard performance? My whole point was about the best player available tag being placed on RB. All I ask is where is any proof of that. I understand he is an exceptional player (and I can even understand people thinking him a better fit for our team) but the fact remains VY did more in college than Reggie did. The numbers don't lie. The head to head matchup doesn't lie.

6 yards a carry is decent?

 

[NederlandTexan]

Nfl defenses will be vastly superior to college ones, and THEY WILL KEY IN ON HIM.

The great players are always "keyed on" and still manage to make things happen. Some feel Bush is that type of player, you clearly do not.

 

[newbiefan]

I hope defenses key on him, which they won't until he proves himself. But if he gets say 50 yards but for some reason is still the focus of defenses (ie... taking away pass rush/ drawing extra guys to the line) for carr to throw for say 300, then he's still a success in my book.

 

[Carr Bombed]

but the fact remains VY did more in college than Reggie did. The numbers don't lie. The head to head matchup doesn't lie.

That definitely is not a fact. So VY did more in college than Reggie Bush, how. Bush has TWO college championships, 1 hiesman, finished 5th in voting the year before. He also ranked first in all-purpose yards per game. Bush would also hold almost every statistical record in USC's history, (which is a history filled with legendary backs such as Marcus Allen and OJ Simpson), if he didn't have to split carries with Lendale White.

He had a 6.3 rushing avg. against Texas, which btw was a HIGHER AVG. than Lendale White had in that game. Texas didn't stop Bush, Pete Carroll did, thats the truth. All year Bush came up with big plays and in the biggest game of the year Carroll didn't give his player a chance. As a Texas fan I'm thankful he didn't, because I feel we might be celebrating a different champion right now.

Bush also had almost 100 yards recieving on just 6 catches at just shy of 16 yards a catch and he did it against the countries top secondary.

Like another poster already said I find it funny how when it comes to Bush, he has to prove what he can do at the NFL level, but when it comes to Young he is the chosen one and is already proven in the eyes of horn fans.

You see the thing that seperates me from other Texas fans is that once Saturday is over and Sunday starts, I take off the burnt orange and put on the steel blue. I recognize what Bush can bring to this team and I recognize the gamble that Young is at the next level.

I love what Young did for Texas and wish him the best, but he has too many questions to be selected with the first pick and as a Texas and Texan fan I can honestly say that if I felt we needed a QB I would be on board with taking Lienart and not Vince and I'm not alone, the entire country and almost every GM shares my opinion. Vince may have a higher ceiling, but the chance of busting with him is double.

Lienart had a perfect second half against one of the best defenses in the country and ran a very complex PRO style offense, he is much more suited for the pro level.

In the latest polls Vince is losing in his own backyard to David Carr.

scroll to the bottom of the page

Having said all of that, it really doesn't matter, because all of our questions will be answered April 29.

 

[swtbound07]

That definitely is not a fact. So VY did more in college than Reggie Bush, how. Bush has TWO college championships, 1 hiesman, finished 5th in voting the year before. He also ranked first in all-purpose yards per game. Bush would also hold almost every statistical record in USC's history, (which is a history filled with legendary backs such as Marcus Allen and OJ Simpson), if he didn't have to split carries with Lendale White.

He had a 6.3 rushing avg. against Texas, which btw was a HIGHER AVG. than Lendale White had in that game. Texas didn't stop Bush, Pete Carroll did, thats the truth. All year Bush came up with big plays and in the biggest game of the year Carroll didn't give his player a chance. As a Texas fan I'm thankful he didn't, because I feel we might be celebrating a different champion right now.

Bush also had almost 100 yards recieving on just 6 catches at just shy of 16 yards a catch and he did it against the countries top secondary.

Like another poster already said I find it funny how when it comes to Bush, he has to prove what he can do at the NFL level, but when it comes to Young he is the chosen one and is already proven in the eyes of horn fans.

You see the thing that seperates me from other Texas fans is that once Saturday is over and Sunday starts, I take off the burnt orange and put on the steel blue. I recognize what Bush can bring to this team and I recognize the gamble that Young is at the next level.

I love what Young did for Texas and wish him the best, but he has too many questions to be selected with the first pick and as a Texas and Texan fan I can honestly say that if I felt we needed a QB I would be on board with taking Lienart and not Vince and I'm not alone, the entire country and almost every GM shares my opinion. Vince may have a higher ceiling, but the chance of busting with him is double.

Lienart had a perfect second half against one of the best defenses in the country and ran a very complex PRO style offense, he is much more suited for the pro level.

In the latest polls Vince is losing in his own backyard to David Carr.

scroll to the bottom of the page

Having said all of that, it really doesn't matter, because all of our questions will be answered April 29.

www.onepeat.com

Stop giving USC too much credit...one national championship. Stop slighting lsu, the bcs champion. Dynasty? Methinks not

 

[Carr Bombed]

www.onepeat.com

Stop giving USC too much credit...one national championship. Stop slighting lsu, the bcs champion. Dynasty? Methinks not

I'm just holding them to the same standard that history holds them to and not bitter LSU fans. 20 years from now USC will be known as repeat champions, its not their fault that the college football championship system is flawed. They aren't the first team that had to share a title and they won't be the last. They have just as much right to that title as LSU, thats why they had to share the title.

 

[Carr Bombed]

In the latest polls Vince is losing in his own backyard to David Carr.
By Carr Bomb

The only reason Carr even has a chance is he's been here from day 1 and another thing ...dude.. Carr has no comparison by far to the best talent at QB EVER yes there I said it EVER.( I mean all around QB)

Thank you for proving my point, this is exactly what I mean. Bush has to prove himself (which is true), while Young is the best QB EVER.

As far as the only reason why "Carr even has a chance", that is total bs. After the Rosebowl the majority of this city wanted VY, but after the hype died down, they now choose Carr. This has absolutely nothing to do where Carr plays, seeing how the ENTIRE COUNTRY shares the same opinion.

 

[TreWardTxn]

That definitely is not a fact. So VY did more in college than Reggie Bush, how. Bush has TWO college championships, 1 hiesman, finished 5th in voting the year before. He also ranked first in all-purpose yards per game. Bush would also hold almost every statistical record in USC's history, (which is a history filled with legendary backs such as Marcus Allen and OJ Simpson), if he didn't have to split carries with Lendale White.

He had a 6.3 rushing avg. against Texas, which btw was a HIGHER AVG. than Lendale White had in that game. Texas didn't stop Bush, Pete Carroll did, thats the truth. All year Bush came up with big plays and in the biggest game of the year Carroll didn't give his player a chance. As a Texas fan I'm thankful he didn't, because I feel we might be celebrating a different champion right now.

Bush also had almost 100 yards recieving on just 6 catches at just shy of 16 yards a catch and he did it against the countries top secondary.

Like another poster already said I find it funny how when it comes to Bush, he has to prove what he can do at the NFL level, but when it comes to Young he is the chosen one and is already proven in the eyes of horn fans.

You see the thing that seperates me from other Texas fans is that once Saturday is over and Sunday starts, I take off the burnt orange and put on the steel blue. I recognize what Bush can bring to this team and I recognize the gamble that Young is at the next level.

I love what Young did for Texas and wish him the best, but he has too many questions to be selected with the first pick and as a Texas and Texan fan I can honestly say that if I felt we needed a QB I would be on board with taking Lienart and not Vince and I'm not alone, the entire country and almost every GM shares my opinion. Vince may have a higher ceiling, but the chance of busting with him is double.

Lienart had a perfect second half against one of the best defenses in the country and ran a very complex PRO style offense, he is much more suited for the pro level.

In the latest polls Vince is losing in his own backyard to David Carr.

scroll to the bottom of the page

Having said all of that, it really doesn't matter, because all of our questions will be answered April 29.

Since we're all high on "facts" at the moment, I just wanted to point out a few that fall in the opinion column after a glance.

Just as you say Bush gained all those yards in spite of splitting time with Lendale, it can easily be said that all that production came because White was there to pound the D and wear them out to the point they weren't able to chase Bush to the corners and handle his quickness. No coach has a player for 3 years, talks about how amazing he is, and then in the biggest game of their lives not give him the ball enough times because of a "brain fart." He felt pounding White gave them the best chance to win.
Bush is an extraordinary talent, but will always need a number-one quality back to spell him, which is why DD doesn't have much to worry about being on the bench too much...

There are plenty of scouts, GMs, and pundits genuinely high on Vince Young's talent. Let's say the Texans had no QB, you honestly telling me you would want a just-as-slow, weaker-armed Drew Bledsoe with a pre-existing knee injury over what could be the most dynamic QB in NFL history, all because the first guy has taken more snaps from center already? I want no part of that on my football team. Like you said, some people are trying to hand Vince the crown already, but I'm not gonna give it to any other guy either just because he has a "traditional" throwing motion...

And just as an aside; Bush was primarily a PR during that first (split) NC year, and he owes his Heisman to the USC defense, which decided that Fresno State was the most unstoppable force in College Football that Sat night. Not as if Heismans matter (they've been an NFL curse mostly), but consider the fact that Young sat out a few second halves and you see numbers do lie sometimes...

 

[hollywood_texan]

I'm just holding them to the same standard that history holds them to and not bitter LSU fans. 20 years from now USC will be known as repeat champions, its not their fault that the college football championship system is flawed. They aren't the first team that had to share a title and they won't be the last. They have just as much right to that title as LSU, thats why they had to share the title.

You are putting too much into USC and Reggie Bush.

As I understand all the major conferences agreed to the BCS so a single national champion is crowned. Maybe it is flawed, but USC agreed to it and should have never claimed a national championship. They don't even have the respect to say co-national champions.

Texas has a requirement that they have win the BCS as #1 to light the tower #1. For whatever that is worth.

Bush is a good player, but watch the Texas game. He's average yards are overstated because of two or three plays. Reggie Bush is either feast or famine. That is why Len Dale White always ran on fourth down for USC and was quiet successful except for that one play. Even Matt Lienart sneaks it on 4th down when Bush is in the game and what is Bush good for, a push.

Bush will have a good NFL career but it will be marked only by highlight reel plays. In the clutch, when you need 5 yards, he is more than likely not your man. However, when it is 2 and 8 and will probably do something awesome.

I think his average yards per run and catch are misleading. I think if you separated the one between under 10 and over, you will see that he makes bulk of yards on two or three plays. Furthermore, you will see most of his plays under 10 yards average below 5 yards, just a guess from watching him.

Just as some people say Vince Young is a 10 pick but not #1, Reggie Bush in not a #1 pick.

He will demand too much money, and if the offense complete takes off, how do you keep Carr, Davis, Johnson, Bush, and these other free agents? Just look at Indy with James.

Trade down and take Ferguson, Williams, Hawk, or Huff. That will help the team out more. Stuff the run and run at will should be the focus.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Deleted insult--infantrycak

WOW very intelligent comeback, you really got me with that one

As far as how you played against him in High School, yeah I've heard that rant before and every person that ever got schooled by a NFL prospect thinks the same thing. I'm sure there is hundred of little high school players that Reggie made look stupid out there too.

But hey we have to take Vince, because this high school football player thinks we should, yeah I'll buy that.

 

[tsip]

WOW very intelligent comeback, you really got me with that one

I guess 60% of Houston is made up of dumb u know whats, HUH, yeah

As far as how you played against him in High School, yeah I've heard that rant before and every person that every got schooled by a NFL prospect thinks the same thing. I'm sure there is hundred of little high school players that Reggie made look stupid out there too.

But hey we have to take Vince, because this high school football player thinks we should, yeah I'll buy that.

...always one more 'up' post, huh?

 

[Carr Bombed]

...always one more 'up' post, huh?

What please explain.

 

[dat_boy_yec]

Ok, let me break some things down for people. Young is not "Better than Carr" He hasn't played a snap yet. To those who say he will be harder to bring down because of his size you got to be kidding me. You say the forty doesn't matter, but in a way it does in Young's case. He ran in the 4.5's not the 4.2's so he is much slower than Vick. How many times does Vick take a licking. Young won't have the speed to avoid taking some of the same hits as Vick. Also Vick is more elusive because of his size it is one thing for a guy around six ft. to spin off a tackle and keep running. It doesn't work the same way for a 6'5'' 230 pounder. Young presents a bigger target and while that was an advantage in college it will be exploited in the NFL. I could keep breaking Young down, but for what the guy is a great athlete and he'll have growing pains in the NFL just like anybody else.
Try to break Reggie down the same way. You really can't the guy has speed everybody saying that he'll can't handle the NFL speed is tripping because he is faster than most guys in the league right now. You know what he packs the same punch as a heavier slower back because he carries the same force and being smaller that force is more compact, basically if a guy gets in his way when RB's running full speed and RB hits him it will hurt. The guy can run inside there is even a run he breaks from the inside in the highlight clip floating around. I don't get it why does everybody think he won't make it in the NFL. The guy has all the tools to be great. Yet, everybody beats the guy down for nothing. Unlike Young there is really no reason to say he won't make it. Name me one legitimate reason he won't make it. Something thats not a gut feeling or to do with the probability of injury because everybody no matter who can be injured.

 

[thunderkyss]

Exactly. Hopefully Moulds will be added to that mix.

You will have the talent and the coaching to create an explosive offense soon. Not in 2010. Now. I don't understand why so many are so ready to jettison that to get a prospect elsewhere (and not much else, from the myriad trade down proposals I've seen in this forum). Why stop yourself from taking a real shot at having a top notch offense? Guilt? Fear?

You don't have to address both sides of the team this offseason equally. The D hasn't been ignored, but if you have the opportunity to turn your offensive into an awesome unit, why not? That's what this draft is about, opportunity. Sure, if someone showed up with 5 high picks between this draft and the next, then you think about dealing it. But not this crap about, say the #5 and a 5th rounder.

That unit starts with the QB. We haven't really addressed that problem. David had a poor, poor offensive line. We have seen how he reacts under pressure. What's that they say about coal...... after a while, it turns into diamonds?? every now & then, you have to undersand you've just got a beat up piece of coal.

It doesn't matter how many offensive weapons you have around the QB, if he can't beat a blitz, Defenses won't afford any more attention to those weapons than they would any other talent. Peyton got owned by the Steelers, didn't matter that he had arguably the best WR at his disposal, or that he's got a ProBowl Running back, a legit #2 Reciever, a Probowl TE, or Probowl offensive linemen. Now, there are only so many teams that are going to try that with Peyton. Look for it to happen often at the begining of the season. Many are going to find that Peyton will beat them more often than not, and will back off on that pressure.

Carr got owned by the worst teams in the NFL..... not just one, or two of the worst teams, but the worst teams in the NFL.

Sure play calling had a part to do with that. But so did Carr.

Drafting Vince won't help us next year. But I still believe it is the right move for the Texans.

More than likely Houston Won't be drafting Vince come April, doesn't change the Fact that I think they should.

People are quick to point out that if Young's ability to run is minimized by the speed of NFL players; wouldn't that also mean Bush's will be neutralized as well??

NO. What people fail to recognize is when Bush runs the ball, he will have blockers and the play is designed for him to run. However, unless the play is a QB draw, then Young’s runs will be improvised. Thus he will not have the blocking or the design of the play to help him advance the ball.

Think about how many times DD was hit in the backfield. That has nothing to do with DD's speed, or lack thereof?? In these situations, there won't be any getting to the corner. Reggie can make the first guy miss in college, he has yet to prove he can do it in the NFL. Defenses also plan on taking out the blocker(s) just as much as Offenses plan on having a blocker.

I'm not giving VY an edge in these situations either.

 

[Bubbajwp]

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Reggie won't be a very good NFL player. My posts were mainly directed at those who said we should take RB because he was the bpa, period. I don't think that's true at all. I think you can make valid arguments for Bush, VY, Mario, and Ferguson at #1.

Myself, I think Bush makes the least sense because DD is one of the leaders in all-purpose yards in the league and there is no guarantee that Bush will be more productive. I favor VY because I think if he fulfills his potential you are not only looking at the best player in the league, but a player who can change the position (think Shaq in basketball.) In no way am I trying to say that Bush sucks or will be unproductive, but I am tired of people blindly believing he's the second coming who is going to lead the franchise to glory with very little evidence to back that up.

I've said it before: I think Bush can make a decent team good, a good team great, but not a bad team good. I don't know that he can carry a team and I don't know that he's worth a first round pick to us.

Insert Vince Youngs name for Bush and that is exactly how I feel.

 

[Bubbajwp]

In the latest polls Vince is losing in his own backyard to David Carr.
By Carr Bomb

The only reason Carr even has a chance is he's been here from day 1 and another thing ...dude.. Carr has no comparison by far to the best talent at QB EVER yes there I said it EVER.( I mean all around QB)

Sometimes I just dont know what to say.

 

[thunderkyss]

When VY torches college defenses that means he will be a superstar in the NFL. When Reggie Bush does it that means he was playing against nothing like he will see at the next level.

Understood.

That is the same argument being laid against Vince. Bush isn't going to miss a beat, in fact, he will be better than he was in college....... But Vince won't be able to run against faster defenses, he won't be able to elude those NFL tackles, and he will get hurt with his un-orthodox running.




Understood.

 

[texplayer2]

I'm not giving VY an edge in these situations either. By Tkyss

Shoot I am and I still agree that Carr is no match for Vince at all and anybody that thinks so really....I mean really don't know the true talent when one smacks them in the face.true true.

Vince(in College) had a hugh line to hide behind and a great recruiting class along with him. He didn't lead a rag-tag bunch of losers to the Rose Bowl Victory with his magnetism.(Amazing he excelled!) Carr I believe was a pretty good College QB as well with a lot less talent around him. His four years here in Houston have been less than stellar, but he is a pro QB.( I bet he would have beaten down Colorado twice just as Vince did this year and standing behind the Texas line he probably would have picked USC to pieces with his PASSING. QB's take time to Develope.

 

[MorKnolle]

You are putting too much into USC and Reggie Bush.

As I understand all the major conferences agreed to the BCS so a single national champion is crowned. Maybe it is flawed, but USC agreed to it and should have never claimed a national championship. They don't even have the respect to say co-national champions.

Texas has a requirement that they have win the BCS as #1 to light the tower #1. For whatever that is worth.

Bush is a good player, but watch the Texas game. He's average yards are overstated because of two or three plays. Reggie Bush is either feast or famine. That is why Len Dale White always ran on fourth down for USC and was quiet successful except for that one play. Even Matt Lienart sneaks it on 4th down when Bush is in the game and what is Bush good for, a push.

Bush will have a good NFL career but it will be marked only by highlight reel plays. In the clutch, when you need 5 yards, he is more than likely not your man. However, when it is 2 and 8 and will probably do something awesome.

I think his average yards per run and catch are misleading. I think if you separated the one between under 10 and over, you will see that he makes bulk of yards on two or three plays. Furthermore, you will see most of his plays under 10 yards average below 5 yards, just a guess from watching him.

Just as some people say Vince Young is a 10 pick but not #1, Reggie Bush in not a #1 pick.

He will demand too much money, and if the offense complete takes off, how do you keep Carr, Davis, Johnson, Bush, and these other free agents? Just look at Indy with James.

Trade down and take Ferguson, Williams, Hawk, or Huff. That will help the team out more. Stuff the run and run at will should be the focus.

That's generally how most RBs work. The vast majority of RBs don't get 3-5 yards every single time they run the ball, they get a lot of no gains or even losses mixed in with a couple big gains that all average out. One of the main points with Bush is that he has the potential to make those big gains even bigger, to make those 25-40 yard runs that Davis and Wells have been making and turning those into longer TD runs. As for LenDale White in the Rose Bowl, football is a game of matchups and White matched up better against Texas than Bush did in those situations. Texas' defense was built around speed not power, so naturally when you're in short yardage situations you'd rather have a RB that is as big as the opposing team's LBs to pound it down their throats. Do the Steelers use Willie Parker on 3rd and goal from the 1 or do they use Jerome Bettis (see end of playoff game with Indy)? Does that mean Parker sucks and isn't a clutch player? No, it means you have different players that fill different roles on a team and you put guys in situations to best help the team. Bush is not a power RB and he never will be, that's why LenDale White was in on goallines and short yardage situations while Bush was in on most general plays. You can't find guys with amazing speed that are also 235 lbs. and great short yardage power RBs, that just doesn't happen.

That said, I agree that I'd prefer to take Mario Williams, whether that is by a trade down or just taking him at #1. He is more of a rare combination of size and speed and improving our pass rush is one of our two biggest needs.

 

[texplayer2]

That is the same argument being laid against Vince. Bush isn't going to miss a beat, in fact, he will be better than he was in college....... But Vince won't be able to run against faster defenses, he won't be able to elude those NFL tackles, and he will get hurt with his un-orthodox running.




Understood.

Bush will fit INTO a system quickly as another option. Vince will have to become the system and be built around( which will take alot more time.).

 

[Mike Kerns]

Love is deaf....as well as blind. . .

 

[thunderkyss]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haams

Myself, I think Bush makes the least sense because DD is one of the leaders in all-purpose yards in the league and there is no guarantee that Bush will be more productive. I favor VY because I think if he fulfills his potential you are not only looking at the best player in the league, but a player who can change the position (think Shaq in basketball.) In no way am I trying to say that Bush sucks or will be unproductive, but I am tired of people blindly believing he's the second coming who is going to lead the franchise to glory with very little evidence to back that up.

I've said it before: I think Bush can make a decent team good, a good team great, but not a bad team good. I don't know that he can carry a team and I don't know that he's worth a first round pick to us.

Insert Vince Youngs name for Bush and that is exactly how I feel.

Admit it. This is a luxury pick. We don't need Reggie Bush, we'll be competitve next year, and will have a successful season. May even beat .500. With or without Reggie.

DD is a reason for Texans fans to be excited. his first two years, he ran for 1000yards. missed it his third season by 24 yards. he is amoung the league leaders in total purpose yards, and he is over 30% of our offense.

We have a promising second year player, at running back.

Then we have a coach, and a coaching system, that would allow ButterBean to gain 1000 yards.
Picking Reggie, is a total luxury pick. Period.

We are spending it on a player we don't need in 2006. IT would be nice, oh so nice to have him next year. But, we do have questions about our QB. He folds under pressure, has no idea where his pocket is, throws sideways after 4 years in the league, hasn't shown the ability to read, pickup, and beat the blitz, and he stares down his recievers.

He can be fixed........ so can Couch........... nah, we didn't want him. So can Joey...... just as talented as Carr, how can anyone say he isn't? Heck, while we're at it, let's bring Ryan leaf to Houston, i'm sure we can fix him too. despite all this optomism, the possibility for Carr to be a bust does exist. How do I know?? because we are at year 5, and still don't know.

 

[texplayer2]

Admit it. This is a luxury pick. We don't need Reggie Bush, we'll be competitve next year, and will have a successful season. May even beat .500. With or without Reggie.

DD is a reason for Texans fans to be excited. his first two years, he ran for 1000yards. missed it his third season by 24 yards. he is amoung the league leaders in total purpose yards, and he is over 30% of our offense.

We have a promising second year player, at running back.

Then we have a coach, and a coaching system, that would allow ButterBean to gain 1000 yards.
Picking Reggie, is a total luxury pick. Period.

We are spending it on a player we don't need in 2006. IT would be nice, oh so nice to have him next year. But, we do have questions about our QB. He folds under pressure, has no idea where his pocket is, throws sideways after 4 years in the league, hasn't shown the ability to read, pickup, and beat the blitz, and he stares down his recievers.

He can be fixed........ so can Couch........... nah, we didn't want him. So can Joey...... just as talented as Carr, how can anyone say he isn't? Heck, while we're at it, let's bring Ryan leaf to Houston, i'm sure we can fix him too. despite all this optomism, the possibility for Carr to be a bust does exist. How do I know?? because we are at year 5, and still don't know.

The new coach says he can help Carr, and I don't think they have the last four years. As far as NEED, we NEED playmakers. A guy who (has the tools) to take it for a score on any given play is a need. Willie Parker of the World Champions. And as far as the QB comparisons, the big difference is our organization still believes Carr can do it, those other guys have no support. You think they are as talented, the guys with the money don't.

 

[disaacks3]

Bush will fit INTO a system quickly as another option. Vince will have to become the system and be built around( which will take alot more time.).

I fully disagree in every aspect that u wrote.:brickwall

Wonderful elaboration on your "points of contention there". You disagree that building a system takes more time than fitting into one? That WAS one of his points BTW...

C'mon guys, Is this horse DEAD YET or what? BOTH players are exceptional physical specimens w/ great gifts for the game at the Collegiate level. Nobody knows for SURE that either will succeed at the next level - whether it be due to an unforseen injury, inability to adapt to the Pro game, or simply never getting the chance to Excel due to a crummy supporting cast.

It is inherently EASIER for a running-back to be 'plugged in' to an existing NFL offense than it is for a QB. Anyone who can't understand this simple concept should leave this discussion before they embarass themselves.

Does VY present a "possibility" of a mold-shattering QB? Yes! Unfortunately, that's part of the problem. A "normal" Pro-style offense would need to be redesigned to take care of VY's unique gifts. No such adjustment need be made for a running back (ANY running back).

Picking VY means giving up on CARR. Fine, you say? What about this year folks? Is Carr's confidence shaky? Sure, wouldn't yours be if you weren't given any real protection, even after your GM and coach publicly announced that it was their first priority? What a better way to show your confidence in him by using your 1st pick in the draft on not only something that has NO CHANCE of helping him succeed, but only shows a complete about-face to the recent extension you gave him! Yep, that just sounds like a GREAT plan.

Vince, in ANY Pro system isn't ready for the NFL game yet. If you're a true VY fan, and you'd rather not see him beaten down and injured his 1st season, pray he goes to a team w/ an aging vet QB on the decline where he can ease into the system. Not behind a 5th year guy (ALSO a #1 pick, for those who've forgotten), whose confidence you've just shot to he*, and in the first year of a new coaching staff.

Reggie Bush is a 'safer' pick and has no real downside, unless you think DD is going to get demoralized by someone to 'share the load' with? Yep, I'd HATE the idea of sharing the load and reducing my chance for injury. Give DD some credit. He's watched Denver too and seen the platoon system they used. Please tell me it occurs to others that DD just MIGHT imagine that Denver's former offensive coordinator (that's his new HC) might like the idea of platooning RB's too? :brickwall I really like DD too, but adding another multi-purpose weapon to this Offensive unit can only make it better. As a fan, I'm more interested in the team as a whole than how big DD's next contract will be.

 

[TreWardTxn]

Young won't have the speed to avoid taking some of the same hits as Vick. Also Vick is more elusive because of his size it is one thing for a guy around six ft. to spin off a tackle and keep running. It doesn't work the same way for a 6'5'' 230 pounder. Young presents a bigger target and while that was an advantage in college it will be exploited in the NFL. I could keep breaking Young down, but for what the guy is a great athlete and he'll have growing pains in the NFL just like anybody else.
Try to break Reggie down the same way. You really can't the guy has speed everybody saying that he'll can't handle the NFL speed is tripping because he is faster than most guys in the league right now. You know what he packs the same punch as a heavier slower back because he carries the same force and being smaller that force is more compact, basically if a guy gets in his way when RB's running full speed and RB hits him it will hurt. The guy can run inside there is even a run he breaks from the inside in the highlight clip floating around. I don't get it why does everybody think he won't make it in the NFL. The guy has all the tools to be great. Yet, everybody beats the guy down for nothing. Unlike Young there is really no reason to say he won't make it. Name me one legitimate reason he won't make it. Something thats not a gut feeling or to do with the probability of injury because everybody no matter who can be injured.

First of all, Young being bigger, stronger, and longer-limbed allows him to keep smaller defenders at bay instead of having to hurl himself through the air or getting tossed around like a rag doll like Vick gets done a lot, those are the collisions that are taking the years off.
To me, that sounds a lot less like Young and more like SuperBush, who never misses a chance to go aerial; he's having fun now, but he'll either learn to press pause on that or enjoy his one and only contract...
As far as breakdowns go, somebody name me one 6 ft. scatback to be successful in this league in the last 10 years...I'm struggling. Let there be no mistake, running is as much about mentality as skill. Bush does not want to lower his shoulder and drive for more yards, he would rather juke or reverse field, so that whole point about him having greater momentum and therefore, force doesn't quite stand up. His height and upright running style leave a lot of kneecap for guys like Polamalu and Bob Sanders to take advantage of, and I doubt anyone has visions of him overpowering LBs in the trenches.

Others have made statements that amount to them believing Bush is a plug and play back, as if you can just stick him in there, give him the ball 25 times and the rest will take care of itself. Not so. If you want him to be around and producing, the way he is utilized must be much more nuanced.

No one can deny that Bush will be an electric talent in the NFL early on, and will provide some great highlight material. But it is definetely meritous to question whether if on top of all the aforementioned concerns, a back who is not a proven short yardage threat should be a #1 pick in football, "a game of inches."

I think that's a decent breakdown, we'll see if you agree...

 

[swtbound07]

First of all, Young being bigger, stronger, and longer-limbed allows him to keep smaller defenders at bay instead of having to hurl himself through the air or getting tossed around like a rag doll like Vick gets done a lot, those are the collisions that are taking the years off.
To me, that sounds a lot less like Young and more like SuperBush, who never misses a chance to go aerial; he's having fun now, but he'll either learn to press pause on that or enjoy his one and only contract...
As far as breakdowns go, somebody name me one 6 ft. scatback to be successful in this league in the last 10 years...I'm struggling. Let there be no mistake, running is as much about mentality as skill. Bush does not want to lower his shoulder and drive for more yards, he would rather juke or reverse field, so that whole point about him having greater momentum and therefore, force doesn't quite stand up. His height and upright running style leave a lot of kneecap for guys like Polamalu and Bob Sanders to take advantage of, and I doubt anyone has visions of him overpowering LBs in the trenches.

Others have made statements that amount to them believing Bush is a plug and play back, as if you can just stick him in there, give him the ball 25 times and the rest will take care of itself. Not so. If you want him to be around and producing, the way he is utilized must be much more nuanced.

No one can deny that Bush will be an electric talent in the NFL early on, and will provide some great highlight material. But it is definetely meritous to question whether if on top of all the aforementioned concerns, a back who is not a proven short yardage threat should be a #1 pick in football, "a game of inches."

I think that's a decent breakdown, we'll see if you agree...

I surely can. Bush isnt going to amount to anything in the NFL. Defenses will contain him, and his lack of between the tackles ability will be his downfall. Electric? If he gets a 100 yards rushing in one game, i'll eat my battle red hat.

 

[whiskeyrbl]

Well I for one have no problem with Bush ripping off a 20..30...50 yard run and let DD drive it in from the one yard line.(RUNNING BACK by COMMITTEE)

 

[Mike Kerns]

If he gets a 100 yards rushing in one game, i'll eat my battle red hat.

Does this remind anyone else of when Barkley told Kenny Smith he would kiss his *** if Yao scored 20 ?

 

[Bubbajwp]

Quote "Young does not read through his progressions" end Quote!

The stats dont lie 3000 + yards 26 TD's, look like he makes his reads, and he pulls down the ball and runs when no one is open. Sounds like a smart QB, but most of the people on this post prefer a QB to be like Carr who sits in the pocket never makes reads and never scrambles! Carr a given 40+ sacks per year, What a statistic!

If stats dont lie I guess this guy is the best QB in the draft
3300 yds 33 TDs
Guess his name
It isnt VY.

 

[thunderkyss]

C'mon guys, Is this horse DEAD YET or what? BOTH players are exceptional physical specimens w/ great gifts for the game at the Collegiate level. Nobody knows for SURE that either will succeed at the next level - whether it be due to an unforseen injury, inability to adapt to the Pro game, or simply never getting the chance to Excel due to a crummy supporting cast.

Agreed

It is inherently EASIER for a running-back to be 'plugged in' to an existing NFL offense than it is for a QB. Anyone who can't understand this simple concept should leave this discussion before they embarass themselves.

Not really. If you've got........ say a Brad Johnson, and a Deshaun Foster. It will be just as easy to just stick either of them into your offense. But if you've got a RB that's going to change the game, or a QB that will change the game, it isn't necessarily inherently easier to install the RB. For instance, if Vince were to go to NewOrleans, where the majority of plays are from the Shotgun(with last years team, and last years coach), there is very little for Vince to adjust to. Same with Tennessee, though they didn't use the shotgun as much, it was a big part of their game. Denver is also a system, IMHO, that Vince can step right into, since they already move the Quarterback around, to help with protection. Then you've got the bad teams, with "a bunch of wholes", who will be getting new coaches, new offensive systems, and have unproven QBs......... you can't really get much worse with those teams. The QB has to learn the new system. The Offense has to learn a new system. SanFran, Detroit, Oakland, N.O. (again), Vince, I think will do just as well starting in Sept on those teams as the young QBs expected to one day take over those teams....... with the expception of possibly Brees.

Does VY present a "possibility" of a mold-shattering QB? Yes! Unfortunately, that's part of the problem. A "normal" Pro-style offense would need to be redesigned to take care of VY's unique gifts. No such adjustment need be made for a running back (ANY running back).

Ricky Williams & Ron Dayne, weren't immediately successful, becuase I think they weren't designed right for them.
Vince Young will be just as successful in a regular Pro Offense(think McNabb, Culpepper, Quincy Carter, Steve Mcnair, Steve Young) as Reggie would be in a team that uses him like they use every other running back in the league. IF you're only going to hand the ball off to Reggie, or throw him screens, he's got a decent shot at being successful. But you aren't utilizing his special talents.
You put Vince in a regular offense, and he has the same chances of being successful. He's shown that he is fairly accurate, and if you extrapolate his YPA by the extra number of attempts Lienart had, Vince actually eclipses Matt's passing yards his senior season. Just like McNabb, Culpepper, McNair, and Vick, the only adjustment that needs to be made, is in deciding when to get rid of the ball. "Normal" QBs have a clock in their heads. after so much time, they need to scrap a play, and start thinking about getting rid of the ball. The more athletic QBs clock tells them when it is time to abandon the pocket, and buy some time for your reciever.

Anybody thinking about designing an offense for Vince to run bootlegs & QB Draws all day needs to be run out of here.......... that, I agree with.

Picking VY means giving up on CARR. Fine, you say? What about this year folks? Is Carr's confidence shaky? Sure, wouldn't yours be if you weren't given any real protection, even after your GM and coach publicly announced that it was their first priority? What a better way to show your confidence in him by using your 1st pick in the draft on not only something that has NO CHANCE of helping him succeed, but only shows a complete about-face to the recent extension you gave him! Yep, that just sounds like a GREAT plan.

For four years now, we've been saying our #1 priority is to protect the QB. We've done nothing different so far this year to address the problem. & one of our offensive line draft picks was picked up quickly and penciled in as a starter for another Pro Team. To me, that says the problem wasn't the players on the offensive line. If the only new starter we see come September is Flanagan, I hope some of you s, will admit that a lot of the problem wears the number 8 on his sleeve.

Vince, in ANY Pro system isn't ready for the NFL game yet. If you're a true VY fan, and you'd rather not see him beaten down and injured his 1st season, pray he goes to a team w/ an aging vet QB on the decline where he can ease into the system. Not behind a 5th year guy (ALSO a #1 pick, for those who've forgotten), whose confidence you've just shot to he*, and in the first year of a new coaching staff.

I take no responsibilty whatsoever in what has happened to David Carr. Just like I doubt many Browns fans take responsibilty for what happened to Couch, or Detroit fans take for Harrington, or SanDiego fans for Leaf.
But I also wouldn't start any QB his first year. not even Lienart, if I've got an $8mil takling dummy itching to get on the field and prove he's worth the cash.
I think all QBs should be eased into the game. & Because I like David Carr, he'll get the first 8 starts, no questions asked, no matter who I draft... Vince, Cutler, Omar, McNeil, Brady......... whoever.

But... Vince(or whoever I draft...... or Rosenfels/Ragone) will work the sidelines with me, if I were coach. I'll call the play, he'll tell me what he would expect, what keys we are looking for in the defense. he tells me when he identifies them, and what those keys should mean to our play. On defense, he & Carr would go over pictures brought down from the booth, with my QB coach... they'll both listen to what he sees, and what adjustments need to be made, if there are any tells by any of the players, etc.... When we go back on offense, Vince(or whoever) we'll come back to me, and demonstrate that he understood everything the QB coach went over.

Reggie Bush is a 'safer' pick and has no real downside, unless you think DD is going to get demoralized by someone to 'share the load' with? Yep, I'd HATE the idea of sharing the load and reducing my chance for injury. Give DD some credit. He's watched Denver too and seen the platoon system they used. Please tell me it occurs to others that DD just MIGHT imagine that Denver's former offensive coordinator (that's his new HC) might like the idea of platooning RB's too? :brickwall I really like DD too, but adding another multi-purpose weapon to this Offensive unit can only make it better. As a fan, I'm more interested in the team as a whole than how big DD's next contract will be.

DD's had people here to share the load with him. They just weren't being used that way. I also don't believe it's a matter of DD not being able to carry the load. get him in Denver's running system, get him into the secondary untouched, and he'll start 16 games, with at least 25 carries.

 

[cuppacoffee]

I surely can. Bush isnt going to amount to anything in the NFL. Defenses will contain him, and his lack of between the tackles ability will be his downfall. Electric? If he gets a 100 yards rushing in one game, i'll eat my battle red hat.

...... .......

Better start boiling the water and stock up on salt and pepper.

Bush will make a lot of people eat some crow, yours' will come with a side order of battle red hat.

 

[bad]

I surely can. Bush isnt going to amount to anything in the NFL. Defenses will contain him, and his lack of between the tackles ability will be his downfall. Electric? If he gets a 100 yards rushing in one game, i'll eat my battle red hat.

Well at least you'll have some fiber in your diet.

This just amazes me. Here you have the highest rated talent coming out of college since most NFL people can remember, the pick is yours and not only do many of you NOT want the pick, you come up with the most ridiculous rationalizations as to why he's unfit for the NFL.

News flash: Reggie runs between the tackles just fine. It just so happens that he can hit the corner before anyone else, has the vision to see the opening and the speed to get around it, so that's where he goes... and if you consider what UT did to him to be containment then you need to ease off the Kool-Aid.

An average Bush touchdown last year traveled over 30 yards and I've heard people here call him "too slow".

I've heard Bush called "too small" but look at the great running backs throughout history. He's closer to prototype than you think.

I for one can't wait to see this Texans offense get very scary for opposing defenses.

 

[chuckm]

Well at least you'll have some fiber in your diet.

This just amazes me. Here you have the highest rated talent coming out of college since most NFL people can remember, the pick is yours and not only do many of you NOT want the pick, you come up with the most ridiculous rationalizations as to why he's unfit for the NFL.

News flash: Reggie runs between the tackles just fine. It just so happens that he can hit the corner before anyone else, has the vision to see the opening and the speed to get around it, so that's where he goes... and if you consider what UT did to him to be containment then you need to ease off the Kool-Aid.

An average Bush touchdown last year traveled over 30 yards and I've heard people here call him "too slow".

I've heard Bush called "too small" but look at the great running backs throughout history. He's closer to prototype than you think.

I for one can't wait to see this Texans offense get very scary for opposing defenses.

well stated ....

 

[Mike Kerns]

Just thought this quote from Jacksonville's Jack Del Rio was pretty funny:

Asked if he was planning to visit his alma mater to watch pro day at USC, where the likely No. 1 pick will be working out for the Houston Texans and other teams, Del Rio shook his head.

"No. I think I'll get to see Reggie Bush plenty this year," he smiled.



They are already fearing The Reggie

 

[Hawg]

Just thought this quote from Jacksonville's Jack Del Rio was pretty funny:

Asked if he was planning to visit his alma mater to watch pro day at USC, where the likely No. 1 pick will be working out for the Houston Texans and other teams, Del Rio shook his head.

"No. I think I'll get to see Reggie Bush plenty this year," he smiled.



They are already fearing The Reggie

I love it. I cant wait to see their faces when Reggie runs all over them with the steel blue on. Its gonna be great!

 

[dat_boy_yec]

First of all, Young being bigger, stronger, and longer-limbed allows him to keep smaller defenders at bay instead of having to hurl himself through the air or getting tossed around like a rag doll like Vick gets done a lot, those are the collisions that are taking the years off.
To me, that sounds a lot less like Young and more like SuperBush, who never misses a chance to go aerial; he's having fun now, but he'll either learn to press pause on that or enjoy his one and only contract...
As far as breakdowns go, somebody name me one 6 ft. scatback to be successful in this league in the last 10 years...I'm struggling. Let there be no mistake, running is as much about mentality as skill. Bush does not want to lower his shoulder and drive for more yards, he would rather juke or reverse field, so that whole point about him having greater momentum and therefore, force doesn't quite stand up. His height and upright running style leave a lot of kneecap for guys like Polamalu and Bob Sanders to take advantage of, and I doubt anyone has visions of him overpowering LBs in the trenches.

Others have made statements that amount to them believing Bush is a plug and play back, as if you can just stick him in there, give him the ball 25 times and the rest will take care of itself. Not so. If you want him to be around and producing, the way he is utilized must be much more nuanced.

No one can deny that Bush will be an electric talent in the NFL early on, and will provide some great highlight material. But it is definetely meritous to question whether if on top of all the aforementioned concerns, a back who is not a proven short yardage threat should be a #1 pick in football, "a game of inches."

I think that's a decent breakdown, we'll see if you agree...

Keep smaller defenders at bay. What are you talking about. You really think Young is going to stiff arm all the smaller defenders that come at him. Speaking of which you think he'll get past the bigger defenders to get to the smaller defenders area. I hate to tell you this but DE's and LB's in the NFL aren't small by any means. Are you trying to say Young is just as elusive and fast as Bush. Get off it man Young's won't be as successful using his legs at the next level because he isn't blazing fast. A lot of LB's and DE's will be able to negate that speed. Oh and as far as scat backs. What about Clinton portis. He averaged 5.5 yds. when he was with Denver and Dunn who totaled close to 1500 yds. last season. Barber, Williams. Oh and one more thing how many times did you see Sanders lower his shoulders. I don't remember him doing so alot. If you can burn somebody for crazy yds. than why run into him and hinder yourself.

 

[Caesar]

I love it. I cant wait to see their faces when Reggie runs all over them with the steel blue on. Its gonna be great!

And how exactly is he going to do this without an offensive line?

 

[dat_boy_yec]

And how exactly is he going to do this without an offensive line?

Who says he won't have an offensive line.

 

[AJExplosion80]

I am thinking that we could really use another back. Doesn't necessarily have to be Bush but someone who can spell DD and Morency because we all know DD needs a good back to relieve him and he is kind of injury prone so we could use another back especially with Kubiak's system with the cutbacks and the amount of times he likes to run. I think a tandem of DD, Morency, and Bush would be good and you can lineup Bush and DD in the backfield together and split Reggie out that's what I enjoy. Also what I like about Kubiak's system is all the rollouts that will hopefully give David a little bit more time than he has had as long as we can get another OL in free agency or trade

 

[Caesar]

Who says he won't have an offensive line.

Not saying he won't, I'm just saying that the Texans don't seem to be working on acquiring any decent OL players.... again.

They could trade the pick to possibly pick up a quality veteran and then draft Brick. But no, they're most likely going to take ANOTHER running back.

 

[El Amigo Invisible]

How long will it take D ' Brick to develope?

 

[dat_boy_yec]

Not saying he won't, I'm just saying that the Texans don't seem to be working on acquiring any decent OL players.... again.

They could trade the pick to possibly pick up a quality veteran and then draft Brick. But no, they're most likely going to take ANOTHER running back.

They acquired Flannagan which is a good pickup. As it stands right now we have 9 linemen on the roster so I would imagine if they were going to draft some in the later rds. that would fill our needs. There are still going to be quality linemen available in the 3rd rd. so I wouldn't be to worried about that.

 

[dat_boy_yec]

How long will it take D ' Brick to develope?

Depends he could be a solid RT by mid-season and competing for the LT spot after 1 season.

 

[El Amigo Invisible]

Depends he could be a solid RT by mid-season and competing for the LT spot after 1 season.

It might take two years to get him up to speed. Then what ? Just like TJ . Oh how I hate who we have drafted the past few years.

 

[dat_boy_yec]

It might take two years to get him up to speed. Then what ? Just like TJ . Oh how I hate who we have drafted the past few years.

Actually Johnson should have been an immediate contributer, but the previous staff was trying to convert him and he was competing with so many other guys. I don't know what they were thinking on that one. He should be a big improvement this yr. though.

 

[El Amigo Invisible]

Actually Johnson should have been an immediate contributer, but the previous staff was trying to convert him and he was competing with so many other guys. I don't know what they were thinking on that one. He should be a big improvement this yr. though.

Thank You Friend . That makes me have alittle bit of hope . But the guys covering the draft thought he would be a great second round pick up (TJ). Poor TJ . I love you because you are a Texan!:brickwall I do not hate you at all.

 

[Caesar]

Regardless of how long it took D'Brick to develop to his full potential, he would still be better than all but 1-2 of the guys we have now.