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Houston Texans 2017 1st round pick, Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
Reread the last line in my quote, then read the 2 second response in your first link. For the record I'm not advocating for Watson to turn into Vick, but he is an exceptional athlete and if he can slide to minimize risk then Im all for him making plays with his legs. There have been numerous, SB winning QBs that have made plays with their legs. They just have to be smart about it and minimize damage.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
Think of it this way. Why max protect?
You keep seven guys blocking.
The QB takes off and run; he's running against 7 defenders with just 3 guys to block for him downfield.
That's hardly a good strategy.
It would depend on what the QB sees in front of him and the in game situation, is it man or zone, down and distance, open field in front of him etc.

I remember watching Schaub thinking if he wasn't so slow he could easily run for a first down numerous times
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Hyper criticality going on. Let's hope his 2nd game is better than his very first. Will be hard because judging by some of the latest comments and "evidence" (lol) that Watson had a Brian Hoyeresque performance.

If he doesn't find a receiver open against a dime package he can't see the field. If his right tackle is getting slapped around like Ray Rice girlfriend and he gets nervous? Happy feet.

Some of you make it seem like situational awareness is a trait that can't be learned when in reality it's the easiest to pick up with repetition and practice.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
It would depend on what the QB sees in front of him and the in game situation, is it man or zone, down and distance, open field in front of him etc.

I remember watching Schaub thinking if he wasn't so slow he could easily run for a first down numerous times
I understand; I'm just saying that this (Preseason, rookie year) is that time to learn to stay in the pocket before it becomes a bad habit.
It's not the time to try to win any game.

This is in response to both of your posts.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
I understand; I'm just saying that this (Preseason, rookie year) is that time to learn to stay in the pocket before it becomes a bad habit.
It's not the time to try to win any game.
And yet you have no idea how he's being coached or what he's being told to do. Let's stop complaining about one game. Let's see how he progresses.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Hyper criticality going on. Let's hope his 2nd game is better than his very first. Will be hard because judging by some of the latest comments and "evidence" (lol) that Watson had a Brian Hoyeresque performance.

If he doesn't find a receiver open against a dime package he can't see the field. If his right tackle is getting slapped around like Ray Rice girlfriend and he gets nervous? Happy feet.

Some of you make it seem like situational awareness is a trait that can't be learned when in reality it's the easiest to pick up with repetition and practice.
I think from now on I just flow with the Kool Aid.
No use trying to analyze Watson's game just to be jumped on. :kitten: :ahhaha:
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
'17 QB Draft class roundup after 1 pre-season game:

Passer Rating
Beathard - 132.9
Mahomes - 126.4
Kizer - 114.1
Trubisky - 103.1
Watson - 81.9
Peterman - 77.4
Webb - 61.2
Dobbs - 56.9
Kaaya - no game yet
Kelly - DNP

Completion Percentage
Mahomes - 78% (9 att)
Trubisky - 72% (25 att)
Beathard - 63% (11 att)
Kizer - 61% (18 att)
Watson - 60% (25 att)
Dobbs - 53% (15 att)
Peterman - 52% (25 att)
Webb - 50% (16 att)

Yards per Attempt
Kizer - 10.2
Beathard - 9.2
Watson 7.2
Dobbs - 6.6
Trubisky - 6.6
Mahomes - 5.4
Peterman - 4.5
Webb - 4.2

Rushing
Trubisky - 3-38 (12.6 ypc)
Peterman - 3-26 (6.5)
Watson 3-24 (8) only TD
Dobbs 1-16 (16)
Kizer 3-12 (4)
Mahomes - 0
Webb - 0
Beathard - 1--1 (-1)

And BTW, who is it worried about Watson running too much? 3 runs, 25 pass attempts, I wouldn't say that was too much at all.
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
'17 QB Draft class roundup after 1 pre-season game:

Passer Rating
Beathard - 132.9
Mahomes - 126.4
Kizer - 114.1
Trubisky - 103.1
Watson - 81.9
Peterman - 77.4
Webb - 61.2
Dobbs - 56.9
Kaaya - DNP
Kelly - DNP

Completion Percentage
Mahomes - 78% (9 att)
Trubisky - 72% (25 att)
Beathard - 63% (11 att)
Kizer - 61% (18 att)
Watson - 60% (25 att)
Dobbs - 53% (15 att)
Peterman - 52% (25 att)
Webb - 50% (16 att)

Yards per Attempt
Kizer - 10.2
Beathard - 9.2
Watson 7.2
Dobbs - 6.6
Trubisky - 6.6
Mahomes - 5.4
Peterman - 4.5
Webb - 4.2

Rushing
Trubisky - 3-38 (12.6 ypc)
Peterman - 3-26 (6.5)
Watson 3-24 (8) only TD
Dobbs 1-16 (16)
Kizer 3-12 (4)
Mahomes - 0
Webb - 0
Beathard - 1--1 (-1)

And BTW, who is it worried about Watson running too much? 3 runs, 25 pass attempts, I wouldn't say that was too much at all.
You didn't count the time I think he should have stayed in the pocket; twice, he ended up having to throw the ball away. There was an open receiver within his read progression.
Those are the things that I "complained" about, not the runs.
Taking off early out of the pocket.
The sack is another example.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Don't get your feelings hurt 76. There are clear pro and anti Watson guys here. You claim objectivity and spend most of your time giving out reasons why Watson isnt very good right now.

Have you 'analyzed' a positive play yet full of power point and slow mo YouTube video?

Not getting into a pissing contest but it is what it is ... We type what we type.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Don't get your feelings hurt 76. There are clear pro and anti Watson guys here. You claim objectivity and spend most of your time giving out reasons why Watson isnt very good right now.

Have you 'analyzed' a positive play yet full of power point and slow mo YouTube video?

Not getting into a pissing contest but it is what it is ... We type what we type.
We (I) ALREADY know what he's good at.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
You didn't count the time I think he should have stayed in the pocket; twice, he ended up having to throw the ball away. There was an open receiver within his read progression.
Those are the things that I "complained" about, not the runs.
Taking off early out of the pocket.
The sack is another example.
You do understand this guy is not coming into the NFL as a polished All-Pro veteran, right?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Don't get your feelings hurt 76. There are clear pro and anti Watson guys here. You claim objectivity and spend most of your time giving out reasons why Watson isnt very good right now.

Have you 'analyzed' a positive play yet full of power point and slow mo YouTube video?

Not getting into a pissing contest but it is what it is ... We type what we type.
We (I) ALREADY know what he's good at.
I'd like to see him working on the things he's not as proficient at so he can maximize his potential.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Right. And a 1st ever pre-season game doesn't mean he's not working on those things. Let the man learn the game.
Did you watch Trubisky and the other rookie QBs?
Even C J Beathard was calm and cool with pocket presence. Two TDs; and there were at least a 40-yd pass that was called back due to penalty. He was more poised than Watson, I'm sorry to say.

The man can learn the game; I'm not stopping him. :)

But they call it "tough love", I believe. :brando:
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Did you watch Trubisky and the other rookie QBs?
Even C J Beathard was calm and cool with pocket presence. Two TDs; and there were at least a 40-yd pass that was called back due to penalty. He was more poised than Watson, I'm sorry to say.

The man can learn the game; I'm not stopping him. :)

But they call it "tough love", I believe. :brando:
Well, shit, I guess cut the guy and let's try to move on. I mean one pre-season game has set the fortunes of these players apparently. Should have moved up 13 spots to draft Beathard. DAMN YOU Rick Smith!!
 

LikeMike

Veteran
Just to moderate a little here... I feel like everyone is feeling pretty similar about Watson. 76 is simple pointing out, what BoB will in practice - the things he could have handled better. He is a rookie, he doesn't have to be perfect in his first preseason game. Now they have gametape, they see a lot of good things and Promise, and they have seen things he could have done better. Missed an open guy here, took off too fast there, overthrew his receiver on another play.

Still a pretty good first outing, just not perfect. I like what I have seen, and I can't wait to see, if he can correct his mistakes...
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Hyper criticality going on. Let's hope his 2nd game is better than his very first. Will be hard because judging by some of the latest comments and "evidence" (lol) that Watson had a Brian Hoyeresque performance.

If he doesn't find a receiver open against a dime package he can't see the field. If his right tackle is getting slapped around like Ray Rice girlfriend and he gets nervous? Happy feet.

Some of you make it seem like situational awareness is a trait that can't be learned when in reality it's the easiest to pick up with repetition and practice.
I want to see a couple of things.

1. Watson play a couple of series with the 1's.
2. Improve his accuracy in the deep and deep intermediate passing game.

I thought Watson had a good game for his 1st game but still has alot to work on. A promising start.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
Just to moderate a little here... I feel like everyone is feeling pretty similar about Watson. 76 is simple pointing out, what BoB will in practice - the things he could have handled better...
O'Brien will see things, both good and bad, that 76Texan doesn't see. The play by play analysis comes off as nitpicking, especially when you don't take into account what the other 10 players on offense and 11 players on defense are doing.

I think as a fan, there are some things we can read into Watson's performance. Did he look poised? Did his tools look sufficient? Did he show good judgement? I would say yes on all accounts. In Watson's first professional game, he looks more than ready for his second. I'd still like to see him in a series with the 1st team to see how he handles that. I also would like to see Belichick show Watson some wrinkles next week.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
O'Brien will see things, both good and bad, that 76Texan doesn't see. The play by play analysis comes off as nitpicking, especially when you don't take into account what the other 10 players on offense and 11 players on defense are doing.

I think as a fan, there are some things we can read into Watson's performance. Did he look poised? Did his tools look sufficient? Did he show good judgement? I would say yes on all accounts. In Watson's first professional game, he looks more than ready for his second. I'd still like to see him in a series with the 1st team to see how he handles that. I also would like to see Belichick show Watson some wrinkles next week.
Well said
 

Texas Jake

Rookie
Sure; but I had stated that I think it's best for Watson to try hard to stay in the pocket early on in his pro career. It will only make him better in the long run.
Not disagreing with you at all. Just pointing out another aspect of the NFL he needs to adjust to.
 
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Mangler

Veteran
This would be a huge mistake. Deshaun has excellent scrambling/running ability and it would be in his best interest to use it. He just needs to be smart about taking hits. QBs that are mobile can put tremendous pressure on defenses. I think as he gets more comfortable with the offense and the speed of the NFL he'll make more plays from the pocket.

To put it in other terms you wouldn't take a pitcher with a 98mph fastball and tell him he should spend his first season only throwing change ups, sliders and curve balls because he'll be better off in the long run. You let him play to his strengths whilst developing his weaknesses
Sad part about it is, O'Brien probably wants to change him into a "pure pocket passer" taking away his big playmaking ability using his legs. He's also pretty accurate on the run, so making him stationary would be a big mistake. That's just my opinion though, not saying it's bible.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
Sad part about it is, O'Brien probably wants to change him into a "pure pocket passer" taking away his big playmaking ability using his legs. He's also pretty accurate on the run, so making him stationary would be a big mistake. That's just my opinion though, not saying it's bible.
Actually in a post game interview Watson said O'Brien told him to just be himself, if a play was there take it, or something to that effect. Most good coaches work with players strengths, which we saw in the play calling against Carolina. Hopefully O Brien continues this while helping Watson become more proficient out of the pocket.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Actually in a post game interview Watson said O'Brien told him to just be himself, if a play was there take it, or something to that effect. Most good coaches work with players strengths, which we saw in the play calling against Carolina. Hopefully O Brien continues this while helping Watson become more proficient out of the pocket.
BOB even called plays that fit with Watson's strengths, so I would like to know why Mangler feels the way he does about BOB, or has he always hated the BOB hire?
 

Marcus

Windmill cancer survivor
Which totally belies your stance on 'don't run'.

Sometime running is useful. Don't condemn Watson because he's a rookie doing it
Actually, that's kind of the gist I'm picking up here, and I guess it's going to last all season long.

The rush to condemn Watson unfairly is based upon the intolerance of rookies and rookie mistakes. He is going to make mistakes. He might even cost us a couple of ballgames. I'm accepting that going in.
 

LikeMike

Veteran
O'Brien will see things, both good and bad, that 76Texan doesn't see. The play by play analysis comes off as nitpicking, especially when you don't take into account what the other 10 players on offense and 11 players on defense are doing.

I think as a fan, there are some things we can read into Watson's performance. Did he look poised? Did his tools look sufficient? Did he show good judgement? I would say yes on all accounts. In Watson's first professional game, he looks more than ready for his second. I'd still like to see him in a series with the 1st team to see how he handles that. I also would like to see Belichick show Watson some wrinkles next week.

Yeah, I completely agree with you. But I still appreciate 76s analysis. He is focusing on what Watson did wrong. And he did do several things wrong - just as you would expect with a rookie. I like to read about those things. And if those things are typical rookie mistakes that are easily correctable, I feel all right about that.

It's not as if he is saying, Watsons mechanics are wrong - it's not that he is saying, he looks mentally overwhelmed or not able to intellectually process everything. There are no red flags here. All in all he looked really good and in control - he looks like the most talented QB we ever had. Now BoB and Watson just need to put the work in, to get him to succeed.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Actually in a post game interview Watson said O'Brien told him to just be himself, if a play was there take it, or something to that effect. Most good coaches work with players strengths, which we saw in the play calling against Carolina. Hopefully O Brien continues this while helping Watson become more proficient out of the pocket.
Haha, had Watson remain himself, he would have ran all over the place; he wouldn't have slid down.
You want a Watsoncopter?
Should I condemn him for not being himself, or should I say I like the fact that he's making effort in that area?

Steve Young himself was quite a scrambler in college. 9 rushes vs Watson's 11.
He cut it down to just over 3 in the NFL. It took him a little while.
It could be argued that the Buccs probably traded him away because he didn't quite get it early on in his career.

Now when the chips are down; in the playoffs, it would be a different story. That's the time to go big or go home.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Actually, that's kind of the gist I'm picking up here, and I guess it's going to last all season long.

The rush to condemn Watson unfairly is based upon the intolerance of rookies and rookie mistakes. He is going to make mistakes. He might even cost us a couple of ballgames. I'm accepting that going in.
Who says I'm not going to accept some mistakes?
Even Drew Brees had a couple of 4-int games (and numerous games with 3).
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
Yeah, I completely agree with you. But I still appreciate 76s analysis.
I'm not bashing 76. He's doing his thing and has been doing it for a long time. He's toned it down a bit, which makes his stuff much easier to read, IMO. What I'm saying is there's a lot to a football game that's not apparent by just watching the screen. I just think looking at a more global view is more informative, rather than trying to dissect every movement.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I'm not bashing 76. He's doing his thing and has been doing it for a long time. He's toned it down a bit, which makes his stuff much easier to read, IMO. What I'm saying is there's a lot to a football game that's not apparent by just watching the screen. I just think looking at a more global view is more informative, rather than trying to dissect every movement.
Yes, I do watch the All 22 when I can.
I used to subscribe to the NFL game pass just for that.
Now, I catch any torrent I can (and not just of Texans' game).

I enjoy seeing the whole thing.
It helps in the guessing as to what the offense tries to do and how the D counteracts and vice versa.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Actually, that's kind of the gist I'm picking up here, and I guess it's going to last all season long.

The rush to condemn Watson unfairly is based upon the intolerance of rookies and rookie mistakes. He is going to make mistakes. He might even cost us a couple of ballgames. I'm accepting that going in.
Some try to add objectivity. Some can't handle it and get overly defensive.

It's like talking to a women about shopping too much. Tell her she doesn't need that stuff and all of a sudden you hate her.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
So by those examples, every QB in the NFL should be labeled inaccurae then correct?

By those examples all QB's will have some throws that are "inaccurate" .... With Watson , it was one of the questions some who evaluated him pre draft had - For me it (inaccuracy) was public enemy #1 and was also the reason I preferred Mahomes - Dude is deadly accurate , he throws guys open allowing them to pick up all the yac that made that offense so lethal.


There's a difference between throwing a catchable ball in the general direction of a receiver and throwing a ball where only your guy can make a play on it , where your guy can go get it and make a play after.


Look , I'm not going to give the Homer version of things , the dude's a rookie QB in his first pre-season action .... We expect him to make some mistakes and have things to work on. His accuracy is the #1 issue right now cause I think he did a fairly solid job in the other aspects of the game , reading defenses , making adjustments , not making bad plays worse.

It aint time to crown his ass.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
O'Brien will see things, both good and bad, that 76Texan doesn't see. The play by play analysis comes off as nitpicking, especially when you don't take into account what the other 10 players on offense and 11 players on defense are doing.

I think as a fan, there are some things we can read into Watson's performance. Did he look poised? Did his tools look sufficient? Did he show good judgement? I would say yes on all accounts. In Watson's first professional game, he looks more than ready for his second. I'd still like to see him in a series with the 1st team to see how he handles that. I also would like to see Belichick show Watson some wrinkles next week.
With Watson, I had stated my view, that he has a much smaller chance of being a bust (and the easiest way to become one, in his case, is an injury - which was the reason I mentioned RG III.)
Shanahan did try to play to RG III's strength, but it certainly looks like he overdid it. So, for those who strongly believe that it's better for Watson to play close to the way he played in college, I simply submit that I do not share the idea.

Watson is the anti-Osweiler.
I like his quick, compact delivery and quick decision making. I had mentioned a few times that, if anything, I like for him to play "slower".
If he did, I believe he would have been the first QB drafted, not Trubisky.
Some people think this QB draft is not talented; I didn't share that opinion.
I've stated a few times that there are at least 8 QBs in this draft that I would take over Osweiler (as a prospect.)
And Watson is up there in the top half. I'm certainly not Texian, nor steelb.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Just to moderate a little here... I feel like everyone is feeling pretty similar about Watson. 76 is simple pointing out, what BoB will in practice - the things he could have handled better. He is a rookie, he doesn't have to be perfect in his first preseason game. Now they have gametape, they see a lot of good things and Promise, and they have seen things he could have done better. Missed an open guy here, took off too fast there, overthrew his receiver on another play.

Still a pretty good first outing, just not perfect. I like what I have seen, and I can't wait to see, if he can correct his mistakes...


Pretty much my thoughts exactly. I get the feeling that there are two sides and no middle in this argument ..


He aint the second coming .... and its not time to cut him.


He did some good and some not so good but didn't compound that not so good into worse. There's a lot to like and some things to work on ... it'll be a multi-year process.

Some seem to make any criticism into "so and so hates Watson" .... that's not the case. Its just making an honest observation.
 
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Jadmakaveli

Rookie
Pretty much my thoughts exactly. I get the feeling that there are two sides and no middle in this argument ..


He aint the second coming .... and its not time to cut him.


He did some good and some not so good but didn't compound that not so good into worse. There's a lot to like and some things to work on ... it'll be a multi-year process.

Some seem to make any criticism into "so and so hates Watson" .... that's not the case. Its just making an honest observation.
Really more so to do with how people come off.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Very much so. Without seeing what he saw down the field it's impossible to say. But it's not a stretch to say that our first group of WRs could struggle to get open against Carolina's first group of DBs. Bracket Hopkins and the rest of the unit isn't very scary.

When Carolina's second group came out the ball seemed like it came out faster.
bah007, for all the criticism that O'Brien has taken for not being "innovative" and not willing to try different approaches, did you notice he put in a formation of 4 wideouts and 2 RB off the line.
 

BYDS

Waterboy
Pretty much my thoughts exactly. I get the feeling that there are two sides and no middle in this argument ..


He aint the second coming .... and its not time to cut him.


He did some good and some not so good but didn't compound that not so good into worse. There's a lot to like and some things to work on ... it'll be a multi-year process.

Some seem to make any criticism into "so and so hates Watson" .... that's not the case. Its just making an honest observation.
It will not be a mulit year process. He either get it and has it or he doesn't. Yes he needs to learn the players and play book better but he has the instincts and the ability. If he is not starting by the 6th game then he was a waste of a pick OR BOB is an idiot. The vast majority of QB's either have it or the are gone in a few years. You do not take multi years to get better, never happened never will. He will learn nothing sitting behind Savage who is a good backup QB and nothing more.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
It will not be a mulit year process. He either get it and has it or he doesn't. Yes he needs to learn the players and play book better but he has the instincts and the ability. If he is not starting by the 6th game then he was a waste of a pick OR BOB is an idiot. The vast majority of QB's either have it or the are gone in a few years. You do not take multi years to get better, never happened never will. He will learn nothing sitting behind Savage who is a good backup QB and nothing more.

It will be a multi year process - He will be better next year than this and the following year than next ....
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
It will not be a mulit year process. He either get it and has it or he doesn't. Yes he needs to learn the players and play book better but he has the instincts and the ability. If he is not starting by the 6th game then he was a waste of a pick OR BOB is an idiot. The vast majority of QB's either have it or the are gone in a few years. You do not take multi years to get better, never happened never will. He will learn nothing sitting behind Savage who is a good backup QB and nothing more.
You're entitled to your opinion, but in mine this is a very narrow minded, short term simplistic view. You give absolutely no credence to either Watson, Savage or OB and other coaches. And not a multi year process? Please tell me how Peyton Manning was as good as a rookie as he ever would be. Same with Brady, Rodgers, Montana, Young and every other QB ever to play the game
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
In general, O'Brien agrees with me on the QBs' assessments.
I don't take anything any of these people say in the media at face value. While it's most likely true that O'Brien believes there are a lot of things to correct, it doesn't mean O'Brien believes Watson is not ready to start.

If O'Brien pulls all the starters when Watson goes into the game, I'll take that to mean they are not preparing Watson to start week 1.

But if Hopkins or Fido are in the game, I'm taking that to mean week 1 is their target.

Their actions say more than their words. If they were truly taking their time with Watson, Weeden would be 2nd on the depth chart.
 


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