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Houston Texans 2017 1st round pick, Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson

Got to love this site, at least 3 mods see a post and have no issue with it. Then another comes along and deletes it under “personal attack”, which by the way I very carefully worded the posts so they would not be personal attacks. Meanwhile others on here just get to post and spout out whatever they want. Bunch of BS.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
333333
Got to love this site, at least 3 mods see a post and have no issue with it. Then another comes along and deletes it under “personal attack”, which by the way I very carefully worded the posts so they would not be personal attacks. Meanwhile others on here just get to post and spout out whatever they want. Bunch of BS.
TTMB, gotta love it!
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Excellent find. This is the way winning organizations functions. A GM found a QB he thought would fit with HC's offense and then got the HC onboard with drafting the QB. Once the QB was drafted, the HC displayed the creativity and flexibility to implement concepts and plays from the QBs college scheme into his own offense. Somehow, too many fans have fallen for the nonsense on Kirby and think that for a HC to be successful, the HC have to have their selected QB, their own GM and control of everything from jocks to Joes.

Many people watch Mahomes and act like it was a no brainer to move up to select him. If you look at all of the draft profiles, there were several red flags that Mahomes might be a boom or bust prospect. The criticism of Mahomes included inconsistent mechanics, coming from a spread offense, limited experience reading defenses, and forcing passes. He was far from a sure thing. It appears it has worked out for all parties. Mahomes has a group of WRs who run 4.3 forties, a top 5 TE and a HC who is a great teacher and one of the best offensive minds in NFL history.

Kudos to the Veach, Reid and Mahomes. That's the way team collaboration is supposed to work.
I dunno about that …. Many of us had Mahomes as not only the #1 QB in that draft put as close as they come to a sure thing. Several of us here on TT were in that camp …. along with many others around the league and in the media.

I know I was ….

I also saw the warts on Watson pre draft - reading half a field , lack of anticipatory throws , questionable accuracy and never having to throw into tight windows as he had superior talent around him.

All you have to do is go check the draft section...

Now that's not to say a team can't win with Watson , he has a lot of tools to work with but he's going to need the right scheme and the right pieces around him. I really think the scheme is the biggest part of that equation …. keeping Watson from being his own worst enemy is the key & OB hasn't been able to do that , rather he contributes to it further by asking him to stand in the pocket.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
I'm far more Pro-Watson after his first three seasons than I am in regards to O'Brien after his first six seasons.

OB doesn't just make the same "single" mistake after six seasons but continues to make the same "multiple" mistakes he's made since season one straight thru season six. He must be self-evaluating in denial b/c I just don't understand the lack of growth.

I really hope OB hands Kelly the keys to the offense and gets out of the way.....this way we can truly gauge Kelly's feel for the game and ability to make adjustments on the fly without OB trying to get his 2 cents in during the game.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Reid makes the final call on personnel decisions.
Did you read the link? The point being made is Veach identified Mahomes as a perfect fit for Reid's offense.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2873422-patrick-mahomes-was-greatest-player-chiefs-gm-ever-scouted-says-andy-reid

"One day in the spring of 2016—after the third of [Alex] Smith’s five years as starter—Reid walked down to the scouting area and saw co-director of player personnel Brett Veach studying some tape. 'I'm watching our next quarterback,' Veach told Reid. It was tape of Mahomes as a Texas Tech sophomore. Reid watched the strong arm and command and mobility of Mahomes for five or 10 minutes. 'Coach,' Veach said, 'I can only imagine what he’d do in this offense.'

"Veach would text highlights of Mahomes to Reid’s phone in the fall. 'At one point that December,' Veach said, 'I remember Coach calling me into his office and showing me a Kiper/McShay mock first round. He said, "Your guy's not even in the first round!" They didn't have Patrick in the round. I just said, "Coach, it's perfect! Don't worry. You don't want him on these lists now. It sets up perfect for us.
Plenty of teams are regretting not seeing what Veach saw in time to draft him in 2017."
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Did you read the link? The point being made is Veach identified Mahomes as a perfect fit for Reid's offense.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2873422-patrick-mahomes-was-greatest-player-chiefs-gm-ever-scouted-says-andy-reid

"One day in the spring of 2016—after the third of [Alex] Smith’s five years as starter—Reid walked down to the scouting area and saw co-director of player personnel Brett Veach studying some tape. 'I'm watching our next quarterback,' Veach told Reid. It was tape of Mahomes as a Texas Tech sophomore. Reid watched the strong arm and command and mobility of Mahomes for five or 10 minutes. 'Coach,' Veach said, 'I can only imagine what he’d do in this offense.'

"Veach would text highlights of Mahomes to Reid’s phone in the fall. 'At one point that December,' Veach said, 'I remember Coach calling me into his office and showing me a Kiper/McShay mock first round. He said, "Your guy's not even in the first round!" They didn't have Patrick in the round. I just said, "Coach, it's perfect! Don't worry. You don't want him on these lists now. It sets up perfect for us.
Plenty of teams are regretting not seeing what Veach saw in time to draft him in 2017."
Yes Veatch found Mahomes, it wasn't hard to find him playing well at Texas Tech.

What was untrue about my post? Reid does make the final call on personnel.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
This applies to both Cobb and Fuller as well.
I’m going to respectfully disagree on Fuller. Fuller has injury issues and he will drop some balls, but he has zero problem getting open. I’m a ND fan and I’ve watched most, if not all, of his games going back to his college days. The thing that always struck me was the fact that he could get open despite the fact everyone in the stadium knew they wanted to get him the ball.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
I’m going to respectfully disagree on Fuller. Fuller has injury issues and he will drop some balls, but he has zero problem getting open. I’m a ND fan and I’ve watched most, if not all, of his games going back to his college days. The thing that always struck me was the fact that he could get open despite the fact everyone in the stadium knew they wanted to get him the ball.
The problem is him not getting open, his problem is staying on the field the whole season. Good thing we got rid of the one receiver that could. We can’t have that here.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
The problem is him not getting open, his problem is staying on the field the whole season. Good thing we got rid of the one receiver that could. We can’t have that here.
The quote I replied stated that Fuller would have issues getting open, that’s what I was replying to. In my first sentence I said he had injury issues
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I’m going to respectfully disagree on Fuller. Fuller has injury issues and he will drop some balls, but he has zero problem getting open. I’m a ND fan and I’ve watched most, if not all, of his games going back to his college days. The thing that always struck me was the fact that he could get open despite the fact everyone in the stadium knew they wanted to get him the ball.

I’m a Fuller fan too. My thing is he wasn’t getting open like that in his last few games. I know the injuries played a big part in that as well as the scheme. But against stout defenders he struggled to get open.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
We’re going into the season with a #3 wr in Cobb, a decent 2 in Stills and Fuller who could have issues with his health again. Then we’re expecting a rookie to come in and produce in an offense that takes 3 years to learn. It’s going to be an exciting season.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
We’re going into the season with a #3 wr in Cobb, a decent 2 in Stills and Fuller who could have issues with his health again. Then we’re expecting a rookie to come in and produce in an offense that takes 3 years to learn. It’s going to be an exciting season.
Sounds like the perfect opportunity to start involving our TE's and RB's in to the passing game more. We have two pass catching running backs in the Johnson&Johnson duo and a TE group that should be up to the challenge.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
Great so OB will sign DW to a reasonable team-friendly contract then trade him to NE for a bag of chips (to go with the ham sandwich he got for Hop).

Nothing would surprise me anymore - and I'm not a BOB hater, per se - but definitely agree he hasn't done enough to earn this amount of 'WTF?'
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
It's only from the mind of a Gene Sapakoff, but it is a good read.

To: Houston Texans management
From: Deshaun Watson, two-time NFL Pro Bowl quarterback, Clemson national champion, two-time Heisman Trophy finalist
Re: Recent developments and other disturbing stuff

Being too nice is a mixed bag.
It works out great — a tribute to my family, my upbringing, all of my mentors — when I can inspire others as the quarterback leader of an upstart NFL team by donating my first NFL game check to Houston stadium workers impacted by Hurricane Harvey.
It’s not so good, however, when the people who run a pro sports organization take advantage of someone’s good nature and “team guy” reputation by continually making bonehead roster moves harmful to the stability of the franchise.


The universally panned, hopelessly lopsided trade of DeAndre Hopkins to the Arizona Cardinals on Monday was the last straw. While I shall continue to give full devotion to winning while in Houston, it’s as clear as the view of the Gulf of Mexico from Galveston that it’s no longer a good idea for a 24-year-old to sign a long-term deal to remain with the Texans.
Trading me ASAP is the best thing for my career, my family, for NFL fans that need all the capable healthy quarterbacks they can get. Getting Houston to the playoffs the last two seasons of my three-year NFL career has been miraculous, experts agree. I have taken many hits along the way (too many, people say) and was willing to sacrifice for victories.
You know of my value without Fantasy Football stats that show I was No. 4 among quarterbacks for both the 2018 and 2019 seasons. But we have two chances to make the playoffs in 2021: slim and none. And slim is shopping online for a house in Scottsdale, ideally something with a big pool and cool cactus landscaping.


Why not Emmitt Smith?
Forget that “Nuk” Hopkins, like me, played at Clemson. Or that he’s the single most valuable wide receiver in the NFL. Or even that he was my only reliable weapon in the Texans’ offense. It’s the trade details. When I first heard about it, I thought it was a prank. Hopkins and a 2020 fourth-round pick for running back David Johnson, a 2020 second-round pick and a 2021 fourth-round pick? David Johnson? Sweetheart of a guy, probably.

But he hasn’t been good since 2016, back when I was at Clemson. Why didn’t we just try to coax Emmitt Smith or Jerome Bettis out of retirement? Hopkins, on the other hand, is an early Christmas present for Arizona quarterback Kyler Murray and Cardinals fans. If we were going to trade Hopkins, we had to get a first-round pick in return, as the Vikings essentially did Monday in sending Stefon Diggs, a receiver not nearly as good as Hopkins, to Buffalo.


Jadeveon Clowney, too
Some people made fun of my Clemson head coach Dabo Swinney when, as we were on the way to a national championship victory over Alabama, he compared me to the great Michael Jordan. You know, the “Space Jam” star who was also a pretty good basketball player? Remember, I never said that. But not as many people were laughing when the Texans with a mediocre roster won the AFC South in 2018 and 2019. As for Swinney’s MJ comparison, the lost point was the full love and commitment a head coach was showing for a quarterback. I have been in Texans head coach Bill O’Brien’s corner; I expressed support when he was under heavy fire in January after Kansas City beat us, 51-31, in a playoff game we led 24-0.

But what kind of coach, general manager or owner lets a star player like Hopkins get away? Or gets so little in return?
I saw on ESPN’s “Get Up!” that former NFL quarterback Dan Orlovsky said O’Brien as a head coach has Bill Belichick’s power but Marvin Lewis’ record. That’s not a good combination.
The Texans let ace pass rusher Jadeveon Clowney get away to Seattle last year. He’s a proud South Carolina Gamecock and I’m a proud Clemson Tiger but we sure could have used him chasing Patrick Mahomes around in that playoff game. Meanwhile, one of our AFC South Division rivals made what looks like a brilliant move Monday: the Indianapolis Colts traded a first-round pick to the San Francisco 49ers for DeForest Buckner, one of the best defensive tackles in football. It’s time for the Texans to double-down here on trading Clemson guys. If they were bright enough to get a second-rate running back and a second-round pick for DeAndre Hopkins, they can probably get a late first-round pick and some used weight room equipment in exchange for me. Then maybe they can use that pick to draft a nicer guy.


Sincerely,
A concerned quarterback

 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Am I the only person who doesn't think Watson would be successful in New England?
In New England.....I don't think Josh McDaniels would pigeon toe Watson into running the offense Brady was running. I believe Josh McDaniels to be far more progressive than OB and he would modify his offense to work with Watson's skill set. In the end, Watson would be entering a winning culture, much like the one he enjoyed at Clemson, and would con tinue their winning ways.

On a side note, those that think Watson was never going to be better than what they viewed as failure to grow as an NFL QB here in Houston should hope he never has success with another organization. If he does, that's a straight-up nut shot to OB.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
In New England.....I don't think Josh McDaniels would pigeon toe Watson into running the offense Brady was running. I believe Josh McDaniels to be far more progressive than OB and he would modify his offense to work with Watson's skill set. In the end, Watson would be entering a winning culture, much like the one he enjoyed at Clemson, and would con tinue their winning ways.

On a side note, those that think Watson was never going to be better than what they viewed as failure to grow as an NFL QB here in Houston should hope he never has success with another organization. If he does, that's a straight-up nut shot to OB.
I could care less about BOB.

I'm not worried about DW4 having success elsewhere.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
I could care less about BOB.

I'm not worried about DW4 having success elsewhere.
If the team ships Watson out of Houston and he suddenly enjoys the success many predicted he would have......that would be a thunderous nut shot to O'Brien. He ships off his franchise QB b/c he cannot work with him. That becomes an OB issue and less and less a Watson issue.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
If the team ships Watson out of Houston and he suddenly enjoys the success many predicted he would have......that would be a thunderous nut shot to O'Brien. He ships off his franchise QB b/c he cannot work with him. That becomes an OB issue and less and less a Watson issue.
Not so much a nut shot on O'Brien, more an indictment of the Texans owners for not pushing for a change. You would be hard pressed to find any supporters of O'Brien despite what many on this board try to make there appear to be. Most hate him. Some realize it is simply our reality until Cal decides enough is enough.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If the team ships Watson out of Houston and he suddenly enjoys the success many predicted he would have......that would be a thunderous nut shot to O'Brien. He ships off his franchise QB b/c he cannot work with him. That becomes an OB issue and less and less a Watson issue.
And if DW4 doesn't enjoy the success many predicted what does that say about BOB?
 


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