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Houston Texans 2017 1st round pick, Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson

steelbtexan

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Why do we have to tell you over and over again on who Obrien hand picks in the draft. Why we have to continually post videos of what O’Brien the horse has said over and over again. Savage was his guy who he groomed for 4 years. You yourself is on record stating how Savage improved during those years and was excited for him being named the starter.
Savage was a 4th rd flier. They developed him and hoped his processing skills would catch up with his physical gifts. (Kinda like what we're hoping happens with DW4.) It didn't happen with Savage and you never really know until there are live game situations. I'm just happy BOB replaced Os with Savage and he lead the Texans to a victory against the Jags that helped the Texans get in the playoffs.

So you're going to hold a failed 4th rd QB pick for not developing on BOB? How many 4th rd QB's become starters vs fail in the NFL? Did you hold RS to the same standard when it came to failed 4th rd picks, of which Savage was one of his failed 4th rd picks.

I was never excited about Savage being the starter. I wanted him to take the beating behind the porous OL that RS saddled the team with, so that Savage would take the beating and DW4 would stay healthy (We know how that turned out) and not beginning his career shell shocked.

Speaking of repeating posts, why do I have to keep repeating different versions of this post.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Why do we have to tell you over and over again on who Obrien hand picks in the draft. Why we have to continually post videos of what O’Brien the horse has said over and over again. Savage was his guy who he groomed for 4 years. You yourself is on record stating how Savage improved during those years and was excited for him being named the starter.
For the record, i was a Savage fan & I thought he had a pretty good shot to become something as i liked what i saw from him in his little bit of time he got to play prior to 2017. I held out hope that we'd gotten a steal in the 4th. That obviously went out the window 9/10/2017. Having said that, To say that Savage was BoB's "handpicked" guy is being a little disingenious.

He was a guy that was likely targeted by Smith & BoB in the 4th round so yes, he was literally "handpicked"......& yes BoB kept him on the roster longer than he probably deserved.... .but he was still just a 4th rounder. And you have to figure that if BoB really thought Savage was his qb of the future

A. he likely would've gotten his shot well before 2017.
B. They wouldn't have went out & got 2 different QB's in consecutive years after drafting him (Oz in 2016, DW4 in 2017)

As Steelb says, he was a 4th round flier & based on what happened after he was drafted, there's no reason to believe BoB thought he was anything more. I'm sure there was hope that he could be his starter, but that hope was no more than what you would hope for any player when you draft them.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Of course it takes more than a QB to win a SB. However do you notice how the great ones tend to win SB's? Look at the HOF as a guide.
Let' see how the great ones win SBs while O'Brien has been coach:
1. Mahomes (2019). Has Reid a HOF coach with one of the best TEs (Kelce), best deep threat (Hill) and one of the best pass blocking OL
2. Brady (2018): Has Belichick a HOF coach with one of the best slot WRs (Edelman), TEs (Gronk), top 10 defense and OL
3. Foles (2017): Has a creative offensive coach in Pederson with one of the best TEs (Ertz) and OL
5. Brady (2016): See #3, but Amendola replacing an injured Gronk and a top 10 defense.
6. Manning (2015): Has Kubiak, Wade (HOF) and one of the best defenses in the NFL
7. Wilson (2014): Has an offense tailored to his skillset with one of the best RBs (Lynch) and #1 ranked defense

Manning won a Super Bowl by throwing for 141 yards. Brady lost one by 10 points while throwing for 505 yards. It seems to me the great ones tend to win SB's by getting significant contributions from other players and their coaches. It's a team sport.

One thing that jumps out about Super Bowl winning QBs, They are coached by great HCs with good to great defenses and multiple players who are top 5 to 10 at their positions. When you look at the Texans, can you honestly say Watson throwing with accuracy and anticipation overcomes the advantages these SB winning QBs have on their team?

Do you understand why posters take your over simplification and singular focus on Watson as the reason to win championships as a repetitive and flawed opinion?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Let' see how the great ones win SBs while O'Brien has been coach:
1. Mahomes (2019). Has Reid a HOF coach with one of the best TEs (Kelce), best deep threat (Hill) and one of the best pass blocking OL
2. Brady (2018): Has Belichick a HOF coach with one of the best slot WRs (Edelman), TEs (Gronk), top 10 defense and OL
3. Foles (2017): Has a creative offensive coach in Pederson with one of the best TEs (Ertz) and OL
5. Brady (2016): See #3, but Amendola replacing an injured Gronk and a top 10 defense.
6. Manning (2015): Has Kubiak, Wade (HOF) and one of the best defenses in the NFL
7. Wilson (2014): Has an offense tailored to his skillset with one of the best RBs (Lynch) and #1 ranked defense

Manning won a Super Bowl by throwing for 141 yards. Brady lost one by 10 points while throwing for 505 yards. It seems to me the great ones tend to win SB's by getting significant contributions from other players and their coaches. It's a team sport.

One thing that jumps out about Super Bowl winning QBs, They are coached by great HCs with good to great defenses and multiple players who are top 5 to 10 at their positions. When you look at the Texans, can you honestly say Watson throwing with accuracy and anticipation overcomes the advantages these SB winning QBs have on their team?

Do you understand why posters take your over simplification and singular focus on Watson as the reason to win championships as a repetitive and flawed opinion?
Oh, I get what you're saying.

BTW comparing DW4 to Brady/Manning/Mahomes is laughable. Hopefully DW4 improves to their level under Kelly.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Earl dude is not going to see it your way, as you can see from his response. The only part that actually caught his attention was the comparison. In which might I add wasn’t a comparison at all.
 
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thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
And where did I say to do that? TK you are very familiar with my mock drafts and offseason trade scenarios.
You know I quoted batboy right? A-B conversation dude.

True, but TK was saying DW4 was as good as Mahomes and that's not even close to a true statement.
I don't believe that's what I said. I think their styles are similar. I don't believe one can say Watson is not an O'Brien type QB, then say Mahomes is.

I can believe O'Brien preferred Mahomes to Watson but I don't think Reid would have been too upset if he had to "settle" for Watson, so I don't see why O'Brien would be.

I think we'd be talking about Watson winning a Super Bowl in his third year if he were in KC & getting someone else to call plays if Mahomes were here.
 

steelbtexan

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You know I quoted batboy right? A-B conversation dude.



I don't believe that's what I said. I think their styles are similar. I don't believe one can say Watson is not an O'Brien type QB, then say Mahomes is.

I can believe O'Brien preferred Mahomes to Watson but I don't think Reid would have been too upset if he had to "settle" for Watson, so I don't see why O'Brien would be.

I think we'd be talking about Watson winning a Super Bowl in his third year if he were in KC & getting someone else to call plays if Mahomes were here.
We do know who Reid preferred since he traded up and picked Mahomes over DW4. (Wisely)

The rest is purely speculation.
 
He plays a very similar style to Patrick Mahomes. IMHO, the only difference is in making the decision to take over a game. Watson waits too long. Mahomes doesn't.

Mahomes is not the prototypical 6'5" pocket passer we believe O'Brien is looking for.

Watson would have done very well with a play caller who knows how to settle a QB down & help him get in a groove.
It’s not so much about being a pocket passer as it is the accuracy. Pocket passer is used because they tend to be more accurate than other styles of QB simple because they do just stand there and focus on putting the ball through a tire.

I agree with you that Watson’s style is more like Mahomes but he suffers from the draw back of that style in that he can hit a target but not the bullseye of that target. Mahomes is that ultra rare, in fact I think he is the only one, QB that can move like a dual threat and target like a pocket passer.

All that being said I do think that if your system need a Mahomes level QB to work than there is a problem.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Oh, I get what you're saying.

BTW comparing DW4 to Brady/Manning/Mahomes is laughable. Hopefully DW4 improves to their level under Kelly.
You are the one who said, "However do you notice how the great ones tend to win SB's? Look at the HOF as a guide". I never compared Watson to any QBs. I answered your question about how great QBs are winning Super Bowls.

Based on this response, your're not interested in a honest conversation. You want to be a troll. After 35000 posts, you still can't post a hyperlink or video. Maybe we should be asking the question, which one will happen first. Watson winning a Super Bowl or @steelbtexan being able to post a video.

See. It doesn't take much effort or creativity to be a troll.
:shades:
 
Man I don’t know why you even cheer for this team. Every darn year you find fault in this team, especially when it’s the opposite blank. So why do you put yourself in so much grief. The Chiefs are the future, so they will love for another bandwagon fan to hop onto their ship.
Whoa whoa whoa, you say that after praising guys like Uncle Rico? He has done nothing but find fault with this team since I got here. In fact several people on this board that you have celebrated for their posts have done nothing but be negative simply because they hate OB and everything he does.

That’s their right and more power to them but let’s not start accusing others of being nothing but negative when 90% of this board is nothing but negative these days.
 

steelbtexan

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Oh, I get what you're saying.

BTW comparing DW4 to Brady/Manning/Mahomes is laughable. Hopefully DW4 improves to their level under Kelly.
Unlike this Earl if you would like

But DW4 shouldn't ever be mentioned as an all time great with the way he played at the end of last season. He wasn't even avg.
 

steelbtexan

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It’s not so much about being a pocket passer as it is the accuracy. Pocket passer is used because they tend to be more accurate than other styles of QB simple because they do just stand there and focus on putting the ball through a tire.

I agree with you that Watson’s style is more like Mahomes but he suffers from the draw back of that style in that he can hit a target but not the bullseye of that target. Mahomes is that ultra rare, in fact I think he is the only one, QB that can move like a dual threat and target like a pocket passer.

All that being said I do think that if your system need a Mahomes level QB to work than there is a problem.
Rodgers can do these things.

Look at the last few QB's that have won SB's, what's their greatest quality? Accuracy

BTW, before everybody starts dogging on Foles, he was pinpoint accurate in those playoffs.
 

steelbtexan

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You are the one who said, "However do you notice how the great ones tend to win SB's? Look at the HOF as a guide". I never compared Watson to any QBs. I answered your question about how great QBs are winning Super Bowls.

Based on this response, your're not interested in a honest conversation. You want to be a troll. After 35000 posts, you still can't post a hyperlink or video. Maybe we should be asking the question, which one will happen first. Watson winning a Super Bowl or @steelbtexan being able to post a video.

See. It doesn't take much effort or creativity to be a troll.
:shades:
Neither,

But nice try in trying to make me look bad.

If I only cared what others think then you might have been onto something. BTW, you're the 1 trolling me, I was just responding with a football take.

If you want to take this to a personal level we could do this. But I would rather do more productive things.

Back to the draft thread where different ideas are embraced.
 
Rodgers can do these things.

Look at the last few QB's that have won SB's, what's their greatest quality? Accuracy

BTW, before everybody starts dogging on Foles, he was pinpoint accurate in those playoffs.
Rogers can yes but not the level of Mahomes. Rogers was a far better runner and mover than say Brady but teams never really feared his legs like they do a typical dual threat like Watson.

Thing about Mahomes is defenses have to guard WRs like he is a pocket passer but then they have to guard him like he is a dual threat. There are only so many players on the defense and you can’t devote 2-3 just for Mahomes.

It’s why the best way teams have found to beat the Chiefs is to keep Mahomes off the field like the Pats and Texans did.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Rogers can yes but not the level of Mahomes. Rogers was a far better runner and mover than say Brady but teams never really feared his legs like they do a typical dual threat like Watson.

Thing about Mahomes is defenses have to guard WRs like he is a pocket passer but then they have to guard him like he is a dual threat. There are only so many players on the defense and you can’t devote 2-3 just for Mahomes.

It’s why the best way teams have found to beat the Chiefs is to keep Mahomes off the field like the Pats and Texans did.
Good post. Out of curiosity? How would you compare Rodgers, Mahomes and Roethlisberger?
 
Good post. Out of curiosity? How would you compare Rodgers, Mahomes and Roethlisberger?
Well setting number of SB wins aside, though Mahomes has his own now, I’d say that just looking at them Rogers is the most accurate of the three, Big Ben can make a wider range of schemes work and Mahomes is sort of a combo of the other two.

Rogers is as laser accurate as a non-turret QB can be. He also has the ability to make sure it goes to the right target. No one has a better interception record than him. Trouble is other teams know that the key to stopping Rogers is not him but his receivers. You are not going to stop Rogers from making that pass but you can stop the guy the pass goes to once he makes it. Add to that Rogers can move in the back field very well and make the pocket move with him but he’s not going to win games on his legs. You give Rogers a Hopkins or Hill type target and it’s lights out.

Big Ben is direction I see the classic pocket passer have to go to survive. That may sound weird since she himself has said he plays outside the pocket but in reality it’s more he makes wherever he is the pocket. The guy is so big and stout he practically dares defenses to come sack him and even when they try he can take the hit and still throw. The reason I say he can make more schemes work is because mostly he doesn’t need anything except a good target.

Mahomes is as I said a combo of the two. He can’t take a hit like Roethlisberger can but he can hit a target a little better and he’s not as accurate as Rogers but he seems to be able to throw better under pressure and after getting hit. Also, of course, there is the threat he may just take off running and even throw it while he’s running. Most QBs like Watson or Jackson that take off running commit themselves to the run and stop trying to throw it. Mahomes is still looking for that target half a second before he slides.

Key thing Mahomes has is that his team hasn’t fallen into the QB trap yet but they are about to. It will be interesting to see what the Chiefs look like once they pay Mahomes because no team has ever won a SB where the QB was 15% or more of the cap.
 

steelbtexan

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Well setting number of SB wins aside, though Mahomes has his own now, I’d say that just looking at them Rogers is the most accurate of the three, Big Ben can make a wider range of schemes work and Mahomes is sort of a combo of the other two.

Rogers is as laser accurate as a non-turret QB can be. He also has the ability to make sure it goes to the right target. No one has a better interception record than him. Trouble is other teams know that the key to stopping Rogers is not him but his receivers. You are not going to stop Rogers from making that pass but you can stop the guy the pass goes to once he makes it. Add to that Rogers can move in the back field very well and make the pocket move with him but he’s not going to win games on his legs. You give Rogers a Hopkins or Hill type target and it’s lights out.

Big Ben is direction I see the classic pocket passer have to go to survive. That may sound weird since she himself has said he plays outside the pocket but in reality it’s more he makes wherever he is the pocket. The guy is so big and stout he practically dares defenses to come sack him and even when they try he can take the hit and still throw. The reason I say he can make more schemes work is because mostly he doesn’t need anything except a good target.

Mahomes is as I said a combo of the two. He can’t take a hit like Roethlisberger can but he can hit a target a little better and he’s not as accurate as Rogers but he seems to be able to throw better under pressure and after getting hit. Also, of course, there is the threat he may just take off running and even throw it while he’s running. Most QBs like Watson or Jackson that take off running commit themselves to the run and stop trying to throw it. Mahomes is still looking for that target half a second before he slides.

Key thing Mahomes has is that his team hasn’t fallen into the QB trap yet but they are about to. It will be interesting to see what the Chiefs look like once they pay Mahomes because no team has ever won a SB where the QB was 15% or more of the cap.
Great analysis,

Mahomes is a truly special talent. They will be ok after they pay Mahomes. They drafted Hardeman as a Hill replacement if they have to cut one of their stars. The player they have to re-sign is Kelce. He's a walking mismatch. (Like Brady/Gronk)

They may have to let some of their defense/OL walk although Chris Jones/Fisher should be priorities.

Mahomes new contract is directly related to Reid letting Fuller walk in FA as an example.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Whoa whoa whoa, you say that after praising guys like Uncle Rico? He has done nothing but find fault with this team since I got here. In fact several people on this board that you have celebrated for their posts have done nothing but be negative simply because they hate OB and everything he does.

That’s their right and more power to them but let’s not start accusing others of being nothing but negative when 90% of this board is nothing but negative these days.

Dude I don’t praise anybody on here like that. And if you don’t like me disagreeing with Steels crap. Well that can be easily fixed on your end. The ignore function is readily available.
 

steelbtexan

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Dude I don’t praise anybody on here like that. And if you don’t like me disagreeing with Steels crap. Well that can be easily fixed on your end. The ignore function is readily available.
Somebody got their feelings hurt after having their crap called out.
 

steelbtexan

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So yeah not sure what you call that if not praise. I don't care how much you disagree with Steel, if you pay attention you'll see I disagree with him 90% of the time, but if we are going to call him out for being negative then there is alot of others, including me and you, that need to be called out to. Just because you agree with someone doesn't mean what they are saying isn't negative.

As far as the ignore function unlike a certain child trapped in an adult's body I can actually disagree with someone and not pretend like they don't exist. Rico is proud that he has 3/4 of the full time memebers of this board on ignore and that he only sees 3 posts or so and brags about it. Personally I enjoy it more when somone doesn't agree with what I'm saying because otherwise its just an echo chamber and that is why people can't have civil discussions any more. Just because we disagree doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong or vice versa.

There are three sides to every story, one person's side, another person's side and then the truth somewhere in between. People like Rico only see their side and everything else is wrong.
Great post
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
So yeah not sure what you call that if not praise. I don't care how much you disagree with Steel, if you pay attention you'll see I disagree with him 90% of the time, but if we are going to call him out for being negative then there is alot of others, including me and you, that need to be called out to. Just because you agree with someone doesn't mean what they are saying isn't negative.

As far as the ignore function unlike a certain child trapped in an adult's body I can actually disagree with someone and not pretend like they don't exist. Rico is proud that he has 3/4 of the full time memebers of this board on ignore and that he only sees 3 posts or so and brags about it. Personally I enjoy it more when somone doesn't agree with what I'm saying because otherwise its just an echo chamber and that is why people can't have civil discussions any more. Just because we disagree doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong or vice versa.

There are three sides to every story, one person's side, another person's side and then the truth somewhere in between. People like Rico only see their side and everything else is wrong.
So it’s ok for you to agree not praise but agree with that nonsense from Steel huh. Which is not a problem but don’t charge me up for agreeing with (not praise) Rico. That man is capable of speaking up for himself. You don’t see me charging you up whenever you’re in a heated exchange with him.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
So yeah not sure what you call that if not praise. I don't care how much you disagree with Steel, if you pay attention you'll see I disagree with him 90% of the time, but if we are going to call him out for being negative then there is alot of others, including me and you, that need to be called out to. Just because you agree with someone doesn't mean what they are saying isn't negative.

As far as the ignore function unlike a certain child trapped in an adult's body I can actually disagree with someone and not pretend like they don't exist. Rico is proud that he has 3/4 of the full time memebers of this board on ignore and that he only sees 3 posts or so and brags about it. Personally I enjoy it more when somone doesn't agree with what I'm saying because otherwise its just an echo chamber and that is why people can't have civil discussions any more. Just because we disagree doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong or vice versa.

There are three sides to every story, one person's side, another person's side and then the truth somewhere in between. People like Rico only see their side and everything else is wrong.
Most may not agree with posters' takes, but try to stay open-minded. Others insist on the echo chamber approach.

1583355738097.png
 
So it’s ok for you to agree not praise but agree with that nonsense from Steel huh. Which is not a problem but don’t charge me up for agreeing with (not praise) Rico. That man is capable of speaking up for himself. You don’t see me charging you up whenever you’re in a heated exchange with him.
Honestly not sure I fully understand what you are saying here. What I was calling praise is you saying “good stuff as usual” I don’t mind if you praise him but the entire point was you were calling Steel out for being negative all the time and saying he should go cheer for the Chiefs. Ok then why not call Rico our for being negative all the time and saying he should cheer for whoever? I’m just saying apply the same standards across the board.

I’m not saying a person has to just blindly praise everything the Texans do but there are some on here, and Rico is one, that hate everything the Texans do by default simply because it is OB doing it. Again if thats what they want to do cool, more power to them but then they should give others that have a different point of view the same respect.

I have no respect for a 5 year old that puts his fingers in his ears so he can’t hear anybody and then saying he won the argument. Like wise I have no respect, and in fact have them on ignore, an adult who does the adult version of it on a public forum.

I’m just not sure how anybody can respect what he does no matter what their view point on the Texans. It is literally a prime example of what is wrong with society today, this mindset of “I don’t agree with you so I’m going to pretend you don’t exist and only talk with people that agree with me. If by some chance I am forced to hear what you say or I temporarily take you off ignore I’m just going to mock you and act as if you are an idiot because you disagree with me. Afterwards I’ll put you back on ignore so I don’t have to see your reply.” It’s the mindset of a child that needs a trip behind the wood shed.
 
Cult O'Brien?

I thought I said 51-7 was reason enough for everybody to be fired. If that's a cult I must have lost my Websters.

Go back to your moms basement and worship your DW4 shrine.
I’m actually trying to think of any post from anybody since the Chiefs game that has had anything really good to say about OB. The closest I can think of is some, myself included, being happy he gave up play calling. If the best thing said about the job a person is doing is that you are happy they gave up that job......yeah.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Honestly not sure I fully understand what you are saying here. What I was calling praise is you saying “good stuff as usual” I don’t mind if you praise him but the entire point was you were calling Steel out for being negative all the time and saying he should go cheer for the Chiefs. Ok then why not call Rico our for being negative all the time and saying he should cheer for whoever? I’m just saying apply the same standards across the board.

I’m not saying a person has to just blindly praise everything the Texans do but there are some on here, and Rico is one, that hate everything the Texans do by default simply because it is OB doing it. Again if thats what they want to do cool, more power to them but then they should give others that have a different point of view the same respect.

I have no respect for a 5 year old that puts his fingers in his ears so he can’t hear anybody and then saying he won the argument. Like wise I have no respect, and in fact have them on ignore, an adult who does the adult version of it on a public forum.

I’m just not sure how anybody can respect what he does no matter what their view point on the Texans. It is literally a prime example of what is wrong with society today, this mindset of “I don’t agree with you so I’m going to pretend you don’t exist and only talk with people that agree with me. If by some chance I am forced to hear what you say or I temporarily take you off ignore I’m just going to mock you and act as if you are an idiot because you disagree with me. Afterwards I’ll put you back on ignore so I don’t have to see your reply.” It’s the mindset of a child that needs a trip behind the wood shed.


Yes he can be over the top just like Steel is when it comes to Watson or Rick Smith. But at least he post actual data to support his reasoning.

How can you respect someone calling Watson stupid. Basically saying the young man is too dumb to run a pro style offense.

Or someone who wished ill will on a player to either prove or validate their sideways position.


And for the record I’ve disagreed with Rico’s opinion/position towards RAC.
 

steelbtexan

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Yes he can be over the top just like Steel is when it comes to Watson or Rick Smith. But at least he post actual data to support his reasoning.

How can you respect someone calling Watson stupid. Basically saying the young man is too dumb to run a pro style offense.

Or someone who wished ill will on a player to either prove or validate their sideways position.


And for the record I’ve disagreed with Rico’s opinion/position towards RAC.
I did say I was wrong to call DW4 stupid, I said that with emotion after he had a bad game (The Carolina game I think.)

I never said I wanted him to get hurt. What I said was I would like for him to run the offense guys like UR want him to run so I could see the reaction of this MB and how they would blame BOB when DW4 got hurt. Yes, that would be very entertaining and like DB said the NFL is entertainment.

2 totally different things from how you're trying to portray me.
 
Yes he can be over the top just like Steel is when it comes to Watson or Rick Smith. But at least he post actual data to support his reasoning.

How can you respect someone calling Watson stupid. Basically saying the young man is too dumb to run a pro style offense.

Or someone who wished ill will on a player to either prove or validate their sideways position.


And for the record I’ve disagreed with Rico’s opinion/position towards RAC.
Same way I can respect most of the people that call OB everything under the sun. They have said WAY worse things about him. Hate to tell you this but Watson falls under the same rules as OB, he is a public figure therefore fair game.

People say OB is to stupid to do a lot of things despite evidence to the contrary. Again it comes back to just because you agree with someone’s viewpoint doesn’t mean what they are saying should be judged differently than someone you don’t agree with.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Same way I can respect most of the people that call OB everything under the sun. They have said WAY worse things about him. Hate to tell you this but Watson falls under the same rules as OB, he is a public figure therefore fair game.

People say OB is to stupid to do a lot of things despite evidence to the contrary. Again it comes back to just because you agree with someone’s viewpoint doesn’t mean what they are saying should be judged differently than someone you don’t agree with.

I haven’t read anybody post on here calling Obrien stupid like that.

Hey bud can you please follow/ practice what you preach. So quick to correct others but are doing the same exact thing.
 
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I haven’t read anybody post on here call Obrien stupid like that.

Hey bud can you please follow/ practice what you preach. So quick to correct others but are doing the same exact thing.
Again somebody talking about what I preach, I really wish I knew what exactly it was I was preaching so I knew what to follow / practice. As to what people say about OB, really, that’s what you are going with?

Seriously that has to be the weakest argument I’ve seen yet, “no one has called O’Brien stupid”. I mean if you haven’t seen that and worst I question how much attention you have paid to the posts on these forums. Hell its even in some people’s avatars and signatures. Can you imagine the up roar if someone made a sig that said “My names Deshaun and I play football” or replaced Watson’s head with a clown. Because people have done that and more with OB.

TB I like you man but you are really stretching here.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Same way I can respect most of the people that call OB everything under the sun. They have said WAY worse things about him. Hate to tell you this but Watson falls under the same rules as OB, he is a public figure therefore fair game.

People say OB is to stupid to do a lot of things despite evidence to the contrary.
Again it comes back to just because you agree with someone’s viewpoint doesn’t mean what they are saying should be judged differently than someone you don’t agree with.
I doubt anyone is saying Watson shouldn't be criticized. The majority of posters in this forum are aware of the history of black QBs in the NFL. We know some of the reasons why black QBs were not selected to play QB in the NFL. Those reasons ranged from underestimating their intelligence to flat out discrimination. It's why Moon had to play in the CFL. Fortunately, our country and the NFL has made significant progress. However, I don't ever recall hearing a coach couldn't get an NFL job because they were too stupid.

By all accounts, Watson is intelligent. We have various reports and videos demonstrating his intelligence and work ethic. You hear him break down plays in a room full of reporters, you see him on the sideline communicating with his coaches and teammates about the action on the field. Stupid would be the last word used to describe him.

Now don't get my wrong. He can make one or more dumb plays a game. But the kid is not too stupid that he cannot learn or improve. To see all the evidence to the kid's intelligence and to continuously question his intelligence in a more PC or polite manner, does not make it right or eliminate the historical context. At the end of the day, you're still calling him too stupid to run an NFL offense or too stupid to process what's happening on the field. When you look at the historical context, regardless if it was intentional or not, right or wrong, it will be judge differently from calling O'Brien stupid.

IMHO, it's not a matter of simply agreeing with someone's viewpoint or not. Everyone loves Ryan Fitzpatrick. He's a Harvard grad. By all accounts, he's very intelligent. Yet, he gets on a football and at the most critical points in a game, will throw some of the dumbest INTs. No one ever calls him stupid. As a rookie, Peyton Manning led the NFL in INTs. After his 4th season, he had thrown 81 INTs. Looking at his career, would anyone say, Manning couldn't read defenses or was stupid?

So, the internet has made us less civil. But words whether written or spoken matters. Don't be a troll and then try to play coy or naive.
 
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I doubt anyone is saying Watson shouldn't be criticized. The majority of posters in this forum are aware of the history of black QBs in the NFL. We know some of the reasons why black QBs were not selected to play QB in the NFL. Those reasons ranged from underestimating their intelligence to flat out discrimination. It's why Moon had to play in the CFL. Fortunately, our country and the NFL has made significant progress. However, I don't ever recall hearing a coach couldn't get an NFL job because they were too stupid.

By all accounts, Watson is intelligent. We have various reports and videos demonstrating his intelligence and work ethic. You hear him break down plays in a room full of reporters, you see him on the sideline communicating with his coaches and teammates about the action on the field. Stupid would be the last word used to describe him.

Now don't get my wrong. He can make one or more dumb plays a game. But the kid is not too stupid that he cannot learn or improve. To see all the evidence to the kid's intelligence and to continuously question his intelligence in a more PC or polite manner, does not make it right or eliminate the historical context. At the end of the day, you're still calling him too stupid to run an NFL offense or too stupid to process what's happening on the field. When you look at the historical context, regardless if it was intentional or not, right or wrong, it will be judge differently from calling O'Brien stupid.

IMHO, it's not a matter of simply agreeing with someone's viewpoint or not. Everyone loves Ryan Fitzpatrick. He's a Harvard grad. By all accounts, he's very intelligent. Yet, he gets on a football and at the most critical points in a game, will throw some of the dumbest INTs. No one ever calls him stupid. As a rookie, Peyton Manning led the NFL in INTs. After his 4th season, he had thrown 81 INTs. Looking at his career, would anyone say, Manning couldn't read defenses or was stupid?

So, the internet has made us less civil. But words whether written or spoken matters. Don't be a troll and then try to play coy or naive.
I don’t want to turn this into a political debate about white vs black. That kind of stuff should be in the no spin zone if anywhere on this site. All I’ll say is this, for true equality to exist you have to take the bad with the good. If saying things like Watson is stupid is off limits because he is black but it’s ok in regards to OB because he is white then that’s not equality.

Also don’t know if the bolded was directed at me but I’ve never played coy or naive. I just don’t believe in double standards no matter who they benefit.
 

Earl34

Veteran
I don’t want to turn this into a political debate about white vs black. That kind of stuff should be in the no spin zone if anywhere on this site. All I’ll say is this, for true equality to exist you have to take the bad with the good. If saying things like Watson is stupid is off limits because he is black but it’s ok in regards to OB because he is white then that’s not equality.

Also don’t know if the bolded was directed at me but I’ve never played coy or naive. I just don’t believe in double standards no matter who they benefit.
It was not directed at you. I don't want to make this political. It's one of the reasons I don't visit the no spin zone. I'm not saying it's off limits. However, if you call Watson stupid, be prepared for the criticism from people who find it ridiculous or offensive from a historical perspective. Same thing for the people who find it ridiculous or offensive to call a coach who graduated from an Ivy league college stupid.
 
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It was not directed at you. I don't want to make this political. It's one of the reasons I don't visit the no spin zone. I'm not saying it's off limits. However, if you call Watson stupid, be prepared for the criticism from people who find it ridiculous or offensive from a historical perspective. Same thing for the people who find it ridiculous or offensive to call a coach who graduated from an Ivy league college stupid.
I agree with this post. Wish more people could have a civil discourse about these kinds of topics, not really talking about this board or anyone on it, because that’s th3 only way true progress will be made.

Then we can call everybody stupid without issue. :kitten:
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I don’t want to turn this into a political debate about white vs black. That kind of stuff should be in the no spin zone if anywhere on this site. All I’ll say is this, for true equality to exist you have to take the bad with the good. If saying things like Watson is stupid is off limits because he is black but it’s ok in regards to OB because he is white then that’s not equality.

Also don’t know if the bolded was directed at me but I’ve never played coy or naive. I just don’t believe in double standards no matter who they benefit.
I dont view things through the prism of race and could care less about historical context. What I do care about is DW4's ability to learn from mistakes and correct them. So far he's not only not really learned from them because he hasn't changed what he's done all of his life and improved. He was better in yr 1 than in yr 3. Why do I hope he improves? Because he's going to be the Texans QB for another 5 yrs.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Why don't we all just start tomorrow March 5th Without calling anybody stupid or a assface or butt chin, racist or anything like that? Stop calling names.

I never addressed Bill O’Brien as butt chin or any of that stuff. I just think people shouldn’t be calling folks stupid either. Especially if they never met that individual in person or had a conversation with them.
 
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Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Rogers can yes but not the level of Mahomes. Rogers was a far better runner and mover than say Brady but teams never really feared his legs like they do a typical dual threat like Watson.

Thing about Mahomes is defenses have to guard WRs like he is a pocket passer but then they have to guard him like he is a dual threat. There are only so many players on the defense and you can’t devote 2-3 just for Mahomes.

It’s why the best way teams have found to beat the Chiefs is to keep Mahomes off the field like the Pats and Texans did.
A lot of that is scheme and Mahomes understanding when to get moving out of the pocket.
I've been harping on this subject for a year or more - That the Texans need to treat Watson in the same manner.

But apparently OB knows better.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Excellent find. This is the way winning organizations functions. A GM found a QB he thought would fit with HC's offense and then got the HC onboard with drafting the QB. Once the QB was drafted, the HC displayed the creativity and flexibility to implement concepts and plays from the QBs college scheme into his own offense. Somehow, too many fans have fallen for the nonsense on Kirby and think that for a HC to be successful, the HC have to have their selected QB, their own GM and control of everything from jocks to Joes.

Many people watch Mahomes and act like it was a no brainer to move up to select him. If you look at all of the draft profiles, there were several red flags that Mahomes might be a boom or bust prospect. The criticism of Mahomes included inconsistent mechanics, coming from a spread offense, limited experience reading defenses, and forcing passes. He was far from a sure thing. It appears it has worked out for all parties. Mahomes has a group of WRs who run 4.3 forties, a top 5 TE and a HC who is a great teacher and one of the best offensive minds in NFL history.

Kudos to Veach, Reid and Mahomes. That's the way team collaboration is supposed to work.
 
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Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Excellent find. This is the way winning organizations functions. A GM found a QB he thought would fit with HC's offense and then got the HC onboard with drafting the QB. Once the QB was drafted, the HC displayed the creativity and flexibility to implement concepts and plays from the QBs college scheme into his own offense. Somehow, too many fans have fallen for the nonsense on Kirby and think that for a HC to be successful, the HC have to have their selected QB, their own GM and control of everything from jocks to Joes.

Many people watch Mahomes and act like it was a no brainer to move up to select him. If you look at all of the draft profiles, there were several red flags that Mahomes might be a boom or bust prospect. The criticism of Mahomes included inconsistent mechanics, coming from a spread offense, limited experience reading defenses, and forcing passes. He was far from a sure thing. It appears it has worked out for all parties. Mahomes has a group of WRs who run 4.3 forties, a top 5 TE and a HC who is a great teacher and one of the best offensive minds in NFL history.

Kudos to the Veach, Reid and Mahomes. That's the way team collaboration is supposed to work.
Some players get lucky and are put in the perfect position. I agree great job all around. Note : Andy is not tasked to do everything.
 


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