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Houston Texans 2017 1st round pick, Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson

Earl34

Rookie
The teams that win championships have QB's that consistently can step up into the pocket and deliver an accurate throw. That will always remain the same even if QB's are running more RPO's these days.
Teams that win championships have more than a QB that can consistently step up in the pocket. What happened to complementary football? Name one playoff team with a worst defense than the Texans? How does consistently stepping up in the pocket and delivering an accurate throw prevents the Texans' DBs from giving a 10 yard cushion on 3rd and 5? How does it make the WRs run the correct routes?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
DW4 has the 4th best passer rating in the league.
You're a hard man to please.
This means BOB has done a good job of coaching around DW4's weaknesses. But until he becomes consistent throwing from the pocket there will be no championships. He can make some good throws or even games throwing from the pocket but is far to inconsistent.

Tell me after watching DW4 play the last month (Forget about BOB for a while) do you think that level of play can win a SB?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Teams that win championships have more than a QB that can consistently step up in the pocket. What happened to complementary football? Name one playoff team with a worst defense than the Texans? How does consistently stepping up in the pocket and delivering an accurate throw prevents the Texans' DBs from giving a 10 yard cushion on 3rd and 5? How does it make the WRs run the correct routes?
They aren't winning a SB this yr.

If DW4 improves and they add some talent this offseaon they may be a true contender next season. They are much closer to being a contender than at anytime since the franchises inception. IMHO
 

Texansphan

All Pro
This means BOB has done a good job of coaching around DW4's weaknesses. But until he becomes consistent throwing from the pocket there will be no championships. He can make some good throws or even games throwing from the pocket but is far to inconsistent.

Tell me after watching DW4 play the last month (Forget about BOB for a while) do you think that level of play can win a SB?
What I have been most disappointed with is the last in the league defensive ranking on 2nd, 3rd and 4th down completion percentages.
This has caused a huge swing in ToP thus keeping our offense off the field.
That MUST change or we most definitely wont be going anywhere.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
What I have been most disappointed with is the last in the league defensive ranking on 2nd, 3rd and 4th down completion percentages.
This has caused a huge swing in ToP thus keeping our offense off the field.
That MUST change or we most definitely wont be going anywhere.
Totally agree with this.

It may be time for a new DC.

You didn't answer my question about DW4's level of play over the last month.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Teams that win championships have more than a QB that can consistently step up in the pocket. What happened to complementary football? Name one playoff team with a worst defense than the Texans? How does consistently stepping up in the pocket and delivering an accurate throw prevents the Texans' DBs from giving a 10 yard cushion on 3rd and 5? How does it make the WRs run the correct routes?

Thank you
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I'm just glad we dont have to have this discussion anymore. We know who's calling the shots now and the Texans org is better off for it. This is the best on field product they've had since 2011 and it may even be better than 2011 if they can stay healthy and growth from the QB/young OL continues.
Nah, I think 2012 was the best product, especially not having to mortgage the future for it.

The Texans were 7th in both yards and allowed and in the same vicinity in points scored and allowed.

That was also the year I clamored for both Russell Wilson and Keenum (with Cousins as the alternate.)

And I'd rather have them trade up for Jeffrey and Sanu instead of Posey and K Martin.

It was still a good draft for the Texans, but just imagine those additional guys.

The main "problem" back then was Tom Brady at his prime, not Gary Kubiak and his system.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
This means BOB has done a good job of coaching around DW4's weaknesses. But until he becomes consistent throwing from the pocket there will be no championships. He can make some good throws or even games throwing from the pocket but is far to inconsistent.

Tell me after watching DW4 play the last month (Forget about BOB for a while) do you think that level of play can win a SB?
No, you cannot discount the HC, who's also responsible for the DC and the OC.
This team isn't going anywhere is all due to "just OK" O'Brien, who was less than OK in the last month of the season.
O'Brien game plan, play design and play calling sucks.
The defense sucks.

At least Kubiak can help elevate the QB play (along with the rest of the offense.)
The current Texans have ZERO identity.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The main "problem" back then was Tom Brady at his prime, not Gary Kubiak and his system.
Here was the main problem. This guy wasn't going to come close to being able hold his own and somewhat cancel out Brady's production. Everyone knew that when the chips were down, Schaub was gonna fold up. FYI, I feel the same way about James Harden & the Rockets.
mtt.jpg
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
No, you cannot discount the HC, who's also responsible for the DC and the OC.
This team isn't going anywhere is all due to "just OK" O'Brien, who was less than OK in the last month of the season.
O'Brien game plan, play design and play calling sucks.
The defense sucks.

At least Kubiak can help elevate the QB play (along with the rest of the offense.)
The current Texans have ZERO identity.
How'd Kubiak elevate Keenum's play? :corrosion: j/jk. I know that's your boy.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
No, you cannot discount the HC, who's also responsible for the DC and the OC.
This team isn't going anywhere is all due to "just OK" O'Brien, who was less than OK in the last month of the season.
O'Brien game plan, play design and play calling sucks.
The defense sucks.

At least Kubiak can help elevate the QB play (along with the rest of the offense.)
The current Texans have ZERO identity.

Like JB stated above, you have take dudes comment at face value. And I mean literally and figuratively. Lol or just know he hates Deshaun Watson period.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
No, you cannot discount the HC, who's also responsible for the DC and the OC.
This team isn't going anywhere is all due to "just OK" O'Brien, who was less than OK in the last month of the season.
O'Brien game plan, play design and play calling sucks.
The defense sucks.

At least Kubiak can help elevate the QB play (along with the rest of the offense.)
The current Texans have ZERO identity.
Wasnt it obvious even to the most casual fan that the offense was going to have to be the strength of the team going into the season? AFTER OBrien depleted the defense with his braindead Clowney deal, and mortgaged the future for Tunsil, it was a foregone conclusion. Funny though, that here we are with fans grumpy at RAC and the defense and saying he should be fired for not being able to turn grocery stock boys into pro bowlers. OBrien throws him reclamation projects with the "1st round" designation like that alone is enough for RAC to field a competent unit. All the while the offense struggles like it usually does. All the while OBrien still making the same dumb coaching decisions hes always made. Bulletproof and lacking accountability. Fans develop stockholm syndrome and feel the need to defend him. Insanity.

check out this sound bite (particularly at :58 seconds and beyond - but the initial commentary regarding Watson is interesting too):


im flabbergasted if this is true. So OBrien allows the offense to set up a gameplan, practice it and then AFTER he's done playing Junior GM for the week he has the nerve to modify what the team has worked on all week? At the 11th hour? Fking hell.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Here was the main problem. This guy wasn't going to come close to being able hold his own and somewhat cancel out Brady's production. Everyone knew that when the chips were down, Schaub was gonna fold up. FYI, I feel the same way about James Harden & the Rockets.
View attachment 5280
You conveniently left out the part where Casey dropped an easy TD early in the game and the Texans had to settle for a FG.
The Texans were still able to score 28 points.
It was the D that failed fantastically.
They did not do their part.
Schaub wasn't the problem in that playoff game even though he did throw an INT (great scheme by the Pats D that was lacking from the Texans' end.)
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
How'd Kubiak elevate Keenum's play? :corrosion: j/jk. I know that's your boy.
Keenum did OK under the circumstances his first year with Kubiak.
You've seen plenty of first-round QBs fall flat on their face or did very little, like Haskins, Golf, Lynch, Bortles, Trubisky, Manuel, weeden, sanchez, russell, quinn, leinart, lossman, carr, and on and on.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Wasnt it obvious even to the most casual fan that the offense was going to have to be the strength of the team going into the season? AFTER OBrien depleted the defense with his braindead Clowney deal, and mortgaged the future for Tunsil, it was a foregone conclusion. Funny though, that here we are with fans grumpy at RAC and the defense and saying he should be fired for not being able to turn grocery stock boys into pro bowlers. OBrien throws him reclamation projects with the "1st round" designation like that alone is enough for RAC to field a competent unit. All the while the offense struggles like it usually does. All the while OBrien still making the same dumb coaching decisions hes always made. Bulletproof and lacking accountability. Fans develop stockholm syndrome and feel the need to defend him. Insanity.

check out this sound bite (particularly at :58 seconds and beyond - but the initial commentary regarding Watson is interesting too):


im flabbergasted if this is true. So OBrien allows the offense to set up a gameplan, practice it and then AFTER he's done playing Junior GM for the week he has the nerve to modify what the team has worked on all week? At the 11th hour? Fking hell.
Wow are you serious. But you can best believe those few that gives O’Brien a pass, will continue to give him a pass. Imo this is completely on Cal. He gave this dude all the unwarranted control.

If true, this is why Watson and this offense is so inconsistent. Bill O’Brien micromanagement has always been an issue. Resting players has always been an issue. How do you expect continuity between Watson and his main receivers if they’re not practicing.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
You conveniently left out the part where Casey dropped an easy TD early in the game and the Texans had to settle for a FG.
The Texans were still able to score 28 points.
It was the D that failed fantastically.
They did not do their part.
Schaub wasn't the problem in that playoff game even though he did throw an INT (great scheme by the Pats D that was lacking from the Texans' end.)
Lol score was 13-24 when he tossed that pick.....Late in the 3rd....we had a good drive going, critical 3rd down...we had to have it to stay within 1 score.....yeah that was typical Schaub. It wasn't a matter of if he was gonna **** the bed, it was when when it came to that dude.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Wow are you serious. But you can best believe those few that gives O’Brien a pass, will continue to give him a pass. Imo this is completely on Cal. He gave this dude all the unwarranted control.

If true, this is why Watson and this offense is so inconsistent. Bill O’Brien micromanagement has always been an issue. Resting players has always been an issue. How do you expect continuity between Watson and his main receivers if they’re not practicing.
Confirmation bias at its finest. The assumption being that the supposed changes he's making at the last minute are bad & are causing issues with the continuity of the offense.......Even though Nuk, Stills & especially WFV not being "big practicers" doesn't appear to have affected DW4's chemistry with any of those guys at all.

Just as easily as you guys assume the supposed changes at the last minute are all leading to bad outcomes with the offense, the flip side is they could also lead to relatively good ones......Reality is probably somewhere in-between regardless though, we'll never know the other side of it unless DW4 or some other offensive guy says it b/c guys like Zierlein will never play up that aspect b/c its not good radio.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
Totally agree with this.

It may be time for a new DC.

You didn't answer my question about DW4's level of play over the last month.
Over the last month his play has dropped off.
That may just be a temporary loss of form just like batsmen in baseball or it may be something to do with an injury or something different the offensive genius is doing differently.
I am not about to give up on him just yet and I base that on his obvious talent - he has demonstrated he has the ability to be a winner so it may just be a passing anomaly.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
Wasnt it obvious even to the most casual fan that the offense was going to have to be the strength of the team going into the season? AFTER OBrien depleted the defense with his braindead Clowney deal, and mortgaged the future for Tunsil, it was a foregone conclusion. Funny though, that here we are with fans grumpy at RAC and the defense and saying he should be fired for not being able to turn grocery stock boys into pro bowlers. OBrien throws him reclamation projects with the "1st round" designation like that alone is enough for RAC to field a competent unit. All the while the offense struggles like it usually does. All the while OBrien still making the same dumb coaching decisions hes always made. Bulletproof and lacking accountability. Fans develop stockholm syndrome and feel the need to defend him. Insanity.

check out this sound bite (particularly at :58 seconds and beyond - but the initial commentary regarding Watson is interesting too):


im flabbergasted if this is true. So OBrien allows the offense to set up a gameplan, practice it and then AFTER he's done playing Junior GM for the week he has the nerve to modify what the team has worked on all week? At the 11th hour? Fking hell.
Sounds like no one likes practice, even OB. :trapstar:
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Lol score was 13-24 when he tossed that pick.....Late in the 3rd....we had a good drive going, critical 3rd down...we had to have it to stay within 1 score.....yeah that was typical Schaub. It wasn't a matter of if he was gonna **** the bed, it was when when it came to that dude.
Look at the scores in all the divisional rounds.

Teams that score 28 points in regular time win the majority of the time.

Schaub and the offense did enough to win the game.
It's the D that shiz the bed.

Brady played 40 games in the playoffs and his team scored more than 28 points just 17 times.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Look at the scores in all the divisional rounds.

Teams that score 28 points in regular time win the majority of the time.

Schaub and the offense did enough to win the game.
It's the D that shiz the bed.

Brady played 40 games in the playoffs and his team scored more than 28 points just 17 times.
The other 14 or so pts came largely when the game was over dude...& that still doesn’t negate Schaub’s penchant for making the big mistake at the worst possible times.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
The other 14 or so pts came largely when the game was over dude...& that still doesn’t negate Schaub’s penchant for making the big mistake at the worst possible times.
It was 28-38 with more than 5 minutes left.
It could have been 32-38.

Even if the Texans only had 24 points (with Casey not dropping the easy TD pass but before the last Texans' TD) with nearly 12 minutes to go, I bet any Texans fan would have taken it before the game started.

You're demonizing the wrong culprit here.
It was the D that put the team in a big hole.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Confirmation bias at its finest. The assumption being that the supposed changes he's making at the last minute are bad & are causing issues with the continuity of the offense.......Even though Nuk, Stills & especially WFV not being "big practicers" doesn't appear to have affected DW4's chemistry with any of those guys at all.

Just as easily as you guys assume the supposed changes at the last minute are all leading to bad outcomes with the offense, the flip side is they could also lead to relatively good ones......Reality is probably somewhere in-between regardless though, we'll never know the other side of it unless DW4 or some other offensive guy says it b/c guys like Zierlein will never play up that aspect b/c its not good radio.

I will say this again, when credit is do I'm one of the first to give it. This **** doesn't have anything to do with being biased or unbiased. We're talking about 6 freaking year's of the same ole same ole. It doesn't matter how much talent we have or don't have, Obrien's TEAM produces the same results. So off course click bait will seem to be spot on in both directions. Plus this isn't the first time I've heard this.

But I have a few question for you.

Why in week 16 we have recievers running the wrong routes?

Why are linemen still blowing there blocking assignments?

Why does this team come out lethargic and uninspired, especially on offense every freaking game?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Over the last month his play has dropped off.
That may just be a temporary loss of form just like batsmen in baseball or it may be something to do with an injury or something different the offensive genius is doing differently.
I am not about to give up on him just yet and I base that on his obvious talent - he has demonstrated he has the ability to be a winner so it may just be a passing anomaly.
I think his left ankle, which is the one he puts his weight on is hurt much worse than the Texans org is letting us know and is the root of the issue. Hopefully the week off helps
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
No, you cannot discount the HC, who's also responsible for the DC and the OC.
This team isn't going anywhere is all due to "just OK" O'Brien, who was less than OK in the last month of the season.
O'Brien game plan, play design and play calling sucks.
The defense sucks.

At least Kubiak can help elevate the QB play (along with the rest of the offense.)
The current Texans have ZERO identity.
Yet he won 2 out of the 3 games he had to win this month and had a bye week in week 17.

What does Kubiak have to do with any of this? What QB did he really make better?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Nah, I think 2012 was the best product, especially not having to mortgage the future for it.

The Texans were 7th in both yards and allowed and in the same vicinity in points scored and allowed.

That was also the year I clamored for both Russell Wilson and Keenum (with Cousins as the alternate.)

And I'd rather have them trade up for Jeffrey and Sanu instead of Posey and K Martin.

It was still a good draft for the Texans, but just imagine those additional guys.

The main "problem" back then was Tom Brady at his prime, not Gary Kubiak and his system.
What could have been with a competent GM
 

powda

Rooting for Captain Tripps
Nah, I think 2012 was the best product, especially not having to mortgage the future for it.

The Texans were 7th in both yards and allowed and in the same vicinity in points scored and allowed.

That was also the year I clamored for both Russell Wilson and Keenum (with Cousins as the alternate.)

And I'd rather have them trade up for Jeffrey and Sanu instead of Posey and K Martin.

It was still a good draft for the Texans, but just imagine those additional guys.

The main "problem" back then was Tom Brady at his prime, not Gary Kubiak and his system.

I think theres a few misconceptions about the Kubiak days.

There are 3 parts of that era:

A. Kubiak building offense and defense not good enough. (See frank bush.)

B. Small window. Very small window.

C. Schaub hurt. Play calling grows stale and wade's defense loses its luster.

I like kubiak's offense -still. Ricky ruined dozens of mid round picks and topped it off with stupid contracts. I dont think Brady and the elites were the reason we didnt get there. We weren't good enough to lose to them later in the playoffs.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I will say this again, when credit is do I'm one of the first to give it. This **** doesn't have anything to do with being biased or unbiased. We're talking about 6 freaking year's of the same ole same ole. It doesn't matter how much talent we have or don't have, Obrien's TEAM produces the same results. So off course click bait will seem to be spot on in both directions. Plus this isn't the first time I've heard this.

But I have a few question for you.

Why in week 16 we have recievers running the wrong routes?

Why are linemen still blowing there blocking assignments?

Why does this team come out lethargic and uninspired, especially on offense every freaking game?
WTF? Why is it that the city of Houston hasn’t at least been to 1 SB through 2 franchises? Why did we take Olajuwon over Jordan? At the end of the day there are objective explanations for all these decisions and things...... but if your belief is already geared towards 1 explanation, then you’re going to look for things that validate that belief...

This was the case for years after Schaub with the “ all we need is a qb to really compete” crowd......and the same tired ass confirmation bias arguments are now being used with the “All We need is a competent HC to compete” crowd.

It’s always something...and we’re always just this or that away from really breaking thru. Things rarely if ever are that simple...especially with as complicated and interwoven of a game football is.

Point is,

It’s is confirmation bias.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
WTF? Why is it that the city of Houston hasn’t at least been to 1 SB through 2 franchises? Why did we take Olajuwon over Jordan? At the end of the day there are objective explanations for all these decisions and things...... but if your belief is already geared towards 1 explanation, then you’re going to look for things that validate that belief...

This was the case for years after Schaub with the “ all we need is a qb to really compete” crowd......and the same tired ass confirmation bias arguments are now being used with the “All We need is a competent HC to compete” crowd.

It’s always something...and we’re always just this or that away from really breaking thru. Things rarely if ever are that simple...especially with as complicated and interwoven of a game football is.

Point is,

It’s is confirmation bias.

Well because we're just not that lucky.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
WTF? Why is it that the city of Houston hasn’t at least been to 1 SB through 2 franchises? Why did we take Olajuwon over Jordan? At the end of the day there are objective explanations for all these decisions and things...... but if your belief is already geared towards 1 explanation, then you’re going to look for things that validate that belief...

This was the case for years after Schaub with the “ all we need is a qb to really compete” crowd......and the same tired ass confirmation bias arguments are now being used with the “All We need is a competent HC to compete” crowd.

It’s always something...and we’re always just this or that away from really breaking thru. Things rarely if ever are that simple...especially with as complicated and interwoven of a game football is.

Point is,

It’s is confirmation bias.
Well because we're just not that lucky.
Unlike the current Astros......the Oilers nor Texans have had an Owner or GM that had a real gameplan in regards to building a long term winner. It's always looked like a bad or ill-advised effort.
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
Yet he won 2 out of the 3 games he had to win this month and had a bye week in week 17.

What does Kubiak have to do with any of this? What QB did he really make better?
Yeah, but his team looked like crap agaisnt an inferior team, the Broncos.

O'Brien is a mediocre HC/OC, you said so yourself.

Kubiak is better with his offfense, and the proof is in black and white.
Ditto with the QBs, I really don't need to point them out, do I?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I think theres a few misconceptions about the Kubiak days.

There are 3 parts of that era:

A. Kubiak building offense and defense not good enough. (See frank bush.)

B. Small window. Very small window.

C. Schaub hurt. Play calling grows stale and wade's defense loses its luster.

I like kubiak's offense -still. Ricky ruined dozens of mid round picks and topped it off with stupid contracts. I dont think Brady and the elites were the reason we didnt get there. We weren't good enough to lose to them later in the playoffs.
That 2007 draft was just awful.

Sure, it was a given that the Pats have more talents, but they did get beat by the opportunistic Giants.

The formula against them has always been to contain Brady, and for that, you need a good defense.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Tell me more about the T
Yeah, but his team looked like crap agaisnt an inferior team, the Broncos.

O'Brien is a mediocre HC/OC, you said so yourself.

Kubiak is better with his offfense, and the proof is in black and white.
Ditto with the QBs, I really don't need to point them out, do I?
Yep, and the 49ers lost to the Falcons. This is the NFL. it happens.

What QB did Kubiak really improve?
 


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