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Graded the O-line from my game tape

S

sensei

Practice Squad
I haven't posted on this board in over a year, although I read it everyday. I just had an experience I have never had before. I felt compelled to share it.

I just graded out my tape of the offensive lines 1st unit.

I will start with the positives.

1. I thought Victor Riley played a very good game. Better than I thought he was capable of.

2. Chester Pitts had a VERY GOOD game.

3. I am NOT a Mckinney fan by any strech of the imagination but he had a pretty good game. Again I was pleasantly surprised.

4. Wade did not have a very good game. I thought he was ALOT better player than he showed. I was very disappointed in his play.

5. I have no idea of how many tapes I have graded but it is a bunch. In all that time I HAVE NEVER SEEN A PLAYER GRADE AS POORLY AS SETH WAND GRADED OUT IN THIS GAME. Even on the positive plays, the plays away from him, or any other situation, he got his tail beat badly. They made him look like a high school player, playing against a Pro. I fail to see all this potential we read about. I cannot find even one single positive play he made.


If he is our 5th or 6th best lineman, WE HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM.

I also noticed on some of the negative plays, we were just outnumbered in the area the ball was going to. I'm hoping this was because of a pre-determined play being run, rather than an inability to recognize the need to check off. I think this explains a couple of situations where we looked so bad. (Such as the goal line run attempts.)

I also looked closely at the defense and overall was pleased. The only negatives I saw was the play of Peek and Babin. I really expected more out of both of them. We have a lot riding on their play and it was to say the least INADAQUATE. They both need to step up big time.

All in all I think we are just a few good players away from being a very good team. I hope we have them already and they step up and show themselves.

Anyway, these are my personal observations. I hope they give you some food for thought.

sensei
 
I enjoyed reading yours thoughts on the individual performance of team
members and appreciate your time and efforts. Thanks for the post.
 
Babin and Peek were almost invisible out there against the Raiders. I don't know if it was just the gameplan or did they just play that badly the other day.
 
Great analysis! :thumbup

5. I have no idea of how many tapes I have graded but it is a bunch. In all that time I HAVE NEVER SEEN A PLAYER GRADE AS POORLY AS SETH WAND GRADED OUT IN THIS GAME. Even on the positive plays, the plays away from him, or any other situation, he got his tail beat badly. They made him look like a high school player, playing against a Pro. I fail to see all this potential we read about. I cannot find even one single positive play he made.

If he is our 5th or 6th best limeman, WE HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM.
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I agree with you. I never want to be chicken little, so I've kept quiet during the pre-season. But the OL is the one area that truly worries me. Our offense will remain pretty much one dimensional if we fail to control the trenches. SW is supposed to be a major part of that equation, but I just haven't seen the true potential. Glad I'm not the only one.
 
Double Barrel said:
I agree with you. I never want to be chicken little, so I've kept quiet during the pre-season.
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That is sad. This board has gone down hill because people feel scared to post their opinions because they feel bullied. I've noticed this more and more where people get called names by the moderators and yet can't do the same. Sad. No wonder this board has a slow user decline. Lighten up folks, everyone has their opinion.
 
Given that the transition between tackle and guard should be easier with the zone blocking scheme, Wand had still only practiced at right guard for four days. So he made some mistakes. There's a lot of people who would have a problem at a completely new job if they were thrown to the wolves four days after taking the job. Give him at least a week to practice with the first team, if not a couple to get a handle on things. Then, maybe the evaluation would be a little bit more comprehensive.
 
SESupergenius said:
That is sad. This board has gone down hill because people feel scared to post their opinions because they feel bullied. I've noticed this more and more where people get called names by the moderators and yet can't do the same. Sad. No wonder this board has a slow user decline. Lighten up folks, everyone has their opinion.
Click to expand...

It's not the mods, but rather my own perspective during a football season. I try to be an optimist (against my nature) during pre-season, because it's a "time of learning".

Come week 1, though, and my realist nature comes out and I'll call it like I see it.

I think many players are playing not to get hurt in pre-season (especially known starters), so it's tough to really get a bead on how they will fair in the regular season.

I appreciate your concern, though. :ok:
 
At the game Saturday night, I paid attention to individal players for a series of plays each.

I observed no remarkable improvement in Babin. He seemed to have better positioning while covering the passing zones. His rushing moves/run coverage looked exactly like last year. I'm very discouraged so far.

P-Buc is either a rookie or is not very good, again....so far.

Tony Hollings looks exactly the same as two years ago. I was really hoping he would be the secret steal of the draft that year.

Greenwood, nothing spectacular at all. No better that Foreman. Hopefully he's still learning the system.
 
Texans86 said:
Given that the transition between tackle and guard should be easier with the zone blocking scheme, Wand had still only practiced at right guard for four days. So he made some mistakes. There's a lot of people who would have a problem at a completely new job if they were thrown to the wolves four days after taking the job. Give him at least a week to practice with the first team, if not a couple to get a handle on things. Then, maybe the evaluation would be a little bit more comprehensive.
Click to expand...

I don't presume to know the intricacies of the Texans offense. I don't know all their schemes. If I did I would be one of their coaches. I have been involved with football for a long time, though. I'm not anything special but I'm not blind nor stupid either.

I'm not talking about missed assignments or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm talking about missing your block entirely. Whiffing at your man as he goes by. Getting knocked flat on your behind by a LINEBACKER. Being pushed all over the field. Just plain being MANHANDLED. These things have NOTHING to do with being in a new position or scheme.

Of course I have been known to be wrong.

sensei
 
Wand isn't used to shorter, more powerful guys delivering blows to his solar plexus. He needs to learn how to keep those guys out from under his shoulder pads otherwise he will fare no better inside than out.
 
P-Buch missing the tackle on an early play was very discouraging. I re-winded that play over and over, trying to figure out how and the heck he did that. He had absolutley no angle to make an interception (NONE WHATSOEVER) and it appeared he was diving with a hand for the ball, instead of just form tackling the guy. That por judgment gave up a big play on the Raiders scoring drive.

Now I can see what some critics are saying about how P-Buch makes too many questionable moves. Later on in the game, he began to starighten up and form tackle like he's supposed to.

I dunno, maybe he'll learn from D-Rob about how to know when to go for the pick and when to give up the catch to the receiver and just make a solid tackle.
 
Seth needs a magic Wand to ever be a legit starter. I watched him carefully on about 8 plays last week. On pass blocking, he was non existant. We better pray that Weigert gets back and healthy, because we have zippo at RG after him. Weary might be a better choice. Wand might not even make the team next year. He isn't all that and a bag of chips. He isn't even a bag of moldy Doritos. Good run blocker, that can't pass block doesn't make it in this league.

OTOH, I thought Riley more than held his own out there. It's really no surprise that this supposed epic training camp battle was almost over before it started.

Yet another 2nd or 3rd round Casserly bust....
 
aj. said:
Wand isn't used to shorter, more powerful guys delivering blows to his solar plexus. He needs to learn how to keep those guys out from under his shoulder pads otherwise he will fare no better inside than out.
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I've likely been Wand's biggest supporter on this board. Last season, outside of Freeney (which I blamed Palmer for), I never saw Wand get beat badly. He often gave ground which led to sacks when Carr was flushed back. I was disapointed last year with Pitts' play, along with McKinney and Weigert. I thought Wand was the least of our problems going in to this season.

That being said, he should be embarrassed and ashamed of that ridiculous performance on Saturday. I don't care if he's never played guard in his life. If he was blind-folded it wouldn't have been an adequate excuse for his play. As was said earlier, it wasn't missed assignments. LBs were tossing him aside like a ragdoll. He was pouting and hanging his head. I have an idea, how about getting a little angry and hitting someone hard. What he was doing was barely a freakin' handshake. And, I'm talking about run blocking, not even his pass blocking, which was poor as well.

I woud cut him to make an example of him for the rest of the team if he doesn't come out against Dallas and beat the heck out of whoever he's blocking. Man, it was the lack of effort and agressiveness that was just outrageous. Surely he got his butt reamed in film study today. Let's hope he responds like a man and not like an 8 year old against Dallas.
 
God God this sounds pretty bad, I get to watch the tape tonight so I will be keeping my eye on Wand. The guy is being shifted around like a rag doll just by the coaching staff alone.
 
I dont see why you all are complaining... I am able to win at Madden now with the Texans (barely) is newbie mode.. So we are MAKING Progress... rofl
:texflag:
 
He was ... hanging his head
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I saw this in camp at the public practices and commented on it a couple of times - not sure if it was here or elsewhere. It struck me as unusual since I hadn't seen him like that before. His body language is telling and his lack of confidence is showing.
 
Dime said:
I dont see why you all are complaining... I am able to win at Madden now with the Texans (barely) is newbie mode.. So we are MAKING Progress... rofl
:texflag:
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I like the Texans in newbie mode. My entire offensive line is giong to the pro bowl. Actually almost the entire offense is going to the pro bowl. If the team played that well in real life, we'll go 16-0 and win the super bowl.
 
Texans86 said:
I like the Texans in newbie mode. My entire offensive line is giong to the pro bowl. Actually almost the entire offense is going to the pro bowl. If the team played that well in real life, we'll go 16-0 and win the super bowl.
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I just picked up several free agents Terry and Dixon on All-madden mode and my offensive line is all going to the probowl.

Oh and I cut seth wand
 
jppaul said:
I just picked up several free agents Terry and Dixon on All-madden mode and my offensive line is all going to the probowl.

Oh and I cut seth wand
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You cut Seth Wand? He's my best lineman. I guess that tells you how accurate the game is.
 
aj. said:
I saw this in camp at the public practices and commented on it a couple of times - not sure if it was here or elsewhere. It struck me as unusual since I hadn't seen him like that before. His body language is telling and his lack of confidence is showing.
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Wand kind of reminds me of an OT we had in High School. This guy was huge compared to the rest of us, but he just wasn't a very motivated person. He was TOO nice. The coaches couldn't figure out how to motivate him, and for every mistake he made his head would drop a little lower. It wasn't until a group of players started pushing him around, calling him names, and even slapping his face a couple times, before a game, that he finally got pissed off and had his best game. I think our RB had 328 yards rushing in that game.

Maybe someone needs to take Wand out and slap him around a little bit and tell him that if he doesn't get his **** together, He is going to find himself looking for a REAL job. Maybe it will piss him off enough to motivate him.
 
Some guys are hardend by the fire and others just melt. Seth may be the latter. I am still pulling for him, but I am afraid the clock is running out on him.
 
As I was watching the Raiders game Saturday, I had to ask myself this question. Why is this waste of space (Seth Wand) still in a Texans jersey? I know that the cuts arent to be made till later, but putting this guy in the game to block for Carr is just asking for Carr to get injured. I would rather see Travis Johnson play RG until Weigert is healthy! The only good thing I can say about Wand playing RG is that at least Carr can see the defender before he takes the hit! :brickwall

I have tried to be optimistic about the OL this year, and I think they can be average (as long as Riley pans out). From what I have seen so far, Riley has done well. I am personally sick of seeing Wand now after the showing he had Saturday. I hope Weigert comes back soon and the rest of our line stays healty. If I were Carr, I would hold out and refuse to play against the Cowboys unless they replace Wand with ANYONE at the RG spot.
 
My guess is that if the season starts with Weigert unavailable we'll end up with some combination of Washington/McKinney at C and RG. I guess Milford Brown gets his shot at RG this week.
 
Brown was the RG when we plowed the Jaguars last year for over 200 yards...I think he probably wins the job behind Weigert.
 
I wasn't even going to post in this thread, since it was so far out in left field. Maybe I should start by saying I graded game tape to make it sound official.

Cut him to make an example of him? Wand is one of the 5 best lineman on the team at his position. Even if the assumption is made that Riley is better at LT, Wand is a better LT than McKinney is a center. Just because he couldn't play guard well after a handful of practices doesn't define him as a player.

Cut Wand - great. Then if Riley can't get the job done or gets hurt we can all scream about lack of depth.

This "epic battle for left tackle" never occurred in camp anyway - it seems all Riley had to do to practice with the first team was to make weight. The coaches inserted him as starter almost as soon as camp opened. The coaches are certainly within their right to do that, that's their job. However, their history hasn't proven much to me about how well they do that job.

I still think the team is making a mistake not developing the younger player and going with a player who in his previous 7 years never played left tackle. Maybe our coaches have seen something other teams have been missing? Maybe. Maybe not. I think the season will tell the story. Can you see Riley blocking Freeney one on one with constant 7 step drops like Wand had to do last year? Victor just doesn't have the lateral speed. It could get ugly.

Some of the improvement in the line so far this year has been in the revamped offense. For instance, if Carr hadn't been rolling out on the first touchdown pass against the Raiders and had taken a normal drop, he would have been plastered, since Riley didn't touch his guy coming around the corner. If that had been Wand he'd have been crucified for that.

Look at Carr's quote earlier about this year the line being better because he doesn't have 2 or 3 guys in his face every play. Wand gets to be the scapegoat for last year's play (somebody needs to grade THOSE tapes), but the LT isn't responsible for 2 or 3 guys.

About his attitude and "what did he do in the off-season". Well, during the off-season from what I've heard Wand stays in Houston and works out according to the Texan program at the Texan facility. I don't think you can say that about a lot of the guys.

Second, let's look at his attitude. A lot of people don't like their interpretation of his body language. What I see is a player who is trying to do all the things the coaches ask him to do, even as they use him as their whipping boy. If he really had a poor attitude, he'd develop one of those "sore hamstrings" so many people in the league get during training camp.

I think a fair test would be to see how Wand does with the new offense, and I still think he'll get his chance this year. Writing him off doesn't make much sense. He should be given the same opportunity to show his improvement from year 2 to year 3 that Pitts had. Remember, in camp Wand was going up against our best pass rusher (Peek) for most team drills, Riley was usually against the second team.

Wand may yet prove he is our best LT. The revamped offense, an occasional double team of premier rushers (as the Patriots do to Freeney very successfully), and Wand's speed and length could be a nice combination if given the chance.
 
Davis37 said:
Why is this waste of space (Seth Wand) still in a Texans jersey?
Click to expand...
I got a question. What happened to Wand between last season and TC right
here and now that is responsible for his performance to regress as it has, because its difficult for me to understand that he could have
remained our regular LT last year for most of our season if he was playing as poorly then as he apparently is playing this summer in TC ?
I certainly don't want to delve into the young mans personal affairs, but maybe something has happened in that area, maybe even a family situation.
Divorce or perhaps death of a parent ? Yea Freeny made him look foolish last
year, but as we know Freeny made All-Pros look foolish last year (for reference, see Colts vs. Ravens, i.e. Ravens Pro Bowl LT Ogden). We all know Wand had some good games last year, else he would have been yanked very
early in the season. Maybe just the demotion after Rileys arrival was a real tramatic thing for him that so devasted his confidance ? I dunno....its a real
mystery to me that there seems to be such a dramtic regression in his performace in such a short period of time ?
 
nunusguy said:
I got a question. What happened to Wand between last season and TC right
here and now that is responsible for his performance to regress as it has, because its difficult for me to understand that he could have
remained our regular LT last year for most of our season if he was playing as poorly then as he apparently is playing this summer in TC ?
Click to expand...

Excellent question.

Do you really think his performance has regressed, or is everyone focusing on the negative because it makes the news? The forum is like a mob mentality, once the negativism starts it's pile-on time. He may be playing at the same level (at tackle) but Riley is a little better to the coaches.

The coaches, for whatever reason (and maybe they had a good one), put Riley in as starting left tackle before enough camp time had passed to do a serious evaluation of on field performance. Still, they obviously haven't lost all confidence in Wand or they wouldn't have tried him at a position he's never played before to see if he could be their second option there.

Many posters see the highlights on the news, or read an "I graded the line" post and think it's the full story. This is especially dangerous in judging O-lineman, because when they do their job well it is usually unrecognized. They get camera time for giving up sacks or getting a penalty.
 
I vaguely recall comments from last year when the coachig staff said that by starting Wand they were making an effort to get the "best 5 linemen on the field." They do like the guy. And as one of his critics around here, I do want to draw the line at cutting him. That's a waste of good depth at LT. If it's true that it takes a young tackle a season or two to learn the position, then whatever the team's invested in him to date makes him a very valuable backup there, even if they've (wisely) decided he shouldn't be starting at LT.

Didn't Weigert's injury and the Wand RG experiment just show us what can happen when there's a serious dropoff between 1st string and the backup at an O-line position?

That's an extreme example, of course. One preseason game in the book is WAAAAAY too soon to call Wand a total failure at RG, because he'd never played there before. BUT even though he's definitely not the Texans' best backup for Weigert, I'd argue that he's still the best and most experienced backup for Riley, though.

Side note: the Dolphins, who may have the worst offensive line in football this year, just benched one of their offensive linemen and moved two others to new starting position--with the season less than a month away!! That group makes the Texans line look like Hall of Fame material. Thank goodness the Texans aren't in THAT much trouble.
 
Vinny said:
Wand's not in danger of getting cut. I wouldn't worry about that.
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Most of us know that; I just didn't want that post to stand unchallenged.
 
Wand is a natural Left Tackle not a Right Guard. seeme like the staff is trying to get in his head to make him excell, though I'm not sure its working as they had expected :confused:
 
Everyone has to remember the most important part, preseason is for evaluating what you have. They know what Wand can do at LT, that's why Riley is getting snaps there. The RG experiment - just like someone else said getting the 5 best linemen on the field. Lets say Weigert's injury keeps him from playing for a few weeks, would it not be in our best interest to have Wand, who has started at LT, play RG; and Riley, who last played LT in college, play LT to evaluate them?
 
thats fine, then why not try Riley at RG since he has 7 years of NFL experience at RT & move Wand back to LT?
 
Maybe you'll see it this game. Point is they have what 16 games worth of footage of Wand playing LT in our scheme, and 1 preseason game of Riley.
 
Runner said:
Excellent question.

Do you really think his performance has regressed, or is everyone focusing on the negative because it makes the news? The forum is like a mob mentality, once the negativism starts it's pile-on time. He may be playing at the same level (at tackle) but Riley is a little better to the coaches.
Click to expand...

As I stated before, up until Saturday night I was one of his biggest supporters. Just watch him in the first half. It was such a pathetic display. No intensity. No agressiveness. He was getting tossed around by men 80lbs lighter. He didn't make one effective block the entire first half. As a matter of a fact, the man he attempted to block essentially made almost every play through the first two series. I suggested that if he doesn't respond then he should be cut as an example to the team that this organization doesn't coddle babies and quitters- effort always should be there.
 
Its preseason. I would imagine its kind of hard to get up for a game that doesnt mean anything. Especially when you already have a roster slot. Obviously if we had better options, they would be in camp right now.
 
beerlover said:
thats fine, then why not try Riley at RG since he has 7 years of NFL experience at RT & move Wand back to LT?
Click to expand...

I'd have thought that would be a better overall line.
 
Runner said:
Do you really think his performance has regressed, or is everyone focusing on the negative because it makes the news?
Click to expand...
I think that's a fair point and some of us, including this poster, may be contributing to negatism by unduly emphasizeing that aspect of his performance. As many have said, he for a fact played really miserably Saturday night, but perhaps most of that should be discounted because he
was playing at a position that was very foreign to him.
But I to want to get the 5 best OL out there on 9/11, and I especially want
to get the #1 LT out there - afterall, that's still covering DC's backside more
than any other position.
Let me refrase my language and say I wonder what may have caused the perceived setback in Wands progress towards being our starting LT ? And
maybe its nothing more than a perception ?
 
dalemurphy said:
As I stated before, up until Saturday night I was one of his biggest supporters. Just watch him in the first half. It was such a pathetic display. No intensity. No agressiveness. He was getting tossed around by men 80lbs lighter. He didn't make one effective block the entire first half. As a matter of a fact, the man he attempted to block essentially made almost every play through the first two series. I suggested that if he doesn't respond then he should be cut as an example to the team that this organization doesn't coddle babies and quitters- effort always should be there.
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Babies and quitters - I don't think so. Wand's work ethic and willingness to learn are two of the reasons the coaches like him and why they tried him at guard. Maybe he was "thinking" about guard play and not just reacting? Or isn't that negative enough?

I know you were one of his supporters. Don't give up on him because of a pre-season game at a new position with very limited practice.
 
Wand's work ethic and willingness to learn are two of the reasons the coaches like him and why they tried him at guard
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Did the coaches tell you that, or did you read that somewhere, or is that just your perception?
 
aj. said:
Did the coaches tell you that, or did you read that somewhere, or is that just your perception?
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C'mon AJ don't be reticent, what's Wand's status with the Texans' coaching staff, inquiring minds want to know ?
 
"Willingness to learn" and "work ethic" sounds like Caperisms...

I haven't kept up with the behind the scenes stuff on Seth (or even what came out in media reports for that matter) and I was just curious where that came from. All I know is that he was our starting left tackle last season and now he's not, having been replaced by a guy who is obviously a massive drive blocker but who appears to have limited footspeed and backpedal capability.

And before I forget, let me amend my prior misspeak by saying on the record: "Based on a few direct observations, it's my perception that Wand has lost confidence in himself." (but of course I could be wrong).

I feel like I've been to a peer mediation session. Now Suzy, tell Arnold how you really felt when he called you a *****.

I have to go now...gotta go find somebody to hug.
 
aj. said:
Did the coaches tell you that, or did you read that somewhere, or is that just your perception?
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Perception of course. Based on things coaches and (ugh) reporters have said in published articles about Wand in the years he's been here. I can't find the article now, but there were some Caperisms last week about how fast, strong, and intellignet Wand is.

I offer further evidence of my perception by the way the coach held his head when talking to Wand on the sideline of the last game. I also took his general body posture into account. Also, I couldn't see the coaches face, but judging by the angle of his jaw and the set of his cheek muscle I thought he was smiling.
 
Runner said:
Babies and quitters - I don't think so. Wand's work ethic and willingness to learn are two of the reasons the coaches like him and why they tried him at guard. Maybe he was "thinking" about guard play and not just reacting? Or isn't that negative enough?

I know you were one of his supporters. Don't give up on him because of a pre-season game at a new position with very limited practice.
Click to expand...

I'm not giving up on him, I'm saying that if he repeats that performance then he should be made an example of. I'm not using overstatement or being reactionary when I say that his performance on Saturday was the worst performance I've ever seen by an NFL lineman. We're not talking about missed assignments, we're talking about getting his *** kicked by different and unspectacular players every single play- on running plays and on passing plays. View the video and see for yourself.
 
dalemurphy said:
I'm not giving up on him, I'm saying that if he repeats that performance then he should be made an example of. I'm not using overstatement or being reactionary when I say that his performance on Saturday was the worst performance I've ever seen by an NFL lineman. We're not talking about missed assignments, we're talking about getting his *** kicked by different and unspectacular players every single play- on running plays and on passing plays. View the video and see for yourself.
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I guess we'll disagree with the quitter label. I was at a few of the open practices, including the one where Wand moved to guard and he wasn't dogging it and wasn't hanging his head.

I also watched the first pre-season game closely, where he played LT, the position he can play freely without trying to actively remember a lot of new detail. On his very first play (against the 1st team defense) he drove Denver's best lineman 15 yards backwards. He pancaked lineman on another play. He also drove his man into the end zone and toward the sideline on the 2 ill-fated "and goal" plays that were run to his side.

We can all attribute motives to his play last Saturday, but looking at other evidence leads me to something other than quitting.
 
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