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Gary Kubiak 4 wins from .500
- Thread starter srrono
- Start date
srrono
All Pro
Woohoo! I think we all knew deep down he could some day be average.
Well I hope he breaks .500 and his playoff cherry this year
In a strict dictionary sense, of course. I might say "slightly" or "just" above average though. Statistically speaking, do we really want to get into sigma and rho and stuff?
Trail.Blazr
Hooked up to a Kool-Aid IV
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ Check out Wade Phillips.
Check out other names... then again, think of Gary at 500... ?? It's been a long road, but he's in some good company... notably, 600 seems to be too high. there are some great coaching names in the 500's.
Check out other names... then again, think of Gary at 500... ?? It's been a long road, but he's in some good company... notably, 600 seems to be too high. there are some great coaching names in the 500's.
srrono
All Pro
Mike Tomlin sure was gifted a good team
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
Yeah, but Tomlin took that good team to 2 Superbowls in his first 5 seasons.
The man has proven to be an above-average coach, not to be confused with
Kubiak.
...and he's only 39 years old.
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
not saying tomlin isnt a good coach but it doesnt look like hes done a great job replenishing that great team he was handed. i think we're going to find out in the next few yrs how good he really is when he has to build his own team
say what you want about kubiak but no one can deny he's done a good job of building a good young team from scratch here
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
"Yeah, but..."
He didn't have to go through the growing pains of having to build that team from scratch and so his w/l record is inflated. Same with Wade Phillips and Mike Martz.
I'd honestly like to see the results of many well respected coaches after taking a 2-14 team saddled with salary cap issues and David Carr as a QB.
House of Pain
Wild Speculator
That's on him. I mean, those kids go out there and give it their all. They need to make sure they close out those games. :::taps thumb on podium:::
House of Pain
Wild Speculator
Don't forget dealing with the fallout of their terrible drafts and the Babin trade.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
There are some things that people seem to find irritating about Kubiak that I just don't see the problem with: tapping the podium, calling players "kids", having the big playsheet, being superstitious enough to turn away from the field goal attempt. None of that stuff bothers me at all.
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
Wayne Fontes had a more productive career that Gary Kubiak.
Kubes' fans are all FAITH, no results.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/FontWa0.htm
Kubes' fans are all FAITH, no results.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/FontWa0.htm
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
"Yeah, but..."
He didn't have to go through the growing pains of having to build that team from scratch and so his w/l record is inflated. Same with Wade Phillips and Mike Martz.
fixed
1-4 playoff record with one of the greatest running backs in NFL history.
Better than Kubiak at this point, but honestly, not by much.
You know I'm not a Kubiak fan, but I've suspended my 'lack of faith' in him for this season. Let it play out and see what his sixth brings to Houston. 3-1 so far, but still have 75% of the season to go.
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
Looks like 5 playoff appearances with one of the worst front offices of all time.
Kubiak's career still doesn't measure up, no.matter what happens this season.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
You disagree?
The top ten active coaches in terms of winning percentage are:
1. Mike Tomlin -- .662
2. Bill Belichik -- .635
3. Mike Martz -- .624
4a. Mike McCarthy -- .619
4b. Sean Payton -- .619
6. Andy Reid -- .610
7. Mike Shanahan -- .587
8. Wade Phillips -- .573
9. Lovie Smith -- .560
10. Tom Coughlin -- .557
Several of thos guys (including Tomlin, Martz, and Phillips) have such high percentages because they inherited good teams and didn't have to build anything from scratch.
That's not a knock on them. It's especially not a knock on Tomlin because he was able to convert that great team/tradition into SBs. It is, however, the truth.
House of Pain
Wild Speculator
Don't forget 'the hair.' I mean, it's perfect, it's as if Michelangelo himself came down from Heaven and gave him Zeus's brush, made from fine metal works of Hephaestus. It's like the opposite of Rudy T's hair.
Lighten up! And for the record, it doesn't really 'bother' me. I think it brings us closer together as fans. He's got his idiosyncrasies just like the rest of us, it's just "Smoothiak" tries to hide his personality, so naturally, people are going to look for anything you are going to get ripped to shreds when your team is inconsistent and 'soft.'
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
Here's where we disagree...
Kubiak has had decent NFL-calibur talent four or five consecutive years.
The evidence is 3-consecutive 8-8 seasons and a 9-7 year while playing
in the AFC South.
Those show UNDERACHIEVEMENT. Kubiak has not shown the ability to get all phases of
his team to maintain the necessary amount of focus to win against good teams in
his league. Nothing about this season, so far, has deviated from what Kubiak has
shown us.
The only stats that matter are W's an L's, and the level of competition they get
them against. I'm still waiting for this coach to show us something we haven't
seen from him yet.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Don't forget 'the hair.' I mean, it's perfect, it's as if Michelangelo himself came down from Heaven and gave him Zeus's brush, made from fine metal works of Hephaestus. It's like the opposite of Rudy T's hair.
Lighten up! And for the record, it doesn't really 'bother' me. I think it brings us closer together as fans. He's got his idiosyncrasies just like the rest of us, it's just "Smoothiak" tries to hide his personality, so naturally, people are going to look for anything you are going to get ripped to shreds when your team is inconsistent and 'soft.'
Just a note, but if you have to tell someone to "lighten up", then you might want to look at yourself. Hearing someone's tone and emotion in a post is really hard and I was in no way uptight or pissed off or anything when I posted. I didn't intend my response to you to be grim or anything.
That post wasn't even necessarily directed at you. It was directed at the people who ***** and moan about Kubiak for stuff that's irrelevant... like apparently his hair which honestly is something I'd never think about the dude's hair. It's something that I don't understand.
I can understand DexmanC being pissed off because Kubiak should have been fired after last year's 6-10 record and the 5-7 record after 12 games. I understand some of the knocks on Kubiak because of his play calling or time management or record. Because those are valid points.
But his hair? His play sheet? Calling players kids? Seriously?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
But see, Dexman. THAT's a totally different thing than what's being discussed.
Kubiak should have been fired after last season. He had a very good, very talented team and ended up 6-10. He should have been fired. I think we agree on that.
But that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion about Tomlin, Martz, and Phillips having inflated W/L percentages because they've were fortunate enough to take over some good teams. Great teams in Tomlin's and Martz's cases.
Those are two different threads of discussion.
Did Kubiak underperform last year? Yes. He did. He should have been fired.
He wasn't.
So now what? Whine? Moan? *****? What's the point in that? Kubiak has a good team and a hell of an opportunity to take control of the AFC South. He might not do it. The team might underperform again. But since this is my team and the coach of my team, I'm going to root for him and hope he figures things out until we start going south again.
THEN I'll start whining, moaning, and bitching. But pre-emptive whining, moaning, and bitching is pointless.
House of Pain
Wild Speculator
I see your point. Those people suck at life, but do you honestly listen to those people? It's like people I run into that are huge Longhorn fans, and they 'hate' Kubiak because he's 'not a good coach, and a loser' (translation: he went to Texas A&M).
Some people like to be sad and angry all the time. Right Dex?
This is where I'm at right now. Just hoping for the best for this season, because there is nothing we can do about previous seasons or Kubiak's rather drab record as HC.
Hair? - After Carr, there is no hair discussion....ever.
Denny's Menu? - Not really.
Calling his players kids - This is where I'll disagree. Sure, it seems genuine and all aw-shucks, but doesn't it send the wrong message to these grown MEN about what you expect out of them? Call 'em MEN and they might try to behave that way. Call 'em kids and you may get the Jacoby and Arian incidents.
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
When discussing the lameness of Kubiak, you chose to inject the names
Of CREDIBLE head coaches into the convo. I'm just waiting for something
UnKubiak-like to occur. I certainly wouldn't classify anything I've said as
"bitching" or "moaning.". Those who were doing so are simply attempting
to silence me from stating truth. Every single game Kubiak is involved in,
from here on out, should be examined carefully. He has not yet earned a reputation
as a credible NFL head coach.
It is what it is.
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
I see your point. Those people suck at life, but do you honestly listen to those people? It's like people I run into that are huge Longhorn fans, and they 'hate' Kubiak because he's 'not a good coach, and a loser' (translation: he went to Texas A&M).
Some people like to be sad and angry all the time. Right Dex?
There's no anger coming from me. I take joy in being truthful. It seems
to be my words which rise The Church of Kubiak in anger against me. They
call me a heretic. lol
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
New Orleans went through a hurricane and became one
of the best teams in the NFL soon after. Kubiak fans have a faith
higher in this man than they do in God. It's very comical.
Fred
Veteran
Kubiak 4 wins from .500. OK, thanks for the thread - mods please change title to "Dog Bites Man". Kubiak is always about 4 wins from .500. I'm too lazy to research all the times, but off the top of my head:
2006: 5-9 and 6-10.
2007: 0-0, 2-2, 3-3, 5-5, 8-8.
2008: 0-0, 8-8.
2009: 0-0, 5-5, 7-7.
2010: 5-7.
2011: 2-0, 3-1.
Maybe one or two of those is wrong, but I bet I forgot more than I added in wrong. Basically, Kubes is always 4 games under .500.
Here is a complete listing of when he's been 1 game over .500:
Feel free to start a thread then.
2006: 5-9 and 6-10.
2007: 0-0, 2-2, 3-3, 5-5, 8-8.
2008: 0-0, 8-8.
2009: 0-0, 5-5, 7-7.
2010: 5-7.
2011: 2-0, 3-1.
Maybe one or two of those is wrong, but I bet I forgot more than I added in wrong. Basically, Kubes is always 4 games under .500.
Here is a complete listing of when he's been 1 game over .500:
Feel free to start a thread then.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Go back and read the thread, man.
_SuperMario90_ brought up Wade Phillips and the coaches with a W/L percentage similar to Kubiak's. And then SRRNO brought up Tomlin lucking into the Steeler situation.
I didn't "choose" to inject the names of "credible" head coaches into the conversation. Other people did. And then in a sub-thread that had nothing to do with Kubiak, we were discussing how some coaches had inflated W/L records because of their favorable circumstances. That had nothing to do with Kubiak. Try to keep up.
And, I've got news for you. A guy who is not a credible head coach doesn't win close to 50% of his games. A guy who is not a credible head coach loses more than 75% of his games. There's a huge difference between being average and being non-credible.
A HeadCoach wears many hats. Tomlin has shown to be good enough not to screw up where it matters most (W-Ls) in the short term.
As far as acquiring players, that's the GMs job, the HC's responsibility is turning those players into a team.
But he isn't doing any worse than Caldwell in Indianapolis. That guy lucked into a good team. Let Manning do what Manning does & pray your ass off that he continues his Iron Man streak...... fiddy.
Y'all know I don't care to defend Kubiak
But, what Kubiak had to do was even worse than building from scratch. He started over on an expansion team.
Well, I say had to do, but really that's what he chose to do. there were enough players on that 2006 team to win. He chose to start over, & McNair had to sign off on that, which is the only thing I can think of that would extend Kubiak's stay past 5 years with the W-L results he's delivered.
Like I said, there never was a "team" Kubiak had to break up that circle jerk & start all over. Not one person in the organization was talking Super Bowl before Kubiak showed up.
Casserly was the expert telling them how things "should" be done.
Have you seen Babin lately? Did you see Steve Slaton last year?
I think Cushing is the only Texans I know of that did not develop a gut when they put on weight. Since Kubiak got here, we've certain players, we've been trying to get to add weight for one reason or another, & it appears the Texans were happy regardless of the make-up of that extra weight.
Amobi got fat, Slaton got fat, Babin got fat... I know Babin has gone around the league & only did enough to stay in the NFL prior to last season, but the way he looks now.... I think of what could've been if Dom was more involved with our defense back in the day.... I see something that resembles a Tatted up CMIII
But, we're talking about it in another thread. Something is wrong with the Texans' strength & conditioning program & it has been for some time.
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
"Yeah, but..."
He didn't have to go through the growing pains of having to build that team from scratch and so his w/l record is inflated. Same with Wade Phillips and Mike Martz.
You don't factor the team & coaching staff Tomlin inherited with his success?
"Yeah, but..."
He didn't have to go through the growing pains of having to build that team from scratch and so his w/l record is inflated. Same with Wade Phillips and Mike Martz.
You don't factor the team & coaching staff Tomlin inherited with his success?
TheCD
Rookie
This is where you lost me, personally. Up until we had Arian who did we have? Steve "one year wonder" Slaton? Ron "3 yards and a cloud of fat" Dayne? Samkon "I actually played in Houston?" Gado? Vernand Morency? I can barely remember that Eric Moulds and Charles Spencer played for this team.
I'd argue that our offense wasn't "decent" until about 3 years ago, at best.
And our defense? Have you forgotten about such talents as Morlon Greenwood, Anthony Weaver, Will Depms, Petey Faggins, Fred Bennet, Amobi Okoye, etc. etc. etc.?
I'd say that right now our defense is average, and working hard to be above average. We stil have no defensive tackles, we have perhaps a servicable secondary, and until Brian got here we the only LB we had was DeMeco. We obviously have little to no depth on the defense, as when a star player goes down (Brooks coming in for Mario this year, and after we lost DeMeco last year) our defense implodes on itself. If JoJo ever went down we'd end up giving up the same absurd passing yards as last year.
Is all this Kubiak's fault? You're damn right it is. But I think the real issue up to know has been his assembling of talent (both players and defensive coaches), more so than his managing of a decent team.
Being a man has nothing to do with how old you are. If you think about it, Kubiak's idea of being a "pro" may be exactly what these "kids" need to do to be considered men.
Look, you brought up Wayne Fonts, like he is the epitome of FAIL. I bet there are a lot of Fonts fans who would have loved to see Fonts' mediocrity in the last decade.
No one has gone to Detroit & done any better than what Fonts had.... meaning the problem was most likely not Fonts.
I think The Pencil Neck just told you what it was. There ain't no "Church of Kubiak" We just chose not to be negative about the current situation.
Do a poll, there aren't many of us here that agree with the decision to keep Kubiak past last season..
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
It's not that simple. Tomlin was smart enough to maintain the ingredients
he had, and he's had pretty good drafts to bring in more talent since.
His team consistently plays through the whistle. That's on coaching.
Kubiak's team has had enough talent to win, they just don't play
through the whistle, for four quarters.
That's why they get beat by teams that do (good teams.)
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
Nobody wants this team to succeed more than me, ya'll should know that
by now. All I'm saying, is that we have yet to see anything that shows
us this team is evolving at an NFL pace under Kubiak.
Should the Texans win 2 of the next 3 games, it should quiet my
criticism of Kubiak for a minute. You have a hungry Oakland team,
who the Texans would normally lose to after beating a team the
calibur of Pittsburgh. You have the Ravens, on the road, who
are coming off a bye week. The Texans would never win in
this situation. You have the Titans, on the road, who are
coming off the bye week. The Titans have always owned the
Texans under Kubiak, especially AT Tennessee. Hasselbeck
is a MUCH better quarterback than Collins, and the loss of
Kenny Britt will not hurt them as much because of Matt.
These three games will require a toughness we've NEVER seen
under Kubiak. I, for one, would love to see it. Get all the
fantasy stats in the world, make all the highlight plays, but
it's time Gary coached his boys to get the most important stat
of all:
THE WIN
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
And this, I agree with.
We've got a tough three game stretch here. It's a tougher stretch than most of us expected to be before the season began. Especially the Tennessee game.
We are good enough to go 3-0 through these games. If we go 2-1 through these three games, I'll be happy. If we go 1-2 or worse, I'm going to be pissed.
You're preaching to the choir, nobody is saying any different, you just keep beating this annoying drum incessently. We're 6 years in, NFL pace blown out the window.
Nobody (that I know of) has any problem with people criticizing Kubiak, take a look around it happens all the time. No one gets as much grief for their criticism because they (unlike you) don't drone on about last year & the year before. Catch up, let's talk about this years games.
What have you seen from Kubiak this year & try to stay on this year. We know the history... I doubt anyone here disagrees with your historical arguments. We're just tired of hearing it.
They're 2-2 if we win, just like the Steelers, it's going to be because they weren't as tough as we thought they were.
Agree.... no one is arguing this. No one.
I've been saying this since the start of the season. See, we've got a lot that we agree on, & a lot that we can talk about that is relevant.
Again, you won't find anyone who will disagree with you on this. Stop with all the stupid **** that we also agree on.
If we go 3-0 through this stretch, it will go a long way towards nixing the "Texans are soft" crap.
Mental toughness is what it's going to take.
2-1 & we've got a lot to talk about.
0-3........ same ol' Texans, no argument.
The fallacy in your comparison is glaringly obvious. You simply cannot compare the Pittsburgh Steelers franchise to the four year old Houston Texans franchise that Kubiak inherited.
The Rooney family are old pros, with a front office built on years of championship football and pedigree.
The Texans have a nice owner but he was completely inexperienced in 2002.
While both are fruit, the comparison is apples and oranges in the end.
Do not underestimate the power of multiple Lombardi trophies in the front office showcase and their impact on players seeing them everyday. That's powerful stuff, and the Texans have absolutely nothing at this point for players to be inspired by in it's 9 season history.
I'm not making excuses for Kubiak, but I think he'd have better record as a HC if he took over a Steelers team than the 2-14 Texans.
And by the same token, I bet Tomlin's record would not be so great if he inherited a 2-14 Texans with the FO jokers that were around in 2006.
Players drafted or signed by the Steelers expect to win right away. Something about all them Lombardies.
Players drafted or signed by the Texans..... not so much.