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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You think the team collapsing isn't a reflection of this loser of a coach? The same bum who in 6 years has had 4 embarrassing blowout playoff losses including an 0-30 butt kicking at home and losing while up by 24 that still resulted in a blowout because the whole team. When this guy is GM/HC/OC been here longer than the rest of the AFC South coaches with slightly above average results, has had every excuse in the book, has had #1 defenses, weapons out the butt and star players many teams would kill for...he has zero excuse.

Everything this team does is a reflection on him. No excuses.
It's 2 years not 6.

Yes it is and BOB should be fired.
 

Cerberus

Hall of Fame
Wow. That never occurred to us...
Just giving you all an unbiased view. You know, a view from the outside looking in. You all are caught up emotionally with the Texans, whereas I am not, so I figured a little affirmation about your suspicions would be appreciated. In other words, it is not YOU, it really is that BOB shouldn’t be the HC.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
Just giving you all an unbiased view. You know, a view from the outside looking in. You all are caught up emotionally with the Texans, whereas I am not, so I figured a little affirmation about your suspicions would be appreciated. In other words, it is not YOU, it really is that BOB shouldn’t be the HC.
You're not the only outsider that has said this. Even the guys from KC were questioning some of OB's decisions in that game. While some of us may be caught in the emotions, some of us realize this has been going on for 6 years. This past game may have opened a few more eyes.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Yet they have scores the most points in franchise history or close to it
I would fact check that but can’t muster the energy.
But that’s funny that is an ok excuse to fall back on for the coach and his staff but the qb doesn’t get that same excuse.

All I know is that they **** the bed too often and they tend to get their doors blown off.

Watson and smith both look better with a more competent guy calling the shots.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Wrong, I want DW4 to succeed, I just don't think he will. That's the difference. It's not personal.

Ok DW4 has regressed, his growth has been stunted. I've asked you how before you will realize DW4 ain't the guy? 51-7. This doesn't make me pro BOB either. Yes they are in yr 2 of a 3 year rebuild. DW4's regression should bother you too but I guess it's easier to just blame everything on something else than his piss poor play over the last month.

And yet they have scored the most points in franchise history or close to it. :mcclain:
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
And yet they have scored the most points in franchise history or close to it. :mcclain:
True,

After being outscored 51-7

I'm for blowing the whole thing up, because there will be no championships as long as either one of them are here. BOB's hardhead got the best of him and DW4 ain't winning a SB.

If you want a winning team keep one or both of these guys. If you want a championship these aren't your guys.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
This is why I've stated dozens of times I want to see Watson in another system , with another OC - So we know if Watson is part of the problem or not because at this point , we don't know if its one or both.


As for what I'd tell Watson in this current crapshow of an offense: If you hit the top of your drop and have nothing get outa the pocket NOW , don't think you have time , make your own time by getting out on the edge which not only puts pressure on those rushers who are now out of position but those 7 DB's in coverage now have to make a decision. Beat them enough and they'll stop doing that mess.
Watson did not have any problem at Clemson getting the ball out quickly even as he went through the whole progression because the play design is well organized to help him go fr 1 to 5 in a logical manner (most of the time it would be 1 to 3 though - or take off).

OB doesn't have the vision; his scheme is all over the place.
With the yearly turnover in personnel, it makes things difficult for new players to learn and for the QB to get in sync with his weapons; not to mention that he and the pass proctectors are having similar issues.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
Too much to respond too,

I agree with alot of this though.

Bottom line is 1. Yes BOB should be fired, 2. Either you think BOB is going to improve with a new HC or not. BTW, Young had far less talent to work with in Tampa than DW4 has here. The only offense at any level that DW4 has been successful in consisted of alot of Run Deahaun Run and you would be foolish to expect that to change regardless of who the HC is.

The Texans didn't lose because of DW4 or BOB, that was a total team failure and the house cleaning I've been calling for should happen, but obviously it's not going to happen.
I'm basing my opinion on BOB on the season as whole and his 6 yrs tenure, not just the KC debacle. Personally, I don't see enough progression from him, especially offensively and in terms of game management. Just my opinion. You talk about DW not progressing, he's a 24 yr old with 2.5 seasons of NFL experience. BOB has been here 6yrs and it's the same old same old. When he gets to the playoffs he falls apart. I want more from my HC.

I acknowledge I want more form DW as well. The difference is I believe he's young and has tremendous potential for growth. I believe he just needs a different offensive coach/system to truly excel. At this point in his career development I'd like to see him with some like Kyle Shanahan, that runs schemes designed to help the QB vs BOB who seems to overly complicate things. If Tannehill can make such significant progress with a change in coaching, I can't understand why DW couldn't. You talk about Watson like he's David Carr, but he's not. DW is more talented and has a much better work ethic.

As far as Young on TB and DW here - while DW has had great WRs (when everyone is healthy which hasn't been often) DWs offensive line has been bottom 5 in the league for 2 of his 3 yrs - again that's a fact not an excuse. Even this year, when Tunsil and Howard were healthy the T play was good, but the G play has been sub par. Scharping was a rookie and made his share of rookie mistakes. However, he is clearly talented and should progress nicely into a really good OG. Fulton was poor as was Clark once Howard went out. The OL was better overall this year. In reality, outside of Hopkins and Fuller, we don't have guys that would be sure fire starters on other teams IMO. Don't get me wrong, Hyde had a nice season but in reality, he's just a guy. Duke played well, but was under utilized IMO. Akins and Fells are nice players but they are a far cray from Kelce, Ertz, Kittle or the group of guys in Baltimore. Stills is nice, but he's a good number 3 or 4 Wr
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I'm basing my opinion on BOB on the season as whole and his 6 yrs tenure, not just the KC debacle. Personally, I don't see enough progression from him, especially offensively and in terms of game management. Just my opinion. You talk about DW not progressing, he's a 24 yr old with 2.5 seasons of NFL experience. BOB has been here 6yrs and it's the same old same old. When he gets to the playoffs he falls apart. I want more from my HC.

I acknowledge I want more form DW as well. The difference is I believe he's young and has tremendous potential for growth. I believe he just needs a different offensive coach/system to truly excel. At this point in his career development I'd like to see him with some like Kyle Shanahan, that runs schemes designed to help the QB vs BOB who seems to overly complicate things. If Tannehill can make such significant progress with a change in coaching, I can't understand why DW couldn't. You talk about Watson like he's David Carr, but he's not. DW is more talented and has a much better work ethic.

As far as Young on TB and DW here - while DW has had great WRs (when everyone is healthy which hasn't been often) DWs offensive line has been bottom 5 in the league for 2 of his 3 yrs - again that's a fact not an excuse. Even this year, when Tunsil and Howard were healthy the T play was good, but the G play has been sub par. Scharping was a rookie and made his share of rookie mistakes. However, he is clearly talented and should progress nicely into a really good OG. Fulton was poor as was Clark once Howard went out. The OL was better overall this year. In reality, outside of Hopkins and Fuller, we don't have guys that would be sure fire starters on other teams IMO. Don't get me wrong, Hyde had a nice season but in reality, he's just a guy. Duke played well, but was under utilized IMO. Akins and Fells are nice players but they are a far cray from Kelce, Ertz, Kittle or the group of guys in Baltimore. Stills is nice, but he's a good number 3 or 4 Wr
I'm not absolving BOB.

I think under Shanny DW4 would be better but still not a championship level QB. DW4's skill playersare much better than you give them credit for. Most are solid vets who have started for other teams in the NFL. They are good players and when you put them with Hopkins and WFV they're above avg. Speaking of Tannehill, Look at the skill players in the division and tell me who has a better skill position group.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
I'm not absolving BOB.

I think under Shanny DW4 would be better but still not a championship level QB. DW4's skill playersare much better than you give them credit for. Most are solid vets who have started for other teams in the NFL. They are good players and when you put them with Hopkins and WFV they're above avg. Speaking of Tannehill, Look at the skill players in the division and tell me who has a better skill position group.
Tannehill has a better overall OL (a big factor) Derek Henry led the NFL in rushing, a big deal since the run play action so often, and A.J. Brown is an absolute stud and Corey Davis is a good WR. Jonnu Smith is a play maker (I’d personally take him over Akins)

I don’t think that highly of anyone on the Jags offensive

The Colts had 2 solid TEs, TY is good, Pascal is solid, I’d take Mack over any RB on our roster. Their OL is much better than ours overall, again big factor

Let me ask you this, would the Texans have won as many games this year with Brisset or Tannehill at QB? I think not. Would the Colts or Titans win more games with DW at QB? I think they would.
 

stingray

Hall of Fame
This dude and this SB level QB bull crap. Lol smh like he’s this expert who knows who is one and who is not one.
The hilarious part about it is that he gave up on Watson after 3 yrs. He says he will never win a SB, but now hes using Tannehill as an example of a good QB.. even though Tannehill has been in the league for seven years and wasn’t very good his first three years in Miami. He justs throws crap on the wall and see if it sticks.
 
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Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Why do you guys argue with him. He is like a broken record saying the same things over and over and over just to get a rise out of you.

Some of what he says is based in reality … Yes , the system sucks ass. BUT … Watson has some flaws that contribute to this sputtering offense. He misses open receivers on a routine basis , he holds the ball too long and he has a propensity to stay in the pocket too long rather than get out while the gettins good.

Some if not all of those things might be fixed by proper coaching and a solid scheme …. which we don't have.

@steelbtexan has made up his mind on Watson …. I haven't , I need to see him with a scheme more suited to his talents , that covers for his shortcomings and an OC who can make a defense actually defend sideline to sideline as well as vertically.

You go back and look at Watson in the first 7 games of his career prior to the season ending injury and he had the quickest average release time in the league - You look at today and the script has flipped , he's hanging onto the ball until doomsday.

What happened here ?

Dabo had a great scheme for Watson … it was simple , effective , gave a blocking numbers advantage in the RPO all while masking Watson's liabilities. I don't think that system works on the NFL level but some of the concepts definitely do work and are being implemented by multiple teams and from multiple formations.
Basically on passing plays he had a primary , secondary and a checkdown option and its off script from there - Outside the pocket.
 

stingray

Hall of Fame
Some of what he says is based in reality … Yes , the system sucks ass. BUT … Watson has some flaws that contribute to this sputtering offense. He misses open receivers on a routine basis , he holds the ball too long and he has a propensity to stay in the pocket too long rather than get out while the gettins good.

Some if not all of those things might be fixed by proper coaching and a solid scheme …. which we don't have.

@steelbtexan has made up his mind on Watson …. I haven't , I need to see him with a scheme more suited to his talents , that covers for his shortcomings and an OC who can make a defense actually defend sideline to sideline as well as vertically.

You go back and look at Watson in the first 7 games of his career prior to the season ending injury and he had the quickest average release time in the league - You look at today and the script has flipped , he's hanging onto the ball until doomsday.

What happened here ?

Dabo had a great scheme for Watson … it was simple , effective , gave a blocking numbers advantage in the RPO all while masking Watson's liabilities. I don't think that system works on the NFL level but some of the concepts definitely do work and are being implemented by multiple teams and from multiple formations.
Basically on passing plays he had a primary , secondary and a checkdown option and its off script from there - Outside the pocket.
I don’t think anyone has said that Watson is perfect. All that you mentioned is true. He does hold on to the ball too long sometimes and tries to play too much backyard ball. Where he isn’t dealing with reality is that he keeps spewing this idea that the Texans should just get rid of him after three freaking years. That idea is just trolling in my opinion but like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion but everyone can also be made fun of too for outlandish opinions.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Watson did not have any problem at Clemson getting the ball out quickly even as he went through the whole progression because the play design is well organized to help him go fr 1 to 5 in a logical manner (most of the time it would be 1 to 3 though - or take off).

OB doesn't have the vision; his scheme is all over the place.
With the yearly turnover in personnel, it makes things difficult for new players to learn and for the QB to get in sync with his weapons; not to mention that he and the pass proctectors are having similar issues.

You know I studied all three of those QB's pre draft …. and my knock on Watson was that he wasn't asked to do much read wise - Dabo kept those reads real simple and flowing from the top down primary , secondary , checkdown …. take off. He was rarely asked to do read more than two and a checkdown.

The pass protection issue …. passing rushers off in real time is not an easy thing to do. That's something that takes time to learn and time together to execute. Ever notice how OL's that have been together for a long period of time tend to be good …. We got for all intents and purposes saw a quarter season with the OL we expect to see going forward.

You also have to realize that with Watson often holding the ball for far too long , these guys are being asked to maintain blocks for an extended time too … This is something that's really got to be fixed scheme wise.

Worst thing is , we didn't wake up this morning to the news that OB had been canned so we likely don't see any real solutions until 2021 ...
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I don’t think anyone has said that Watson is perfect. All that you mentioned is true. He does hold on to the ball too long sometimes and tries to play too much backyard ball. Where he isn’t dealing with reality is that he keeps spewing this idea that the Texans should just get rid of him after three freaking years. That idea is just trolling in my opinion but like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion but everyone can also be made fun of too for outlandish opinions.
What you consider to be outlandish I consider to be common sense. If you dont think a guy can win a championship why waste the time and effort. Moving on seems like the smart thing to do. IMHO
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
What you consider to be outlandish I consider to be common sense. If you dont think a guy can win a championship why waste the time and effort. Moving on seems like the smart thing to do. IMHO

Well sir I guess 90% of the NFL teams need to trade their quarterbacks. And side note the Texans and I'm sure 90% of the league doesn't share what you consider to be common sense.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You know I studied all three of those QB's pre draft …. and my knock on Watson was that he wasn't asked to do much read wise - Dabo kept those reads real simple and flowing from the top down primary , secondary , checkdown …. take off. He was rarely asked to do read more than two and a checkdown.

The pass protection issue …. passing rushers off in real time is not an easy thing to do. That's something that takes time to learn and time together to execute. Ever notice how OL's that have been together for a long period of time tend to be good …. We got for all intents and purposes saw a quarter season with the OL we expect to see going forward.

You also have to realize that with Watson often holding the ball for far too long , these guys are being asked to maintain blocks for an extended time too … This is something that's really got to be fixed scheme wise.

Worst thing is , we didn't wake up this morning to the news that OB had been canned so we likely don't see any real solutions until 2021 ...
You can scheme DW4 into a championship level QB. In short what's wrong with DW4 can be helped but cant be fixed. BOB certainly isn't doing DW4 any favors though. He expects DW4 to be able to step up into the face of the rush/pockect and deliver an accurate ball. Apparently that's too much to ask of DW4.
 

stingray

Hall of Fame
What you consider to be outlandish I consider to be common sense. If you dont think a guy can win a championship why waste the time and effort. Moving on seems like the smart thing to do. IMHO
You are definitely a broken record man.. Trying to reason with you is impossible. But its ok, Ive learned in my life that there will always be that one guy that will say anything to get attention. You are definitely that guy.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Well sir I guess 90% of the NFL teams need to trade their quarterbacks. And side note the Texans and I'm sure 90% of the league doesn't share what you consider to be common sense.
Believe it or not outside of Texans fans other fans think DW4 is a good but not great QB. I happen to agree with them, that is all.

Gotta keep looking for that elusive franchise QB because the Texans ain't got one right now.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You are definitely a broken record man.. Trying to reason with you is impossible. But its ok, Ive learned in my life that there will always be that one guy that will say anything to get attention. You are definitely that guy.
What was incorrect about what I said?

We just disagree about whether DW4 is a franchise QB. I certainly dont need the attention. Is my opinion outlandish if it becomes correct? If I was in your shoes I might hold off on making fun until whatever time frame you set. 51-7

BTW, I will ask you how many yrs is enough before you can make a decision?
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Tannehill has a better overall OL (a big factor) Derek Henry led the NFL in rushing, a big deal since the run play action so often, and A.J. Brown is an absolute stud and Corey Davis is a good WR. Jonnu Smith is a play maker (I’d personally take him over Akins)

I don’t think that highly of anyone on the Jags offensive

The Colts had 2 solid TEs, TY is good, Pascal is solid, I’d take Mack over any RB on our roster. Their OL is much better than ours overall, again big factor

Let me ask you this, would the Texans have won as many games this year with Brisset or Tannehill at QB? I think not. Would the Colts or Titans win more games with DW at QB? I think they would.
The last paragraph is where we disagree. I think the Texans would win more games with Tannehill than DW4.

Also, You like Brown/Davis/Sharpe over Hopkins/WFV/Stills and the OL isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Tannehill just gets rid of the ball quicker.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
The hilarious part about it is that he gave up on Watson after 3 yrs. He says he will never win a SB, but now hes using Tannehill as an example of a good QB.. even though Tannehill has been in the league for seven years and wasn’t very good his first three years in Miami. He justs throws crap on the wall and see if it sticks.
He was good in Miami,

He just got hurt (2 ACL's)
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
The last paragraph is where we disagree. I think the Texans would win more games with Tannehill than DW4.

Also, You like Brown/Davis/Sharpe over Hopkins/WFV/Stills and the OL isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Tannehill just gets rid of the ball quicker.
I could be wrong but I think you’d be in the minority about Tannehill vs Watson. Tannehill also use to have a reputation for holding the ball. I believe they mentioned it during the first Titan game. Guess what he’s improved in that area

I love Hop and Fuller, and I like Stills as a 3-4. I’m a ND fan so I’ve been a Fuller fan for a long time, but he can’t stay healthy. It bums me out but it’s the truth

Regarding the OL. I think your off in your assessment


Check out where the Titans rank, that’s a factor for sure. We are bottom 1/3 of the league. I do believe the OL to improve with the maturation of Scharping and Howard.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I could be wrong but I think you’d be in the minority about Tannehill vs Watson. Tannehill also use to have a reputation for holding the ball. I believe they mentioned it during the first Titan game. Guess what he’s improved in that area

I love Hop and Fuller, and I like Stills as a 3-4. I’m a ND fan so I’ve been a Fuller fan for a long time, but he can’t stay healthy. It bums me out but it’s the truth

Regarding the OL. I think your off in your assessment


Check out where the Titans rank, that’s a factor for sure. We are bottom 1/3 of the league. I do believe the OL to improve with the maturation of Scharping and Howard.
The QB can help with this alot.
 

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
Would you trade DW4 for Burrow straight up?
Dont make me answer that

Burrow has one hell of a ceiling. However that ceiling will crash down if the coaching and system are a bad fit.

I think OB could run his system with a different qb.

I think DW4 would tap into his potential with a different coach

Also just think OB has alot more learning to do as a coach in general
 

banned1976

American
Regardless of the efforts of one person this is still an O’Brien thread.

I feel the best path forward for this team is replacing the coaching staff and front office. When your young QB has to remind the coach what the score is and the rhythm the other teams offense has gotten into, in a playoff game, that’s coaching negligence. 4th and 4, down 17 and your HC is calling for the punt team in the 4th quarter? The evaluation of the team MUST start there. Anyone claiming different has to be ignored. They’re not being objective in any way.

How many times must ownership be reminded that the playoffs are too big of a stage for O’Brien before a change is made?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
You know I studied all three of those QB's pre draft …. and my knock on Watson was that he wasn't asked to do much read wise - Dabo kept those reads real simple and flowing from the top down primary , secondary , checkdown …. take off. He was rarely asked to do read more than two and a checkdown.

The pass protection issue …. passing rushers off in real time is not an easy thing to do. That's something that takes time to learn and time together to execute. Ever notice how OL's that have been together for a long period of time tend to be good …. We got for all intents and purposes saw a quarter season with the OL we expect to see going forward.

You also have to realize that with Watson often holding the ball for far too long , these guys are being asked to maintain blocks for an extended time too … This is something that's really got to be fixed scheme wise.

Worst thing is , we didn't wake up this morning to the news that OB had been canned so we likely don't see any real solutions until 2021 ...
I know; that was why I said mostly 1-3.
But there were occasions that he went through the whole progression.
This is pretty much the case for most, if not all, college QBs.

I remember reading about Montana and Walsh.
I think it was Walsh who said that Montana wasn't asked to go through the whole progression until year 5 with the Niners.
I think he (Walsh) meant "routinely", as in Montana got the full playbook in year 5.
 

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
Remember when jerry jones the owner was asked if he would fire jerry jones the GM.

I'm sure GM OB would fire HC OB who would fire OC OB
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
True,

After being outscored 51-7

I'm for blowing the whole thing up, because there will be no championships as long as either one of them are here. BOB's hardhead got the best of him and DW4 ain't winning a SB.

If you want a winning team keep one or both of these guys. If you want a championship these aren't your guys.

TBH I don't know what's so outlandish about this take.

We know damn well OB aint the guy ….

And its not likely that Watson wins a superbowl … Look at the list of players who haven't.

SportsBookUSA has them at 30:1 to win in 2021.

Chiefs 7-1
49ers 8-1
Ravens 8-1
Saints 10-1
Patriots 12-1
Steelers 12-1
Cowboys 16-1
Eagles 20-1
Packers 20-1
Seahawks 20-1
Rams 30-1
Browns 30-1
Bears 30-1
Chargers 30-1
Colts 30-1
Texans 30-1
Vikings 30-1
 

Earl34

Rookie
The last paragraph is where we disagree. I think the Texans would win more games with Tannehill than DW4.

Also, You like Brown/Davis/Sharpe over Hopkins/WFV/Stills and the OL isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Tannehill just gets rid of the ball quicker.
I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time and contributing to this tangent. But here goes. Tannehill won two playoff games by throwing for a combined 160 yards. He's completing 50% of his passes and averaging 80 yards passing in the playoffs. If you think O'Brien can scheme his way into winning a game when his QB throws for 70 yards, you are sorely mistaken. Too funny.

1579051745402.png
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Dont make me answer that

Burrow has one hell of a ceiling. However that ceiling will crash down if the coaching and system are a bad fit.

I think OB could run his system with a different qb.

I think DW4 would tap into his potential with a different coach

Also just think OB has alot more learning to do as a coach in general
How many quarterbacks been in O’Briens system?
 


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