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Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Then we have to start wondering whether Deshaun Watson is the guy.

A handful of us have already been asking that question.

I have said many times I really don't know what to make of Watson - how much of this is on him and how much is the scheme - and that I'd prefer to see him working with a different coaching staff / scheme before I backed the Brinks Truck up at his door.

Same crap stops this offense just about every week - drop 7 , rush 4 and squeeze the pocket. We know OB cant fix it or he would have by now …. if another coach cant fix it , its likely a fatal flaw in Watson.

I haven't come to that conclusion yet …. but I do accept the possibility that Watson isn't the guy and if that's the case , maybe you tag him and trade him for a slew of picks and let that team wreck their cap to the tune of $35m per for 5-6 years.
 
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TheMatrix31

Hall of Fame
A handful of us have already been asking that question.

I have said many times I really don't know what to make of Watson - how much of this is on him and how much is the scheme - and that I'd prefer to see him working with a different coaching staff / scheme before I backed the Brinks Truck up at his door.

Same crap stops this offense just about every week - drop 7 , rush 4 and squeeze the pocket. We know OB cant fix it or he would have by now …. if another coach cant fix it , its likely a fatal flaw in Watson.

I haven't come to that conclusion yet …. but I do accept the possibility that Watson isn't the guy and if that's the case , maybe you tag him and trade him for a slew of picks and let that team wreck their cap to the tune of $35m per for 5-6 years.
I don't have doubts about his ability. I do have doubts about anyone who expresses support for obviously failed coaching like this. And I have my worries about him getting David Carr'ed----psychologically ruined to the point of being irreparable.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
This stuff is just real. I mean wow are you guys serious right now. I just don't understand what people are seeing here. Watching this game, I seen two totally different offenses and defenses. Let's start with the Chiefs vs our defense.

1. We didn't have any freaking real type of pressure on Mahomes. When we did, he was able to escape from the outside of the pocket not the inside,. He ran right by our ends for big chunks of yards. No darn spy ( something we should've learned last week, seeing how effective the Bill's spy on Watson.
2. Our darn secondary looked completely lost. Mahomes had receivers open all over the field.
3. Got darn Kelce happened and happened often. Might I had he was not 100% today either. But our secondary, better yet our coach couldn't put anything together to stop him. One play at the goal line we had 4 defenders around him and dude still caught the darn ball and scored.
4. Andy Reid kept running this stuff that works. And completely went away from the running game. In the second half they probably designed run maybe 5 times.

Now the Texans

1. We tried to get cute too many darn times. Situational football completely went out the door. Why because OUR coach panic, even when we were up 24 points.
2. We couldn't prevent a four man rush from getting to our quarterback. They maintain their responsibilities and forced Watson to stay inside the tackles. When the head loses control, the darn tail will follow.
3. Their secondary gave up some plays but they also stopped their share as well. Unlike ours.
4. The formula should've been a heavy dose of Hyde, Duke and Watson. Especially after going up 24. But again our mastermind decided to be cocky and cute. You're on the wrong side of 50 and you call a fake punt.

The stuff boils down to coaching.
 

281Texan

Waterboy
A handful of us have already been asking that question.

I have said many times I really don't know what to make of Watson - how much of this is on him and how much is the scheme - and that I'd prefer to see him working with a different coaching staff / scheme before I backed the Brinks Truck up at his door.

Same crap stops this offense just about every week - drop 7 , rush 4 and squeeze the pocket. We know OB cant fix it or he would have by now …. if another coach cant fix it , its likely a fatal flaw in Watson.

I haven't come to that conclusion yet …. but I do accept the possibility that Watson isn't the guy and if that's the case , maybe you tag him and trade him for a slew of picks and let that team wreck their cap to the tune of $35m per for 5-6 years.
Then you run the ball, chew some clock, control the flow of the game when you’re up big. You have 5 guys blocking so if everyone’s doing their job up front you should be able to get one or two blocks at least in the 2nd level and eventually rip off some big gains. I have 0 doubt Watson is the guy moving forward. If they can correct the pass rush and secondary, they should be a much better team. I don’t see that happening under OB or RAC especially. I have a hard time believing that Caserio/McDaniels would be a worse pairing than what we have now
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I don't have doubts about his ability. I do have doubts about anyone who expresses support for obviously failed coaching like this. And I have my worries about him getting David Carr'ed----psychologically ruined to the point of being irreparable.

You've got to be more objective here -

I'm by no means saying OB isn't part of the problem.

What I am saying is that I'm not certain that Watson isn't part of the problem too.

We see the same things just about every game , regardless of opponent - sputtering drives or a big play or two that leads to a score - Very seldom do we see a sustained drive. Its big plays or bust.

Why is that ? Is it OB , is it Watson …. is it both ? I'm not really sure at this point other than saying OB is a big part of that but Watson isn't without question either. There are a lot of flaws to his game - holding the ball too long is one of those , missing open guys on a routine basis is another - this is quite obvious watching the All 22.

You go back and look at how Tenn , Buffalo , TB , and Denver played Watson - its almost a carbon copy aside from minor details - they all dropped 7 and dared Watson to pick them apart.

Some of those games they made enough big plays to win , others they didn't. What we didn't see with any consistency is sustained drives. Its starting to look like Famis Jamis in Tampa Bay minus the INT's. A big play or a busted drive.

I'm not yet blaming Watson , I'm just not exonerating him …. I want to see him with another coach in another offense. If we see the same results with a new coach / system …. then the likely answer is Watson is more of the problem than we realize. If that turns out to be the case , do you really want to hand him 15%+ of the cap ?
 

txtx

Waterboy
I wasn't sold on Watson when he was drafted, but boy am I now. He turned Marvel Superhero to win the Bills game, along with some great defensive calls by RAC. Watson has done that many times already in 2.5 years, and he had the most 4th-qtr comebacks in the league this year. He's the real deal.

O'Brien is fake potatoes. End of story.
 

txtx

Waterboy
We have this thread calling out BOB, but we need a new thread calling out the reporters trolling fans by bringing up 1993. No comparison.

The 93 Oilers had a great defense and were favored vs Buffalo & their backup QB. The 2020 Texans had a bad defense, were 9- 10-point underdogs vs a great offense and their great QB.

This game was like 1987's Glanville Stagger Lee game, ruined by a bad trick play gone wrong. And in 1987, they lost by more, 24.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
This ain’t Madden bro

when your defense is gassed as hell b/c theyve been getting their asses run up & down the field by KC’s offense, the last thing you want to do is run no huddle and risk getting a quick 3 and out....or something worse like a TO and send them back onto the field.
Hey Brah.....what is this Madden you speak of? The Texans were down 20 with roughly 7 minutes left......is this the point you worry about your defense being gassed or pushing your offense to put points on the board in as little time as possible? Seek this answer with your Magic Madden 8-Ball.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
This stuff is just real. I mean wow are you guys serious right now. I just don't understand what people are seeing here. Watching this game, I seen two totally different offenses and defenses. Let's start with the Chiefs vs our defense.

1. We didn't have any freaking real type of pressure on Mahomes. When we did, he was able to escape from the outside of the pocket not the inside,. He ran right by our ends for big chunks of yards. No darn spy ( something we should've learned last week, seeing how effective the Bill's spy on Watson.
2. Our darn secondary looked completely lost. Mahomes had receivers open all over the field.
3. Got darn Kelce happened and happened often. Might I had he was not 100% today either. But our secondary, better yet our coach couldn't put anything together to stop him. One play at the goal line we had 4 defenders around him and dude still caught the darn ball and scored.
4. Andy Reid kept running this stuff that works. And completely went away from the running game. In the second half they probably designed run maybe 5 times.

Now the Texans

1. We tried to get cute too many darn times. Situational football completely went out the door. Why because OUR coach panic, even when we were up 24 points.
2. We couldn't prevent a four man rush from getting to our quarterback. They maintain their responsibilities and forced Watson to stay inside the tackles. When the head loses control, the darn tail will follow.
3. Their secondary gave up some plays but they also stopped their share as well. Unlike ours.
4. The formula should've been a heavy dose of Hyde, Duke and Watson. Especially after going up 24. But again our mastermind decided to be cocky and cute. You're on the wrong side of 50 and you call a fake punt.

The stuff boils down to coaching.
Read Corrosions post above for my thoughts.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If ownership had eyes and/or a brain and have been watching BOB over the years don't you think BOB would already be gone. Don't ******* tell me about South championships when the last two years the 2nd place team is by far better than the Texans.
Yet they beat the Titans in Tennessee in the last month.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The whole football community everywhere didn’t take us seriously because of one thing:

OB.

The worst coach in the playoffs.

I would interview Bienemy, Roman, and Gregg Williams.

**** this bullshit for another year. What to watch Hyde run into Martin’s ass play after play? Watson not be taught properly and progress?
I could see bringing Gregg Williams home
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
There is no way this coach keeps the locker room. No way.

If he is here next season it is another season wasted.

You will see the players play unmotivated and without passion. No respect for him. Why should they? He was so far out of his league today. He can’t handle the decision making.

That will be on as much on Cal as OB.
This didn't seem to be the case last Saturday. Maybe it's as simple as the better team won
 

Scooter

Funky
The same two guys still blowing our embarrassment of a head coach. I know when I'm not wanted so I don't bother to check in, or even visit if I can help it (there are no other Texans forums), but it's just sad and I want to say it. I go to the games, I spend my money, I invest time and passion and even research as much as a can about the game, and this is the reward. Funny that those two post in this thread more than anyone else, tasty huh. Pushing the blame everywhere else? What would Watson look like with Andy Reed, or Harbaugh or Belichick or Shanahan or even the offense we used for 2 weeks that moved the pocket and focused on tightends? The offense we used today is the same that we've been running for years with only 'Watson save us' success ... and it's Watsons fault when he doesn't. We miraculously got 'Watson save us' through another embarrassing first round, gifted an impossible start against a juggernaut making mistakes, only for our HC to wet fart himself into indecision/wtf and a familiarly ineffective offense.

We have star players. They're being swapped out with decreasing returns thanks to our GM - would've been nice to have Kareem, Matthieu and Clowney today instead of Denver's weakest corner. That's ok though, we only mortgaged our future for a left tackle and #3wr. They had good games, how did that work out? ... AHHHH! seriously who could defend this nonsense?
 
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If the Ryan Tannehill situation taught me anything, is that coaching matters. I know Titans offense runs through Henry, but Tannehill career was revived by not having to suffer through another fake offensive "genius" in Adam Gase. And like Bill O'Brien who's NEVER shown he's any offense mastermind without Brady, Gase shows the same but with Peyton.

This coach isn't the guy. He's had more than enough time to take us to the next level. He's out of excuses. In his tenure he's had the top defenses, star QB, top WR, he gets more and more power somehow even though he's been an objective failure. And zero QBs have worked in his shitty system. How anyone can defend him at this point is beyond me. If you're okay with winning the division fine by me.

Let's not forget this guy is also the GM who flat out ignored the defense this year. We had issues on both sides and he only focused on offense. And the moves were decent but he wears every hat with nothing to show.

Mike Vrabel is a better coach. In 2 years he took the Titans after having to sit Mariota farther than this bum. How anyone defends him, how any has hope with this team as him as HC is beyond me. How many other HCs like Shannahan, Vrabel, Lafluer have to do far better than him before this team wakes up and realize he's slightly above average at best loser who had Brady carry him to any reputation this loser has
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
People keep talking about the defense and think that firing Crennel is the answer...I'm not against firing him at all...

But that front could not generate a pass rush at all and then he was playing with a db crew missing key guys.

They are giving mercilus 13 mil a year and for what? He's not a leading edge player. He's a cog.

Romeo doesn't and hasn't had a lot to work with for a majority of the season. OB went and got a top tier lt. He traded away one of romeo's top players without much immediate return.

Fire Romeo....but the gm is still going to need to find players that can generate a pass rush and solidify the defensive backfield.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
Imagine yesterday's game featuring duan brown, Brandon Brooks, and ofcourse clowney.

OB single handedly ran those guys out of town. Would those guys have changed the outcome? Probably not, but we'd have better core players and a full compliment of draft picks.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
Imagine yesterday's game featuring duan brown, Brandon Brooks, and ofcourse clowney.

OB single handedly ran those guys out of town. Would those guys have changed the outcome? Probably not, but we'd have better core players and a full compliment of draft picks.
Or maybe if we tried to get Suggs, but of course we fell for his bluff. Maybe the Texans aren't good at poker. :thinking:
 
Imagine yesterday's game featuring duan brown, Brandon Brooks, and ofcourse clowney.

OB single handedly ran those guys out of town. Would those guys have changed the outcome? Probably not, but we'd have better core players and a full compliment of draft picks.
Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Brown had a problem with McNair and wouldn't have played for him any more after the inmates comment and then ripped into him. When a player has that big a problem with an owner they are gone no matter who it is or who the coach is.

Brooks had a mental problem, and thank you because I couldn't remember his name in another post,and if anyone dropped the ball on that one it was the medical staff. I dont know if you've had to deal with company doctors or doctors in general when you are representing a company but if the doctor says there is nothing wrong with the guy that's who you go with and no you don't try to get a second opinion for the guy because that will get YOU fired along with him.

Clowney was a GM nightmare, a player that was good but not as good as someone convinced him he was and who the F/O had let slide long enough to give him most of the power. Then when we tried to, according to reports, trade him for a LT, a position of far greater need, he used that power to get what he wanted. At that point it was a no win situation for the Texans.

I'm not saying at points OB didn't have a hand in it but to say did it single handedly is just your anger talking and not based on fact.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Brown had a problem with McNair and wouldn't have played for him any more after the inmates comment and then ripped into him. When a player has that big a problem with an owner they are gone no matter who it is or who the coach is.

Brooks had a mental problem, and thank you because I couldn't remember his name in another post,and if anyone dropped the ball on that one it was the medical staff. I dont know if you've had to deal with company doctors or doctors in general when you are representing a company but if the doctor says there is nothing wrong with the guy that's who you go with and no you don't try to get a second opinion for the guy because that will get YOU fired along with him.

Clowney was a GM nightmare, a player that was good but not as good as someone convinced him he was and who the F/O had let slide long enough to give him most of the power. Then when we tried to, according to reports, trade him for a LT, a position of far greater need, he used that power to get what he wanted. At that point it was a no win situation for the Texans.

I'm not saying at points OB didn't have a hand in it but to say did it single handedly is just your anger talking and not based on fact.
Fair points. Single handedly is not accurate. How bout a "significant factor" in losing all three?
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
The Clowney situation was the dumbest thing OB did at the start of the season. There was no excuse for that trade to even happen other than OB losing his temper for some unknown reason.
 

Scooter

Funky
Brown is the only oddity in the scenario, but seems more media than reality. O'Brien wanted him out.

Brooks was a monster with no reason to be let go. "new team, not one of mine"
Clowney was CND (or similar) telling everyone that he's about to die ... as he kept being the best run stopping DE in the NFL with more than adequate pass rushing regardless of his counterparts.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
The Clowney situation was the dumbest thing OB did at the start of the season. There was no excuse for that trade to even happen other than OB losing his temper for some unknown reason.
This wasn't an unknown situation......if it was, then someone or everyone needs to go. Clowney and his agent want "x" amount of money over "x" amount of years. Texans countered with what they felt was a fair offer, it didn't move the needle with Clowney & Assc. Clowney sits out and the Texans blink first but way, way, way too late. Had they moved Clowney when they realized there was no way they could get a deal done versus trying to wait out the player with the upper-hand....they could've gotten a much better return.

Stupid Move = Stupid Results
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
This wasn't an unknown situation......if it was, then someone or everyone needs to go. Clowney and his agent want "x" amount of money over "x" amount of years. Texans countered with what they felt was a fair offer, it didn't move the needle with Clowney & Assc. Clowney sits out and the Texans blink first but way, way, way too late. Had they moved Clowney when they realized there was no way they could get a deal done versus trying to wait out the player with the upper-hand....they could've gotten a much better return.

Stupid Move = Stupid Results
Or let him play on the franchise tag. Clowney would have lost money by not playing this year, but instead we end up paying half his salary anyway.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Imagine yesterday's game featuring duan brown, Brandon Brooks, and ofcourse clowney.

OB single handedly ran those guys out of town. Would those guys have changed the outcome? Probably not, but we'd have better core players and a full compliment of draft picks.
I think about this years roster like this: we traded a 3rd round pick for Duke Johnson for him to be the backup, and not be part of the game plan for the biggest game of the year??? Why? We traded a 3rd round pick for Gareon Conley. Why? Marcus Peters was the more impactful player available AND FOR FAR LESS!! The team doesnt put in claims for Janoris Jenkins or Terrel Suggs. Maybe they dont help, maybe they do. Winning teams and those who are actually trying to get it done make those moves.

Where was our new elite pass rusher Jacob Martin yesterday? Easy to block if you scheme for him. Hey Mingo finally showed up!! Too bad we squandered his only good game of the year. Hargreaves getting burnt as usual out there. You gave RAC the backups from the movie Replacements and got mad at him when he couldnt make it work!! LOLLL you pay Whitney Mercilus for getting a sack in week 13?? its like a bad dream. Nick Martin is the highest paid center in the NFL for what??

We wasted 3 first round picks on the offensive line for them to be about as bad as they were last year. SMH.

about to enter cap hell with no draft relief in sight. should be fun.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
Brown is the only oddity in the scenario, but seems more media than reality. O'Brien wanted him out.

Brooks was a monster with no reason to be let go. "new team, not one of mine"
Clowney was CND (or similar) telling everyone that he's about to die ... as he kept being the best run stopping DE in the NFL with more than adequate pass rushing regardless of his counterparts.
Brooks had a medical problem with an uncertain future.
 

Wolf

100% Texan
To give up 7 touchdown drives in a row...is unbelievable.

Seen coaches fired for less.

But the ole Texans brass.. they will wait until our all pro players are drifting into the sunset before they will make changes to help them
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Brown is the only oddity in the scenario, but seems more media than reality. O'Brien wanted him out.

Brooks was a monster with no reason to be let go. "new team, not one of mine"
Clowney was CND (or similar) telling everyone that he's about to die ... as he kept being the best run stopping DE in the NFL with more than adequate pass rushing regardless of his counterparts.
I think Brown was more of a Rick Smith not negotiating his contract before the season. He was willing to play, just wanted a new contract.

OB probably didn’t help though.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
To give up 7 touchdown drives in a row...is unbelievable.

Seen coaches fired for less.

But the ole Texans brass.. they will wait until our all pro players are drifting into the sunset before they will make changes to help them
Was it Colvin released after the New Orleans game for giving up a touchdown?

Then there was another player too right?
 
The Clowney situation was the dumbest thing OB did at the start of the season. There was no excuse for that trade to even happen other than OB losing his temper for some unknown reason.
This wasn't an unknown situation......if it was, then someone or everyone needs to go. Clowney and his agent want "x" amount of money over "x" amount of years. Texans countered with what they felt was a fair offer, it didn't move the needle with Clowney & Assc. Clowney sits out and the Texans blink first but way, way, way too late. Had they moved Clowney when they realized there was no way they could get a deal done versus trying to wait out the player with the upper-hand....they could've gotten a much better return.

Stupid Move = Stupid Results
The Clowney situation is a real interesting one. I don't agree that there was no excuse for the trade. If you are worried that you have a pissed off player that is going to be poison to the locker room then that alone is a reason to get them out. I don't doubt OB was pissed but there are other reason to move him along. You could even argue that Ob was doing Clowney a favor and letting him go to the team he wanted instead of doing what I hoped they would do and run him into the ground like a rental car.

I do completely agree that the Texans dropped the ball on Clowney as far as contracts go but I'm not sure how much of that you can pin on OB since Gaine was the GM. Oh sure there are some that say that Gaine was just a puppet and OB was pulling the strings all along but that isn't based on anything except someone's conspiracy theory and doesn't even make logical sense.

Again don't get me wrong if I was OB Clowney would have been playing every snap even if he had to be propped up between plays Weekend at Bernie's style and I would have discipline letters prewritten just needing a date in case he at any point missed any mandatory team events. By the time the season was over there wouldn't be any questions about his leg for whatever team he goes to because I would have put him through hell, but then I'm vindictive that way, maybe OB is nicer than I am.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
Realistically, I don’t believe O’Brien will be fired this offseason. Cal must hire a GM and a new OC; two men that have no previous relationship with O’Brien.

Basically, O’Brien needs to have his work duties reduced to coaching only - and he needs to improve at that job.

Sean Salisbury said this morning that Watson needs to improve and once he does he’ll be playing at a higher level. I believe that to be true if he gets to work with an OC that develops a scheme that enhances his abilities.
Bottom line is, until the things above happen the offense will continue to be inconsistent. The loss to KC perfectly encapsulated what we’ve seen all year. An offense that one minute looks like a juggernaut and the next a wounded duck.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
If you are worried that you have a pissed off player that is going to be poison to the locker room then that alone is a reason to get them out.
Except was he really pissed? I get being upset about being franchised and not getting an extension worked out, but the plan at that point was to come in at the end of camp, sign the tender, and get back to business. It wasn't until OB wanted to send him off to Miami that things went south. Next thing you know you're giving up an impact player for almost nothing AND paying half his salary.
 

nut

Veteran
The owner will probably want to keep him. The games are a sellout and Obrien may choose to use his bully tactics. No way cancelling season tickets would make any difference because not enough people would do it. The Coach/Playcaller does not have the constitution in his guts to handle the pressure of these big games. It is a requisite to be able to think clearly when the pressure is ramped up. A guy with a nickname of "The Teapot" does not have the ability to make effective decisions under fire. I was more depressed than angry yesterday when the Playcaller sent out those absurd plays when we were way ahead. That is what he has usually done in moments of great magnitude. I hear him say "we are headed in the right direction" and "we just have to coach better" after yesterday's game but that is what he always says after his numerous mistakes.

Maybe if everybody elects to chip in $20 for gigantic signs in high traffic areas requesting his dismissal he would resign or get canned.

Is there any way to get rid of him and if so, how? All suggestions are appreciated.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Realistically, I don’t believe O’Brien will be fired this offseason. Cal must hire a GM and a new OC; two men that have no previous relationship with O’Brien.

Basically, O’Brien needs to have his work duties reduced to coaching only - and he needs to improve at that job.

Sean Salisbury said this morning that Watson needs to improve and once he does he’ll be playing at a higher level. I believe that to be true if he gets to work with an OC that develops a scheme that enhances his abilities.
Bottom line is, until the things above happen the offense will continue to be inconsistent. The loss to KC perfectly encapsulated what we’ve seen all year. An offense that one minute looks like a juggernaut and the next a wounded duck.
Yep,

Don't expect much improvement from DW4. Use the last 3 years as a template for DW4's further improvement.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Except was he really pissed? I get being upset about being franchised and not getting an extension worked out, but the plan at that point was to come in at the end of camp, sign the tender, and get back to business. It wasn't until OB wanted to send him off to Miami that things went south. Next thing you know you're giving up an impact player for almost nothing AND paying half his salary.
I didn't see Clowney making much of an impact this weekend. I'm very interested in seeing how much a guy with 3 sacks gets paid in FA.
 


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