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FIRE BILL O'BRIEN NOW!!!

dream_team

All Pro
This is correct. But most times it really just centers around formationing & personnel packages that you want to most utilize to exploit certain defensive sets and matchups of your opponents that you potentially have in your favor.........for that week. You might even adjust routes, protection schemes and qb progressions a little too just to throw off the defense. For instance, on a typical set up, DW4's 1st read may be Fuller on 1 type of play against an opponent, but against another a few weeks later, Nuk might be the 1st guy DW4 looks for on that same play....just depends on the match up & what the defense is doing.

However, the concepts you as an offense want to exploit usually don't change too much from game to game. Everyone here wonders why BoB just loves running Hyde up the middle. Well its a core offensive concept for his offense b/c running it in the middle like that has such a huge effect on the defense.....even if it is sporadic & largely not good like it is with us. It also opens up alot of his other core offensive concepts in how he likes to attack the middle & deep parts of the field in the passing game with those deep overs & square-ins b/c unless the d-line can combat the run game by themselves, the LB's have to respect that threat of the run...& DW4 typically throws right behind them when they step up.
Yah, ok. I'm in agreement with you.

Being able to run the ball between the tackles is a core concept with every offense in the NFL. No matter how ineffective it is, you need to continue to do it (with varying frequency).
 

Earl34

Rookie
This is correct. But most times it really just centers around formationing & personnel packages that you want to most utilize to exploit certain defensive sets and matchups of your opponents that you potentially have in your favor.........for that week. You might even adjust routes, protection schemes and qb progressions a little too just to throw off the defense. For instance, on a typical set up, DW4's 1st read may be Fuller on 1 type of play against an opponent, but against another a few weeks later, Nuk might be the 1st guy DW4 looks for on that same play....just depends on the match up & what the defense is doing.

However, the concepts you as an offense want to exploit usually don't change too much from game to game. Everyone here wonders why BoB just loves running Hyde up the middle. Well its a core offensive concept for his offense b/c running it in the middle like that has such a huge effect on the defense.....even if it is sporadic & largely not good like it is with us. It also opens up alot of his other core offensive concepts in how he likes to attack the middle & deep parts of the field in the passing game with those deep overs & square-ins b/c unless the d-line can combat the run game by themselves, the LB's have to respect that threat of the run...& DW4 typically throws right behind them when they step up.
Although you make some valid points, regardless of game plan offense or not. You cannot have Duke Johnson only getting 3 targets in two weeks. Especially when you consider Coutee being in the doghouse, Stills and Fuller still recovering from hamstring injuries, Tunsil and Howard being injured and the running game being inconsistent since the bye. It's "easy money", keeps the chains moving, and helps the running game, OL and Watson when they are struggling.

It's not execution to go into a game to target your pass catching RB 5 to 6 times a game against a LB or S.

 

ROO

Fire somebody...
Everyone here wonders why BoB just loves running Hyde up the middle. Well its a core offensive concept for his offense b/c running it in the middle like that has such a huge effect on the defense.....
Good post, thanks!

The reason I wrote Getting stuffed in the middle 10 times a game just shouldn't happen >(I think)< in post 7891 is because I thought that may be the very reason it happens. It forces the defense to keep more defensive players close to the line of scrimmage in the middle which opens up other opportunities.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Well its a core offensive concept for his offense b/c running it in the middle like that has such a huge effect on the defense.....
I think a lot of the reason our run game has gone downhill is because Watson has shown a reluctance to keep the ball on those RPO play fakes. The end crashes down hard every time daring him to keep it, but he don't.

It's the same with the MLBs. If they don't recognize the threat for Watson to run, they can plug up the middle that much faster.
 
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dream_team

All Pro
Good post, thanks!

The reason I wrote Getting stuffed in the middle 10 times a game just shouldn't happen >(I think)< in post 7891 is because I thought that may be the very reason it happens. It forces the defense to keep more defensive players close to the line of scrimmage in the middle which opens up other opportunities.
Well you are correct in saying "... just shouldn't happen". If players properly execute the play, and everyone does their job, you should be able to easily gain positive yards. What I'm seeing too much are guys not doing their job or getting beat on their blocks.
 

dream_team

All Pro
I think a lot of the reason our run game has gone downhill is because Watson has shown a reluctance to keep the ball on those RPO play fakes. The end crashes down hard every time dating him to keep it, but he don't.

It's the same with the MLBs. If they don't recognize the threat for Watson to run, they can plug up the middle that much faster.
It also doesn't help that Nick, Max and Zach all have horrible run-blocking scores on PFF.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
If it is Watson's interpretation that is off, I still blame BOB for forcing Watson to be something that maybe he isn't. Install some plays/scheme that Watson can interpret correctly.

Since the OL has injuries and hasn't gelled yet, install some plays to give them some relief. If Watson is pressured on many of the pocket passing plays and he ends up scrambling anyway, may as well use some plays that gets Watson on the move from the beginning.

It has been mentioned before, but has O'Brien's stubbornness gotten himself between a rock and a hard place? Since he has basically refused to change up his scheme for Watson, if he does so now and the changes are successful, that will subject him to a lot of criticism of why he didn't figure it out sooner?

Anyway, my apologies to all for the above rants, I know this message board has been over this stuff a thousand times before. I am particularly down on O'Brien right now. My excuse is that my neighbor is a Patriots fan and I really want the Texans to win tonight. But if BOB uses the same ol' same ol' tonight, it won't be pretty.

Come on Bill, do something different and give your team a chance to win.
well you should be able to walk right over to your neighbor's knock on his door, drop your trousers and moon that rascal!
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I think a lot of the reason our run game has gone downhill is because Watson has shown a reluctance to keep the ball on those RPO play fakes. The end crashes down hard every time daring him to keep it, but he don't.

It's the same with the MLBs. If they don't recognize the threat for Watson to run, they can plug up the middle that much faster.
Besides the fact that the OBrien QB running concept is inadequate at best? Watch how the Ravens design runs for Jackson. Its a symphony of movement. Get him in space and allow his instinct to take over. Watson here has to CREATE out of the RPO. Not as easy as you make it sound. Defenses arent dumb, they know what to do VS that attack. Taking a free shot on Deshaun isnt in his best interest. OBriens other novel attempt at running Deshaun was on a classic QB option. I guess he wants to see blood on the field, cuz thats how you get blood on the field.

Now im not advocating running Watson "more" or the same way as Jackson. For one, Jackson is a more explosive and shifty runner and has only missed ONE GAME so far since his freshman year in college due to a twisted ankle! IMO its only a matter of time before Jackson is sidelined because I dont think that play style is sustainable, but I could definitely be wrong considering the direction the game seems to be going at the position - I digress. Secondly, I think Watson is the superior THROWER and I would like a nice balance of both if possible. More chances for the defense to make mistakes the better.

Its up to the play design to take advantage of a) the runners ability and b) the defensive alignment. Its a little more complicated than citing a concept and identifying that as a sole reason for the run game going downhill. Maybe, JUST MAYBE .. Carlos Hyde isnt as "great" as everyone thought? Maybe he is what he is and has been thus far in his career? Offensive line woes? So many variables, and yet its the RPO thats killing the run game! OKAY!

I'll try to keep a log next game of the types of designed QB runs and their outcome and we can further the discussion. Maybe I can dig something up on the QB runs so far this year and how many were "designed" vs improvised/flushed out of the pocket type runs. Its an interesting topic.
 
Let me paint a scenario - Bill O sucks big time in the playoffs. Do we fire him?
Now if Carolina fires Ron R, would you bring him in?
Honestly, I can't see a situation they let Bill go this season if we make the playoffs. He's out of excuses imo but it took Rick Smith having an unfortunate family situation for him to go and he was paid Brock Osweiler without meeting him. Unless O'B commits murder this won't be the year he's let go no matter the result
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Let me paint a scenario - Bill O sucks big time in the playoffs. Do we fire him?
Now if Carolina fires Ron R, would you bring him in?
BoB's not getting fired...The only way i can maybe see that happening this year is if we get curb-stomped in the playoffs..but even then its a long shot. As for wanting Ron Rivera to replace him
1. - how and/or why would he even be seen as an upgrade over BoB?
2. - Do we really want the guy that effectively ruined Cam to come here & work with DW4?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Although you make some valid points, regardless of game plan offense or not. You cannot have Duke Johnson only getting 3 targets in two weeks. Especially when you consider Coutee being in the doghouse, Stills and Fuller still recovering from hamstring injuries, Tunsil and Howard being injured and the running game being inconsistent since the bye. It's "easy money", keeps the chains moving, and helps the running game, OL and Watson when they are struggling.

It's not execution to go into a game to target your pass catching RB 5 to 6 times a game against a LB or S.

Its touches moreso than pass targets for Duke that's important & Duke gets his touches throughout the game. He has to be seen as a threat running the ball too, otherwise it becomes a tell that we're going to pass every time he's on the field. Aside from that, he's been targeted 5 or more times in 5 games this year with varying degrees of success. You could also argue he's been more effective running the ball as a change of pace more shiftier guy than Hyde. believe the longest run of the NE game came from Duke. But of course, b/c he's scored all but 1 of his TD's off of passes, people think "oh, well we can do that all the time with him.." yeah not quite. He's a 3rd down back & he doesn't always have the advantage well in his favor like he did against NE.
 
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Texansphan

All Pro
BoB's not getting fired...The only way i can maybe see that happening this year is if we get curb-stomped in the playoffs..but even then its a long shot. As for wanting Ron Rivera to replace him
1. - how and/or why would he even be seen as an upgrade over BoB?
2. - Do we really want the guy that effectively ruined Cam to come here & work with DW4?
I agree Bill will likely not get fired unless they look horrendous in the playoffs.
Suggesting he (Rivera) may ruin DW4 because Cam didn't work out is like saying John Harbaugh ruined Colin Kaepernick.
 
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TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I agree Bill will likely not get fired unless they look horrendous in the playoffs.
Suggesting he (Rivera) may ruin DW4 because Cam didn't work out is like saying John Harbaugh ruined Colin Kaepernick.
Or how the Shannahans did RG3.

Oh wait. That one fits. Because Kaep made a choice to kneel. Didn’t get cleared to play when injured. Two different things.
 

banned1976

American
Let me paint a scenario - Bill O sucks big time in the playoffs. Do we fire him?
Now if Carolina fires Ron R, would you bring him in?
Rivera and Jason Garret have pretty much the same record since 2011. I don’t want either of those two.

Honestly, if this season comes to an end due to incompetent coaching, specifically O’Brien, and it’s undisputed who was a fault, yes, he should be fired. But I don’t want Riverboat Ron.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
Good post, thanks!

The reason I wrote Getting stuffed in the middle 10 times a game just shouldn't happen >(I think)< in post 7891 is because I thought that may be the very reason it happens. It forces the defense to keep more defensive players close to the line of scrimmage in the middle which opens up other opportunities.
IMO it’s less about 10 attempts up the middle per game but more about doing majority of that on 1st and ten. It’s ridiculous that we more often than not run up the middle on first and ten. It’s too predictable.

I agree that Watson needs to keep the ball a few times a game on those RPOs. There were a few times the ends were crashing hard leaving huge lanes for him. At some point he needs to capitalize on it.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
IMO it’s less about 10 attempts up the middle per game but more about doing majority of that on 1st and ten. It’s ridiculous that we more often than not run up the middle on first and ten. It’s too predictable.

I agree that Watson needs to keep the ball a few times a game on those RPOs. There were a few times the ends were crashing hard leaving huge lanes for him. At some point he needs to capitalize on it.
I was at the game and think it was the first 6 or 7 first downs were runs. Without watching the replay I cannot verify, but largely inside. I was face palming like you, but like the first three times he tried to throw DW4 got pasted. Looked like the Pats knew how to influence the OL to slide and took advantage, them it adjusted. So as pissed as I was, +2 was better than -5. They seemed to fix it and did set up some plays, but do you really have to waste two drives...
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
What coach doesn't stick with what he believes will work? The difference between win & losses is mostly execution & some luck
......and in game adjustments. Coaches in the booth should be getting their observations to the field after 2 or 3 series so if the pre-prepared game plan is doomed for failure. This is where OB should step in and make changes on the fly with the OC.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
......and in game adjustments. Coaches in the booth should be getting their observations to the field after 2 or 3 series so if the pre-prepared game plan is doomed for failure. This is where OB should step in and make changes on the fly with the OC.


So.................how do you know this isn't or hasn't been going on though? The circular reasoning guys use in here to fit their agendas blows my mind at times.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
No they didn't... I was going to games with TB and others
Sorry, but I specifically remember several of them going nuts over Kubiak being criticized in here. Texan Bill and Glass Half Full might as well have had a string out for him. The Aggies/Texans fans never cared what he did as HC, but as long as he was their HC. Glass was a die hard Aggie fan, and a lot of them complained about negativity towards Kubiak.
 


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