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FIRE BILL O'BRIEN NOW!!!

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I think it is an issue that Watson struggles as much as he does against the blitz. It's why we're not competitive with Baltimore, why we barely beat the Colts.
Baltimore blitzed heavy... they were the highest blitzing team going in, OB should have known that and planned for it. Colts didn't blitz much, but Texans 5/6 couldn't block 3
 
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thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Baltimore blitzed heavy... they were the highest blitzing team going in, OB should have known that and planned for it. Colts didn't blitz much, butTexans 5/6 couldn't block 3
Colts only rushed three but showed Blitz every third & long. I think that confused Watson. He didn't look like a magician when the ball was snapped. Wasn't looking downfield, wasn't working the pocket. IMO, his desire to get out of the pocket made a bad performance by the OL even worse.

Far as I'm concerned there is no BO'b or Watson debate. It's BO'b & Watson.
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
I hate BO'b.

I hate Bill O'Brien.

I wish they'd go ahead and fire him already.

I may be an O'Brien fan after tomorrow night so I need to get this out while I can.
LOL! I feel the exact same way. Can't stand the SOB but then he goes and calls a game like a competent OC/HC and the glimmer of hope makes me cut him a break for a week or two.
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
I like this play, but could our OL block it?

and this

but damnit, don't run this 14 times okay? If you do, you deserve to be fired.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I wish they would fire BOB just to stop all of this.

But then I'm sure it would be the next HC's fault.

Take you to the alter only to disappoint you
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
"the plan"

Vanilla pocket passing where the Texans live or die depending on how much pass rush the opponent gets. Letting the game be determined solely by the individual match-ups - not realizing that when the other team is better than your team, you have to do something different instead of just playing straight-up head-to-head predictable football. No roll-outs, no moving pockets, no screen passes, essentially doing nothing to counter the fact that the defensive line is better than the Texans' offensive line. Thinking that "the plan" is so good that "the plan" is what will win games regardless of the player's strengths and match-ups.

That's the view from here. Maybe my perception is completely wrong.
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
So I went back and watched some of the highlights from the first half of the season. I was surprised to see that the playcalling for every game was very similar. I was under the perception that the games the Texans won had a much more creative game plan, and the ones they lost were vanilla BOB. But it wasn't like that. Most of the highlights in both the wins and the losses come from pocket passing where one of two things happens:
1) The pocket is clean and Watson finds an open receiver.
2) The pocket collapses and Watson takes off, making a gain with his legs or by extending the play and passing.

To me, this simply confirms that BOB either has no imagination, or he is so enamored with himself and his plan that he refuses to do anything different. I have posted some videos in posts above of plays that other teams run, yet the Texans don't. With the weapons the Texans have, there is no reason why this offense can't be way better than what it is. Sure, the offensive line hasn't gelled and has injuries, but that is when a good coach would do some different things to put the team in a position to win.

I would enjoy if some of the rest of you could post some videos of play-types that y'all would like to see the Texans run. Most of us complain about O'Brien's crappy offensive scheme, but what would you do different?
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
So I went back and watched some of the highlights from the first half of the season. I was surprised to see that the playcalling for every game was very similar. I was under the perception that the games the Texans won had a much more creative game plan, and the ones they lost were vanilla BOB. But it wasn't like that. Most of the highlights in both the wins and the losses come from pocket passing where one of two things happens:
1) The pocket is clean and Watson finds an open receiver.
2) The pocket collapses and Watson takes off, making a gain with his legs or by extending the play and passing.

To me, this simply confirms that BOB either has no imagination, or he is so enamored with himself and his plan that he refuses to do anything different. I have posted some videos in posts above of plays that other teams run, yet the Texans don't. With the weapons the Texans have, there is no reason why this offense can't be way better than what it is. Sure, the offensive line hasn't gelled and has injuries, but that is when a good coach would do some different things to put the team in a position to win.

I would enjoy if some of the rest of you could post some videos of play-types that y'all would like to see the Texans run. Most of us complain about O'Brien's crappy offensive scheme, but what would you do different?
What coach doesn't stick with what he believes will work? The difference between win & losses is mostly execution & some luck
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
It isn't the "believes it will work" that is at issue. It is the "sticking with" that is the problem. Harbaugh was intelligent enough to see that Jackson is different than Flacco, and therefore implemented a new system to take advantage of that. If Harbaugh insisted that Jackson run an offense that was suited for Flacco, the Ravens would not be as successful as they are right now.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
It isn't the "believes it will work" that is at issue. It is the "sticking with" that is the problem. Harbaugh was intelligent enough to see that Jackson is different than Flacco, and therefore implemented a new system to take advantage of that. If Harbaugh insisted that Jackson run an offense that was suited for Flacco, the Ravens would not be as successful as they are right now.
But Watson isn't different than Watson
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
But Watson isn't different than Watson
You are 100% correct, but Watson is different than Hoyer, Savage, Mallet, etc, but O'Brien's offense seems the same.

Are you happy with the Texans' playcalling?

Are you satisfied with O'Brien's playbook and plan that he uses with Watson?

Would it be ridiculous to think that Harbaugh could get more out of the Texans offense than O'brein does?

In the NFL, does the coach's scheme and gameplan make any difference, or is it all on the players' execution?
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
You are 100% correct, but Watson is different than Hoyer, Savage, Mallet, etc, but O'Brien's offense seems the same.

Are you happy with the Texans' playcalling?

Are you satisfied with O'Brien's playbook and plan that he uses with Watson?

Would it be ridiculous to think that Harbaugh could get more out of the Texans offense than O'brein does?

In the NFL, does the coach's scheme and gameplan make any difference, or is it all on the players' execution?
No
No
No
Not all, but some
 
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ROO

Fire somebody...
I keep thinking of the Divisional playoff game we should have beat the Patriots, with Brock Osweiler. I think Watson makes those three plays Brock didn't, with the same play calling.
If I remember correctly, the refs screwed the Texans on a couple of critical spots too.

So now I have to ask you TK, are you satisfied with O'Brien's playcalls and playbook?
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I keep thinking of the Divisional playoff game we should have beat the Patriots, with Brock Osweiler. I think Watson makes those three plays Brock didn't, with the same play calling.
I think of that game too. And last year toward the end of the season. I recall people saying the plays had changed and “where has this offense been all season “ type of comments.

I am calling it now.

OB will open up his playbook and call different plays at the end of the season and playoffs. To outsmart everyone...
 
I think of that game too. And last year toward the end of the season. I recall people saying the plays had changed and “where has this offense been all season “ type of comments.

I am calling it now.

OB will open up his playbook and call different plays at the end of the season and playoffs. To outsmart everyone...
I'd love that, sick of losing to the Patriots, especially in primetime
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So now I have to ask you TK, are you satisfied with O'Brien's playcalls and playbook?
I'm not satisfied with what I see. But I don't know if I blame BO'bs playcalling or Watsons interpretation of it.

That's not blaming Watson.

They should spend enough time together that they should be able to communicate to each other. Think Tom Cruise & the thingamajig in Days of Thunder.

Something is off & those are the two that need to fix it.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
LOL

Great excuse.

Brisset almost out played Watson on one leg last night.

If we're going to play the if game, if the Colts would've gotten those turnovers the Colts would've beaten the Texans and Brissett would've outplayed Watson and it somehow would've been BOB's fault IF the Texans had lost.

Yeah...that Brissett is a HOF in waiting. He sure looked like it against the Titans today...LOL

:bravo::lol::corrosion:
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Yeah...that Brissett is a HOF in waiting. He sure looked like it against the Titans today...LOL

:bravo::lol::corrosion:
Keep it close & he doesn't have to force the ball. He makes good decisions, nothing risky.

They get behind late in the game, he's got to push & take chances. But this is his first season as a starter, so he may get better in the future.
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
I'm not satisfied with what I see. But I don't know if I blame BO'bs playcalling or Watsons interpretation of it.

That's not blaming Watson.

They should spend enough time together that they should be able to communicate to each other. Think Tom Cruise & the thingamajig in Days of Thunder.

Something is off & those are the two that need to fix it.
If it is Watson's interpretation that is off, I still blame BOB for forcing Watson to be something that maybe he isn't. Install some plays/scheme that Watson can interpret correctly.

Since the OL has injuries and hasn't gelled yet, install some plays to give them some relief. If Watson is pressured on many of the pocket passing plays and he ends up scrambling anyway, may as well use some plays that gets Watson on the move from the beginning.

It has been mentioned before, but has O'Brien's stubbornness gotten himself between a rock and a hard place? Since he has basically refused to change up his scheme for Watson, if he does so now and the changes are successful, that will subject him to a lot of criticism of why he didn't figure it out sooner?

Anyway, my apologies to all for the above rants, I know this message board has been over this stuff a thousand times before. I am particularly down on O'Brien right now. My excuse is that my neighbor is a Patriots fan and I really want the Texans to win tonight. But if BOB uses the same ol' same ol' tonight, it won't be pretty.

Come on Bill, do something different and give your team a chance to win.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
well *I'm* personally giving him a pass. Not because we won but because he used a play the players themselves conceived. That's having faith in your troops. I like that in a leader.

...I just hope this wasn't a one-of...
Hmmm. I wonder if we win that game with Brian Hoyer at QB? Maybe Fitzmagic? Obviously it could have been any QB that the QB Whisperer has coached since its his foolproof system that wins games for this team. We should probably trade Watson and start over with a QB who wont cost as much as Watson will right? I wonder if we could find a trade partner? LOL
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
well *I'm* personally giving him a pass. Not because we won but because he used a play the players themselves conceived. That's having faith in your troops. I like that in a leader.

...I just hope this wasn't a one-of...
BoB's a players coach, he's never going to publically throw his guys under the bus. So in that regard, you'll never know how many times he's done what you're asserting above.... this is just the 1st time we as fans have heard it. Regardless, he has that locker room & has always had it for a reason & i think fans really don't understand just what that truly means to have as a HC.
 

dream_team

All Pro
That was a great moment to see. You can see BOB ducks out and probably heads straight to his office. Wouldn't surprise me if he got all teary-eyed and choked up.

I think the players knew BOB finally being able to beat his mentor was a really big deal to him, so great gesture by the players. And well deserved. Was a great coaching performance. Except for the usual ugly first series, the players looked well prepared and a good game plan was in place.
 

dream_team

All Pro
Of course not...they're too busy trying to figure out where they want to move the goal posts to keep their narrative alive. "So, now that we've gone 2-1 in the biggest 3 game stretch in franchise history, where do we see him failing next so that we can keep up our narrative that he's a bad HC?"
The BOB vs DW4 debate, which actually consists of just a very few posters in TT, will always exist until the Texans win a SB. I'm just praying for a SB victory to shut up ALL the haters on BOTH sides!!!
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I don't have the All-22 so it's been really hard for me to identify what's wrong with our offense.

Taking what is said here & the few breakdowns I see on TV it looks like we still had communication issues. Receivers & line not in sync with the QB & very likely QB not in sync with playcaller.

Last night whoever was doing the game breakdown did a really good job of identifying what was happening in real time & supporting it with video evidence. The production team was awesome.

The way we exploited their LBs in man to man coverage & the zero blitz was nice. It showed BO'b knew who we were playing & attacked their weaknesses.

I want to believe BO'b has been doing this all along & just not getting through to the guys on the field.

I hope they had an aha moment & build on that so next year we aren't starting from scratch again.

Things are looking up. Good job Bill.
 
My opinion still stands overall however I did say I will gladly give Bill O'Brien gets a lot of credit for calling a good game. It's always great to get the monkey off your back, beat your former boss and do so in primetime. Now let's finish the rest of the season strong. I hope we do finish 12-4 win out the rest of the way and maybe, just maybe a little luck goes our way and we end up a 2 seed for once. I mean crazier things have happened in the NFL. So who knows.

I was really proud of this team last night and Bill O'Brien getting the game ball was a nice tough for the night. But this is one huge win for the team but it's not THE big win. Bill has said all the right things so hope the team is working to get to the next level. We are dying for a great Texans team not just a good one. Great job B'OB you earned this one. (Since the topic of the thread is about the coach I am focusing on him)
 

dream_team

All Pro
I don't have the All-22 so it's been really hard for me to identify what's wrong with our offense.

Taking what is said here & the few breakdowns I see on TV it looks like we still had communication issues. Receivers & line not in sync with the QB & very likely QB not in sync with playcaller.

Last night whoever was doing the game breakdown did a really good job of identifying what was happening in real time & supporting it with video evidence. The production team was awesome.

The way we exploited their LBs in man to man coverage & the zero blitz was nice. It showed BO'b knew who we were playing & attacked their weaknesses.

I want to believe BO'b has been doing this all along & just not getting through to the guys on the field.

I hope they had an aha moment & build on that so next year we aren't starting from scratch again.

Things are looking up. Good job Bill.
I have access to All-22. For every game, there will be a handful of plays I like to go back and see what happened. For the most part, I make guesses on who "screwed up". Truthfully, it's only the players and coaches that truly know. We don't know the player's responsibilities and what they are being coached to look for.

For example, I like checking out why our screens are always so horrendous. Most of the time, it's the TE blowing the initial block on the corner.

If there's a certain play you'd like me to checkout, will be glad to help out.
 

markn

All Pro
With OB able to put together this kind of game plan and the players able to execute it, it really makes you scratch your head at some of the garbage we've seen.

In any case, continue on this trajectory and all the nonsense that has gone before will be forgotten.
 
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ROO

Fire somebody...
I don't have the All-22 so it's been really hard for me to identify what's wrong with our offense.

Taking what is said here & the few breakdowns I see on TV it looks like we still had communication issues. Receivers & line not in sync with the QB & very likely QB not in sync with playcaller.

Last night whoever was doing the game breakdown did a really good job of identifying what was happening in real time & supporting it with video evidence. The production team was awesome.

The way we exploited their LBs in man to man coverage & the zero blitz was nice. It showed BO'b knew who we were playing & attacked their weaknesses.

I want to believe BO'b has been doing this all along & just not getting through to the guys on the field.

I hope they had an aha moment & build on that so next year we aren't starting from scratch again.

Things are looking up. Good job Bill.
Good take TK, thanks.

To my eyes, O'Brien didn't change the playcalling all that much. So I am pleased and impressed with how successful the offense was. Watson looked very comfortable and was finding the open receiver quite often. Maybe steelbtexan hasn't been that far off concerning the BOB offensive scheme.

Sure, there were a few wrinkles including the Hopkins to DW4 TD... but question for the board: Did you see a vastly different offensive plan than the usual? I didn't. I just saw good execution.

I hope that O'Brien and Watson can keep this momentum going. Looking forward to good things. I still hope that BOB will incorporate some middle screens and some better running plays. Hyde up the middle sometimes works, but let's run some off-tackle plays or something every now and then. Getting stuffed in the middle 10 times a game just shouldn't happen (I think). Also want to see some moving pockets (intentional, not forced!)

Here's to Bill O'Brien for a great win over "the Master." :fans:

P.S. My neighbor is sad today! :choke:
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I don't have the All-22 so it's been really hard for me to identify what's wrong with our offense.

Taking what is said here & the few breakdowns I see on TV it looks like we still had communication issues. Receivers & line not in sync with the QB & very likely QB not in sync with playcaller.

Last night whoever was doing the game breakdown did a really good job of identifying what was happening in real time & supporting it with video evidence. The production team was awesome.

The way we exploited their LBs in man to man coverage & the zero blitz was nice. It showed BO'b knew who we were playing & attacked their weaknesses.

I want to believe BO'b has been doing this all along & just not getting through to the guys on the field.

I hope they had an aha moment & build on that so next year we aren't starting from scratch again.

Things are looking up. Good job Bill.
No, No, No ... wont buy that. I was reading post after post from last week on how Deshaun Watson EXCLUSIVELY was at fault for not being able to predict, and redirect blockers where necessary during blitz packages. IT WAS ALL UP TO DESHAUN WATSON to see it and make the right call.

So now that it happened, I wont allow you to give credit to Bill OBrien for being able to pick up a blitz. That was all on Deshaun Watson.

See how that works?
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
Good take TK, thanks.

To my eyes, O'Brien didn't change the playcalling all that much. So I am pleased and impressed with how successful the offense was. Watson looked very comfortable and was finding the open receiver quite often. Maybe steelbtexan hasn't been that far off concerning the BOB offensive scheme.

Sure, there were a few wrinkles including the Hopkins to DW4 TD... but question for the board: Did you see a vastly different offensive plan than the usual? I didn't. I just saw good execution.

I hope that O'Brien and Watson can keep this momentum going. Looking forward to good things. I still hope that BOB will incorporate some middle screens and some better running plays. Hyde up the middle sometimes works, but let's run some off-tackle plays or something every now and then. Getting stuffed in the middle 10 times a game just shouldn't happen (I think). Also want to see some moving pockets (intentional, not forced!)

Here's to Bill O'Brien for a great win over "the Master." :fans:

P.S. My neighbor is sad today! :choke:
I don't know. I noticed more RB passes and the TEs got involved more in the beginning. It was a good gameplan.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Good take TK, thanks.

To my eyes, O'Brien didn't change the playcalling all that much. So I am pleased and impressed with how successful the offense was. Watson looked very comfortable and was finding the open receiver quite often. Maybe steelbtexan hasn't been that far off concerning the BOB offensive scheme.

Sure, there were a few wrinkles including the Hopkins to DW4 TD... but question for the board: Did you see a vastly different offensive plan than the usual? I didn't. I just saw good execution.

I hope that O'Brien and Watson can keep this momentum going. Looking forward to good things. I still hope that BOB will incorporate some middle screens and some better running plays. Hyde up the middle sometimes works, but let's run some off-tackle plays or something every now and then. Getting stuffed in the middle 10 times a game just shouldn't happen (I think). Also want to see some moving pockets (intentional, not forced!)

Here's to Bill O'Brien for a great win over "the Master." :fans:

P.S. My neighbor is sad today! :choke:
Playcalling never changes too much. Every game you usually see a play here or there that they may have put in specifically for this game seeing as though it is a gameplan offense. So you are correct in that regard, the playcalling didn't change & execution has always been the difference with us.......along with a healthy Fuller.

Some fans are just too simplistic in how they view things. Basically in their minds, if we score alot of points on offense, the gameplan & playcalling was excellent. If we suck, well the gameplan & playcalling sucked....The other guys on defense get paid too.
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
Playcalling never changes too much. Every game you usually see a play here or there that they may have put in specifically for this game seeing as though it is a gameplan offense. So you are correct in that regard, the playcalling didn't change & execution has always been the difference with us.......along with a healthy Fuller.

Some fans are just too simplistic in how they view things. Basically in their minds, if we score alot of points on offense, the gameplan & playcalling was excellent. If we suck, well the gameplan & playcalling sucked....The other guys on defense get paid too.
Yep, count me guilty of that. That is why I often ask for the opinions of y'all on this board to help temper my perceptions.
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
I don't know. I noticed more RB passes and the TEs got involved more in the beginning. It was a good gameplan.
Let's hope BOB and DW4 can keep things rolling like they did last night. Would still like to see this team run a successful middle screen though.

I think it would be fun if each week, BOB let the players come up with a play to use during the game. Kind of open things up some.
 

dream_team

All Pro
Playcalling never changes too much. Every game you usually see a play here or there that they may have put in specifically for this game seeing as though it is a gameplan offense. So you are correct in that regard, the playcalling didn't change & execution has always been the difference with us.......along with a healthy Fuller.

Some fans are just too simplistic in how they view things. Basically in their minds, if we score alot of points on offense, the gameplan & playcalling was excellent. If we suck, well the gameplan & playcalling sucked....The other guys on defense get paid too.
Serious question... then what is a "gameplan offense"? I thought it meant play calling & packages will differ based on the opponent?
 

BattleBull

Practice Squad
I don't know. I noticed more RB passes and the TEs got involved more in the beginning. It was a good gameplan.
It was smart. NE has poor coverage linebackers(excluding Collins) and their strength is obviously their secondary so I honestly though we just played the matchups. Get our backs and TEs out there on routes, and when they pulled Hightower and Van Noy in coverage they went to them to exploit that.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Serious question... then what is a "gameplan offense"? I thought it meant play calling & packages will differ based on the opponent?
This is correct. But most times it really just centers around formationing & personnel packages that you want to most utilize to exploit certain defensive sets and matchups of your opponents that you potentially have in your favor.........for that week. You might even adjust routes, protection schemes and qb progressions a little too just to throw off the defense. For instance, on a typical set up, DW4's 1st read may be Fuller on 1 type of play against an opponent, but against another a few weeks later, Nuk might be the 1st guy DW4 looks for on that same play....just depends on the match up & what the defense is doing.

However, the concepts you as an offense want to exploit usually don't change too much from game to game. Everyone here wonders why BoB just loves running Hyde up the middle. Well its a core offensive concept for his offense b/c running it in the middle like that has such a huge effect on the defense.....even if it is sporadic & largely not good like it is with us. It also opens up alot of his other core offensive concepts in how he likes to attack the middle & deep parts of the field in the passing game with those deep overs & square-ins b/c unless the d-line can combat the run game by themselves, the LB's have to respect that threat of the run...& DW4 typically throws right behind them when they step up.
 


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