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CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
It's O'Briens job to call plays that counteract the blitz. But he doesn't do that. He just asks the line to buy enough time for the receivers to get open on deep routes, which they usually don't
It's a little difficult to call plays for a blitz when you don't know when the blitz is going to be called. That's something that is up to Watson to read and adjust accordingly in real time. Stoerner, who admittedly "loves" Watson and his potential, today again emphasized that Watson has not used the pocket to step into it in lieu of running out of it. He noted that Watson had the tendency to run out of the pocket too quickly and continues to overlook his mid field outlets when being pressured. I think I'll take a QB's observations of a QB, especially since I see the same tendencies.
 

Max

Veteran
I agree that BOB wants to establish the run. No big surprise, every offense in the league would love to establish the run game, it opens up so much. Lately, it seems like if defenses stop the run, then our offense struggles. Even in the Jax game, our offense struggled initially, until we started breaking open some big runs.

If you look at earlier in the season, though (specifically against the Chargers & Falcons), we were able to be productive on offense, even though the run game wasn't effective. What's the difference? IMO, the pass protection has regressed and Watson is getting happy feet.
The Chargers blitz the least amount in the NFL and the Falcons have one of the worst pass defenses and both are towards the bottom for # of sacks. They're the exceptions to when we've done well without the running game working. I think we'd be a much better game plan team if we run when we can and if we stuck w/ and mastered the short passing game when the run isn't working. Keke should be our Edelman. I'm convinced if he was in NE, he could be that guy. We need to figure that out. I've given my thoughts on Duke Johnson a dozen times. No idea why he isn't more involved in the short passing game. There's just too many weapons we're not utilizing to their abilities to put our problems on player execution as opposed to scheme (not pointing that comment at you).
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
It's a little difficult to call plays for a blitz when you don't know when the blitz is going to be called. That's something that is up to Watson to read and adjust accordingly in real time. Stoerner, who admittedly "loves" Watson and his potential, today again emphasized that Watson has not used the pocket to step into it in lieu of running out of it. He noted that Watson had the tendency to run out of the pocket too quickly and continues to overlook his mid field outlets when being pressured. I think I'll take a QB's observations of a QB, especially since I see the same tendencies.
A coach absolutely draws up adjustments and hot routes in case of a blitz. If O'Brien and the receiver's aren't adjusting as you say, and leaving it all up to Watson, then that would explain a lot
 
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Earl34

Rookie
It's a little difficult to call plays for a blitz when you don't know when the blitz is going to be called. That's something that is up to Watson to read and adjust accordingly in real time. Stoerner, who admittedly "loves" Watson and his potential, today again emphasized that Watson has not used the pocket to step into it in lieu of running out of it. He noted that Watson had the tendency to run out of the pocket too quickly and continues to overlook his mid field outlets when being pressured. I think I'll take a QB's observations of a QB, especially since I see the same tendencies.
I agree with your post. However, here is a video of Brady reading the MLB, adjusting the OL to block left and still getting sack by a LB from the right. This is happening to Brady. Why are we shocked it's happening to Watson? Again, Watson has to improve, but I just feel the expectations for a kid who has barely played two NFL seasons are set ridiculously high. Especially when you watch this video and see Brady doing the exact same thing we are bashing Watson for doing.

 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Watson has played what...33-34 games as pro, basically 2 seasons. Not many QBs are finished products after 2 seasons. There are things he still needs to learn.
I don't think
Anyone is saying that Watson is supposed to be a finished product. I'm saying he needs to be better at certain things and most will agree. Some here seem to think he is their adopted son and no one should say anything negative about him. I have a friend like that. It's even worse if I try to discuss Jalen Hurts with her. She taught Jalens dad in high school so the younger is the next GOAT.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
That's fair and understandable. And since that's the case, whey don't they seem to have a backup PLAN for when Fuller eventually goes down (which is a given every season)?

Or, maybe they should have a more consistent playbook that moves the ball and brings out Fuller occasionally instead of expecting him to be an every-down WR. "Hoping" that Fuller is going to be here for 16+ games is futile based on his history.

I enjoy the big plays, but such a foundational reliance on them as a scheme seems sketchy for long term success. It's like the Astros bats and reliance on homeruns. Great when they are hitting, but seems directionless when they go cold.
Darrell while I get your point, you have to remember that every year we have been pressured by dire need position in draft picks. Fuller was a first-round draft pick now in his fourth season. No one should expect to draft a Backup for him His first two seasons. In 2018 we didn't have any pics until round 3 and backup wide receiver was not a greater need. This year's draft we could argue over the players but not over the positions cornerback and offensive line. Yes I would like to see a high draft pick for a backup for Fuller but also like to see one for Watson who is only one play away from career injury. If our corner situation for the future has been decided by Johnson, Conley and Hargreaves we still should use our second round pick for an edge rusher. I just don't see a day two pick for a backup WR.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This is happening to Brady. Why are we shocked it's happening to Watson?
I don't think it's that it is happening to Watson, it is that it is happening so frequently.

Wentz, Mahomes, Jackson... It's not happening to them nearly as often as Watson. & until Watson beats it, it's going to continue as frequently if not more.

Look, I like the kid. & I think he's the one. But this is a weakness that will be exposed, especially in the playoffs if he doesn't figure it out.

Mahomes... figured it out.

Mayfield... Not so much.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I agree with your post. However, here is a video of Brady reading the MLB, adjusting the OL to block left and still getting sack by a LB from the right. This is happening to Brady. Why are we shocked it's happening to Watson? Again, Watson has to improve, but I just feel the expectations for a kid who has barely played two NFL seasons are set ridiculously high. Especially when you watch this video and see Brady doing the exact same thing we are bashing Watson for doing.

Do we really want to look at one game and compare players at any position on one game? Please use 2019 games and compare Brady's reads of blitzes and DeShaun Watson reads. I eagerly await your results.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I didn't watch Watson alot at Clemson. A good question is how well did Watson handle the blitz in college? If he was good in college, but struggling now, then that may suggest the coaching here hasn't been adequate.

BTW, recognizing blitzes and handling the blitz are two different things. And it's a whole team effort, not just all on DW4.
No, Recognizing the blitz is solely on the QB. The way a blitz is handled is again on the QB. Both of these should happen before the ball is snapped. The QB should call another play, call timeout or hope his line and RB recognizes the blitz also before the snap. IMO, Watson goes with the third way too often.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I can tell you one poster thinks so. Someone already thinks DW won't improve, won't ever win a SB, and is ready to let him go.
Maybe so but my question to you is why does one person impact you so much? If only one person ever disagreed with me on any of my positions I'd run for president... No no I wouldn't. Lol
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I can tell you one poster thinks so. Someone already thinks DW won't improve, won't ever win a SB, and is ready to let him go.
Maybe so but my question to you is why does one person impact you so much? If only one person ever disagreed with me on any of my positions I'd run for president... No no I wouldn't. Lol
 

Earl34

Rookie
Do we really want to look at one game and compare players at any position on one game? Please use 2019 games and compare Brady's reads of blitzes and DeShaun Watson reads. I eagerly await your results.
I already posted this.....See Brady's and Watson's performance against the blitz. I eagerly await your response.

https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/11/2/20943679/who-should-you-not-blitz

 

dream_team

All Pro
Maybe so but my question to you is why does one person impact you so much? If only one person ever disagreed with me on any of my positions I'd run for president... No no I wouldn't. Lol
One person doesn't. I easily take any of his input with a grain of salt. I was simply responding to your comment that no one thinks he's a finish product.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I already posted this.....See Brady's and Watson's performance against the blitz. I eagerly await your response.

https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/11/2/20943679/who-should-you-not-blitz

Thanks! Brady beats Watson in every stat but much lower in completion percentage yet only one % lower in rating...seems incorrect somehow?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
One person doesn't. I easily take any of his input with a grain of salt. I was simply responding to your comment that no one thinks he's a finish product.
I'm not going to speak for Steel but I don't think his position is Watson is a finished product but should be further along in his third season.
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
I don’t even have to look at the members name to know who made the comments in this thread.

I’ve changed my position on O’Brien once. And it had nothing to do with his attitude and in all honesty I still like O’Brien the man, what I know of him.

I may jump back on the O’Brien (the HC) bandwagon, but it will take a lot. So far, I see a little better from the play calling, but will it last? If this new offensive philosophy of O’Brien’s hits a speed bump, I fear he’ll resort back to his old ways.

If they beat up on a depleted team in a wildcard game, that’s not good enough for me. They need to prove they belong in the postseason, O’Brien needs to prove he belongs.

Lastly, these lapses in discipline need to be coached out of the team. No more not reporting as eligible, or a punter dancing around in the back of the end zone. It’s situational football that should have been ironed out during practices.
If he resorts back to the old bad play calling, that's recidivism. It probably means he's calling his own plays again. I'm of the school that believes most plays should be called by the QB. That's how we used to do it. The coach would send in a play occasionally, but most plays were called on the field.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I agree with your post. However, here is a video of Brady reading the MLB, adjusting the OL to block left and still getting sack by a LB from the right. This is happening to Brady. Why are we shocked it's happening to Watson? Again, Watson has to improve, but I just feel the expectations for a kid who has barely played two NFL seasons are set ridiculously high. Especially when you watch this video and see Brady doing the exact same thing we are bashing Watson for doing.

The difference is how often you see it with Brady vs Watson. The latter shows a continued negative pattern.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I don't think
Anyone is saying that Watson is supposed to be a finished product. I'm saying he needs to be better at certain things and most will agree. Some here seem to think he is their adopted son and no one should say anything negative about him. I have a friend like that. It's even worse if I try to discuss Jalen Hurts with her. She taught Jalens dad in high school so the younger is the next GOAT.
We tend to agree....:backsout:


Sorry...I couldn't resist.
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
Good talk in this thread the last few days. We'll have the Texan's problems solved in no time at this rate. Happy Thanksgiving all. Gotta get the smoker going for the turkey.
Agreed.

Mine is just about up to temp, ready for the turkey to go in in a few minutes. And pork ribs, yum!
 
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Texansphan

All Pro
I don't think it's that it is happening to Watson, it is that it is happening so frequently.

Wentz, Mahomes, Jackson... It's not happening to them nearly as often as Watson. & until Watson beats it, it's going to continue as frequently if not more.

Look, I like the kid. & I think he's the one. But this is a weakness that will be exposed, especially in the playoffs if he doesn't figure it out.

Mahomes... figured it out.

Mayfield... Not so much.
Is it my imagination or is there an exceptional amount of talented pass rushers in the league?
Seems that almost every week we face a decent pass rush - there is just no letup.
Regardless, Watson has improved on picking up the blitz but needs to really keep up the work.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
All this talk about Watson not picking up the blitz, etc. While I agree he has to get better at it, and he will, how much blame should the OL get? If any.
Hard to say as we don't know what Watson is telling them at the line.

But when BO'b continues to remind us that QB protection is about more than the OL it leads me to believe they don't deserve a lot of the blame they've been credited.

As you watch, keep in mind it is hard to protect a guy who doesn't want to stay in the pocket.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Is it my imagination or is there an exceptional amount of talented pass rushers in the league?
Seems that almost every week we face a decent pass rush - there is just no letup.
Regardless, Watson has improved on picking up the blitz but needs to really keep up the work.
I think we do fine against 4 man rushes, even the very talented ones. It's the blitzing defenses that give us a problem.

Even though Indy only rushed three on 3rd & long, they showed blitz & I think that got to Watson. Again & again & again.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
I think we do fine against 4 man rushes, even the very talented ones. It's the blitzing defenses that give us a problem.

Even though Indy only rushed three on 3rd & long, they showed blitz & I think that got to Watson. Again & again & again.
I've noticed this against other teams as well.
The coaching staff needs to coach him up on countermeasures.
 

dream_team

All Pro
I think we do fine against 4 man rushes, even the very talented ones. It's the blitzing defenses that give us a problem.

Even though Indy only rushed three on 3rd & long, they showed blitz & I think that got to Watson. Again & again & again.
Against the Ravens, the OL struggled against their 4 man rush. The same with the Panthers game.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
All this talk about Watson not picking up the blitz, etc. While I agree he has to get better at it, and he will, how much blame should the OL get? If any.

Hope your turkeys are covered in the right amount of smoke guys! Happy Thanksgiving
The Oline responsibility is to complete initial assignment then if successful assist teammate and/or move to secondary level. If unsuccessful, scream "run Forrest, run at top of lungs". Listening to QB for possible changes in original call is part of it but adrenalin, crowd noise {even at home} and focusing on adjustment(s) of opponent is part of it. All pre-snap.

Once ball is snapped then all players even TEs and receivers are expected to protect the QB first and then the ball but your QB must prepare the offense by understanding the blitz just as he should for recognizing defenders in or out of the box; safety dropping or closing to LOS; how many defenders on which WR and LBs activity but all of this is before the snap.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
One person doesn't. I easily take any of his input with a grain of salt. I was simply responding to your comment that no one thinks he's a finish product.
There is a big difference between being a finished product and me not thinking he's going to evolve into a SB winning.level QB.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I didn't watch Watson alot at Clemson. A good question is how well did Watson handle the blitz in college? If he was good in college, but struggling now, then that may suggest the coaching here hasn't been adequate.

BTW, recognizing blitzes and handling the blitz are two different things. And it's a whole team effort, not just all on DW4.
College teams don’t blitz much.
That said, Watson was able to get the ball off very quickly for many reasons (good scheme, good receivers).
He often didn’t need to hold the ball too long.

It was one of the things I had said from the get go that I think Watson would need to learn to be a great QB: learning to play with his head rather than depending on his great talent.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
There is a big difference between being a finished product and me not thinking he's going to evolve into a SB winning.level QB.
......I thought you were referencing OB and then I realized you was talking about Watson. My guess, I think Watson plays in a AFCCG before OB coaches in one.

By the way, hope you and your family are enjoying a great Turkey Day. It's almost 0100 and the wife is in bed allowing me to enjoy the game. Big meal kicking in and will probably hit the sack soon. Second empty nest Turkey Day here in Italy......it sucks. We really miss hanging out with family and friends.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
......I thought you were referencing OB and then I realized you was talking about Watson. My guess, I think Watson plays in a AFCCG before OB coaches in one.

By the way, hope you and your family are enjoying a great Turkey Day. It's almost 0100 and the wife is in bed allowing me to enjoy the game. Big meal kicking in and will probably hit the sack soon. Second empty nest Turkey Day here in Italy......it sucks. We really miss hanging out with family and friends.
Watson is capable of carrying OB to one. LOL
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
College teams don’t blitz much.
That said, Watson was able to get the ball off very quickly for many reasons (good scheme, good receivers).
He often didn’t need to hold the ball too long.

It was one of the things I had said from the get go that I think Watson would need to learn to be a great QB: learning to play with his head rather than depending on his great talent.
I don't think either of them will get to the AFCCG and almost assuredly not as a duo. I would love to be wrong.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I didn't watch Watson alot at Clemson. A good question is how well did Watson handle the blitz in college? If he was good in college, but struggling now, then that may suggest the coaching here hasn't been adequate.

BTW, recognizing blitzes and handling the blitz are two different things. And it's a whole team effort, not just all on DW4.

First game against Bama.
I saw about 5 blitzes and a couple of zone dogs.

Watson didn’t have any problem with it all.
But like I said, it was due to the factors that I had mentioned.
Clemson has a good scheme with good players that are well-coached.
They picked up the blitzes pretty well or Watson get out of it quickly with either a pass or a run.

...

He saw maybe a couple more blitzes in the rematch with the same results.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame

First game against Bama.
I saw about 5 blitzes and a couple of zone dogs.

Watson didn’t have any problem with it all.
But like I said, it was due to the factors that I had mentioned.
Clemson has a good scheme with good players that are well-coached.
They picked up the blitzes pretty well or Watson get out of it quickly with either a pass or a run.

...

He saw maybe a couple more blitzes in the rematch with the same results.
Clemson ain't the NFL
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Not if u look at completion percentage. Watson has a MUCH better percentage.
Totally different league , barely the same game.

Compare the worst QB's completion percentages to those of HOFers from the past .... the rules changes have really had an impact on that.

Joe Montana - The Gold Standard .... career completion percentage of 63.2
Mitchell Trubisky Maybe the worst starting QB in the league right now 63.1
Case Keenum 62.5
Baker Mayfield 62.3
Deshaun Watson 67.3


Comparing guys from the way back machine to today is comparing apples to oranges.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I agree with your post. However, here is a video of Brady reading the MLB, adjusting the OL to block left and still getting sack by a LB from the right. This is happening to Brady. Why are we shocked it's happening to Watson? Again, Watson has to improve, but I just feel the expectations for a kid who has barely played two NFL seasons are set ridiculously high. Especially when you watch this video and see Brady doing the exact same thing we are bashing Watson for doing.


Great find. I was going to say something but I'm gonna keep it to myself. I just know some people are more critical when it comes to Watson as you can see. Disclaimer: and vice versa.

Quick question because I seen a response saying it is happening to Watson more often than Brady. So are we comparing Watson to Bradys first three seasons in the NFL. Because I'm pretty sure Brady wasn't a master of picking up the blitz back then. It's not fair to compare the two knowing Brady has mastered his craft since his first let's say five years.
 
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ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Quick question because I seen a response saying it is happening to Watson more often than Brady. So are we comparing Watson to Bradys first three seasons in the NFL. Because I'm pretty sure Brady wasn't a master of picking up the blitz back then. It's not fair to compare the two knowing Brady has mastered his craft since his first let's say five years.
Brady wasn't the focus of the offense his first three years. It was the running game with Antowain Smith and Kevin Faulk.
And he had Charlie Weis (good OC/bad HC) running the offense. And they had a top 10 defense to minimize damage from mistakes

You can't compare the situations (except in contrast) because this Texans team isn't that solid. Not right now.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Quick question because I seen a response saying it is happening to Watson more often than Brady. So are we comparing Watson to Bradys first three seasons in the NFL. Because I'm pretty sure Brady wasn't a master of picking up the blitz back then.
No. It's just the way the conversation devolved. I think it is an issue that Watson struggles as much as he does against the blitz. It's why we're not competitive with Baltimore, why we barely beat the Colts.

Someone mentioned it happens to Brady, that he'll misread or fail to recognize a blitz. Of course that happens to everyone, it's why defenses do it. But it's rare to affect him an entire game.

When Watson gets it figured out, he'll win more than he don't. But until then, he'll get blitzed more often than other QBs.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
No. It's just the way the conversation devolved. I think it is an issue that Watson struggles as much as he does against the blitz. It's why we're not competitive with Baltimore, why we barely beat the Colts.

Someone mentioned it happens to Brady, that he'll misread or fail to recognize a blitz. Of course that happens to everyone, it's why defenses do it. But it's rare to affect him an entire game.

When Watson gets it figured out, he'll win more than he don't. But until then, he'll get blitzed more often than other QBs.
The real question is whether Watson will figure it out.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Brady wasn't the focus of the offense his first three years. It was the running game with Antowain Smith and Kevin Faulk.
And he had Charlie Weis (good OC/bad HC) running the offense. And they had a top 10 defense to minimize damage from mistakes

You can't compare the situations (except in contrast) because this Texans team isn't that solid. Not right now.
During this time Brady managed to take his teams to GW FG's in the AFCCG/SB.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
No. It's just the way the conversation devolved. I think it is an issue that Watson struggles as much as he does against the blitz. It's why we're not competitive with Baltimore, why we barely beat the Colts.

Someone mentioned it happens to Brady, that he'll misread or fail to recognize a blitz. Of course that happens to everyone, it's why defenses do it. But it's rare to affect him an entire game.

When Watson gets it figured out, he'll win more than he don't. But until then, he'll get blitzed more often than other QBs.

But the thing is Watson is top 4 in beating the blitz. Against the Ravens the offensive line played very poorly. They were getting beat by stunts and four man rushes. Against the Colts only one blitz got to him. The offensive line overall played bad too. No way a three man rush should put any real pressure on our QB. And Finally, the play calling in those two games were terrible.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
No. It's just the way the conversation devolved. I think it is an issue that Watson struggles as much as he does against the blitz. It's why we're not competitive with Baltimore, why we barely beat the Colts.

Someone mentioned it happens to Brady, that he'll misread or fail to recognize a blitz. Of course that happens to everyone, it's why defenses do it. But it's rare to affect him an entire game.

When Watson gets it figured out, he'll win more than he don't. But until then, he'll get blitzed more often than other QBs.
On the limited games I've been able to watch......it's a shame when your own linemen get used to put pressure on Watson. I've seen many occasions where linemen were pushed back so quick that they were on top of Watson before he even got chance to look at his first progression. Last I checked, the Texans don't have a single receiver who's clocked a 1.1 - 40. Also, heaving the ball for the sake of not absorbing a sack.....leads to intentional grounding penalties and stupid interceptions.

Sure Watson could stand to get better at picking up the blitz, but so could OB and Devlin b/c from the looks of it, the OL has almost no idea of what to do in the face of a blitz. How many times are coaches huddled around Watson when he fells to see the quick hit option versus waiting on the long developing route called when teams are dialing up blitz packages? I usually see Watson with an iPad in his hand looking at the plays after a series.

Scheming to expose the blitz doesn't include running plays into the gut of the blitz. Worth the price of admission, watching OB whirl around and slap his leg with the menu like he's completely baffled that the play called, not only didn't work but was stuffed for a loss. 2nd and 3rd and longs against the Patriots defense will make this a long a game.
 
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