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Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Then BOB changed the offense to play to Watson's strengths and you still hate him? SMH

Nope , I'm wondering why he didn't do that sooner …. It was painfully obvious for all to see that what he was asking Watson to do wasn't getting the best out of his QB.

And I'm kinda waiting for the other shoe to drop - OB to go back to "his offense" instead of what works for Watson.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
While I tentatively agree with this at what point do you decide that a change is needed? Is it a magic number of years?

We gave D. Capers 4 seasons with no playoff appearances.
G. Kubiak got 7 & change with 2 playoff wins.

If we are sitting here at the end of 6 years with still only 1 post season win will that be enough or should we give him more time.

For me if we aren't at least competitive in a divisional playoff game (not a wildcard game) then I have had enough and want a change.
4 yrs of RS shouldn't be held against BOB.

Look at the progress that's been made building the roster.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Right now he's a poor man's Marty Schottenheimer. . .without the conference championship appearances. Marty had some great regular season teams. Matter of fact, he's 200-126 in the regular season. Impressive!

But, in a results driven business, all that really matters is postseason wins. In 21 seasons, Marty is 5-13.

And that's what Billy's 1-3 record says to me. Prove otherwise and I'll believe. Respect is earned.
Scottenheimer had the more talented team in the playoffs several times and lost.

Tell me when have the BOB lead Texans had the more talented team and lost in the playoffs?

That's changing this yr because the team is as talented as any team in the AFC. However they dont have the experience to get to a SB this yr. IMHO
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Nope , I'm wondering why he didn't do that sooner …. It was painfully obvious for all to see that what he was asking Watson to do wasn't getting the best out of his QB.

And I'm kinda waiting for the other shoe to drop - OB to go back to "his offense" instead of what works for Watson.
Last yr he was dealing with a QB that was coming off of an ACL and then suffered a broken ribs/punctured lung.

This yr he expected Watson to have a better grasp on the offense and make quicker decisions/find open guys better than he did last yr. That didn't happen, so BOB changed the offense after the Carolina game.

The reason he didn't change it before then is Watson played well at times in the old offense in the 1st 2 games against the Saints/Chargers. After Watson struggled against the Jags/Panthers he said screw it and changed the offense. Which is what we were all calling for and you would think everybody would be happy. But apparently that's not ever going to happen.

I'm going to start a thread soon asking the question why do people hate BOB, soon. Plenty of posters have admitted they just dont like the guy and I wonder why? He's done about as good as a HC could do with a beat up team that had terrible OL issues and no WR's other than Hopkins at the end of last yr.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
What did BOB do to make you hate him and that goes for the rest of this MB too? This is yr 2 without the anvil that was RS and surely you can see the progress that's been made. Or are you one of those guys that buries your head in the sand because he doesn't want to admit that he could be wrong?
This year he is starting to do things that I like. He's been doing things I don't like for five years.

Part of being a good HC is just like any other position. Your job, my job... everybody's job. You've got to be able to work with people. It seems that it is difficult to find people BO'b can work with. Even guys he hand picked get tossed with less than 18 months on the job.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This yr he expected Watson to have a better grasp on the offense and make quicker decisions/find open guys better than he did last yr. That didn't happen, so BOB changed the offense after the Carolina game.

The reason he didn't change it before then is Watson played well at times in the old offense in the 1st 2 games against the Saints/Chargers. After Watson struggled against the Jags/Panthers he said screw it and changed the offense.
Good point. That makes sense. Maybe I have been unfair to Bill O'Brien. Thank you Steelbtexan for opening my eyes & helping me see the truth.

Pretty good actually that it only took him six games to see what the rest of us saw. I mean if he had access to watch Watson practice since June or something, maybe he could have identified the weak areas earlier. You know if he actually has meetings with him discussing what went wrong the last game & the game plan for the upcoming game maybe he should have understood what his QB could & could not do & it still took six games to see what we see then we're wasting our time with this clown & there's no way he's going to help elevate Watson to be the best player he could be.

But yeah. Rick Smith did it.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Good point. That makes sense. Maybe I have been unfair to Bill O'Brien. Thank you Steelbtexan for opening my eyes & helping me see the truth.

Pretty good actually that it only took him six games to see what the rest of us saw. I mean if he had access to watch Watson practice since June or something, maybe he could have identified the weak areas earlier. You know if he actually has meetings with him discussing what went wrong the last game & the game plan for the upcoming game maybe he should have understood what his QB could & could not do & it still took six games to see what we see then we're wasting our time with this clown & there's no way he's going to help elevate Watson to be the best player he could be.

But yeah. Rick Smith did it.
It actually took 4 games before he changed the offense. He thought after the 1st 2 games Watson was making progress. Then realized it wasn't going to happen. I mean even in the Panthers game Watson missed 3 long passes. I could see BOB saying he's learning and he will hit those passes and learn the offense better as he gets more experience.

I disagreed with him learning that offense and said he had accuracy issues.

It's human nature for a teacher to want to try to teach his pupil something new. Luckily BOB gave up on that pretty quickly and moved on. BTW, I think Watson could've learned the old offense and been above avg. but you cant win a Lombardi with him running that offense. With the new offense you can win a Lombardi once Watson gets some experience along with the new OL if Watson can stay healthy.

Why did BOB wait to put in the new offense? He was trying to keep Watson healthy.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Rick Smith gave OB DW4

Just sayin.....

OB can never shake that when he covers all the deficiencies
Yes he did, too bad BOB wanted Mahomes. Mahomes fits the offense BOB wants to run better than Watson does. Why do you think that warroom pic is out there. But you've got o give BOB credit, he adjusted his offense to fit Watson's skillset.

As far as RS goes, it was about time, it only took him a decade to invest in the QB position.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
This year he is starting to do things that I like. He's been doing things I don't like for five years.

Part of being a good HC is just like any other position. Your job, my job... everybody's job. You've got to be able to work with people. It seems that it is difficult to find people BO'b can work with. Even guys he hand picked get tossed with less than 18 months on the job.
He was trying to protect Watson from injury. I mean the man was playing with a punctured lung.



The yr before he tore his ACL in this offense and BOB wanted him to run an offense that he would lessen his chance of injury.

BTW, you didn't answer what you hate about BOB.

It's like you hate him personally.
 
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thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
It actually took 4 games before he changed the offense. He thought after the 1st 2 games Watson was making progress. Then realized it wasn't going to happen.
Did he say that on the Bill O'Brien Show, or in the Chronicle?
Why did BOB wait to put in the new offense? He was trying to keep Watson healthy.
You got BO'b on speed dial?
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Rick Smith gave OB DW4

Just sayin.....

OB can never shake that when he covers all the deficiencies

Only technically.

Tricky Rick didn't want to draft a QB at all.

It was a mandate from Bob McNair that gave OB DW4.

I quote - "Go Get Me A Damn Quarterback - I don't want to hear anymore excuses"
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
BTW, you didn't answer what you hate about BOB.

It's like you hate him personally.
I've answered this question twice before, for you. This is the third time.

I didn't like his college coaching attitude he brought with him the first couple of years. I didn't like the, "I'm going to show you how to win." Attitude he had. We had been to the playoffs three times before he got here. He was supposed to take us to the next level. We ended up with a 6 year rebuild & we're currently in year two.

I don't see any evidence that he has ever installed an offensive system any where. This is his first.

I don't think he coaches the players he's given. I think the game is still too fast for him.

I hate that he gets flustered when reporters ask him questions.

I don't think he's a good communicator. & I don't think he's as smart as he let's on.

But last year I think I recognized a little toughness in this team & I attribute that all to BO'b. A toughness this team severely lacked. True Grit. & it appears to be growing this year. If we find ourselves in a "win out to earn the two seed" situation I think we'll win out & win the two seed. That kind of toughness.

& if we do, I'll like him a little more. But right now, I don't.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Did he say that on the Bill O'Brien Show, or in the Chronicle?


You got BO'b on speed dial?
Makes perfect sense

You can think otherwise if you wish, I just know with Watson coming off of the ACL the offense was different than it was before the ACL and different than it is now. You can speculate as to why if you wish.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I've answered this question twice before, for you. This is the third time.

I didn't like his college coaching attitude he brought with him the first couple of years. I didn't like the, "I'm going to show you how to win." Attitude he had. We had been to the playoffs three times before he got here. He was supposed to take us to the next level. We ended up with a 6 year rebuild & we're currently in year two.

I don't see any evidence that he has ever installed an offensive system any where. This is his first.

I don't think he coaches the players he's given. I think the game is still too fast for him.

I hate that he gets flustered when reporters ask him questions.

I don't think he's a good communicator. & I don't think he's as smart as he let's on.

But last year I think I recognized a little toughness in this team & I attribute that all to BO'b. A toughness this team severely lacked. True Grit. & it appears to be growing this year. If we find ourselves in a "win out to earn the two seed" situation I think we'll win out & win the two seed. That kind of toughness.

& if we do, I'll like him a little more. But right now, I don't.
So you dont like his personality. You dont like how he treats the media, I love how he treats the media, ask a stupid question at your own risk. Of course I dont let the media influence my decisions.

He did a good job coaching what RS gave him and that's why he's still here. *Feel free to disagree but he wouldn't be here if you were correct.) You dont like the progress that's been made in the last 2 yrs personnel wise.

He's a good communicator, there's no way a team would play as hard as they do for him as they do if he was a bad communicator. A bad communicator doesn't lead his team to 11 wins after an 0-3 start regardless of SOS.

The toughness is directly related to the upgrades in talent since BOB took over.

I too dont think he's as smart as he thinks he is. Otherwise the TO/Challenges wouldn't be such an issue.
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
So you dont like his personality. You dont like how he treats the media, I love how he treats the media, ask a stupid question at your own risk. Of course I dont let the media influence my decisions.

He did a good job coaching what RS gave him and that's why he's still here. *Feel free to disagree but he wouldn't be here if you were correct.) You dont like the progress that's been made in the last 2 yrs personnel wise.

He's a good communicator, there's no way a team would play as hard as they do for him as they do if he was a bad communicator. A bad communicator doesn't lead his team to 11 wins after an 0-3 start regardless of SOS.

The toughness is directly related to the upgrades in talent since BOB took over.

I too dont think he's as smart as he thinks he is. Otherwise the TO/Challenges wouldn't be such an issue.
I know when your talking about rebuilds you mean pre and post rick Smith. We agree on his effect on the team.

My concern is his (ob's) game and time management. It hasn't gotten better since year one. Add challenges to that as well.

I do see progress on offense. On defense the clowney debacle was horribly mismanaged.

To me, he's roughly a .500 coach.

I want results. I want an AFC championship game. Anything short of that and I have doubts about the merit in retaining him.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I know when your talking about rebuilds you mean pre and post rick Smith. We agree on his effect on the team.

My concern is his (ob's) game and time management. It hasn't gotten better since year one. Add challenges to that as well.

I do see progress on offense. On defense the clowney debacle was horribly mismanaged.

To me, he's roughly a .500 coach.

I want results. I want an AFC championship game. Anything short of that and I have doubts about the merit in retaining him.
A good synopsis of his weaknesses. Hopefully he hires somebody to strictly help him with Clock mgmt/TO's/Challenges.

They aren't ready for an AFCCG appearance. Gotta get experience. They do need to win a playoff game.

I agree BOB's been an avg HC so far. But lets see what he can do when the vision/direction of the team is clearly in his hands.

Atleast you didn't use the he's mean to the media card, or he's not a leader, when the team clearly plays hard for him.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You dont like how he treats the media, I love how he treats the media, ask a stupid question at your own risk
I could care less how he treats the media. My concern is his lack of self control. He lets them get under his skin & it shows.


He's a good communicator, there's no way a team would play as hard as they do for him as they do if he was a bad communicator.
If he were a good communicator then there would be more evidence of people working with him & him getting what he wants. That's not what we see. Even his hand picked GM couldn't understand what he was asking for. None of the QBs have understood what he's trying to communicate to the team. Not even Watson. So we have him "simplifying" his offense.


The toughness is directly related to the upgrades in talent since BOB took over.
I specifically mentioned I saw the toughness take root last year, before he "took over"
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I could care less how he treats the media. My concern is his lack of self control. He lets them get under his skin & it shows.

If he were a good communicator then there would be more evidence of people working with him & him getting what he wants. That's not what we see. Even his hand picked GM couldn't understand what he was asking for. None of the QBs have understood what he's trying to communicate to the team. Not even Watson. So we have him "simplifying" his offense.
THIS^^^
couldn't have said it better....


...I'm trying not to go off....
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Not what i'm saying at all, but since you brought it up, yes exactly & this should be the only benchmark he has to meet b/c as a HC, this is where you earn your money & power...in the playoffs.

Aside from that, it is my firm belief that when he is fired, this will be why; He simply has to get us over the hump in the next few years to the AFCCG/SB.

All these artificial benchmarks people keep setting only to move the goal post to some other benchmark are leading to 1 benchmark that matters: a deep run in the playoffs.
It hasn't got jack to do with moving goal posts. OB's record against better teams is what it is. Improving on that record only gives fans a better feeling of how they'll handle playoff games, which is the ultimate goal. *edit- winning playoff games, not how the fans feel.

He had a 9 game winning streak last year and very few had confidence they'd do anything in the playoffs, BECAUSE HE DOESN'T BEAT GOOD TEAMS. And sure enough and once again.

They go 3-0 the next 3 weeks and it doesn't mean jack about a game in January, but it does give you a little more confidence that maybe they'll be able to finally get something done. Nothing more, nothing less.

They go 0-3, 1-2, and the confidence level remains rock bottom because it's what we'll have seen for a 6th straight year. Rolling up the W's against average to below, and getting thumped by the better. They could go 0-3, 1-2 in these next 3 games and still win 10, 11 games, and the masses will still have no confidence they'll do anything in January BECAUSE HE DOESN'T BEAT GOOD TEAMS.

The history is there. And it's not just a small sample size. It ain't about your weak ass goal post moving argument. It's about taking forward steps and getting this franchise past the point they've been stuck at for forever.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I could care less how he treats the media. My concern is his lack of self control. He lets them get under his skin & it shows.




If he were a good communicator then there would be more evidence of people working with him & him getting what he wants. That's not what we see. Even his hand picked GM couldn't understand what he was asking for. None of the QBs have understood what he's trying to communicate to the team. Not even Watson. So we have him "simplifying" his offense.




I specifically mentioned I saw the toughness take root last year, before he "took over"
1. That's not what you typed. I dont think they get under his skin. Does the media get under Belichick's skin. You dont understand or maybe it's like his northestern mentality. You've gotta get over this.

2. Gaine wasn't his handpicked GM. He was the McNair's handpicked GM. Now if Caserio becomes GM that will be BOB/Easterby's handpicked GM and that's an improvement that Cal's letting his football people make these decisions. He's letting them do their jobs in carrying out his vision. BOB hasn't had a QB until Watson. He has done a good job developing Watson IMHO. Watson has played the equivalent of 2 seasons so far and is an MVP candidate. He changed his offense to fit Watson's skillset. That's about listening to Kelly/Watson and making a change for the better. I would call this pretty good at communicating.

3. They were a tough team last yr. They're a more talented tough team this yr.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Whoever the next and new GM is I want him/her to be picked solely by Cal/ownership, don't want O'Brien or anybody else to
have anything to do in the selction process with who the McNairs hire as their GM to report directly and only to them.
 

Earl34

Rookie
Whoever the next and new GM is I want him/her to be picked solely by Cal/ownership, don't want O'Brien or anybody else to
have anything to do in the selction process with who the McNairs hire as their GM to report directly and only to them.
It's rare that .500 coaches get so much control of an NFL franchise. However, according to some posters, O'Brien can only be successful when he has full control of personnel decisions and I guess input on the next GM. Hopefully, Cal does not hold that same belief..
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
It hasn't got jack to do with moving goal posts. OB's record against better teams is what it is. Improving on that record only gives fans a better feeling of how they'll handle playoff games, which is the ultimate goal. *edit- winning playoff games, not how the fans feel.

He had a 9 game winning streak last year and very few had confidence they'd do anything in the playoffs, BECAUSE HE DOESN'T BEAT GOOD TEAMS. And sure enough and once again.

They go 3-0 the next 3 weeks and it doesn't mean jack about a game in January, but it does give you a little more confidence that maybe they'll be able to finally get something done. Nothing more, nothing less.

They go 0-3, 1-2, and the confidence level remains rock bottom because it's what we'll have seen for a 6th straight year. Rolling up the W's against average to below, and getting thumped by the better. They could go 0-3, 1-2 in these next 3 games and still win 10, 11 games, and the masses will still have no confidence they'll do anything in January BECAUSE HE DOESN'T BEAT GOOD TEAMS.

The history is there. And it's not just a small sample size. It ain't about your weak ass goal post moving argument. It's about taking forward steps and getting this franchise past the point they've been stuck at for forever.
Your entire argument is weak considering you're lumping in the 1st few years in which this team wasn't beating anyone of note b/c we didn't have a qb......Don't care who was the HC we weren't going to beat the better teams b/c the talent wasn't there. And its shocking.....shocking i tell you that a HC has a losing record against good teams without a solid qb or in BoB's case, in a year he lost his pro bowl qb for the season.:sarcasm:. Last year with his qb back for 16 games and reasonably healthy though? We went 3-2 against teams 9-7 or better...should've been 4-2 if the defense holds Philly. Do playoff teams count as good teams in your book b/c every one of those teams we beat last year were. This year? we are currently 2-2....against teams above .500....Again, Should be 3-2 if the defense holds against NO. The only game you can say we were totally outplayed/outcoached against a good team was Carolina...which happens from time to time even to the best HC's....see Pats vs. Ravens just last week.

But by all means, continue to set up these artifical benchmarks and move the goal post so that you can save face & be proven "right" later when he is fired.

Reality of it is, you guys are so entrenched with your narrative & think someone else can do better, you don't understand that it ain't that simple & BoB is a pretty good coach.

This guy was NFC coach of the year just last year. Check out his record against good teams this year since Trubisky has **** the bed. Check out some of the things fans are saying about him..Sound familiar? Hard to believe this guy forgot how to do his thing on offense in just 1 year. https://www.chicitysports.com/forum/index.php?threads/fire-ryan-pace-and-mattnagy.74006/
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
While I tentatively agree with this at what point do you decide that a change is needed? Is it a magic number of years?

We gave D. Capers 4 seasons with no playoff appearances.
G. Kubiak got 7 & change with 2 playoff wins.

If we are sitting here at the end of 6 years with still only 1 post season win will that be enough or should we give him more time.

For me if we aren't at least competitive in a divisional playoff game (not a wildcard game) then I have had enough and want a change.
Kinda the point i've been making. BoB should only be judged by what happens in the playoffs. Aside from that, BoB has backed himself in a corner with the moves he's made in the offseason & the talent is now there. He has to win at least 1 playoff game this year.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
That's not what you typed. I dont think they get under his skin. Does the media get under Belichick's skin. You dont understand or maybe it's like his northestern mentality. You've gotta get over this.
If you watch Belichick then watch O'Brien & think they handle the media similarly, this conversation is over.

BO'b is more like Denny Green in Arizona, or Singeltary with the 49ers. Belichick is toying with the media, he's two steps ahead of them & controls the conversation.


BOB hasn't had a QB until Watson. He has done a good job developing Watson IMHO.
Watson would do better with a better coach. He'd beat teams with winning records. He'd be the next Steve Young & not the next Phillip Rivers, Matt Stafford, Carson Palmer.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
If you watch Belichick then watch O'Brien & think they handle the media similarly, this conversation is over.

BO'b is more like Denny Green in Arizona, or Singeltary with the 49ers. Belichick is toying with the media, he's two steps ahead of them & controls the conversation.




Watson would do better with a better coach. He'd beat teams with winning records. He'd be the next Steve Young & not the next Phillip Rivers, Matt Stafford, Carson Palmer.
Really?


He may be the next Young if he keeps learning his craft and can stay healthy. If Watson gets hurt I'm sure that will be BOB's fault too, even though this is the offense everybody including myself has been clamoring for.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
If you watch Belichick then watch O'Brien & think they handle the media similarly, this conversation is over.

BO'b is more like Denny Green in Arizona, or Singeltary with the 49ers. Belichick is toying with the media, he's two steps ahead of them & controls the conversation.




Watson would do better with a better coach. He'd beat teams with winning records. He'd be the next Steve Young & not the next Phillip Rivers, Matt Stafford, Carson Palmer.
"Better Coach". I love this theory. Where are these "better" coaches? What qualifies as a "better coach"? Supposedly, Andy Reid is a better coach. Ok, O'Brien outcoached him in the recent meeting. Sean Payton (yes, has won a Super Bowl...and playoff success)? It took a bad D call by RAC and a blown coverage by Colvin to beat B'OB in game 1. I don't think he outcoached B'OB. Bellichick is the only coach that is head and shoulder better in the NFL. There are others with more success, but all have flaws. This mythical "better" head coach that will solve All the Texans issues....is where?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
That's what he gets for listening to the fans.
He's not listening to the fans, he's just trying to put the team in the best position possible to win games.

With guys like you and how you frame the conversation he cant win in your eyes.

I bet if he wins a SB there will still be posters that complain about how he accomplished that goal.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
"Better Coach". I love this theory. Where are these "better" coaches? What qualifies as a "better coach"? Supposedly, Andy Reid is a better coach. Ok, O'Brien outcoached him in the recent meeting. Sean Payton (yes, has won a Super Bowl...and playoff success)? It took a bad D call by RAC and a blown coverage by Colvin to beat B'OB in game 1. I don't think he outcoached B'OB. Bellichick is the only coach that is head and shoulder better in the NFL. There are others with more success, but all have flaws. This mythical "better" head coach that will solve All the Texans issues....is where?
Any coach or team can have a good day here and there. Belichick, Reid, Payton and Carroll have proven that they can get better results, with more consistency than OB. I'm willing to see how the Texans do in the three game stretch after the bye. They should be mostly healthy, so let's see if they come out and go 9-3 or do they end up 6-6?If they get to 9-3, I'm willing to rethink my stance on OB. If they end up 6-6, I'm going to think my opinion of OB, as an NFL HC, has been confirmed.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Any coach or team can have a good day here and there. Belichick, Reid, Payton and Carroll have proven that they can get better results, with more consistency than OB. I'm willing to see how the Texans do in the three game stretch after the bye. They should be mostly healthy, so let's see if they come out and go 9-3 or do they end up 6-6?If they get to 9-3, I'm willing to rethink my stance on OB. If they end up 6-6, I'm going to think my opinion of OB, as an NFL HC, has been confirmed.
Fair enough,

I predict they go 2-1 and posters will be wanting to fire him for the loss.

BOB really hasn't called a bad game this yr other than the Raiders game. The Carolina game wasn't great but there were plays there to be made that didn't get made.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
How funny is it that Watson keeps being painted as “not grasping” OBriens “offense” so I ask this ... what exactly is OBriens offense? It has been horrible UNTIL Watson arrived and STILL somehow this team doesn’t reach full potential because of Watson and any number of other things instead of holding OBrien accountable for all the mistakes he makes as a head coach??

that’s why there is such a big divide among fans. The OBrien supporters resort to Trumpist style tactics of disinformation and intentional misdirection.

This team goes as Watson goes. OBrien is just tagging along for the ride.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Fair enough,

I predict they go 2-1 and posters will be wanting to fire him for the loss.

BOB really hasn't called a bad game this yr other than the Raiders game. The Carolina game wasn't great but there were plays there to be made that didn't get made.
I'd be cool with 2-1. Not so cool with 1-2 unless the 1 is Indy.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
It hasn't got jack to do with moving goal posts. OB's record against better teams is what it is. Improving on that record only gives fans a better feeling of how they'll handle playoff games, which is the ultimate goal. *edit- winning playoff games, not how the fans feel.

He had a 9 game winning streak last year and very few had confidence they'd do anything in the playoffs, BECAUSE HE DOESN'T BEAT GOOD TEAMS. And sure enough and once again.

They go 3-0 the next 3 weeks and it doesn't mean jack about a game in January, but it does give you a little more confidence that maybe they'll be able to finally get something done. Nothing more, nothing less.

They go 0-3, 1-2, and the confidence level remains rock bottom because it's what we'll have seen for a 6th straight year. Rolling up the W's against average to below, and getting thumped by the better. They could go 0-3, 1-2 in these next 3 games and still win 10, 11 games, and the masses will still have no confidence they'll do anything in January BECAUSE HE DOESN'T BEAT GOOD TEAMS.

The history is there. And it's not just a small sample size. It ain't about your weak ass goal post moving argument. It's about taking forward steps and getting this franchise past the point they've been stuck at for forever.

Yeah … that.

They have to make us believe they are going to beat those better teams … Not expect them to "put up a good fight" but ultimately lose.
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
How did O'Brien call such a good game against Jax? I believe he just turned the play calling over to Watson. "Call what you want."
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
How funny is it that Watson keeps being painted as “not grasping” OBriens “offense” so I ask this ... what exactly is OBriens offense? It has been horrible UNTIL Watson arrived and STILL somehow this team doesn’t reach full potential because of Watson and any number of other things instead of holding OBrien accountable for all the mistakes he makes as a head coach??

that’s why there is such a big divide among fans. The OBrien supporters resort to Trumpist style tactics of disinformation and intentional misdirection.

This team goes as Watson goes. OBrien is just tagging along for the ride.
Go back and look at his PennSt. offenses if you want to know what his offenses are.

He tried to teach this to Watson but quickly realized that Watson was best off script and he retooled the offense to fit Watson's skillset.

Watson is really the 1st QB BOB has had to work with and the fact that Watson is in the MVP conversation tells me BOB/Kelly/Smith have done a great job accentuating Watson's strengths and minimizing his weaknesses. What more do you want from BOB and his staff?

What games has BOB done a bad job in this yr. Oakland and it's debatable about Carolina because of the missed opportunities by Watson.

So I ask you what have I not held BOB accountable for? I've mentioned until I'm blue in the face about BOB's shortcomings TO'/Challenges etc... again, what more do you want?

You're correct though this team goes as Watson goes and when he throws into double coverage/misses open reads etc... I'm going to say something. I think that's fair.

I'm hoping Watson keeps learning and stays healthy because with the new offense I think with the Texans can be a legit contender and maybe win a SB NEXT yr.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
How did O'Brien call such a good game against Jax? I believe he just turned the play calling over to Watson. "Call what you want."
Yep, I forgot about the Jags game in my post above. Good news is BOB realized after 2 weeks of Jags/Panthers BOB realized what he wanted to do wasn't going to work and quickly changed course.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
I'm not an O'Brien fan, however, I will wait to see how the season plays out.

Your hate for O'Brien blinds you to the fact his players play for him and somehow, I guess thru SHEER luck, he wins games (Only had Watson for 1 playoff run, let's see year 2).
I think the next three games will revile what kind of a coach BOB is. They’re not winning by SHEER luck or because of BOB. They’re winning because Watson’s off script plays bail out the offense several times a game. I’ll admit that bobs play calling has gotten better. He still sucks at in game adjustments and game management and that is going to be a huge handicap in the playoffs. If he pulls off 2 of the next three I’ll feel a little better about him. He’s going to have to prove himself in the playoffs. Another first round ass kicking and he should be fired. I don’t care what happens in the regular season. Six years of mediocrity is long enough.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
He’s going to have to prove himself in the playoffs. Another first round ass kicking and he should be fired. I don’t care what happens in the regular season.
This is why I don't think the next three weeks will tell us anything. If anything it's going to show us where the team's weaknesses really are.

He'll still have the month of December to address those weaknesses.

January is what it's all about. We could win the next three & lose 26-3 Wildcard weekend & those three games won't mean crap.

We could lose the next three & dominate the AFCCG, who's going to remember these three games?

Yes, it would be nice to win these games. But they're just regular season games. Qualifiers. That's it.
 

Earl34

Rookie
Last yr he was dealing with a QB that was coming off of an ACL and then suffered a broken ribs/punctured lung.

This yr he expected Watson to have a better grasp on the offense and make quicker decisions/find open guys better than he did last yr. That didn't happen, so BOB changed the offense after the Carolina game.

The reason he didn't change it before then is Watson played well at times in the old offense in the 1st 2 games against the Saints/Chargers. After Watson struggled against the Jags/Panthers he said screw it and changed the offense. Which is what we were all calling for and you would think everybody would be happy. But apparently that's not ever going to happen.

I'm going to start a thread soon asking the question why do people hate BOB, soon. Plenty of posters have admitted they just dont like the guy and I wonder why? He's done about as good as a HC could do with a beat up team that had terrible OL issues and no WR's other than Hopkins at the end of last yr.
It’s amazing the way you can penetrate the fog around NRG and mind meld with O’Brien. Why are you wasting your talents on a mediocre NFL team when you could be playing poker and reading the minds of your opponents?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
It’s amazing the way you can penetrate the fog around NRG and mind meld with O’Brien. Why are you wasting your talents on a mediocre NFL team when you could be playing poker and reading the minds of your opponents?
Thanks, I think

Why do you think BOB used one offense, then changed to another offense then went back to the 1st offense? Did I not make sense?
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
A good synopsis of his weaknesses. Hopefully he hires somebody to strictly help him with Clock mgmt/TO's/Challenges.

They aren't ready for an AFCCG appearance. Gotta get experience. They do need to win a playoff game.

I agree BOB's been an avg HC so far. But lets see what he can do when the vision/direction of the team is clearly in his hands.

Atleast you didn't use the he's mean to the media card, or he's not a leader, when the team clearly plays hard for him.
I keep on hearing all the criticism directed towards O'Brien re. his challenges. So I tried to do a search on any stats that reflected challenges by NFL coaches. I found this interesting post on Reddit that addresses this subject:

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Posted by
Patriots
9 months ago


Current NFL Head Coach Challenge Statistics


I thought I'd have a wild Friday evening so I decided to take a look into current NFL Head Coach Challenge Statistics. I only included info for seasons in which challenges were allowed. This affects Belichick, Carroll, & Gruden, hence Andy Reid shows more seasons coached. I learned a few surprising things.

Harbough challenges the most, Marrone wins the most challenges, Belichick has a surprisingly low Challenge Win % (especially in contrast to his Game Win %), and River Boat Ron literally is a coin flip away from being right on every challenge.

Also, Matt Nagy and Mike Vrabel have both yet to win a challenge in the NFL apparently. They both had winning first seasons which leads me to believe that reading too much into Challenge Win % might not be a good idea. Still, something to look out for heading into 2019.
Anyway, the table:

1573403739891.png

1573404483726.png
1573404126233.png
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I keep on hearing all the criticism directed towards O'Brien re. his challenges. So I tried to do a search on any stats that reflected challenges by NFL coaches. I found this interesting post on Reddit that addresses this subject:

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Posted by
Patriots
9 months ago
Current NFL Head Coach Challenge Statistics


I thought I'd have a wild Friday evening so I decided to take a look into current NFL Head Coach Challenge Statistics. I only included info for seasons in which challenges were allowed. This affects Belichick, Carroll, & Gruden, hence Andy Reid shows more seasons coached. I learned a few surprising things.

Harbough challenges the most, Marrone wins the most challenges, Belichick has a surprisingly low Challenge Win % (especially in contrast to his Game Win %), and River Boat Ron literally is a coin flip away from being right on every challenge.

Also, Matt Nagy and Mike Vrabel have both yet to win a challenge in the NFL apparently. They both had winning first seasons which leads me to believe that reading too much into Challenge Win % might not be a good idea. Still, something to look out for heading into 2019.
Anyway, the table:

View attachment 4834

View attachment 4838
View attachment 4837
Looks like he's in the middle of the pack.

Kinda like his coaching record.

Hopefully as the talent improves around him he can continue to improve in both areas.

Like I've said before, I like the direction the franchise is headed in under BOB/Easterby and hopefully Caserio is added this offseason. The contrast in how business used to be done vs how it's being done now is stark and is only going to get better.
 


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