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Finally, a good VY article--

Some things that have stood out at me:

"If it's even, you have to take the quarterback," NFL.com analyst Gil Brandt says. "What you have to decide if you are the Texans is that if Reggie Bush and Leinart and Vince Young are equal talents, then you have to go with the quarterback because the quarterback has more profound ways of winning games. You can also get a running back later in the draft."
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And then:
"The thing that was impressive was Young's ability to make plays and the consistency of his throws," Broncos coach Mike Shanahan says. "He's been known to not be that accurate and not have the best motion. But when you take a look at the stats and the passing efficiency, it's off the charts.

"Then he makes plays with his legs, and that's what you're looking for in a quarterback, someone who's always making plays. And he does that consistently."
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Who really doesn't have a dog in this race........ .. well, he does have those two #1s... I can see him giving up 2 #1s for Vince.

and this one:
Part of the reason is because Bush would take pressure off quarterback David Carr,
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Not really. You've got your triplets........ now you need a starting 5
 
thunderkyss said:
Who really doesn't have a dog in this race........ .. well, he does have those two #1s... I can see him giving up 2 #1s for Vince.
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He does have his son, Kyle Shanahan former 'Horn and Texans quality control guy. I don't think that makes his opinion biased at all, really no posturing to be done there. VY in Denver would be scary, Shanahan is a risk taker. Don't think they could get up here, but he's one of those coaches who would be a good fit for VY. Seems like Kubes would be too.
 
Good article but no new information, and it still clings sadly to the prospect of VY in a Texans uniform. Call me mean, but it ain't happening.
 
While I like VY, I dont even think he is the best QB coming out of the state of Texas this year, and a former all-pro safety agrees. McNeal is a faster, better throwing QB. Had more running yards than VY, in each of the past 3 years. His throwing yards are down, but you dont throwin in a option offense enough to get yards. 3 of the top 4 wide recievers went down. What would have VY done without Thomas Sneed and Cosby? Nottin the same as McNeal did with his recievers. When playin with good recievers and against top tier corners, he was 9-11 for 212 yards and the East-West Shrine. Lead 4 drives, and scored on each of them while throwin the game winning TD. If McNeal went to austin and VY had gone to college station, McNeal would be a top 5 pick and VY hoping to make it on the first day.
 
stonedtexansfan said:
If McNeal went to austin and VY had gone to college station, McNeal would be a top 5 pick and VY hoping to make it on the first day.
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And where would Lienart be if he went to A&M??
 
Leinert is too hard to say, he wouldnt have ran the option offense that McNeal went thro this year. The biggest asset of Leinert is his leadership and accurracy. He only lost 2 games in 3 years, and i know VY only lost twice to OU and dazzled at the Rose Bowl twice and is a top-tier QB hes just the 3rd QB on my board behind Leinert and McNeal.
 
stonedtexansfan said:
While I like VY, I dont even think he is the best QB coming out of the state of Texas this year, and a former all-pro safety agrees. McNeal is a faster, better throwing QB. Had more running yards than VY, in each of the past 3 years. His throwing yards are down, but you dont throwin in a option offense enough to get yards. 3 of the top 4 wide recievers went down. What would have VY done without Thomas Sneed and Cosby? Nottin the same as McNeal did with his recievers. When playin with good recievers and against top tier corners, he was 9-11 for 212 yards and the East-West Shrine. Lead 4 drives, and scored on each of them while throwin the game winning TD. If McNeal went to austin and VY had gone to college station, McNeal would be a top 5 pick and VY hoping to make it on the first day.
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East-West Shrine game is full of second day picks and free agents. Did he perform yes, but if you buy that then you must give props to VY as well for doing what he did.

McNeal may be a value pick early day 2, but the kid has more question marks for the next level than the Riddler.
 
The East/West shirne had a better defense than VY faced at the Rose Bowl. The OSU defense that VY beat is better, and that was his best game considering compotion. The USC defense was beat up and overmatched while the Buckeye defense had the athletes to keep Vince in check. Playin against 2nd day picks is better than playin against undrafted free agents like the USC secondary is gonna be.
 
stonedtexansfan said:
The East/West shirne had a better defense than VY faced at the Rose Bowl. The OSU defense that VY beat is better, and that was his best game considering compotion. The USC defense was beat up and overmatched while the Buckeye defense had the athletes to keep Vince in check. Playin against 2nd day picks is better than playin against undrafted free agents like the USC secondary is gonna be.
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That's right keep telling yourself that. McNeal could not live up to the hype in his collegiate career. Moreover, in the eyes of those that matter in the NFL, they cannot agree on what position he is.

You may want to hop into and a time machine and go back to 2001. The VY/McNeal debate was more relevant at that time.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
You may want to hop into and a time machine and go back to 2001. The VY/McNeal debate was more relevant at that time.
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Wow, wouldn't say that is anything close to true. There was a legitimate debate going on as to who was better going into last season. Let's look at what they were just coming off of:

2004
McNeal 58.1% comp., 2791 yds, 8.1 ypa, 14 TD's, 4 INT's, 137.4 QB rating, 718 rushing yards, 4.8 ypa and 8 TD's. (That would be within the same area code as the mythical 3000/1000 yd season from VY this year).
VY 59.2% comp., 1849 yds, 7.4 ypa, 12 TD's, 11 INT's, 128.4 QB, rating, 1079 rushing yds, 6.5 ypa, 14 TD's.

This past season VY stepped up his game tremendously while McNeal's game fell off. There is clear separation now, but the waters were murky a year ago IMO.
 
infantrycak said:
Wow, wouldn't say that is anything close to true. There was a legitimate debate going on as to who was better going into last season. Let's look at what they were just coming off of:
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If you felt that McNeal was that good going into the season or you bought into the hype about him, especially Herbstreit pumping him, then I could see how you would say that was anything close to true.

I have never thought McNeal was an NFL caliber QB, but indeed a NFL caliber talent. At the beginning of the year I thought VY was a better candidate to be an NFL QB and would be a 1st day pick if he came out. It was not until 3/4 through the season that I thought VY was a first round pick.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
If you felt that McNeal was that good going into the season or you bought into the hype about him, especially Herbstreit pumping him, then I could see how you would say that was anything close to true.
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Personally, I had doubts about both of them going into last season--I generally am not a big running QB guy. I sat around in a room full of UT fans before last season and there was a debate going on about whether VY was going to be an NFL QB. Like I said, VY completely elevated his game this year while McNeil.

JMO it is revisionist to act like there was a consensus on VY prior to the 2005 season.

Example 1

Example 2

Example 3
 
infantrycak said:
Wow, wouldn't say that is anything close to true. There was a legitimate debate going on as to who was better going into last season. Let's look at what they were just coming off of:

2004
McNeal 58.1% comp., 2791 yds, 8.1 ypa, 14 TD's, 4 INT's, 137.4 QB rating, 718 rushing yards, 4.8 ypa and 8 TD's. (That would be within the same area code as the mythical 3000/1000 yd season from VY this year).
VY 59.2% comp., 1849 yds, 7.4 ypa, 12 TD's, 11 INT's, 128.4 QB, rating, 1079 rushing yds, 6.5 ypa, 14 TD's.

This past season VY stepped up his game tremendously while McNeal's game fell off. There is clear separation now, but the waters were murky a year ago IMO.
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Infantry, you say mythical: having not bothered to check the widely reported but now disputed stat line, did he not run 3000/1000?
 
jerek said:
Infantry, you say mythical: having not bothered to check the widely reported but now disputed stat line, did he not run 3000/1000?
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maybe he meant legendary instead of mythical .... legendary like Sam Houston, William Travis, Daniel Boone, Vince Young, ....
 
jerek said:
Infantry, you say mythical: having not bothered to check the widely reported but now disputed stat line, did he not run 3000/1000?
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I just botched what I was trying to say. What I meant was "of mythic proportions." He did so playing in the same conference (there goes the weak Pac-10, WAC arguments), on a weaker team (is anyone really going to contend A&M is up to UT's standards right now?).
 
exclude said:
Here's another great article about VY.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jones/060301&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos2
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Damn, that was a good article.

infantrycak said:
I just botched what I was trying to say. What I meant was "of mythic proportions." He did so playing in the same conference (there goes the weak Pac-10, WAC arguments), on a weaker team (is anyone really going to contend A&M is up to UT's standards right now?).
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Ah, got ya. And hell no: people like to pretend Vince did it all by himself, while glazing over the all-world UT team he had around him. I still thought USC would beat UT (was off by 3 points, but an L is an L), and yes, Vince really stepped up and showed the world a thing or two. But it's not like USC didn't donkey up their D on that last drive and it's not as if Vince's offense didn't step up with him.
 
infantrycak said:
2004
McNeal 58.1% comp., 2791 yds, 8.1 ypa, 14 TD's, 4 INT's, 137.4 QB rating, 718 rushing yards, 4.8 ypa and 8 TD's. (That would be within the same area code as the mythical 3000/1000 yd season from VY this year).
VY 59.2% comp., 1849 yds, 7.4 ypa, 12 TD's, 11 INT's, 128.4 QB, rating, 1079 rushing yds, 6.5 ypa, 14 TD's.
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Quick clarification for folks here as well. Just noticed that for whatever reason the ESPN player page for McNeal did not include his post season stats while Young's did. Putting both players on an even page, i.e. including McNeal's 2004 post-season since VY's 3000/1000 only came with the inclusion of the Rose Bowl, McNeal's 2004 stat line actually was over 3000 passing yds, specifically 3032 yds.
 
3000/700 isnt rare. pretty sure alex smith did it just last year except he had like 4000/700.

the 1000yd benchmark is the one that pocket qbs can never seem to reach. and the 2500 yards passing is the one that running qbs can never reach.

so getting 3000/1000 is very impressive.
 
stevo3883 said:
3000/700 isnt rare. pretty sure alex smith did it just last year except he had like 4000/700.

the 1000yd benchmark is the one that pocket qbs can never seem to reach. and the 2500 yards passing is the one that running qbs can never reach.

so getting 3000/1000 is very impressive.
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If you check back, the original point was merely that going into the 2005 season the issue of VY vs. Reggie McNeal was anything but decided. A side note was McNeal was in the same area code of VY's achievement--and I am sorry, but 3000/700 isn't all that far from (it isn't the difference between mediocre and legendary as some are making out) 3000/1000 when considering it was in the same conference and more importantly the talent level of the surrounding cast, particularly the OL. Remind me of the last time A & M's OL was described as either the best college OL or the 2nd best college OL?

Did you really pull out a Mountain West reference?
 
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/45976&rss=1

This is by far the best VY article I've seen in the past month.

"We originally thought quite highly of Young, who ran a seemingly complicated offense at Texas," said Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly. "He had all the tools needed to score well on a standardized test in this league. Vince's completion percentage got higher every year, he was good at picking up the blitzes, and his ability to organize an audible at the line of scrimmage was unequaled in college ball. But his inability to answer story problems, diagram sentences, and solve simple geometric equations makes us wonder if he's really as smart on the field as he's been playing."
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Houston, the team with the No. 1 pick in this year's draft, had been considering replacing quarterback David Carr with popular hometown hero Young. However, for all his problems on the field, Carr scored a 24 on his Wonderlic before being taken first overall in the 2002 draft.

"Let's face it—trading an untested 6 for a known 24 is a recipe for disaster," Casserly said. "If Vince Young can't tell us how many 29-cent loaves of bread can be purchased with the $3.49 in his pocket, how can we expect him to understand the two-minute drill—let alone his own quarterback rating?"
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:yahoo:
 
infantrycak said:
If you check back, the original point was merely that going into the 2005 season the issue of VY vs. Reggie McNeal was anything but decided. A side note was McNeal was in the same area code of VY's achievement--and I am sorry, but 3000/700 isn't all that far from (it isn't the difference between mediocre and legendary as some are making out) 3000/1000 when considering it was in the same conference and more importantly the talent level of the surrounding cast, particularly the OL. Remind me of the last time A & M's OL was described as either the best college OL or the 2nd best college OL?

Did you really pull out a Mountain West reference?
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A&M is always putting quality players into the nfl........ many on the OLine. I was a McNeal fan too.... And would have loved for him to be a Texan... But, I kept hearing a lot of wierd stuff about him all through last year..... attitude stuff, I have no idea how true any of it is...

I loved watching Vince in the 2004 probowl........ I mean Rose Bowl, But not so much that I wanted him dressing in BattleREd&Blue... But I liked watching him play.

Freshman Jamal Charles is from my Town, so I made a point to watch every Texas game this year(and next year, and the year after for that matter). Vince really impressed me this year.... after seeing how his passing game has improved, and hearing about the work he put in over the summer, the challenge he laid out to his team, the confidence and faith his team & coaches have in him, seeing him will his team to victory many times over, witnessing his poise under pressure, and watching how he can scramble, and go through a progression to as many as 4 different recievers..... I must say I fell in love.

I'm not ashamed to say it, I have a man crush on Vince Young....... he is not normal.... he is superhuman, and I would love to have him on my team. I Understand we might/might not need a QB, and the smart thing to do would be to get some real talent, and depth on the OLine, and some pass rushers on D. But if we are going to use the first pick, let's use it on Vince.... I know that spells the end of David Carr's career as a Texan, but I truly think next year might be the end anyway.... as long as that is a possibility, I think it would be silly to pass on Vince.

I know it isn't a popular opinion, but it is mine.. If Jamal Charles went to USC, it is very likely I'd feel the same about Matt LIenart....... not reggie bush, because I feel confident that our stable is capable of leading the league in rushing...... at least getting into the top 10. Which is good enough for a SuperBowl Run.
 
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