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Eric Winston signs with Chiefs
- Thread starter KMG 365
- Start date
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
He's gonna be huge for them. Their RT position has been terrible for years.
JimBaker488
Waterboy
Former Missouri resident and forever a Chiefs fan so I've gotta say I'm happy for the Chiefs running game and glad for their QB that Eric is a RT and not covering the QBs "blind side".
Good luck in KC Eric, you will soon find that it's a great town with great football fans ! And no matter what Texans say, you cannot beat KC's BBQ.
Good luck in KC Eric, you will soon find that it's a great town with great football fans ! And no matter what Texans say, you cannot beat KC's BBQ.
gary
Hall of Fame
Good for my friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMYhMLEx9kc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMYhMLEx9kc
Goldensilence
hipster elite
SheTexan
Hall of Fame
Best of luck to the "gentle giant!" I remember meeting Eric at his first All Access, and he was so friendly and sweet. Got into a conversation with my granddaughter about pink jerseys. He wanted to buy one for his girlfriend. I hated to see him go cause I'm a sentimental old fool, but, life goes on in the NFL and I wish him nothing but success!!
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Even on the day he signed with his new team, Winston admitted that it is still tough to leave the Texans.
It's so bittersweet," Winston said. "I've talked to a lot of old teammates I guess I have to say now. Chris (Myers), Mike (Brisiel) Joel (Dresseen), (Matt) Schaub. Some of the guys, they called me and it was such a nice show of support when I was released. It was really touching and it just goes to show you how close I think we all are and how we still are and how many great friends I made within the organization.
"It wasn't just players. There were so many people within the organization texting me and calling me, wishing me great luck. That was something that was really special and something I will never forget."
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/nfl/120317-eric-winston-joins-the-chiefs
It's so bittersweet," Winston said. "I've talked to a lot of old teammates I guess I have to say now. Chris (Myers), Mike (Brisiel) Joel (Dresseen), (Matt) Schaub. Some of the guys, they called me and it was such a nice show of support when I was released. It was really touching and it just goes to show you how close I think we all are and how we still are and how many great friends I made within the organization.
"It wasn't just players. There were so many people within the organization texting me and calling me, wishing me great luck. That was something that was really special and something I will never forget."
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/nfl/120317-eric-winston-joins-the-chiefs
Pantherstang84
@rolisrgti06
That was classy of him when he had a legitimate gripe. Now Mario on the other hand...
SheTexan
Hall of Fame
Geeezzzz, I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes. I absolutely HATE Rick Smith!! Our Oline was just beginning to gel due to the rapport and respect the guys had for each other. The Texans messed with a good thing, and now we've lost Brisiel as well. I just hope Butler, or whoever, has half the heart Eric has. YEA, I know it's a business, blah, blah, blah, but, when you have a team that CLICKS you just don't screw it up, esp if you want to win a championship! It takes guts, heart, soul, and love for each other, as well as talent. Not every player is gonna have it all, that's why they depend on each other. JMO
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
JimBaker488
Waterboy
Surprised by the contract # as I would have thought the guaranteed money alone would have been close to the contract total ? Looks like Myers really was more valuable to the Texans than Winston even though he's just a center and Winston is a tackle ?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Looks like there may have been something more to the Texans not re-signing Winston besides money. Maybe, for the money, concern over his pass protection may have weighed in as heavy as they have with many of us.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Probably thought Myers was more valuable at that price than Winston was and couldn't keep both.
I heard the guys on 610 opine that the Texans probably compared Butler giving up 10 sacks on the season at $1M vs Winston giving up 10 sacks on the year at $5M & saw better value in Butler.
Not to pour lemon juice on a papercut, while I understood the thinking it flies in the face of an equally cap saving move like $4.5M for 500 yards you'd get from Jacoby & the 500 yards we could get out of just about any league minimum 3rd year player with as many opportunities as Jacoby Jones or Kevin Walter.
It also doesn't explain why the Texans didn't look to restructure Eric a month ago when they knew they were in cap doo-doo.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
This is the thing that gets me. If he was traded to another team, he would have cost that team 4.5 million a year for 2 years. The Chiefs could have given up a 4th round pick for him and saved 2 million in cap space. I really don't see how there wasn't a trade market for him, even a 6th is better than nothing. It just sounds to me like he wasn't even put on the block, but for cryin out loud, how the hell does Rick not ask him to take a pay cut at the very least? Absolutely ****ing stupid management by Smith and co on this situation.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Winston gave up 7.5 sacks last year according to this site:
http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7815&team=34
That's an average of .5 sacks a game. That's really not that bad for a RT. I know people want to compare it to interior lineman, but that's disingenuous at best. The majority of sacks in the NFL come from outside rushers be it DEs, LBs or even secondary players coming off the edge. Tackles have a much more difficult job in pass protection than guards do, which is why they tend to have more sacks given up on average.
Winston was an above average RT, and was paid fair market value for his position, as we can see by the Chiefs signing him for an average of 5.5 million, which is exactly what we were scheduled to pay him. The fact that the team saw Winston as more expendable than Jacoby is just a freaking joke. We just invested 20 million dollars in Foster, we need guys like Winston that can run block. Jacobys can be found in the draft easily, Winstons not so much. I'm really disappointed that he's gone because I like him as a person, but I'm more disappointed that the Texans priorities are completely bassackwards.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Don't think they had time to put him on the block because they had to get under the cap quick. Cutting him was the fastest way to do that.
I understand that we were $20 million over the cap last year and the cap didn't go up, but there really is no excuse for the cap situation to be mishandled so poorly the past year.
Cutting Jacoby would have saved nearly as much, & you still have Antonio, Owen, & Demeco to restructure.
Like we're saying, they had 3 months to formulate a plan. Winston could still be here today, with Rick Smith talking to the Cheifs, Detroit, & Miami about draft picks for Eric.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
If Rick Smith doesn't know exactly what the Texans' cap situation is at all times, then he's a ****ing idiot. That's his job, he should have seen this coming in September. The only way to get into a situation of need for a quick fix is mismanagement.
We weren't 20 mill over the cap last year, that was just incompetent reporting from General Pancakes. The NFL won't allow you to exceed the cap during the season/playoffs unless it's due to incentives. Even then, anything earned in 2011 counts against the cap, and if the incentives force a team to exceed the cap, that extra money is deducted from the following year. It's simply impossible for a team to be 20 mill over the cap during the season. What he mistakenly reported was that the Texans spent 20 million over the cap if you include signing bonuses (JJo, JJ, Watt + rookies), however the cap hits were amortized. That number is kind of meaningless until the 90% minimum kicks in.
In any case, I'm pissed off at them for picking Jacoby over Winston. Nobody would have faulted them for replacing Jacoby.
:kubepalm: 
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
If Rick Smith doesn't know exactly what the Texans' cap situation is at all times, then he's a ****ing idiot. That's his job, he should have seen this coming in September. The only way to get into a situation of need for a quick fix is mismanagement.
We weren't 20 mill over the cap last year, that was just incompetent reporting from General Pancakes. The NFL won't allow you to exceed the cap during the season/playoffs unless it's due to incentives. Even then, anything earned in 2011 counts against the cap, and if the incentives force a team to exceed the cap, that extra money is deducted from the following year. It's simply impossible for a team to be 20 mill over the cap during the season. What he mistakenly reported was that the Texans spent 20 million over the cap if you include signing bonuses (JJo, JJ, Watt + rookies), however the cap hits were amortized. That number is kind of meaningless until the 90% minimum kicks in.
In any case, I'm pissed off at them for picking Jacoby over Winston. Nobody would have faulted them for replacing Jacoby.
Great post man. I agree completely.
No doubt in my mind that Rick Smith needs to be fired. Pathetic cap management by him, and there is no excuse. Picking Jacoby over Winston is just the icing on the cake.
bckey
All Pro
This is what I'm thinking. If you have to choose between the 2 its gotta be Myers. The FO gambled when they cut Winston and let Myers test free agency. Luckily they won this hand of poker.
I wish Winston the best and he will be missed. At least he is smart enough to understand it is a business and has no hard feelings. Mario on the other hand seems to me like he thinks he was mistreated here. The guy was one of the highest paid Texans ever. He was drafted 1st overall. He missed most of his final season here and some of another but I didn't here any complaints about him from fans. I always liked the guy even though I hated the constant semi circle to the qb pass rush he used. He never developed enough moves to get to the inside on good tackles. So its amazing he got the sacks he did on pure physical ability. The guy is a physical specimen. No hard feelings Mario. Texan fans wish you the best. I just think you got taken in by Buffalo's suck up job and now you are stuck in "never never land".
That's my thought's, that is Rick Smith and his cap guy just didn't have a handle on the cap situation and didn't realize where they were at until the very end when it was too late with too little time to wheel & deal and make a trade with Winston. And if all they got for him in a trade was a 4th or 5th round pick, that's worth something when you review how some of our mid
to late-round picks have turned out.
SheTexan
Hall of Fame
Question for you guys! Where does Dennison or John Benton fit into this pic? Seems like they've worked pretty hard to develope a cohesive Oline, and now we're seeing it torn apart. Do they have ANY say in who gets cut? Like some of you have mentioned, and I've wondered myself, WHY Winston over JJ?? If Winston did a good job blocking for our #1 RB, why didn't Chick Harris speak up in Winston's defense? Maybe the coaches are just there to COACH and keep their mouths shut, but, just wondering WHY you would mess up a good, and improving Oline, without a fight.
I understand Kubiaks manlove for JJ, so don't go there!!
I understand Kubiaks manlove for JJ, so don't go there!!
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
Hows about, they're going to cut Jacoby too, but they are only allowed to designate 2 June 1st cuts ahead of time, and it has to be after the start of the league year (all fits so far) and, between the fact that Vickers and Winston are going to start somewhere, and the fact that you save more immediately cutting Winston than Jacoby, they chose, out of respect, to let Winston hit the market while its hot. Jacoby has to wait till June 1st.
Its just something to think about before we go off the deep end criticizing why Jacoby is still here and Eric is gone. It doesn't necessarily mean he'll be on the roster.
Its just something to think about before we go off the deep end criticizing why Jacoby is still here and Eric is gone. It doesn't necessarily mean he'll be on the roster.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
Question for you guys! Where does Dennison or John Benton fit into this pic? Seems like they've worked pretty hard to develope a cohesive Oline, and now we're seeing it torn apart. Do they have ANY say in who gets cut? Like some of you have mentioned, and I've wondered myself, WHY Winston over JJ?? If Winston did a good job blocking for our #1 RB, why didn't Chick Harris speak up in Winston's defense? Maybe the coaches are just there to COACH and keep their mouths shut, but, just wondering WHY you would mess up a good, and improving Oline, without a fight.
I understand Kubiaks manlove for JJ, so don't go there!!
First things first, we will never know what grade the coaches gave Eric for his season. PFF does a good job in grading the players but it will never be accurate because the coaches, while they use a similar system, know the players exact role in each play call.
We don't know how often these guys miss their assignment and are lucky that it comes to nothing, or someone else manages to pick it up for them etc, so its difficult to judge.
Secondly, we haven't seen Butler in practice every day for the last few years, only in limited snaps in pre-season, and a few starts at LT over a year ago, again, very difficult for us to judge what the coaches would think of the two guys.
I'd imagine the coaches are consulted to a point about which personnel to keep and lose, they at least put a grade on these guys at the end of the season for the guys upstairs to place against their cap number and decide if they got value from that guy over the course of the season.
If the cap really was that tight, the only thing that may have played in is, if we're going to spend north of $5mill on one guy, would you prefer to be coaching up a rookie center or backup swing-tackle next season?
At the end of the day, if people on here were asked to rank every starter by how well they played their position last season, Eric would not be too far from the bottom of that list. I think the same probably goes if you asked people to rank production vs. cap hit for the entire team. I don't really get why people are so upset by a natural facet of success in the NFL.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Vickers only had 1 year left on his deal and we bought him out for 250k (remainder of his signing bonus). I don't see why they would designate him a June 1st cut in that instance. I'm not even sure you can designate a buyout as a June 1st cut.
Lienart might have been a June 1st cut, but he had 1 year and 1-2 million gtd left on his deal. Other than that, I can't think of anyone else who would get that designation.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
I did actually read something that said that very few teams will use both their designated June 1st cuts early due to other cap ramifications.
I'll be honest that I don't understand the full ins and outs of it, but there is a possibility there that they've made their 2 June 1st cuts somewhere in there and are waiting on Jacoby.
I think the other side is a more likely argument though, they've let the guys who have a chance to start hit a hot market, out of respect, and will let Jacoby sit it out.
I just don't understand why people are so upset about the timing. I doubt Eric Winston gets $22mill if he was cut post draft, and I doubt Jacoby is off the market yet if he had been cut, and I also doubt the actual timing of the cuts, if both end up happening, will have any effect on the Texans season next year.
SheTexan is a good poster, but I can't help but feel that 'hating' Rick Smith when he's done this is as kind a way as its possible to tell a guy they've lost their job is OTT.
Winston was a great team guy, great media guy...I get it, but he was the weakest link last season on the Oline, we have a guy at backup who has enough experience that he should be ready to step up, and we have a draft in which they may choose to bring in competition. They may also have an idea of someone they can take in FA/trade to upgrade the position, we just don't know.
Why do you have to chose. They had three months to rework contracts to get under the cap. Three months they could have been talking to agents while the players enjoyed their time off. Three months they could have been feeling what was what.
They could have restructured Eric to get us under the cap. They could have restructured Demeco, Antonio, Even Jacoby to get under the cap.
Winston can be here as we probe Denver, Detroit, Miami, & KC for possible trade scenarios.
A better argument (if I were you) would be "how do we know they didn't"
Which is a good argument... we don't, but I find it hard to believe Winston would get signed to a $5M/yr deal less than a week after FA started if there was no trade interest.
But, what do I know. I'm just an electrician with too much time on my hands.
:kubepalm: <- mods, please get us a Rick Smith facepalm.
SheTexan
Hall of Fame
Awwww come on now welshie!! I admitted in that post about "hating" RS that I'm a sentimental old fool!!
I've read just about every post on this board, and others, about the salary cap, draft, trades, etc, and I DO understand how the NFL works. I don't really hate RS, he's doing his job and could care less what the fans think. THANK GOODNESS for that, cause there are about a thousand different opinions about Winstons demise. I've seen favorites come and go for a very LONG time, so it's really just a matter of VENTING, getting over it, and moving on. I own ONE jersey that has a players # on it, and that is #80. I've worn it twice. Once in New Orleans, and again in Baltimore. I say this because I learned a long time ago not to get attached to any one particular player. They are here today and gone tomorrow in this business. YES, I have my favs, YES, I might shed a tear or two when one of them gets released, YES, I have a soft spot for the "good old boy" who does more than just play the game of football! BUT, when it's all said and done, I set my focus on next year and what my team as a whole is going to do to reach the SB. It's all part of the game for an OLD football fan like me.
That's right. If you can get over Billy Miller leaving, then Winston should be no problem.
I think Rick Smith is getting too much blame/credit in all of this. He's the facilitator. None of these cuts/signings happen without Kubiak's approval. If Kubiak, Dennison, and Benton weren't OK with losing Winston, they would have found a way to keep him and another guy would have been on the chopping block.
If Rick Smith doesn't know exactly what the Texans' cap situation is at all times, then he's a ****ing idiot. That's his job, he should have seen this coming in September. The only way to get into a situation of need for a quick fix is mismanagement.
We weren't 20 mill over the cap last year, that was just incompetent reporting from General Pancakes. The NFL won't allow you to exceed the cap during the season/playoffs unless it's due to incentives. Even then, anything earned in 2011 counts against the cap, and if the incentives force a team to exceed the cap, that extra money is deducted from the following year. It's simply impossible for a team to be 20 mill over the cap during the season. What he mistakenly reported was that the Texans spent 20 million over the cap if you include signing bonuses (JJo, JJ, Watt + rookies), however the cap hits were amortized. That number is kind of meaningless until the 90% minimum kicks in.
In any case, I'm pissed off at them for picking Jacoby over Winston. Nobody would have faulted them for replacing Jacoby.
At the risk of appearing to defend Rick Smith, I have to put the blame with Greg Olsen. He was hired specifically to be the Texans' "capologist"
The way I see it: Rick finds 'em and tries to sign 'em. Olsen makes sure the salaries fit under the cap.
Now the question is did Olsen warn his boss trouble was brewing cap-wise and Smith ignored the warning? Or was Olsen surprised by the new contract agreement?
I have no answer for why Winston and not Jones...
...well, maybe I do...
Fact 1:
We can't afford to sign our own F/As so it follows that we sure as hell don't have the cash to "go shopping" for others.
Fact 2 (although some may say opinion):
There is more quality depth in the O-line than there is at WR.
Add those to things together and you get a decision to let Winston go and retain Jacoby. ....at least until camp when I believe LeStar Jean and Jeff Maehl will be given every opportunity to take Jacoby's job.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
After Mario signed elsewhere Texans re-signed Myers, thought they could have matched KC's offer if they so chose, which kinda pisses me off to be honest. They must have someone specifically in mind. I will miss you Eric, you've been a piller of strength during Texan transformation years, much to be proud of 
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
It says right in the article you quoted that they work together closely, so I don't really see the point in spreading the criticism among them. You can toss Olsen in there too if you want, but typically the GM is the guy that gets the flak. I'm happy to include him in the tar and feathering when it comes time
As for the depth concern, I just don't see Butler being a starting RT. He wasn't that good at LT for the couple of games he played for Brown in 2010. Maybe he will be better on the other side due to weaker competition, but man, tossing out a guy who has started 5 years worth of games in a row is just astounding to me. That's a remarkable figure when you consider how much people get injured in the NFL. The Texans especially have bad luck with injuries for some reason, but Winston has been going strong for about 60 games. He's a beast in the run game, and the Texans ran to the right more than almost every other team in the NFL. I think Winston had a lot to do with Arian's success, but we shall see.
Personally, I think it's a lot harder to find good RTs than it is to find a mediocre WR2/PR. That's my issue with this, is that Eric Winston was a good RT, Jacoby is a mediocre WR and a good PR.
I honestly thought he did an admirable job, that's why I & many others thought he was going to get a starting gig somewhere that offseason.
I don't remember specifics.... my mind doesn't work that way. But I definitely remember being surprised when we re-signed him that offseason.
TheIronDuke
All Pro
Yeah, I remember him tweeting pics of how he was going to WAS but somehow ended up re-signing with us. Guess they didn't want him as bad as he did.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Right-handed QB with a zone running scheme =
Left Tackle and Center > Right tackle set to make $ 5.5 million.
***********************
That said, good luck Eric. You are a heck of a nice person and enjoyed meeting you on a couple of occasions at Gary Lynn Foundation's fundraisers.
False Start
On # 69
Winston will be on The Big show, on 790 in a few minutes. (10:00)
So you would've kept Winston and let Myers go, huh ? The fact that the Texans did the opposite says it all for me, I mean how often does the starting center trump a starting tackle if he's not named Mangold ? And the fact that the Chiefs get Winston for a fairly modest number tells us that Winston was just not that impresssive. As good of a run-blocker as Winston is, I still got bad memories of Indy's Mathis making Winston look foolish, and just wait until those 2 speedy front-range guys Von and Elvis get on the field with big Eric. Won't be pretty.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
What would make you think that they would even consider matching a contract that is essentially the same economics as the one they just "voluntarily" chose to terminate?
SheTexan
Hall of Fame
That's right. If you can get over Billy Miller leaving, then Winston should be no problem.
Ya know what? I still carry a pic of Billy Miller in my car.
He and Kris Brown have a secured spot on my refrig, as well as framed pics on my wall. Davids release didn't upset me as much as the above two. I knew in my gut it was for the best. I still do NOT think Rackers is a better kicker than KB. Kris just had injuries that held him back. That said, I just continue supporting any player that wears our TEXAN uni! I truly sympathize with Colts fans! The day we lose AJ or Meco to another team will be a VERY bad day for this old gal!! I dread seeing that day come.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Just because we don't or can't re-sign all of our players doesn't mean our GM or Cap Expert suck. If anything it could mean that they're doing their job really well. They make the tough decisions based on what they think is best for the team. This is a sign that the Texans are a good team and that we've been bringing in quality players. We're going to lose quality players as their contracts expire and their performance demands a pay raise. We'll sometimes replace them with the guys we've been drafting and developing.
I wish Eric the best of luck. He's a GREAT guy and a good Right Tackle.