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Dutch's 2013 Texans Offseason Projections and Info

Excellent work Dutch :goodpost:

On top of saving 16 million in dead cap money off the books next season trading down or out of 1st is a distinct possibility. Another option could be trading Texan 2013 1st for a lesser teams 1st in a following season 2014 or 2015 & improving a current draft slot to a higher pick :clap:

The thought had crossed my mind, but I don't see it happening unless we win the Super Bowl. Kind of hard to justify avoiding a 1st round pick when you have issues that kept the team from going the distance. I could definitely see us doing that with mid-round picks, say trading our 4th and 6th for a 2014 late 2nd or early 3rd. That works fine IMO, anything that helps us avoid 11 draft picks or more coming in this season. I think we don't need more than 8 at most to avoid cap liability.

GREAT JOB! The only thing I disagree with is, I don't see Smith going anywhere next year. A case could be made that he is the second best 5tech in the NFL behind you know who!

Thanks! Per Antonio, like I said in a follow up post, he could restructure, which would keep him on the team. My biggest problem with Antonio is the fact that he has Watt on the other side of him, and he's not as productive of a pass rusher as I would expect of someone in that situation. He's also just average at stopping the run. I don't think there has been a moment in his time with the Texans where I would have said he was worth 9.8 million a year, or much less at 6. Same argument could be made against Walter, he's overpaid with a top 5 WR on the other side of him, he's clearly not quick enough or can't make the cuts to create separation to warrant him being the #2. Bottom line, I think we could do better while spending less.

As far as mocks go for the mock-heads around here, consider finding a new 3-4 DE this draft to replace Smith. His cap savings is huge and drafting another DE could help in the restructure negotiations. Just something to think about.
 
The thought had crossed my mind, but I don't see it happening unless we win the Super Bowl. Kind of hard to justify avoiding a 1st round pick when you have issues that kept the team from going the distance. I could definitely see us doing that with mid-round picks, say trading our 4th and 6th for a 2014 late 2nd or early 3rd. That works fine IMO, anything that helps us avoid 11 draft picks or more coming in this season. I think we don't need more than 8 at most to avoid cap liability.



Thanks! Per Antonio, like I said in a follow up post, he could restructure, which would keep him on the team. My biggest problem with Antonio is the fact that he has Watt on the other side of him, and he's not as productive of a pass rusher as I would expect of someone in that situation. He's also just average at stopping the run. I don't think there has been a moment in his time with the Texans where I would have said he was worth 9.8 million a year, or much less at 6. Same argument could be made against Walter, he's overpaid with a top 5 WR on the other side of him, he's clearly not quick enough or can't make the cuts to create separation to warrant him being the #2. Bottom line, I think we could do better while spending less.

As far as mocks go for the mock-heads around here, consider finding a new 3-4 DE this draft to replace Smith. His cap savings is huge and drafting another DE could help in the restructure negotiations. Just something to think about.


I could be wrong but I don't think there is another 3/4 DE with more sacks right now than A Smith. And sorry I didn't finish reading entire thread before posting. Yes I believe we will work something out with Smith this offseason. He is a good fit here in more ways than one.
 
What you talkin about Willis?

Whether we're playing three down linemen or 4, Antonio plays inside the tackle. He's a 3 tech with the weak-side OLB playing the 5.

I could be wrong but I don't think there is another 3/4 DE with more sacks right now than A Smith. And sorry I didn't finish reading entire thread before posting. Yes I believe we will work something out with Smith this offseason. He is a good fit here in more ways than one.

I agree. He's been as productive as you'd think a 3-4 DE would be in the passing game. But Dutch is talking about his run defense.

Personally, I think he's been getting it done moreso this year than in the past. I think he's doing a fine job just don't like the money.
 
Whether we're playing three down linemen or 4, Antonio plays inside the tackle. He's a 3 tech with the weak-side OLB playing the 5.

I don't think you are grasping the concept of the 3/4.



I agree. He's been as productive as you'd think a 3-4 DE would be in the passing game. But Dutch is talking about his run defense.

I was responding to this which I highlighted.

My biggest problem with Antonio is the fact that he has Watt on the other side of him, and he's not as productive of a pass rusher as I would expect of someone in that situation.


Yes 9 million is out of the question. Like I said, I think he is important enough to this team in more ways than just as a player and so they will get things worked out with him that will be beneficial to both sides.
 
Just like any team in the NFL, we're a multi-front team (though we have more different fronts than most.)

Our favorite front is the WILL WINK (5-man front).
It looks quite similar to the 4-man under (with a LB on the LOS).

In this front, the NT shades to the strong side as a 1-tech
The weak-side DE lines up outside the weak-side guard as a 3-tech (Antonio Smith).
The weak-side OLB lines up about 2 yard outside the weak-side tackle as a 7-tech.

The strong-side DE lines up on the outside eye of the strong side tackle to head-up (4 or 5-tech) (Watt).
The strong side OLB lines up usually outside the TE as a 9-tech.

The two OLBs could line up wider than that, for different reasons (depending on the offensive personnel, or certain specific D-call).

It really is very simlar to the 4-man under front, except that Watt is head-up on the tackle more often than outside the tackle.

And we have two guys with hands off the ground (the 2 OLBs) whereas the 4-man under has the weak-side DE with hand on the ground.

The NT, the UT (under tackle), and the SAM (strong side OLB) are the same on either front.
 
Can anyone tell me why Luis Nix is not mocked anywhere? If you have watched Irish Chocolate you have be impressed to at least mock him. I am keeping him in second for now as no one else has him even that high.

yeah i found this very strange as well. walter football doesn't have him in any mocks and only added him to his list of prospects a week or so ago.
cbssports from memory doesn't even have him in the prospects list.

i think he ends up going in the first, hopefully to us. once sport commentators put on his game tape and watch his combine and pro day he will shoot up mock draft boards. think Kendall Reyes from Connecticut last year that start the year as a 5th round pick ended up going in the 2nd.

Dont have a link, but Nix said he was returning to school.

Early on Nix did say he was not even thinking about the draft and planned on returning to school, but all of this is predicated on how he was graded before his rise in value. Also, he is a Jr so a lot of folks did not have them on his draft boards because most ND players do not turn pro early. Tuck, Clausen, Autry Denson (don't ask, no one knows why), can not think of anyone else. I know there has been less than 10 to leave school early and enter the draft.

Walter Football is one of the better out there and they usually add a guy when there is a good chance of them leaving school early.
 
The thought had crossed my mind, but I don't see it happening unless we win the Super Bowl. Kind of hard to justify avoiding a 1st round pick when you have issues that kept the team from going the distance. I could definitely see us doing that with mid-round picks, say trading our 4th and 6th for a 2014 late 2nd or early 3rd. That works fine IMO, anything that helps us avoid 11 draft picks or more coming in this season. I think we don't need more than 8 at most to avoid cap liability.



Thanks! Per Antonio, like I said in a follow up post, he could restructure, which would keep him on the team. My biggest problem with Antonio is the fact that he has Watt on the other side of him, and he's not as productive of a pass rusher as I would expect of someone in that situation. He's also just average at stopping the run. I don't think there has been a moment in his time with the Texans where I would have said he was worth 9.8 million a year, or much less at 6. Same argument could be made against Walter, he's overpaid with a top 5 WR on the other side of him, he's clearly not quick enough or can't make the cuts to create separation to warrant him being the #2. Bottom line, I think we could do better while spending less.

As far as mocks go for the mock-heads around here, consider finding a new 3-4 DE this draft to replace Smith. His cap savings is huge and drafting another DE could help in the restructure negotiations. Just something to think about.
I think Crick will help Smith to consider restructuring and then bringing in my mock 6th Lewis-Moore a motor from Notre Dame would also make his ears perk up. No need to spend a higher pick if you truly want Smith here. AGain, I am really looking to off season after a tremendous season, decent draft picks and some wiggle room under cap as is and more as you suggest with some manuevering. :snowday:
 
Corrosion asked me to make a thread about the Texans 2013 offseason, because the info is good for making mock drafts. So I thought I could put together a little something to help you all out when making mocks and have an easy reference for FAQs like compensatory picks, UFAs/RFAs, and some cap space guesses (yes that's what they all are).

I made an Excel spreadsheet for this and took some screenshots to make it easy to read and display. The forum software doesn't do well with Excel copy/paste data, so if changes need to be made, it might be later on in the thread. Anyways, feel free to poke holes in my arguments or offer feedback on whatever. I'm putting it in this forum specifically for Mock Draft help.

Texans 2013 Free Agents:


We have 21 total UFAs, 13 on defense, 6 on offense, and 2 special teams. As you can see, we have several starters that are not under contract next year. By my own estimations, I would list 7 of these 21 as key contributors to this season: Quin S, Barwin OLB, Dobbins ILB, McCain CB, Cody DT, Caldwell OG, Casey TE (5 defense, 2 offense). When constructing mock drafts, I think it's important to see where we are losing depth, and its clear that the defense will be losing quite a bit if these players aren't retained. Before anyone says it, I don't consider either kicker to be a key contributor because they are easily replaced.

I included their salary and cap hits for this year to show how much they cost this year, but at the moment I don't have an exact estimate of capspace for next year. At this point, I think we will have 8-10 million free after the new Brown and Schaub contracts, but I feel that is slightly optomistic. JJo also restructured this year and pushed 1.3 million into each of the next three years. I think 8 million is a solid cap space projection, assuming nothing else changes. Remember though, about 3-5 million of that will need to be retained for signing draft picks, depending on how many high picks we have. (trade ups cost more than just the draft picks and players used, you guarantee a lot more money to high picks)

Cap Casualties:

So given that we will likely be up against the cap once again, I have identified the most likely candidates to be cut or restructured. Here are the costs and savings for each.



The Guaranteed Pay for each of them is signing bonuses plus restructured money. Antonio's number is a bit higher than other sites may show because he restructured in 2011 to help us sign JJo and Manning. Wade doesn't have much left on his deal, but cutting him actually saves more money than Antonio. As far as I know, none of Walter's money is guaranteed, if anyone knows otherwise please post it.

Clearly something has to be done about Walter and Antonio. Antonio is not worth 9.8 million nor the 8.5 million that he was originally scheduled to make. Walter isn't worth 4.5 million and should take another paycut or head to Baltimore. The bottom line is that we could save 13.5 million by simply cutting these guys. That could make our cap space go up to about 20 million, which would enable us to sign retain our own free agents and possibly sign a new impact player or two.

Compensatory Picks:

In addition to the 7 picks that the Texans have in the 2013 draft, they will have 4 more compensatory picks coming their way. The Texans lost 4 qualifying free agents and signed zero. Yes, zero qualifying free agents signed.

Here is a listing of our guys, my projection for them, and some comparable comp picks that I was able to identify.



Mario is most definitely going to give us a 3rd in return. He has 10 sacks on the year and a huge contract. I couldn't find any TEs that were a good match for Dreessen, but given his salary and game time, I think a 5th is in order. Briesel is a guard who started all 13 games so far, but guards don't seem to garner high picks. I'm sure he's worth a 5th based on salary alone, but I doubt he results in a 4th. Jason Allen has barely played for the Bengals, so I doubt we get more than a 7th for him, but it's better than nothing.

Edit: Compensatory Pick Requirements:



Practice Squad 2012:

Another way to backfill depth is to call up practice squad players. Several of these guys have been with the team for a while and may be ready to step up to the 53 man roster. Currently we have these guys:


I think Pleasant may take Demps spot on the roster next year. I would love to see one of the TEs develop into a solid blocker and save us a late round draft pick. If Mondek could develop more, maybe he could become our swing tackle and we could let Newton stay at RT. Lots of options to consider.

Superb post. Excellent data presentation.
:clap:
Even *I* can understand our salary cap picture with this info.
How can I pin this sucker so I can refer back to it when needed???
 
Great read, can't help but wonder if some of that spare money will have to go on resigning Cush, and they'll surely already be looking ahead to how the hell they can keep hold of Watt as well.

Agree on the Antonio Smith stuff too. Dude is a really good cog but its a high price to pay for him and he's getting to an age where putting money in his hand now will mean more than the chance of a little more in the future. Lock him up for 2 extra years and convert to bonus, resign Cush, and work with what you have left.
 
Great read, can't help but wonder if some of that spare money will have to go on resigning Cush, and they'll surely already be looking ahead to how the hell they can keep hold of Watt as well.

Agree on the Antonio Smith stuff too. Dude is a really good cog but its a high price to pay for him and he's getting to an age where putting money in his hand now will mean more than the chance of a little more in the future. Lock him up for 2 extra years and convert to bonus, resign Cush, and work with what you have left.
To supply money to extend Cushing in 2014 as we did with Brown and Foster, we could bonus them out in 2014. We could also bonus out Johnathan Joseph so we should also be all right with players coming up in 2015 like Watt, Derek Newton and Kareem Jackson. Chris Myers in 2014 $5 m could Ben Jones replace him then? And let's not forget the guy we all love to hate Matt Schaub $10 m in 2014 could be bonused.

O D will be 32 in 2014 $4.4m?

Danieal Manning 32 in 2014 $4.5m?

I think we should have no problem keeping the stars we want if they are willing to work with Texans. Next two off season will be very interesting.
 
To supply money to extend Cushing in 2014 as we did with Brown and Foster, we could bonus them out in 2014. We could also bonus out Johnathan Joseph so we should also be all right with players coming up in 2015 like Watt, Derek Newton and Kareem Jackson. Chris Myers in 2014 $5 m could Ben Jones replace him then? And let's not forget the guy we all love to hate Matt Schaub $10 m in 2014 could be bonused.

O D will be 32 in 2014 $4.4m?

Danieal Manning 32 in 2014 $4.5m?

I think we should have no problem keeping the stars we want if they are willing to work with Texans. Next two off season will be very interesting.

i know next year the cap isnt going to move much but maybe by 2015 it should see a large upward swing? yes
 
i know next year the cap isnt going to move much but maybe by 2015 it should see a large upward swing? yes

Unfortunately, from what John Clayton reported, the cap will most likely remain flat through 2015.

It was supposed to be lower the first few years of the new CBA, but they struck some kind of deal; the result is a cap that hardly makes an upward move for at least a few more years.
 
Great read, can't help but wonder if some of that spare money will have to go on resigning Cush, and they'll surely already be looking ahead to how the hell they can keep hold of Watt as well.

Agree on the Antonio Smith stuff too. Dude is a really good cog but its a high price to pay for him and he's getting to an age where putting money in his hand now will mean more than the chance of a little more in the future. Lock him up for 2 extra years and convert to bonus, resign Cush, and work with what you have left.

I think Shaun Cody will be gone, too.
That is unless he takes a paycut.
 
My thoughts on 2013 Compensatory Draft Picks for HOU. Am I forgetting anyone?

Texans lost DE Mario Williams and will receive 3rd round pick.
Texans lost G Mike Brisiel and will receive a 5th round pick.
Texans lost CB Jason Allen and will receive a 6th round pick.
Texans lost TE Joel Dreessen and will receive a 6th round pick.


Texans lost FB Lawrence Vickers who is canceled out by signing of P Donnie Jones.
 
My thoughts on 2013 Compensatory Draft Picks for Houston. Am I forgetting anyone?

The Houston Texans lost Mario Williams and will receive 3rd round pick.
The Houston Texans lost Mike Brisiel and will receive a 5th round pick.
The Houston Texans lost Jason Allen and will receive a 6th round pick.
The Houston Texans lost Joel Dreessen and will receive a 6th round pick.


The Houston Texans lost Lawrence Vickers who is canceled out by Donnie Jones.

its rumored we get a 3rd and 3 6ths
 
Unfortunately, from what John Clayton reported, the cap will most likely remain flat through 2015.

It was supposed to be lower the first few years of the new CBA, but they struck some kind of deal; the result is a cap that hardly makes an upward move for at least a few more years.

From what I remember, it was going to increase a few percent each season or something, not just balloon in one year or 2 years
 
My thoughts on 2013 Compensatory Draft Picks for HOU. Am I forgetting anyone?

Texans lost DE Mario Williams and will receive 3rd round pick.
Texans lost G Mike Brisiel and will receive a 5th round pick.
Texans lost CB Jason Allen and will receive a 6th round pick.
Texans lost TE Joel Dreessen and will receive a 6th round pick.


Texans lost FB Lawrence Vickers who is canceled out by signing of P Donnie Jones.
More accurate to say Texans mayreceive...

I could see Dreesen bringing at least a fifth.
 
Well, I have been looking into comp picks a bit more since the topic came up again. I have to amend my initial projection to a 3,5,6,6. Here's where I'm at:

Texans2013CompensatoryPicks-1_zps7fcd99d0.jpg



Mario is a lock for a 3rd.

I believe Brisiel will be worth a 5th due to his 16 starts, 4 million a year AAV (Contract's Average Annual Value) and because he played the majority of the Raiders snaps this year.

I'm dropping Dreesen down to a 6th because his contract value is too low, and the Broncos didn't go as far in the playoffs as I thought they would. He had average TE stats (41 rec, 356 yards, 5 TDs), and played about 75% of their snaps. Had the Broncos made the AFCC or Super Bowl, I believe he would have moved up a round.

I'm putting Jason Allen as a 6th, but he's a wild card. His contract would normally be worth a 5th on AAV alone, but his snaps played is so low, that I think he will be dinged a round or two. I originally put him as a 7th because he started zero games, and only played defense for 3 snaps, the rest was special teams. I don't know how this will work out, he could be anywhere from a 5th to a 7th, but I'll take the conservative route and say 6th.

I found some info on compensatory picks last year with AAV ranges for the picks and this was the matrix for 2012. These ranges can change, but we could have anywhere from a 3, 5,5,6 to a 3,6,7,7.

3 - $6.5/$7 million and greater
4 - $5 to $6.5/$7 million
5 - $4 to $5 million
6 - $2.5/2.75 to $4 million
7 - $1 to $2.5/2.75 million
 
My thoughts on 2013 Compensatory Draft Picks for HOU. Am I forgetting anyone?

Texans lost DE Mario Williams and will receive 3rd round pick.
Texans lost G Mike Brisiel and will receive a 5th round pick.
Texans lost CB Jason Allen and will receive a 6th round pick.
Texans lost TE Joel Dreessen and will receive a 6th round pick.


Texans lost FB Lawrence Vickers who is canceled out by signing of P Donnie Jones.

Where did you get this info? Vickers was cut, and will not affect comp picks. Donnie jones was a minimum deal, and won't affect comp picks.
 
I need some confirmation.
As I understand it, each FA we signed cancels out one that we lost.

Lost:
Mario
Allen
Brisiel
Dreessen

Signed:
James
Donnie Jones.

It looks to me like we will only get two comp pick:
A third for Mario and a sixth for Allen (due to the value of the contract they signed with the new teams.)

Did I miss something ?
 
I think the caliber of the FA determines if the compensatory pick gets canceled out. So for instance, I lbelieve Jones and James did not affect how many compensatory picks the Texans are awarded.
 
We signed more than those 2. Off the top of my head we signed Shayne Graham, Ball, Forsett, Harris and I'm sure I'm missing others. But I don't think players who get signed for insignificant money count against teams. Dutch projected an additional 3rd, 4th and 6th IIRC.
 
I need some confirmation.
As I understand it, each FA we signed cancels out one that we lost.

Lost:
Mario
Allen
Brisiel
Dreessen

Signed:
James
Donnie Jones.

It looks to me like we will only get two comp pick:
A third for Mario and a sixth for Allen (due to the value of the contract they signed with the new teams.)

Did I miss something ?


Rackers' deal may also have reached a qualifying offer... it was certainly more than the two you listed.

According to anything I have seen, the Texans should qualify for 4 compensatory picks... with one being a 3rd,

The question is what they get for Briesel and Dreessen (4th-6th) and whether Allen will get them a 6th or 7th (his lack of play may knock him down).

My best guess: 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th.
 
Rackers' deal may also have reached a qualifying offer... it was certainly more than the two you listed.

According to anything I have seen, the Texans should qualify for 4 compensatory picks... with one being a 3rd,

The question is what they get for Briesel and Dreessen (4th-6th) and whether Allen will get them a 6th or 7th (his lack of play may knock him down).

My best guess: 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th.
I don't think Rackers deal, or anyone the Texans signed reached the minimum qualifying offer threshold. Based upon what I have seen and read over the years, I think the actual contract is where the round of compensation is slotted, then performance based inside that round is given credence.

Mario is an obvious third. Brisiel and Allen both signed deals that averaged $4 million, and I think that puts their compensation firmly in the 6th round. Dreessen's deal was for less than $3 million/year, but I think that will be good enough for the 6th round, as well. My guess at this point is one 3rd and 3 6th rounders. This guy adamjt13 did a great job at guessing the compensatory slots, but hasn't done them in awhile.
 
Hey, maybe I'll get the three sixth rounders I was clamoring for.

I guess it's time to go look for a potential diamond in the rough.
 
Comp pics come at the end of the round, right ? For example, if we'd get a third-round comp for Mario, we'd get the 33rd pic of the 3rd round (assuming there's no other comps in that round) ?
 
Comp pics come at the end of the round, right ? For example, if we'd get a third-round comp for Mario, we'd get the 33rd pic of the 3rd round (assuming there's no other comps in that round) ?

Yep, it's just that the order of those picks can vary depending on how many others there are. Usually there are quite a few 5/6/7th round comp picks, and the order of those depends on the rating given by the secret formula. The dumb thing is, if we end up with a 5th, 6th, and 7th, we won't know for certain which player generated which pick. Only way to know for sure is if they are all the same round. Seems really dumb to me that the NFL protects this formula and the results like it's the recipe for Coke. It's really not that significant, and it should be made public to GMs and fans.
 
Well, the Raiders lost Aso and got the third rounder, so I think it's safe to say that we'll also get a third.

The Raiders also got the first comp pick in the 4th and they took my dark horse Miles Burris, LB.

He started 15 games for them, recording 2 sacks, 1 Int, and 96 tackles.
 
I need some confirmation.
As I understand it, each FA we signed cancels out one that we lost.

Lost:
Mario
Allen
Brisiel
Dreessen

Signed:
James
Donnie Jones.

It looks to me like we will only get two comp pick:
A third for Mario and a sixth for Allen (due to the value of the contract they signed with the new teams.)

Did I miss something ?
IIRC the timing of when the player is signed effects it. Phillips stated in Chronicle that he told James he would sign him after cut off date so it would not cancel a comp. Not sure about Jones but may have been same.
 
Frrom the OP guys...

2012 salaries are as follows:
Shayne Graham: 2012: $925,000
Bradie James: 2012: $825,000
Donnie Jones: 2012: $825,000
Alan Ball: 6/2/2012: Signed an undisclosed contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Justin Forsett: 6/2/2012: Signed a one-year contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Ryan Harris: 9/1/2012: Signed a one-year, $700,000 contract.

All of the above are minimum or ineligible deals and do not affect our comp picks. If you have a specific player to ask about, let me know and I can look it up real quick.
 
Frrom the OP guys...

2012 salaries are as follows:
Shayne Graham: 2012: $925,000
Bradie James: 2012: $825,000
Donnie Jones: 2012: $825,000
Alan Ball: 6/2/2012: Signed an undisclosed contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Justin Forsett: 6/2/2012: Signed a one-year contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Ryan Harris: 9/1/2012: Signed a one-year, $700,000 contract.

All of the above are minimum or ineligible deals and do not affect our comp picks. If you have a specific player to ask about, let me know and I can look it up real quick.

Good.
 
The Raiders also got the first comp pick in the 4th and they took my dark horse Miles Burris, LB.
The Raiders received that pick for losing TE Zach Miller (5 years, $34 million) to the Seahawks.
 
Dutch, can we have an update on this.

Let's start with all the active contracts (not counting the recent future/reserve contracts for guys like Keenum).

Let's assume we don't cut any of these guys. How many do we have and what are their cap spaces for 2013?
 
What would be the savings for cutting OD.

Probably not enough to replace him with an equal or more productive player.

I think its safe to say the same thing about Walter who would only save ~$2m if cut.


The way I look at those situations is: Can you replace them with an equal or greater piece with the savings against the cap. If you cant , its probably not a wise cut.
 
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