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DE's entering the draft

Texecutioner

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Alright, let's discuss the DE's coming out. It doesn't seem to be a lot of them this year.

People need to stop saying we need to go after Arakpo. He'll be gone by the 15th pick, so what DE would possibly be available with the 15th pick that would be worth taking with that pick over any other defensive player?? Realistic options guys.

Anyone think that Tyson Jackson or Zach Potter would be worth the pick at 15? Or would it just be smarter to take the best player available on defense with the pick since Orakpo and Michael Johnson should both be gone?
 
Texecutioner said:
Alright, let's discuss the DE's coming out. It doesn't seem to be a lot of them this year.

People need to stop saying we need to go after Arakpo. He'll be gone by the 15th pick, so what DE would possibly be available with the 15th pick that would be worth taking with that pick over any other defensive player?? Realistic options guys.

Anyone think that Tyson Jackson or Zach Potter would be worth the pick at 15? Or would it just be smarter to take the best player available on defense with the pick since Orakpo and Michael Johnson should both be gone?
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Don't forget that Smith and Kubes thought Okoye would be gone too. I think Orakpo will be gone also but who knows? What if he is 3 spots above us? Do we offer a 5th to trade up? IMO, the first round offers more value to us with a free safety (especially after a trade down) and DE in 2nd. These are two needs that need to be addressed day one.
 
badboy said:
Don't forget that Smith and Kubes thought Okoye would be gone too. I think Orakpo will be gone also but who knows? What if he is 3 spots above us? Do we offer a 5th to trade up? IMO, the first round offers more value to us with a free safety (especially after a trade down) and DE in 2nd. These are two needs that need to be addressed day one.
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Yeah, I think we HAVE to go DE and S with our first two picks. It just depends on who is there on the board and who is off as to who we pick first.

I don't think that there will be any way that Orakpo slips that far though. He will be a work out warrior in the combine and will stun the scouts I can assure you. If that situation were to come though where he is that close I would totally trade up for him if it meant a 5th rounder to give up, but I think it would be more like a 3rd. That would be tough to give up.

Let's say that we get Mays with our first pick or even do the trade down thing and get Moore like you suggested earlier later in the first, then what DE's do you think could be available in the mid 2nd round that would be worth taking with that pick?
 
This does seem to be a difficult year for picking a DE. Other that Orakpo, I think that Everette Brown will go high in the 1st round and would be worth our #15 pick as for Tyson Jackson he's already on the Texans squad, his name is Anthony Weaver and we don't need another one. Michael Johnson is a tough pick he's got lots of potential due to physical size, and moderate production, but if you've seen him play he's lazy. He takes lots of plays off and lacks physical conditioning and heart. He gets pushed out of the way on running plays to his side easily and doesn't pursue running plays on the backside. Once is a while he'll pin his ears back and go after the QB and get a sack or hurry on the QB but then he'll take the next few plays off. He's going to need lots of coaching and motivation. He's a risky project player with lots of potential but we don't need projects we need immediate production. Greg Hardy might also be possible for us at #15 but he's got injury concerns. When healthy though he's great.
 
Wolf6151 said:
This does seem to be a difficult year for picking a DE. Other that Orakpo, I think that Everette Brown will go high in the 1st round and would be worth our #15 pick as for Tyson Jackson he's already on the Texans squad, his name is Anthony Weaver and we don't need another one. Michael Johnson is a tough pick he's got lots of potential due to physical size, and moderate production, but if you've seen him play he's lazy. He takes lots of plays off and lacks physical conditioning and heart. He gets pushed out of the way on running plays to his side easily and doesn't pursue running plays on the backside. Once is a while he'll pin his ears back and go after the QB and get a sack or hurry on the QB but then he'll take the next few plays off. He's going to need lots of coaching and motivation. He's a risky project player with lots of potential but we don't need projects we need immediate production. Greg Hardy might also be possible for us at #15 but he's got injury concerns. When healthy though he's great.
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I agree with pretty much everything you said here. Everything I have read about Johnson seems to be the same thing you just wrote.

I don't know anything about Tyson Jackson, so that is why I had asked. Don't want another Weaver.

That is the problem that I had a strong feeling we would have being at the 15th pick. The top tier DE's usually go in the top 10 to 12 picks at the highest and there usually is only about 3 of them MAX that look like Studs. There is always a sleeper out there in later rounds, but of course that is a crap shoot knowing which one it is because they all have certain potential.

It looks like we will most likely have to go Safety with the first pick unless we trade up, and I doubt the Texans would give up a pick to trade up.
 
Texecutioner said:
Alright, let's discuss the DE's coming out. It doesn't seem to be a lot of them this year.

People need to stop saying we need to go after Arakpo. He'll be gone by the 15th pick, so what DE would possibly be available with the 15th pick that would be worth taking with that pick over any other defensive player?? Realistic options guys.

Anyone think that Tyson Jackson or Zach Potter would be worth the pick at 15? Or would it just be smarter to take the best player available on defense with the pick since Orakpo and Michael Johnson should both be gone?
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There actually are a lot of DE's comnig out this year. A lot of threads have been talking about them specifically already. This year there seem to be more college DE's who would be best suited for the 3-4 OLB spot similar to Ware in the NFL. Some of the top college DE's in fact could very easily fall into that group, guys like: Everette Brown, Maybin, George Selvie, the guy from TCU. It's too early to really get into this stuff, but there will be a few teams hoping to beat the perception on these guys.

As for Tyson Jackson: He isn't worth the 15th pick, nor is he worth a first round pick, nor is he worth any pick to the Texans. He plays a lot like Anthony Weaver or Marcus Spears (also from LSU). He projects pretty easily to a 3-4 DE. He is very strong at the POA and gets good leverage. He is not that explosive and he lacks advanced pass rushing moves. He has a wide base and a large frame. He has had trouble getting up the field in a vert. fashion. He should be a mid-late 2nd round pick to a 3-4 team (IMO).

Zach Potter: He isn't worth the 15th pick in round one at least, nor is he a first round talent. Potter is going to be a late round guy. Think like 6th-undrafted range.

There is also no guarentee that Orakpo is gone by 15, and especially not for Michael Johnson. Each player (as with 99% of draft eligible players) has their flaws.
 
I think the only reason most of the players may be gone by our pick is because we're selecting #15... not because they are true bonafide nfl stars already. The top of this draft seems to be pretty fluid, moreso than in recent years. All these players have their flaws. I would say Aaron Curry and Malcolm Jenkins are to two 'studs' of any of the players. Most throw Orakpo in there but I'm not even sure he's going to be such a great 4-3 DE. He's awesome no doubt but I would not trade up for him. Lots of potential homeruns and lots of potential busts in the top 10 this year. These teams ahead of us need some OL help so I'd suspect the top LT's to be gone soley for that reason. Michael Oher is a guy that could go #1 overall or could fall to our pick, Greg Hardy has 1st round talent but how the last of the season played out, I see him falling- I'd wait for him with our 2nd rd pick before taking him at 15.
 
I've also been thinking that Bob McNair will probably be hesitant to take another high draft pick/high pay check on the D-line especially at DE since Weaver is still under contract for another 2 years and cutting him would mean adding lots of dead money to the payroll. Bob don't want to pay guys millions to sit on their butts. Also with a new DC coming in and most of our guys being young on the D-line they might want to wait and see what the new DC and assistants can do with our existing players.

If we don't get a DE in the 1st round then Greg Hardy MIGHT be available in the 2nd round. As for Mays, I think that he'll be gone by the time we pick at #15, I think that Denver will take him before us. Realisticly, Everette Brown, Michael Johnson, or Greg Hardy could be our pick for DE at #15 and Mays will most likely be gone as well. Taking the BPA on defense route could be our pick but if none of the great players falls to us at #15 then a trade down could be a real possibility. It wouldn't surprise me if we took a CB or OLB in the 1st round either. Honestly with a new DC coming in anything is possible.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
I think the only reason most of the players may be gone by our pick is because we're selecting #15... not because they are true bonafide nfl stars already. The top of this draft seems to be pretty fluid, moreso than in recent years. All these players have their flaws. I would say Aaron Curry and Malcolm Jenkins are to two 'studs' of any of the players. Most throw Orakpo in there but I'm not even sure he's going to be such a great 4-3 DE. He's awesome no doubt but I would not trade up for him. Lots of potential homeruns and lots of potential busts in the top 10 this year. These teams ahead of us need some OL help so I'd suspect the top LT's to be gone soley for that reason. Michael Oher is a guy that could go #1 overall or could fall to our pick, Greg Hardy has 1st round talent but how the last of the season played out, I see him falling- I'd wait for him with our 2nd rd pick before taking him at 15.
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All valid points. I would love for Aaron Curry to slip to us in the first round. He would easily be worth using our 1st round pick on. We need a DE or a S more, but Curry would be totally worth the pick. I doubt that he would slip that far though.
 
Texecutioner said:
Yeah, I think we HAVE to go DE and S with our first two picks. It just depends on who is there on the board and who is off as to who we pick first.

I don't think that there will be any way that Orakpo slips that far though. He will be a work out warrior in the combine and will stun the scouts I can assure you. If that situation were to come though where he is that close I would totally trade up for him if it meant a 5th rounder to give up, but I think it would be more like a 3rd. That would be tough to give up.

Let's say that we get Mays with our first pick or even do the trade down thing and get Moore like you suggested earlier later in the first, then what DE's do you think could be available in the mid 2nd round that would be worth taking with that pick?
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http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=DE&draftyear=2009&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC
I am researching Brandon Graham.
http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=1780323
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=22093&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncf%2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d22093

Looks as if he is terrific at ILB and could be DE in passing situations.
 
The safety class is pretty deep this year. So I think targeting a DE with our first pick is a good plan. I'll take a gamble on a guy like Brown or Orakpo with the 15th pick. They may not be ideal for the 4-3, but they sure as hell are better than Weaver.

If Brown, Orakpo, and Mays are all gone I'd go with BJ Raji (DT/NT).
 
badboy said:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=DE&draftyear=2009&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC
I am researching Brandon Graham.
http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=1780323
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=22093&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncf%2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d22093

Looks as if he is terrific at ILB and could be DE in passing situations.
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Don't really want Michael Johnson. As Wolf pointed out he seems like he is a lazy player and takes plays off even though he has the skill and size. Every report and article I read on Johnson the laziness and lack of effort criticisms seem to be consistent with what Wolf pointed out. We don't need another guy like that.

Graham seems rather interesting though. Good read up right there on him and he sounds like someone we could use. The more I think about it, I really wouldn't mind at all if we could find a really good pass rushing Outside LB to help the pass rush. Look at how many great pass rushing LB's there were this year and the impact they had like Harrison, Porter, Lewis, Suggs, and Woodley. If we can't get a stud at DE in the first and Mays is gone I wouldn't mind it if we drafted a really good pass rushing LB. That was the idea with Roosevelt Colvin any way, and although Colven was a bust for us I liked the idea that Smith had in getting him. It just didn't work out because he wasn't healthy.
 
My ideal 1st day draft would be 1st rd: BJ Raji and 2nd rd: Greg Hardy.

That would give us Mario--Amobi--Raji--Hardy
That would give us wiggle room to cut some players or put them at backup where they belong. Okam and Raji alternating would be great. Hardy may start as a situational pass rusher and ease his way into the starter role by midseason or the end maybe?

With the new DC, they may be able to do some work with Dunta, Reeves, Bennett and Molden as our CBs. A safety may be able to be found in the 3rd?
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
My ideal 1st day draft would be 1st rd: BJ Raji and 2nd rd: Greg Hardy.

That would give us Mario--Amobi--Raji--Hardy
That would give us wiggle room to cut some players or put them at backup where they belong. Okam and Raji alternating would be great. Hardy may start as a situational pass rusher and ease his way into the starter role by midseason or the end maybe?

With the new DC, they may be able to do some work with Dunta, Reeves, Bennett and Molden as our CBs. A safety may be able to be found in the 3rd?
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That would be pretty sweet if we got Raji and Hardy.
 
I'd rather not have two rookies starting on the D-line next yr...
 
Polo said:
I'd rather not have two rookies starting on the D-line next yr...
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That's a very good point and I pretty much feel the same way. Hardy would probably be a situational pass rusher for a while, not a starter. Raji would be an instant starter on this team. With Okam and TJ backing him up.

Look at our offensive line though last year. Brisiel started all of 4 games before this season and we had a rookie left tackle. So I wouldn't put it against this staff to run the most talented players we had out there... then again it's not like those two were playing right next to each other. I would think though, that it'd be less risky to have those rookies on the DL than to have them on the OL.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Everette Brown declared for the NFL draft yesterday, per ESPN.
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This is a guy at DE i can go with however i am not impressed with any of the DE picks this year . The rack has just made himself invisible when i have watched the texas team . It will surprise me if the texans pick a DE this draft at number one but this gm and coach have had many surprises so far . :poker:
 
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Marcus said:
What are Everette Brown's size/weight/speed statistics compared to Dwight Freeney's?
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Brown is expected to come in at 6'4" 255 at the combine. Freeney is 6'1" 268 per nfl.com.

Brown is expected to run a 4.6, I have no idea what Freeney runs.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Brown is expected to come in at 6'4" 255 at the combine. Freeney is 6'1" 268 per nfl.com.

Brown is expected to run a 4.6, I have no idea what Freeney runs.
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brown projects to the outside, has range & length excellent athlete. #1 position OLB in a 3-4 #2 position DE in a 4-3.

freeeny is a 4.5 guy under 6-1 266 coming out of Syracuse. he's always been an inside guy, built to sustain contact, explosiveness with array of pass rushing moves. #1 position DE in a 4-3 #2 position ILB in a 3-4.

thats the way I see em :)
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
My ideal 1st day draft would be 1st rd: BJ Raji and 2nd rd: Greg Hardy.

That would give us Mario--Amobi--Raji--Hardy
That would give us wiggle room to cut some players or put them at backup where they belong. Okam and Raji alternating would be great. Hardy may start as a situational pass rusher and ease his way into the starter role by midseason or the end maybe?

With the new DC, they may be able to do some work with Dunta, Reeves, Bennett and Molden as our CBs. A safety may be able to be found in the 3rd?
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Your scenario works, if you believe you will land the power back in later rounds or can get a FA. I'm in the mind set that a PB that can get across that goal line for 6 is more important than a DE that can rush or a DT to stop the other guy. We are great getting to red zone, but having to settle for 3 points leads to various objuects in my apartment becoming airborne. If we got 7 points 1/2 of the time we are in red zone that greatly effects W column.
 
Texecutioner said:
Now that changes things a lot. I still think that he would probably go before our 15th pick and so would Orakpo, but that certainly makes the chances of one of them being there at 15 a lot greater.
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I heard some rumors about him declaring due to some issue with school? ANyone know anything that would impact his draft status? Another player in da mix!
 
Are you asking about Orakpo or Maybin? I follow PSU pretty closely, and as far as I know Maybin has always maintained good academic standing. Concerning the Texans, I love the kid, but I'm not sure he'd be a very good pick for them for value if we're talking 1st round. He's VERY raw. As he's only started 10 games, he hasn't developed a large array of pass-rushing moves. Under 250 lbs, he's had difficulty gaining more weight on his frame, so while he held up fairly well against the run in college, he may be susceptible in the NFL. In a 4-3, unless he can bulk up, I see him largely as a situational pass rusher. Could he be a 4-3 OLB in addition? His coverage skills are an unknown, and how many have made that transition? I imagine he holds a lot more value for teams looking for a 3-4 OLB, as he's already played stand up DE.
 
beerlover said:
brown projects to the outside, has range & length excellent athlete. #1 position OLB in a 3-4 #2 position DE in a 4-3.

freeeny is a 4.5 guy under 6-1 266 coming out of Syracuse. he's always been an inside guy, built to sustain contact, explosiveness with array of pass rushing moves. #1 position DE in a 4-3 #2 position ILB in a 3-4.

thats the way I see em :)
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QFT.

People always compare the potential 3-4 OLB/college DE's to Dwight Freeny when trying to say they can play in the 4-3. Freeny is shorter, he has good bulk, and has excellent moves and uses his hands well.
 
I think a good player to compare Brown to physically is Robert Mathis (6'2 245 per NFL.com) except Brown is a little bit taller and a little bit bigger.
 
nunusguy said:
"6-foot-4 inch, 236-pound "
********************************
Very smallish for a 4-3 DE ? But I dunno, as bad as we need some help from an edge-rusher opposite Mario, maybe it's worth considering using our top pick on a part-time player who'd be on the field for passing downs only ?
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if nothing else he drops another player down. to me he is a top 10 prospect & top of my board if available. his speed is electric coming off the edge, smart, excellent open field instincts. talk about thunder & lightning :marionaner:

01/10/09 - All-American defensive end Aaron Maybin has played his last down for Penn State. Sources confirmed last night that Maybin, a redshirt sophomore, plans to enter the NFL draft in April. Maybin, who did not return a phone call, is expected to make his announcement official in the next few days. The deadline for underclassmen to declare for the draft is Thursday. He led the Nittany Lions in sacks (12) and tackles for losses (20) and forced a team-high three fumbles. Maybin, 6 feet 4 and 235 pounds, was a finalist for the Bednarik Award and the Hendricks Award this past season and was a first-team All-Big Ten pick. Some NFL experts project Maybin as a first-round pick, although some scouts and coaches believe he does not weigh enough to be an every-down player. He very well could end up at outside linebacker. Primarily a third-down player who was used in passing situations in 2007, Maybin began preseason drills as the backup to preseason All-American Maurice Evans. But when Evans was suspended and Jerome Hayes had a season-ending ACL injury, Maybin seized the opportunity and became a star in his one season as a starter. - Ron Musselman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
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see, I'll take a another DL in the 1st rd. but he's gotta be bpa
 
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We should be able to make a play for something other than DE in the first since there is so much depth

1. Maulauga/Mays
2. Selvie/Brown/Maybin
3. Ron Brace
 
Greg Hardy to declare for the Draft:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/news/story?id=3829971

Mississippi defensive end Greg Hardy is expected to confirm as early as Tuesday that he will enter the NFL draft, a person close to Hardy said.

Hardy had 9.5 tackles for loss, including 8.5 sacks, in only eight games this season. The 6-foot-4, 265-pound junior had 10 sacks as a sophomore and is considered one of the top pass rush specialists in the upcoming draft by Scouts, Inc.

Hardy, of Millington, Tenn., is rated as the No. 30 overall player by Scouts Inc.

Mississippi junior defensive lineman John Jerry is expected to return for another season, the source said. Jerry is a 6-foot-5, 350 pound tackle.
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Maybe we could trade back like last year, draft Hardy late in the first, and pick up an additional draft pick or two.
 
All-Big 12 defensive end Brandon Williams, should be on Texans radar in 3rd. productive for Tech with 13 sacks in 2008, filed paperwork Monday to enter the NFL draft and plans to forgo his senior season.
 
beerlover said:
All-Big 12 defensive end Brandon Williams, should be on Texans radar in 3rd. productive for Tech with 13 sacks in 2008, filed paperwork Monday to enter the NFL draft and plans to forgo his senior season.
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13 sacks? That has my attention. I'll have to look this guy up and research him some more. If we don't go DE in the first, he might be an interesting prospect.
 
Texecutioner said:
13 sacks? That has my attention. I'll have to look this guy up and research him some more. If we don't go DE in the first, he might be an interesting prospect.
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12.5 tackles for loss & 6 sacks as sophomore. check out tape of the Cotton Bowl vs. Ole Miss went up against Pro Caliber tackle Oher, displayed good speed to edge, high motor something you really love in a DE who just doesn't quit, excellent to eltie size @ 6-5 252. sleeper pick now could become ascending player with strong combine & workouts.

sidenote: the Sr. DE class is only average at best, the underclassman like Hardy & Brandon Williams make things a bit more interesting if you need to address this position (Texans).
 
Williams impressed me far more than Hardy in that game, especially when you factor-in who was playing across from Williams. Hardy was Mr. Anonymity, which is not a good thing for a player aspiring to be big-time pass-rusher in the NFL.
 
Williams was the only Tech defensive player that showed up for that game. He brought it to Oher on several plays. He is a legit NFL prospect at DE.
 
Maurice Evans, Penn State Jr DE 6-2 264, is reportedly going to declare. He was last year's version of Maybin, with 12.5 sacks, 21.5 TFL, and 5 FF as a sophomore, but after being suspended for 3 games, lost his starting spot to Maybin and didn't have the same impact. He literally took over games last year and was a preseason AA.
 
rollinstone18 said:
Greg Hardy is returning to school.

link
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Phew, losing him and Jerry from that DL would have been a major blow... not to mention losing Mike Oher. I think this could be a pretty good move for Hardy to get his foot fully healed, show he's committed to football and play in all the games next season. That will probably help his draft status. It will be interesting to see how opposing teams focus on him with Jerry out of the way.
 
Hardy could be the #1 DE next year if he has a good, healthy year. I'd also watch out for Carlos Dunlap at Florida. Florida will have all 11 starters on defense return. Their secondary next year will consist of the same starting 4 obviously, three juniors and a sophomore, with senior Pierre-Louis as their nickelback.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Hardy could be the #1 DE next year if he has a good, healthy year. I'd also watch out for Carlos Dunlap at Florida. Florida will have all 11 starters on defense return. Their secondary next year will consist of the same starting 4 obviously, three juniors and a sophomore, with senior Pierre-Louis as their nickelback.
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What's the deal with Myron Rolle? I know he's going off to Oxford but does that mean he will miss playing football for a year?
 
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