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Denver @ New England

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IDEXAN

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http://www.si.com/game/1382411/box-score
*****
Anybody else watching this ?
Manning hardly invincible today, but Pats looking really strong, 27-7 @ halftime.
Pats Edleman really a versatle player being used as a back/receiver/punt-returner, having a big day. 7th round draft pick.
 
Andrew Brandt ‏@adbrandt
Stories from a couple weeks ago: Broncos unbeatable, Brady washed up. Stay tuned.

Boom. RT @wingoz that my be my favorite line of the season.."That's Manning's longest run of the season... 4 yards"
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The NFL can be a brutally humbling experience, even for its greatest players.
Just take Payton Manning who a couple weeks ago was totally in control, confidence and even suave as he talked post-game about the TD passing record he had just broken after a big Broncos win in Denver. But last night just after getting a thrashing by his nemesis Tom Brady and Brady's Patriots, during the post-game interviews Manning was stammering and stuttering like a crushed high school kid who had just been dumped by his steady girl friend.
 
I wonder if Peyton can hum these to the 'Nationwide Is On Your Side' tune?

Why can't I beat Belichek?

I thought Tom Brady was done?

At least it wasn't the playoffs.

Why is my forehead so wide?
 
That beatdown that KC gave NE may have been a bad day for the NFL, it re-woke the sleeping giant and this NE team is playing pissed every week.
 
That Tom Brady....he's so over-the-hill and washed up....well, according to some folks at Texans Talk not too long ago...

*cough*BigBen,too*cough*
 
I just don't understand why people hate the Patriots so much, other than jealousy. They take a roster full of unknowns outside Brady and almost hang 50 on the Broncos vaunted defense. In terrible weather. It's just good football

We live in a special time. People will talk about Brady v Peyton for as long as the NfL matters
 
gtexan02 said:
I just don't understand why people hate the Patriots so much, other than jealousy. They take a roster full of unknowns outside Brady and almost hang 50 on the Broncos vaunted defense. In terrible weather. It's just good football

We live in a special time. People will talk about Brady v Peyton for as long as the NfL matters
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You live in Boston. What are your thoughts on Mallett?
 
gtexan02 said:
I just don't understand why people hate the Patriots so much, other than jealousy. They take a roster full of unknowns outside Brady and almost hang 50 on the Broncos vaunted defense. In terrible weather. It's just good football

We live in a special time. People will talk about Brady v Peyton for as long as the NfL matters
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It has been amazing to me for years as to why people bash the Patriots so much considering how they stay successful. It is definitely jealousy, but for some reason Manning doesn't get that hatred because he talks clumsy and acts like a good ole boy while Brady is this smooth GQ model type of guy that is married to models.

What I find so flawed though is when people try to compare accomplishments for both QB's and how they completely refuse to acknowledge how much more successful Brady has been in the post season. His post season career trumps Manning's career and Brady has done all of this with sub par talent while Manning had two HOF WR's for years in Indy and two HOF RB's in Indy as well. Brady has a bunch of scrubs at WR his entire career outside of the few years he had with Moss and part of Welker's few years, and Brady still has his own records and the best post season record in NFL history.

People say sometimes that Brady needs one more ring to be the best of all time, but he already has the best post season record of anyone and that includes Joe Montana.
 
Showtime100 said:
Guilty! I don't even remember if I said anything on the board, but I was thinking it.
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It's all good, man. Like 'cak said, you are man enough to admit it, and your perspective was probably based in analysis and not emotion/envy.

We can usually perceive when players are going downhill, but the one exception is HoF QBs. The amount of knowledge that they accumulate in their brains can often overcome their diminishing physical skills.

For instance, I never thought Favre would be able to do anything after GB, but he did have a great season with the Vikings at the end.

gtexan02 said:
I just don't understand why people hate the Patriots so much, other than jealousy. They take a roster full of unknowns outside Brady and almost hang 50 on the Broncos vaunted defense. In terrible weather. It's just good football

We live in a special time. People will talk about Brady v Peyton for as long as the NfL matters
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I sort of jumped on Brady's bandwagon back in 2001 when Bledsoe went down. It was a great underdog story for a 6th round pick to be given an opportunity and I really respected his clutch mentality. Since then, he's been fun to watch, and he's the counter-balance to Manning (who I could never root for being a Colt and all).

What is great is that the talking heads predicted the end of the great QB era when guys like Montana, Marino, Elway, Aikman, etc, retired, but the 2000s would not be the same without Brady and Manning (not to mention Brees and Rodgers and Big Ben).
 
If I were an owner I would have offered Belichick the keys to a team with a small slice of the team. The man is frigging god.
 
toronto said:
If I were an owner I would have offered Belichick the keys to a team with a small slice of the team. The man is frigging god.
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He really isn't. He is a terrible GM honestly. He wins because he has Brady. The same reason why the Packers win which makes Ted Thompson and McCarthy look good. Rodgers does that. McCarthy would be a coordinator somewhere right now if it wasn't for Rodgers. So would BB.
 
Texecutioner said:
He really isn't. He is a terrible GM honestly. He wins because he has Brady. The same reason why the Packers win which makes Ted Thompson and McCarthy look good. Rodgers does that. McCarthy would be a coordinator somewhere right now if it wasn't for Rodgers. So would BB.
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How do you explain the Matt Cassel year v the Curtis Painter year with the Colts?
 
santo said:
You live in Boston. What are your thoughts on Mallett?
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I honestly haven't seen him play. I don't really follow the Pats, and certainly don't see the Patriots preseason games. There really weren't many upset fans after the trade -- I don't think people here really saw him as having much potential.
 
gtexan02 said:
I honestly haven't seen him play. I don't really follow the Pats, and certainly don't see the Patriots preseason games. There really weren't many upset fans after the trade -- I don't think people here really saw him as having much potential.
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Thanks. I guess we just have to hope for the best.
 
Texecutioner said:
He really isn't. He is a terrible GM honestly. He wins because he has Brady. The same reason why the Packers win which makes Ted Thompson and McCarthy look good. Rodgers does that. McCarthy would be a coordinator somewhere right now if it wasn't for Rodgers. So would BB.
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There are other teams that have had great QBs that fell short - after 12 years in a row of the team hitting 10 wins plus, 3 SBs, 2 more appearances and aside from that always in the mix?

Its easy to give Brady a ton of credit and I believe he's now one of the 3 best of alltime, but there are many other players that have contributed. He's turned other people's trash into his treasure. He always shows balls and vision on draft day, and anyone who comes to that team understands "The Patriot Way" and not Brady wins us every game singlehandedly.

It wasn't Brady that returned that punt, it wasn't Brady that sacked Manning on a 3 man rush, that was Titans' castoff Akeem Ayers.

I've resisted giving BB too much credit and throwing it all on Brady, but its a hell of a lot more than just him.
 
toronto said:
There are other teams that have had great QBs that fell short - after 12 years in a row of the team hitting 10 wins plus, 3 SBs, 2 more appearances and aside from that always in the mix?

Its easy to give Brady a ton of credit and I believe he's now one of the 3 best of alltime, but there are many other players that have contributed. He's turned other people's trash into his treasure. He always shows balls and vision on draft day, and anyone who comes to that team understands "The Patriot Way" and not Brady wins us every game singlehandedly.

It wasn't Brady that returned that punt, it wasn't Brady that sacked Manning on a 3 man rush, that was Titans' castoff Akeem Ayers.

I've resisted giving BB too much credit and throwing it all on Brady, but its a hell of a lot more than just him.
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I don't think tex doubts BB as a coach, just his role as GM.
 
santo said:
Thanks. I guess we just have to hope for the best.
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I want to be excited, but it's tough. I've tried to gauge people's thoughts on Mallet and they are very neutral. I think he'll be enough of an upgrade over Fitz that we will see rewards from the change -- I just don't know if he can be the guy going forward
 
To think a month ago that Texans fans called Brady washed up and weren't willing to trade a 1st and AJ for 3 yrs of Brady. These fans don't deserve a QB like Brady. Brady is a GOAT.
 
gtexan02 said:
I want to be excited, but it's tough. I've tried to gauge people's thoughts on Mallet and they are very neutral. I think he'll be enough of an upgrade over Fitz that we will see rewards from the change -- I just don't know if he can be the guy going forward
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Yep, We don't know if Mallett is the guy. But I am sure looking forward to finding out.
 
infantrycak said:
I don't think tex doubts BB as a coach, just his role as GM.
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I've gone around and around this issue with Tex before (we always agree to disagree in the end). But, my take is that Tom Brady cannot do it alone. The Patriots have won 10+ games every season except one since 2001, and that is with players that Belichick the GM has drafted.

I will not say he is the greatest GM, but he certainly knows how to find diamonds in the rough and players that fit his system. I doubt many people would call him a "terrible" GM.

And I'd take BB the GM over Rick Smith every day of the week, fwiw.
 
Section516 said:
How do you explain the Matt Cassel year v the Curtis Painter year with the Colts?
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Really? The Patriots had just come off a year with the best team of all time arguably. They were pretty stacked all over the team. They still had Moss and Welker and a pretty good defense that was aging. Cassel was a guy that no one had a lot of film on, and he got into a rhythm. Belicheck does not coach the offense and he never has. Don't forget that Cassel went on to play for KC after that and had a real good year there as well going to the playoffs with Todd Haley, but then shortly faltered after that. Cassel had short term success on two different teams.


Now I have no idea why you would compare that to the Colts who were a team that was built around Manning changing plays at the line of scrimmage and a defense playing with a lead. Indy lost Manning pretty close to the pre season and they thought he was going to come back up until right before the season. The Colts pretty much packed it in that year. They lost Wayne to injury as well. The very next season when Luck came in with a new coach and the team got revitalized they went right back to the playoffs and have been ever since.

If you look at the Patriots over the years, they haven't loaded their squad with studs. It has been a flurry of average to good players and Brady has a different squad of receivers ever year. The only consistency he ever had in his entrée career with his receiving core was the 3 years or so that Moss and Welker were both there. The Patriots haven't won because of their defense in like 10 years. The offense is what has carried that team and that's due to Brady carrying whatever band of receivers along he gets from year to year. He has a great TE that is healthy for the moment, but other than that his receiving core is awful and he makes it work somehow. Belicheck gets a lot of credit for that team's success, but he has been nothing more than an average GM for years that arguably has gotten in the way of that team building the right pieces to win another SB.
 
Double Barrel said:
I've gone around and around this issue with Tex before (we always agree to disagree in the end). But, my take is that Tom Brady cannot do it alone. The Patriots have won 10+ games every season except one since 2001, and that is with players that Belichick the GM has drafted.

I will not say he is the greatest GM, but he certainly knows how to find diamonds in the rough and players that fit his system. I doubt many people would call him a "terrible" GM.

And I'd take BB the GM over Rick Smith every day of the week, fwiw.
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He hasn't built back a great defense for almost 8 to 10 years now. He has been awful at getting the right pieces at the WR position for years. Brady just finds a way to make the pieces work, but had they gotten him some real talent at the wideout position they definitely wouldn't have lost to the Giants in that last SB where the middle of the field was shut down all games long since they didn't have any deep threats, and the year after that the Ravens did the same thing to them in that AFC championship game. The Patriots passed on Dez Bryant with the 26th pick of the draft for McCourty. That was a monumental fail. They've had all types of opportunities to pick up a good wideout free agent year after year in the off season, and they won't do it even after Brady took that pay cut a year and a half ago in order for them to do that.

When you look at what John Elway has done in the last few off seasons to build a SB caliber team around Manning and continuing to add piece by piece and fill the holes around that team, he has ran circles around Belicheck. Even when he has lost WR's like Decker, he goes out and adds Sanders who was a perfect fit to replace Decker. The year before he steals Welker from the Patriots after Belicheck's ego got in the way in their negotiations and got Welker mad. Talk about a foolish move that was arguably the difference maker in that post season AFC championship game last year. Then he steals their CB in this off season and adds Demarcus Ware as well. With Brady being older and in his last few years, you'd think the team would go out of their way to build that SB winning roster like Elway has attempted to do, but they've done the opposite and even wasted a #2 draft pick on Garrapallo when this team is trying to compete against the Broncos who are stacking that squad left and right. Elway has been owning Belicheck in the off season as far as his GM duties go. It's just been miraculous that the Patriots have been able to stay with them for the most part and that is due to Brady making a ton of clutch drives last year and carrying a pretty inadequate list of non play makers and making lemonade out of lemons. Imagine if Brady would get just one bonafied wideout again like the few years he had with Moss.
 
toronto said:
There are other teams that have had great QBs that fell short - after 12 years in a row of the team hitting 10 wins plus, 3 SBs, 2 more appearances and aside from that always in the mix?

Its easy to give Brady a ton of credit and I believe he's now one of the 3 best of alltime, but there are many other players that have contributed. He's turned other people's trash into his treasure. He always shows balls and vision on draft day, and anyone who comes to that team understands "The Patriot Way" and not Brady wins us every game singlehandedly.

It wasn't Brady that returned that punt, it wasn't Brady that sacked Manning on a 3 man rush, that was Titans' castoff Akeem Ayers.

I've resisted giving BB too much credit and throwing it all on Brady, but its a hell of a lot more than just him.
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Please list the names of all of these great draft picks that Belicheck has done so well with over the last 7 years? What he did for a while was trade back all of his draft picks stock piling them and making other teams look foolish in the process, but then he never really did a whole lot with them. The Patriots haven't been any types of draft gurus at all. I'm not sure where you are getting that idea from. You'd have to list all of these consistent picks that they have nailed on. They have been average in their picks, and when they get big name free agents it is usually because they find a situation or two where a guy is on the outs with his team and has had other problems and they make a low risk/high reward type of deal. Some have worked for them, and some have not. The Patriots won't pay their superstars hardly ever either. They'll usually try and deal them away instead of paying them when they've earned it.
 
Double Barrel said:
I've gone around and around this issue with Tex before (we always agree to disagree in the end). But, my take is that Tom Brady cannot do it alone. The Patriots have won 10+ games every season except one since 2001, and that is with players that Belichick the GM has drafted.

I will not say he is the greatest GM, but he certainly knows how to find diamonds in the rough and players that fit his system. I doubt many people would call him a "terrible" GM.

And I'd take BB the GM over Rick Smith every day of the week, fwiw.
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I think a top tier QB makes the team better around him and better players around an average QB make him better too. That is what I see with the Patriots is they don't have an elite RB or WR but one of the top two QB's and an elite TE improve the performance of the supporting cast. Agree?
 
gary said:
I think a top tier QB makes the team better around him and better players around an average QB make him better too. That is what I see with the Patriots is they don't have an elite RB or WR but one of the top two QB's and an elite TE improve the performance of the supporting cast. Agree?
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And just think, Gronk has only been healthy for like one full season other than his rookie year. He only played around 6 games or so in the last two seasons, so it's not like he has been around to help this team's offense that much.
 
steelbtexan said:
To think a month ago that Texans fans called Brady washed up and weren't willing to trade a 1st and AJ for 3 yrs of Brady. These fans don't deserve a QB like Brady. Brady is a GOAT.
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Did you watch Iron Man 3? Remember when the Mandarin was broadcasting a live stream, told the president if you don't call this number, I'm going to shoot this man. Well, the president made the call, Mandarin shot the man anyway. It was just an exercise to show how weak the president was.

This was sort of the same thing. They knew it wasn't ever going to happen, so they were "talking tough" trying not to lose face.
 
Double Barrel said:
That Tom Brady....he's so over-the-hill and washed up....well, according to some folks at Texans Talk not too long ago...

*cough*BigBen,too*cough*
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I haven't changed my opinion that his best days are behind him. That doesn't make him washed up, but not worth $20M.
 
Marshall said:
I haven't changed my opinion that his best days are behind him. That doesn't make him washed up, but not worth $20M.
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You aren't exactly working on all cylinders on this subject. Far from it actually. You suggested in the other thread that the Texans wouldn't even be a better team with Tom Brady than with Fitzpatrick after echoing slurs about Brady being done. Lol!

If someone's best days are behind him because he isn't able to throw for 50 TD's in a season, but can produce what Brady is this season with the malcontents he has at receiver this year, well I think every team in the league would take that.
 
Texecutioner said:
The Patriots passed on Dez Bryant with the 26th pick of the draft for McCourty. That was a monumental fail.
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C'mon, man, you and I both know that BB would not put up with Bryant's act.

Do you wonder why the Cowboys are only offering $20 million guaranteed to arguably the best WR in football? Issues, man, issues that the Cowboys will tolerate but would never fly with the Patriots. It really is that simple.

Texecutioner said:
When you look at what John Elway has done in the last few off seasons to build a SB caliber team around Manning and continuing to add piece by piece and fill the holes around that team, he has ran circles around Belicheck.
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What is Manning's record vs. BB/Brady's Patriots? 5-11

And what happened last Super Bowl to that Manning team? One of the most lopsided losses in championship history. Brady/BB may have lost two Super Bowls, but they never lost them like that.

I do not disagree with much of what you said, but I do not think BB is a horrible GM. He just refuses to play by the same rules and use the same metrics as other GMs.

Like I said, man, agree to disagree. :handshake:
 
thunderkyss said:
Did you watch Iron Man 3? Remember when the Mandarin was broadcasting a live stream, told the president if you don't call this number, I'm going to shoot this man. Well, the president made the call, Mandarin shot the man anyway. It was just an exercise to show how weak the president was.
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Thanks for spoiling Iron Man 3 for me. I was going to watch it in the next decade or so.
 
Double Barrel said:
C'mon, man, you and I both know that BB would not put up with Bryant's act.

Do you wonder why the Cowboys are only offering $20 million guaranteed to arguably the best WR in football? Issues, man, issues that the Cowboys will tolerate but would never fly with the Patriots. It really is that simple.
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Did you completely forget that the Patriots took on Randy Moss after he played like garbage on the Raiders and quit? How did that work out for them? It worked out amazing for a few years. What about Haynesworth? They took him on, and Haynesworth did nothing and they let him go with ease. OR did you forget that the Patriots took on Talib when a ton of other teams were afraid of him with his criminal cases? That worked out great too. And how you could suggest this when BB just took on Chad Johnson right after passing on Dez Bryant when Johnson looked good the year before that and was doing a ton of reality shows is really ignoring the history here DB. Chad Johnson was the most worthless WR they have ever gotten. Also Brandon Lloyd has had a lot of motivational problems throughout the years as well, and they picked him up after passing on Bryant.

I could go on and on and on man. I think you are forgetting a lot of the history of the Patriots acquisitions man. Some have worked great and some have not, but BB has never been a guy that wouldn't work with cocky players or guys with a checkered history. BB screwed up big time by passing on Dez Bryant and that was a really bad mistake.


Double Barrel said:
What is Manning's record vs. BB/Brady's Patriots? 5-11
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Which is the case that Brady has been able to lead teams better than Manning down the stretch. That doesn't mean that BB is doing anywhere near what Elway is attempting to do in order to bring a ring to that franchise.

Double Barrel said:
And what happened last Super Bowl to that Manning team? One of the most lopsided losses in championship history. Brady/BB may have lost two Super Bowls, but they never lost them like that.
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That doesn't mean that Elway didn't do everything possible to win it all, and after that look what he did in this off season to beef up his defense and to replace the holes on offense. Elway has been a remarkable GM over the last few years as far as his efforts to build a champion.

As far as the Patriots they wasted a 2nd round draft pick on a damn QB after they wasted one on Mallet years ago with a 3rd round pick that is now a Houston Texan back up .


Either way, it is okay to agree to disagree. It is still worth discussion bud.
 
Texecutioner said:
Did you completely forget that the Patriots took on Randy Moss after he played like garbage on the Raiders and quit? How did that work out for them? It worked out amazing for a few years. What about Haynesworth? They took him on, and Haynesworth did nothing and they let him go with ease. OR did you forget that the Patriots took on Talib when a ton of other teams were afraid of him with his criminal cases? That worked out great too. And how you could suggest this when BB just took on Chad Johnson right after passing on Dez Bryant when Johnson looked good the year before that and was doing a ton of reality shows is really ignoring the history here DB. Chad Johnson was the most worthless WR they have ever gotten. Also Brandon Lloyd has had a lot of motivational problems throughout the years as well, and they picked him up after passing on Bryant.

I could go on and on and on man. I think you are forgetting a lot of the history of the Patriots acquisitions man. Some have worked great and some have not, but BB has never been a guy that wouldn't work with cocky players or guys with a checkered history. BB screwed up big time by passing on Dez Bryant and that was a really bad mistake.




Which is the case that Brady has been able to lead teams better than Manning down the stretch. That doesn't mean that BB is doing anywhere near what Elway is attempting to do in order to bring a ring to that franchise.



That doesn't mean that Elway didn't do everything possible to win it all, and after that look what he did in this off season to beef up his defense and to replace the holes on offense. Elway has been a remarkable GM over the last few years as far as his efforts to build a champion.

As far as the Patriots they wasted a 2nd round draft pick on a damn QB after they wasted one on Mallet years ago with a 3rd round pick that is now a Houston Texan back up .


Either way, it is okay to agree to disagree. It is still worth discussion bud.
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Next time this topic comes up, I'll just show many of the highlights of their 5 game winning streak, especially last night. BB is the cream of the crop and gets the absolute best out of players that most coaches and GMs would fail on.
 
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