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Defensive players that fit the Frank Bush mold

T

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Okay draft experts...put your heads together and find some potential Texans entering the draft who fit the Frank Bush mold of defense as per John McClain:

Per McClain on his chat today:

John McClain: I hope Frank Bush gets it. Frank will blitz like crazy and have the linemen shoot the gaps to get after the quarterback and give the defense an identity -- everybody to the ball and hit until the whistle. That's the system he was brought up under.

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/01/t...chat_0113.html


Who's coming out that we might be looking at for this type of defense?
 
Out of nowhere pick. Late rounds.

Victor Butler #90
Defensive End
Height: 6-foot-2
Weight: 235 pounds
Class Year: Sr
Experience: 3V
Hometown: Rialto, CA
High School: Eisenhower HS
 
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Round1 Possibilities.

Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech
Height: 6-7. Weight: 257.

Everette Brown, Florida State
Height: 6-4. Weight: 250.
 
Ali4Real said:
Michael Johnson is a good DE but I think he needs to bulk up more and get to at least 280-lbs. However, I feel that Johnson will be another Mario Williams and thats not the type of DE I would like on the Texans. I want a guy who can play the weakside DE spot because I'm assuming Williams will be playing across from the TE.

So, here's who I'm looking @ in no particular order:


A.) Brian Orakpo

B.) Everette Brown

C.) Larry English

D.) Matt Shaughnessy

E.) Brandon Graham

F.) Tim Jamison
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A couple of things. Brandon Graham is staying for his senior year.

What makes you think that Michael Johnson wouldn't be a good rush DE on the weakside? He had 17.5 TFL & nine sacks this season.
 
Ali4Real said:
Michael Johnson is a good DE but I think he needs to bulk up more and get to at least 280-lbs. However, I feel that Johnson will be another Mario Williams and thats not the type of DE I would like on the Texans. I want a guy who can play the weakside DE spot because I'm assuming Williams will be playing across from the TE.

So, here's who I'm looking @ in no particular order:


A.) Brian Orakpo

B.) Everette Brown

C.) Larry English

D.) Matt Shaughnessy

E.) Brandon Graham

F.) Tim Jamison
Click to expand...

You are probably the only person who wouldn't want another Mario on their DL

I'm sure the other 31 teams dont feel this way.

If a team knew Johnson would be another MW, he would most likely be the no.1 pick in the entire draft.
 
What McClain said about Frank Bush's philosophy tells us nothin.

The same words were used to describe Richard Smith.
 
Ali4Real said:
Michael Johnson is a good DE but I think he needs to bulk up more and get to at least 280-lbs. However, I feel that Johnson will be another Mario Williams and thats not the type of DE I would like on the Texans. I want a guy who can play the weakside DE spot because I'm assuming Williams will be playing across from the TE.

So, here's who I'm looking @ in no particular order:


A.) Brian Orakpo

B.) Everette Brown

C.) Larry English

D.) Matt Shaughnessy

E.) Brandon Graham

F.) Tim Jamison
Click to expand...
How about this?

Trade down and get Raji DT in first. With our 2nd we select SHonn Green power back to get us in red zone. 2nd round from trade down Brandon Graham DE /ILB 6'3" 270 4.72 3rd Rashad Johnson FS or Sherrod Martin FS both true FS with sub 4.50 4th Robert Ayers DE Tennessee 6'3" 270 4.73 all SEC 1st team with 3 sacks 15 TFL. 5th round Ian Johnson a Slaton clone.

IMO this takes care of most of our issues.
 
If Bush's scheme is going to involve alot of blitzing I know Everette Brown fits that very well. He was on a team in Florida State that blitzed very often, and led the nation in tackles for loss. He could also be an asset on zone blitzes as I have seen him drop back on a zone blitz before and break up a pass, and he certainly has the athletic ability to do it.

Other guys that I know are good at blitzing are Rey Maualuga and Clint Stinim. Even though Rey was a MLB in college, I could see him moving to the SAM position, but that obviously depends on what his speed is. He looks plenty fast to me, but I here that he may not be. Stinim is probably a 3-4 OLB, but I could also see him at the SAM position in a 4-3. Stinim is a very good blitzer and tackler in general.
 
Ali4Real said:
Michael Johnson is a good DE but I think he needs to bulk up more and get to at least 280-lbs. However, I feel that Johnson will be another Mario Williams and thats not the type of DE I would like on the Texans. I want a guy who can play the weakside DE spot because I'm assuming Williams will be playing across from the TE.
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If we can get another Mario Williams I am up for it, big time. The thing is guys like Mario don't grow on trees. Mario was 280 or close to 280 coming out of college, and had an excellent S&C coach at NC State. Remember 4 guys off that D-line went in the first round that year, and I think alot of it had to do with that S&C coach. He is now at FSU, and is credited with making Everette Brown much stronger going into this last season. I also think that had alot to do with Brown's year.

The thing about Michael Johnson is that he is only 260, or so. While he may have the height of a Mario Williams he does not have the bulk. I see this as kind of a big issue because, from what I understand, GTech has a pretty damn good S&C program. Every year I can remember hearing how this Michael Johnson guy was going to blow up and get to Mario size, but he never really put on much bulk. You look at the guy and he is 6-7 with a nice frame, so there is room there to get bigger.

You add that to the fact that alot of people don't think he works that hard, so work ethic may be a concern. Like nunusguy says, I wouldn't touch the guy with a 10 foot poll.

EDIT: Or perhaps it was threetoadpete who was saying that. I'm sorry if I quoted you and was wrong.
 
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badboy said:
How about this?

Trade down and get Raji DT in first. With our 2nd we select SHonn Green power back to get us in red zone. 2nd round from trade down Brandon Graham DE /ILB 6'3" 270 4.72 3rd Rashad Johnson FS or Sherrod Martin FS both true FS with sub 4.50 4th Robert Ayers DE Tennessee 6'3" 270 4.73 all SEC 1st team with 3 sacks 15 TFL. 5th round Ian Johnson a Slaton clone.

IMO this takes care of most of our issues.
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I doubt Raji will be available at 15 much less after a trade down. Ian Johnson will be lucky to get drafted. Just doesnt have the physical abilities to be a pro RB.
 
badboy said:
How about this?

Trade down and get Raji DT in first. With our 2nd we select SHonn Green power back to get us in red zone. 2nd round from trade down Brandon Graham DE /ILB 6'3" 270 4.72 3rd Rashad Johnson FS or Sherrod Martin FS both true FS with sub 4.50 4th Robert Ayers DE Tennessee 6'3" 270 4.73 all SEC 1st team with 3 sacks 15 TFL. 5th round Ian Johnson a Slaton clone.

IMO this takes care of most of our issues.
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Brandon Graham is going back to Michigan for his senior year.
 
My thoughts:

Ali4Real said:
Michael Johnson is a good DE but I think he needs to bulk up more and get to at least 280-lbs. However, I feel that Johnson will be another Mario Williams and thats not the type of DE I would like on the Texans. I want a guy who can play the weakside DE spot because I'm assuming Williams will be playing across from the TE.

So, here's who I'm looking @ in no particular order:


A.) Brian Orakpo - YES (1st round)

B.) Everette Brown - YES (1st round)

C.) Larry English - YES (2nd round)

D.) Matt Shaughnessy - YES (2nd round)

E.) Brandon Graham - YES (but alas, he is going back for his senior year)

F.) Tim Jamison - NO (he is a good player, but I see him as a strong DE, not weak side)
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Texecutioner said:
Anywhere you read it talks about Johnson being lazy and taking a lot of plays off. No way do I want that guy.
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Same thing was said about Mario and look at where he was drafted and where he's at now.

Never fully trust what you read, especially online.

Imjustsaying...
 
PapaL said:
Same thing was said about Mario and look at where he was drafted and where he's at now.

Never fully trust what you read, especially online.

Imjustsaying...
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When I saw Mario in college, it wasn't that he took plays off, it was that he would be so dominant one play and the next he wasn't. Or he would dominate one game, and the next he wouldn't dominate. I think it was more of an issue with consistency, and he had problems with that here in Houston the first year. I do, however, remember someone posting draftnicks' take on Mario and one take was that he took plays off.

I get what your saying though.
 
Ali4Real said:
Ok, here's the thing with Michael Johnson, I know some ppl have mentioned this but i'll post my thoughts on this.


A.) At 260-lbs with a 6'7" frame, he reminds me of a small foward rather then a DE. If he has a good 40-yard time then i'll grab him but if not then his lack of bulk concerns me. Do understand that not everyone has the speed of Dwight Freeny and Johnson will have to block linemen/s that are 50-lbs or more then him.

B.) His stats don't prove much (I know, I know stats aren't everything but they do show whose productive and who isn't) senior year he only had 21 tackles, 4.0 sacks, and 6 TFLs which aren't good stats @ the college level.

C.) His ability to produce on every play and his motor concern me. I remember last year when most experts said he might go in the third round but thats the highest they had him rated because he only started one game. I have seen times during games when he sortof gives up and just doesn't give it his all.


So...

If I grab a DE and pay him big bucks I'm looking for bulk, speed, athletiism, and stats.

I would like to get Aaron Maybin but I want to see him bulk up like Brian Orakpo but maintain his speed. Also, I don't think he's worth it @ 15th overall. With Taylor Mays going back for his senior year, it's either Orakpo, Everetta Brown, or IDK...someone who can spark our D and blitx like crazy! :)
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A) Freakish athlete. Does need to add weight to be an everydown DE in the pros. I'm not terribly worried about his 40-time, with a DE I'm more concerned with his burst... ability explode when the ball is snapped.

B) Not sure where you're getting your stats. Everyone has been so down on Michael Johnson this year, it's spread like wildfire across the net. He actually had a really good year. Some websites vary but he's more in the 17.5 TFL and 9.0 sacks for the 2008 season.

C) I remember last year he was pegged to be a Top 5 lock in this years draft. He's been beat down to death all season. His motor is in question and people keep talking about how he takes plays off. This concerns me as well, but we need to remember that a negative about MARIO WILLIAMS coming out was that he took plays off and was inconsistent.

I think everyone is in agreement that Michael Johnson is going to be selected due to his potential, major upside. He's a risky pick and very well could be a bust. I just think that if this current staff had Amobi Okoye rated as their #1 defensive player in the draft back in '07... I just have a sneaking suspicion that they might like Johnson some- we could see some very angry Texans fans come April if he's selected.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
C) I remember last year he was pegged to be a Top 5 lock in this years draft. He's been beat down to death all season. His motor is in question and people keep talking about how he takes plays off. This concerns me as well, but we need to remember that a negative about MARIO WILLIAMS coming out was that he took plays off and was inconsistent.
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I watched both play in college and there is no comparison. Johnson either A) has a bad motor or B) he doesnt have a killer instinct. The guy just dont fininsh of plays. I guess there could be a C) just doesnt have a very high football IQ. I guess the combine will answer alott of questions about him.
 
Georgia Tech must not update their site then...

Official NCAA stats have Johnson at 46 tackles, 17 TFL, 9 sacks, 3 FF, and 1 INT (returned for a TD).
 
I believe these are the top Defensive players that fit what Bush has described our D to be. If we are to draft Defense its likely to be one of these guys. Going by our teams needs and the idea that we are going to be blitzing or attacking defense. This is how I would rate them.

The ones highlighted arent likely to be there at 15.
1 Malcolm Jenkins
2 Aaron Curry
3 B.J. Raji
4 Everette Bown DE 6-3, 250 Florida State
5 Aaron Maybin DE 6-3, 245 Penn State
6 Rey Maualaga
7 Brian Orakpo
8 Clint Sintim OLB 6-2, 255 Virginia
9 Jeria Jerry DT 6-2, 290 Mississippi
10 Will Moore FS 6-0, 230 Missouri
11 12 Greg Hardy DE 6-4, 265 Mississippi
13 Michael Johnson DE 6-6, 250 Georgia Tech
 
LB Jasper Brinkley, 6-2 262 South Carolina. projected draft rd. 5

Frank Bush, 6-1 218 North Carolina State, was drafted in the 5th rd. 1985 the year Jasper was born. also played LB in the ACC

heard nothing but good things about Jasper who is playing in the Shriners game here in Houston this weekend. He has prototype size and strength to play MLB in the NFL Shows some burst as pass rusher on the blitz. Reliable open-field tackler and can be a punisher inside. Developed a reputation as a leader and big hitter something Bush might see in common with himself. Also the Texans presence looms large during practice this week with both Kubiak & Bush together viewing the prospects. I'll bet they draft at least one player off these rosters & with one of them likely to be a LB.
 
beerlover said:
LB Jasper Brinkley, 6-2 262 South Carolina. projected draft rd. 5

Frank Bush, 6-1 218 North Carolina State, was drafted in the 5th rd. 1985 the year Jasper was born. also played LB in the ACC

heard nothing but good things about Jasper who is playing in the Shriners game here in Houston this weekend. He has prototype size and strength to play MLB in the NFL Shows some burst as pass rusher on the blitz. Reliable open-field tackler and can be a punisher inside. Developed a reputation as a leader and big hitter something Bush might see in common with himself. Also the Texans presence looms large during practice this week with both Kubiak & Bush together viewing the prospects. I'll bet they draft at least one player off these rosters & with one of them likely to be a LB.
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Brinkley wil lbe playing in the east west shrine game.

Here is what LZ had to say about him.

* South Carolina LB Jasper Brinkley looks awfully big to be a MLB. I'm interested to see if he is asked to take some snaps as a pass rusher so teams can get a look at him as a potential OLB in a 3-4. I don't think he has that kind of edge speed, but it would be interesting to see.


I have read that he is in the 270 to 280 lbs range. I think he has grown out of the LB position. I started whatching him 2 years ago and was real interested in him at the beggining of the year. I wanted to see if he got over his injury. He still hasnt returned to his 2006 form. Makes you wonder if he ever will. I dont know if he would make a good DE. Just dont think he is quick enough.
 
mussop said:
I doubt Raji will be available at 15 much less after a trade down. Ian Johnson will be lucky to get drafted. Just doesnt have the physical abilities to be a pro RB.
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Probably correct on Raji, but I disagree on Ian Johnson. Many agree with you but he had a great season two years ago and did all right this year. He is taller than Slaton and 199lbs with 4.47 speed. Definitely worth a late pick rather than a "project QB" that does not survive to game one.
 
Karlos Dansby WLB
Michael Boley SLB

what!??

If we got Curry in the first though, I would ****** ** ****** ****** **** * * * * ***** ***
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sTqJE4sdb0


So ... If it was between Brown or Maybin ... who do you pick and who's got the most upside ?
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Being honest, I have to say I've never watched either. Brown seems to get most pub on this mb, but Charlie Pallilo recently was talking up Maybin if there at 15. I'm convinced we will get a starter to fill a need, but am hopeful a trade down occurs with similar results as with D Brown. More research on my part reveals: DT only Raji has tools to do job in 1st three rounds and maybe there @ 15. He would fix one of 3 biggest weaknesses; stopping run, turn overs and getting 6 in red zone.

DE this appears to be a deep position in draft and we should get an adequate compliment to Mario. We don't have to have 12 + sacks from new guy, just some one who can make D play honest. Weaver has been a disappointment & his salary should be looked at this year as a possible cut even if dead $. I see a DE in 3rd unless Shonn Green gone when we pick in 2nd.

In summary, Raji if there and Green resolve two of our biggest needs. What would our Ws looked like if we had gotten 6 half of our trips to RZ? I think issue is will we wait until later rounds to get a "hammer"? Shonn has speed and power.
 
Mario Williams LDE
Amobi Okoye LDT
Travis Johnson RDT (contract year)
RDE Aaron Maybin - 6-4 245 Penn State, underclassman 1st rd.

SLB Marcus Freeman - 6-1 238 Ohio State 3rd. rd.
MLB DeMeco Ryans
WLB Xavier Adibi

RCB Jacques Reeves
FS Nick Ferguson
SS William Moore - Missouri 6-1 226 2nd rd.
LCB Dunta Robinson (resigned f/a)

just a wish list, not sure first three picks go to Bush but this addresses some definte needs with aggressive, instinctive players :specnatz:
 
Dang, the more and more I think about the addition of Raji on this team, the more I think about how huge of an impact it would have on our total defense. He's definitely my favorite for our pick.

I like the M. Boley idea for adding a LB during FA. This would strengthen our LB's considerably and let us focus on other needs during the draft.

DE seems to be pretty deep this year. As mentioned, I'd love Raji in the 1st and with the deep DE class we can look at who fits in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th. Those will probably start out as situational pass rushers at first and not everydown DEs. I like the kid out of Texas Tech. He impressed me during the Cotton Bowl and looks like a guy we could pick up in these rounds. Maybe a guy like G. Hardy or M. Johnson slips to us in the 2nd rd. MJ may suffer a similar fate as Calais Campbell did last year.

I think it'd be good to address the Safety position too (as mentioned every single draft). A guy that would be able to cover, help in run support, and be able to blitz would really help out.

DT, DE, S, RB are my favorites right now for the 1st - 4th. RB being a power type of back to compliment Slaton.

I'd also like to add that Malcolm Jenkins really impresses me. If he were to be added to our secondary, I think it'd do wonders but he's going to be long gone. I think he could be the #1 defensive player taken.
 
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small_59.jpg


i'd like to see this kid...he's a pure pass rusher. i just dont know in what capacity b/c he's a little undersized to be a DE & Lb isn't a dire need of ours.
 
Greg Hardy would be a great pick at 15 IMO. The guy was banged up all season and still put up numbers in the SEC for the second consecutive season. All this talk of him slipping to the 2nd round is going to die down when he tests and it becomes obvious that he has all the tools and then some. He has the size to be an ideal RE opposite Mario, good against the gun and potentially very good against the pass. He has a motor too. He is just as good a prospect as Harvey was last year but he has stronger pass rushing ability and a little less size. If we go DE in round one I want him unless Orakpo is available. I wouldn't mind getting William Moore at 15 and a DE prospect in round two or three but it is conceivable that we could trade down a bit and still land him.
 
Mr teX said:
small_59.jpg


i'd like to see this kid...he's a pure pass rusher. i just dont know in what capacity b/c he's a little undersized to be a DE & Lb isn't a dire need of ours.
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Why do say this? LB isn't our most pressing need, but we don't have any great LB"s other than Demeco. Diles played well, but we don't know that he'll come back and continue that. Just imagine if we would have picked Patrick Willis instead of Okoye. Demeco and Willis would have been unstoppable together and extremely scary.

If you look at some of the great defenses in the league year after year they all seem to have some great LB's and more than one.

Ravens- Suggs, Lewis
Steelers- Harrison, Farrior, Woodley (And had Porter for years)
Titans-Bullock
Chargers-Merriman, Phillips

I'm at that point where I'd like to see another dominating LB on the side of Demeco. When you have two athletic guys at LB who can do it all, it can help cover up some of the weaknesses on the D line because of the extra pass rush and in coverage if they are in good in coverage as well. You just have to get a versatile LB.
 
Texecutioner said:
Why do say this? LB isn't our most pressing need, but we don't have any great LB"s other than Demeco. Diles played well, but we don't know that he'll come back and continue that. Just imagine if we would have picked Patrick Willis instead of Okoye. Demeco and Willis would have been unstoppable together and extremely scary.

If you look at some of the great defenses in the league year after year they all seem to have some great LB's and more than one.

Ravens- Suggs, Lewis
Steelers- Harrison, Farrior, Woodley (And had Porter for years)
Titans-Bullock
Chargers-Merriman, Phillips

I'm at that point where I'd like to see another dominating LB on the side of Demeco. When you have two athletic guys at LB who can do it all, it can help cover up some of the weaknesses on the D line because of the extra pass rush and in coverage if they are in good in coverage as well. You just have to get a versatile LB.
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You can add Urlacher and Briggs (4-3 defense). After passing up Willis, I hope we finish off the DL first. If we don't do that, Amobi might become a "bust" and that pick would be like another DT pick 2 years prior. If we get Mario and him more help, then Amobi still has the upside to be just as good a pick as Willis if not better. I was a huge fan for a Willis/Demeco tandem- best in the NFL.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
You can add Urlacher and Briggs (4-3 defense). After passing up Willis, I hope we finish off the DL first. If we don't do that, Amobi might become a "bust" and that pick would be like another DT pick 2 years prior. If we get Mario and him more help, then Amobi still has the upside to be just as good a pick as Willis if not better. I was a huge fan for a Willis/Demeco tandem- best in the NFL.
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I meant to add Urlacher and Briggs to that but forgot. Good call.

no way do I want to add another DT in the first round. I just don't trust in our ability to pick DT's in the first round anymore. A DE for sure, because we need on that bad. No way we can roll out with Weaver again, and if Mario gets hurt then we're really screwed. I just don't want to reach on any player with the first pick. No way. We need to get a GREAT player with that pick. A can't miss type of player that can be here for a long time. I just think that at 15 the studs that will be there will be at LB, and not at DE. I could be wrong and I hope that I am, but I doubt it. Top talent DE's go really early and there only seems to be two of them for the first round in my eyes.
 
Texecutioner said:
Why do say this? LB isn't our most pressing need, but we don't have any great LB"s other than Demeco. Diles played well, but we don't know that he'll come back and continue that. Just imagine if we would have picked Patrick Willis instead of Okoye. Demeco and Willis would have been unstoppable together and extremely scary.

If you look at some of the great defenses in the league year after year they all seem to have some great LB's and more than one.

Ravens- Suggs, Lewis
Steelers- Harrison, Farrior, Woodley (And had Porter for years)
Titans-Bullock
Chargers-Merriman, Phillips

I'm at that point where I'd like to see another dominating LB on the side of Demeco. When you have two athletic guys at LB who can do it all, it can help cover up some of the weaknesses on the D line because of the extra pass rush and in coverage if they are in good in coverage as well. You just have to get a versatile LB.
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Well I only said that b/c as sad as this is given how we played on defense last year, Lb is our strongest area. + we've got young guys in Adibi & Diles who've already shown lots of promise & might be able to blossom even more under the attack style defense Bush promises to bring. Even if they didn't, we'd still be in a better position with a couple of our back-ups (minus Greenwood) starting, but we really can't say the same for any other area on defense.

I think maybin would instantly make us better if we picked him up, & if he's the only 1 left so be it, but if we have the choice between him Brown or somehow if Orakpo fell to us, i'd pick either 1 of them b/c they are prototype DE's & i think that makes them a safer pick at a critical need spot.
 
Mr teX said:
Well I only said that b/c as far as our defense goes, Lb is our strongest area. + we've got young guys in Adibi & Diles who've already shown lots of promise & might be able to blossom even more under the attack style defense Bush promises to bring. Even if they didn't, we'd still be in a better position with a couple of our back-ups (minus Greenwood) starting, but we really can't say the same for any other area on defense.

I think he would instantly make us better if we picked him up, but given the choice between him Brown or somehow if Orakpo fell to us, i'd pick either 1 of them b/c they are prototype DE's & i think that makes them a safer pick at a critical need spot.
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I agree with everything you're saying 100%. I just don't think that Orakpo or maabin will be there at 15 and Mays isn't coming out. So with that being said, if a franchise LB like Curry or Mulaeuga is there, then I'd love to have them.
 
Texecutioner said:
I agree with everything you're saying 100%. I just don't think that Orakpo or maabin will be there at 15 and Mays isn't coming out. So with that being said, if a franchise LB like Curry or Mulaeuga is there, then I'd love to have them.
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Put it like this, If/when Orakpo & Brown are gone, it then just becomes a BPA on defense in the 1st round & we could go any number of ways with the pick. I just hope they don't pick moore b/c i watched more than my normal amounts of Mizzou football this year & i can't recall him standing out at any time. I'd rather have Johnson than moore if given the choice between the 2.
 
Mr teX said:
Put it like this, If/when Orakpo & Brown are gone, it then just becomes a BPA on defense in the 1st round & we could go any number of ways with the pick. I just hope they don't pick moore b/c i watched more than my normal amounts of Mizzou football this year & i can't recall him standing out at any time. I'd rather have Johnson than moore if given the choice between the 2.
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Don't want Moore either. Maybe in the 2nd, but that is it. Don't want Michael Johnson either because everywhere I read I hear that he is lazy and takes plays off?

Why do you want Brown?
 
Mr teX said:
Put it like this, If/when Orakpo & Brown are gone, it then just becomes a BPA on defense in the 1st round & we could go any number of ways with the pick.
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Exactly--while everyone may want a DE or S first, if the talent is gone then look for talent at CB, OLB or DT. Somebody will be available on D that is worth the #15 pick.
 
Texecutioner said:
Don't want Moore either. Maybe in the 2nd, but that is it. Don't want Michael Johnson either because everywhere I read I hear that he is lazy and takes plays off?

Why do you want Brown?
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As far as johnson, I think i remember hearing the same "takes plays off" thing about Mario when he came out...i think we both can agree that those claims were unfounded.

As for brown, for 1 he's everything we need in a pass rusher. Big & strong & fast. He's got a great 1st step, & he's relentless. He also looks to either have been coached very well or just naturally gifted b/c he's also got good moves getting to the qb; Typically, most DE's coming out of college tend to only be speed guys off the edge or just stronger than they counterparts but with no real skills. i've seen brown on more than 1 occasion using the spin move or dipping that shoulder to get underneath the LT's hands...& doing so effectively. You should check out some video on the guy he looks to be the real deal.
 
infantrycak said:
Exactly--while everyone may want a DE or S first, if the talent is gone then look for talent at CB, OLB or DT. Somebody will be available on D that is worth the #15 pick.
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QFT. I see a lot of defensive talent that has the potential to be there. Factor in 1 QB will probably be taken, a slew of LT's to teams in the top 10 that need OL help, maybe Crabtree and maybe a RB like Wells/Moreno... that pushes more Defensive talent down to our pick.

I wouldn't take a CB at #15 unless its Malcolm Jenkins (will be gone) or a safety unless its Mays (supposedly staying in school). But we should have some good talent at DT, DE and LB to choose from.
 
Jackie Chiles said:
Greg Hardy would be a great pick at 15 IMO. The guy was banged up all season and still put up numbers in the SEC for the second consecutive season. All this talk of him slipping to the 2nd round is going to die down when he tests and it becomes obvious that he has all the tools and then some. He has the size to be an ideal RE opposite Mario, good against the gun and potentially very good against the pass. He has a motor too. He is just as good a prospect as Harvey was last year but he has stronger pass rushing ability and a little less size. If we go DE in round one I want him unless Orakpo is available. I wouldn't mind getting William Moore at 15 and a DE prospect in round two or three but it is conceivable that we could trade down a bit and still land him.
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I really like Hardy too. If it were up to me I would probably be choosing between Hardy and Brown in the first round, if Orakpo is gone. I'm not convinced Orakpo is better than Hardy or Brown, but from what I understand he will go higher than 15 so he is not on my mind at this time.
 
The biggest problem with most of these DEs coming out is they're tweeners
so by definition they are of marginal size at best when it comes to playing rush defense in the 4-3. And of course that's what made Mario so rare and so valuable: you don't get many of 'em in the 285-290 lb range who obviously do have the size & strength to play the run but are also quick/fast enough even at that size to still be talented pass-rushers.
 
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