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CJ Stroud is him

Dejaview said:
I didn’t write it but the point was the expressed concept but I know that I, Jefe, do not have your superior intellect and education, but could it be, once again, you are angry at something else and are looking to take it out on me?
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Yes, I am so angry at you for merely suggesting Bill Bradley was great. Geez.

My point was that no one that actually watched Bradley play would ascribe the qualities of "panoptic” vision to him. Magic Johnson? Yes. Larry Bird? Yes. Bill Bradley? No.
 
Lucky said:
Yes, I am so angry at you for merely suggesting Bill Bradley was great. Geez.

My point was that no one that actually watched Bradley play would ascribe the qualities of "panoptic” vision to him. Magic Johnson? Yes. Larry Bird? Yes. Bill Bradley? No.
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The book was about a concept that I feel has worth. Your deeply perspective opinion regarding Johnson and Bird is telling since neither were even close to starting their careers when the book was written in 1965 about Bradley’s senior year at Princeton. BTW I hate basketball. Haven’t seen a game on TV in decades. Baseball isn’t far behind either. But thanks for your deep perspective regarding a concept that still mystifies even today.
 
Lucky said:
Bill Bradley's "greatness"? I remember Bradley as an average player. The 5th best player on the Knicks behine Clyde Frazier, Willis Reed, Dave DeBusschere, and Earl "The Pearl" Monroe.
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Bradley was a very underrated player and the type of guy that is necessary to win championships

Mario Ellie.
 
Peyton

"It's so hard as a rookie, all these interceptions," Manning recalled of the 1998 season, in which he set an NFL rookie record with 28 pickoffs.
"C.J. Stroud says, 'It's not that hard.' He went out and dominated as a rookie." Stroud, the No. 2 overall pick in the 2023 NFL Draft, appeared in 15 games, passing for 4,108 yards, 23 touchdowns and 5 interceptions. "He's got a presence about him," Manning said. "There's something about being calm and cool in those heated moments that serves those quarterbacks well."
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TheRealJoker V2 said:
Really informative interview from Slowik. He’s going to make a quality HC sooner than later. We will need to enjoy him while he’s here!
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Good offensive coordinators are hard to come by. But then again, elite quarterbacks, like Manning, Brady, and Stroud, make the job easier. If Slowick moves on to a HC job with a team that has less than stellar QBs, you’re left to wonder. As long as Hanna continues to throw more money at him, I suspect he’ll continue to go through the motions of job interviews while telling everyone he likes where he’s at.

The day that Stroud tells Slowick that he’s ready to call his own plays, will be the day that Slowick moves on. (and I hope that never happens)
 
Marcus said:
Good offensive coordinators are hard to come by. But then again, elite quarterbacks, like Manning, Brady, and Stroud, make the job easier. If Slowick moves on to a HC job with a team that has less than stellar QBs, you’re left to wonder. As long as Hanna continues to throw more money at him, I suspect he’ll continue to go through the motions of job interviews while telling everyone he likes where he’s at.

The day that Stroud tells Slowick that he’s ready to call his own plays, will be the day that Slowick moves on. (and I hope that never happens)
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My expectation is that he won't take a HC job willy-nilly, but if there's a team with a QB he likes (or can draft) he'll take the job. The good news is that coaches realize that taking a shot at head coach is sometimes a one shot affair if you're not successful. The bad news is that he demonstrated the ability to take a rookie QB and make him play like a veteran (even if Stroud deserves most of the credit.) And of course the best drafted QBs go to teams that have had the worst record, so it won't be long before a team comes along that need a HC and has a top 3 draft pick.
 
cland said:
My expectation is that he won't take a HC job willy-nilly, but if there's a team with a QB he likes (or can draft) he'll take the job. The good news is that coaches realize that taking a shot at head coach is sometimes a one shot affair if you're not successful. The bad news is that he demonstrated the ability to take a rookie QB and make him play like a veteran (even if Stroud deserves most of the credit.) And of course the best drafted QBs go to teams that have had the worst record, so it won't be long before a team comes along that need a HC and has a top 3 draft pick.
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Which does Slowick want more, SB rings or a HC job? HC jobs are usually more attainable than SB rings.
 
Stroud surpassed Herbert (who was No. 10 in 2021) for the highest Tiers debut coming off a rookie season.

“This guy is a freaking baller,” an offensive assistant said. “When we watch the style of play, there’s a lot of Joe Burrow when Joe is healthy. The dude has balls.”

Stroud’s 1.82 average vote was the same as Tom Brady’s coming off what became Brady’s final season.

“I think he’s special,” a head coach said of Stroud. “He can make plays on rhythm, he can read coverage, he can get through progressions, he can manipulate coverages. He can create off-schedule a lot better.”

Too much, too soon?

“I’m sure some people gave him a 1, but he’s gotta prove it,” another head coach said. “The Baltimore (playoff) game when he had to throw, he couldn’t do it. He needs to prove he can do it in a big game against really good defenses (to become a 1).”

Voters gave credit to the Texans’ offensive system under coordinator Bobby Slowik. Some called Houston’s personnel underrated. They generally did not hold those things against Stroud.

“I knew it right away,” one voter said. “I was watching him play at Baltimore in his first game ever. In the first 15 plays, I was like, ’OK, they got a quarterback.’ I saw him flicking his wrist, moving in the pocket. You could just see it.”
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https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/57...4-patrick-mahomes/?source=user_shared_article

Tier 2 QB at No.8






15. C.J. Stroud
QB | Texans
Age: 22
2023 rank: NR

With the added playmakers for Stroud, there's no reason to think he can't throw for close to 5,000 yards. Last year, he led the league in passing yards per game (274) among eligible quarterbacks, and now he has All-Pro wide receiver Stefon Diggs and running back Joe Mixon to help elevate his game. In camp, there have been some days of struggle, but when he has been on, he has ripped the defense apart. -- DJ Bien-Aime

Signature stat: Stroud's 4.6 touchdown-to-interception ratio marked the first time a rookie has ever led the NFL in that stat among quarterbacks to pass for at least 15 TDs in a given season.

2024 projection: 4,055 passing yards, 27 TDs, 11 INTs (181 yards, 3 TDs rushing)
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www.espn.com

We ranked the NFL's best players for this season, from 100 to 1: Can anyone top Patrick Mahomes?

We predicted who will be the best players for the 2024 season. Where do Patrick Mahomes, T.J. Watt and Christian McCaffrey land?
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
Stroud will be an easy player to hate with all the positive media attention. I hope he lives up to it though!


Rank
4


C.J. Stroud
Houston Texans · Year 2
2023 stats: 15 games | 63.9 pct | 4,108 pass yds | 8.2 ypa | 23 pass TD | 5 INT | 167 rush yds | 3 rush TD | 8 fumbles

Stroud's rookie season was nothing short of spectacular, serving as a feather in the cap of those pounding the table to play first-round quarterbacks immediately. But it also set expectations high entering 2024. Luckily for Stroud and Houston, the gang (offensive coordinator Bobby Slowik and receivers Tank Dell and Nico Collins) is back for another run, with some new additions (Stefon Diggs, Joe Mixon) who should help the Texans reach new heights offensively. The key piece, though, is the reigning Offensive Rookie of the Year. Sure, it might seem outrageous to place a guy with one year of experience this high in the rankings, but I stand by it. Stroud is special.
 
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cland said:
Still clutch, even when he's a little rusty.
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It wasn’t so much rust as it was Slowik seeing how well the run game was working and shoving it down their throat.

Loud stadium, pass rush is getting home more often than not. Run Mixon and don’t make C.J. put his cape on if you can win that way.

If we had Stroud throw the ball 50 times i’m sure he would have had great numbers, but he’d probably be pretty sore today from the extra hits he would’ve received.
 
TheRealJoker V2 said:
It wasn’t so much rust as it was Slowik seeing how well the run game was working and shoving it down their throat.

Loud stadium, pass rush is getting home more often than not. Run Mixon and don’t make C.J. put his cape on if you can win that way.

If we had Stroud throw the ball 50 times i’m sure he would have had great numbers, but he’d probably be pretty sore today from the extra hits he would’ve received.
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Maybe, he himself admitted he was a little rusty. That lobbed, short, out-of-bounds sideline pass was bad news, and some of his passes were a little short compared to his normal pinpoint accuracy. I do like that he attempted to pull that pass back (incomplete when he lost his grip) right as he saw a linebacker that about to snag it if he had let the pass go. Now he did have a passer rating of 115, but I suppose I'm judging him on a scale of elite QBs now.
 
cland said:
Maybe, he himself admitted he was a little rusty. That lobbed, short, out-of-bounds sideline pass was bad news, and some of his passes were a little short compared to his normal pinpoint accuracy. I do like that he attempted to pull that pass back (incomplete when he lost his grip) right as he saw a linebacker that about to snag it if he had let the pass go. Now he did have a passer rating of 115, but I suppose I'm judging him on a scale of elite QBs now.
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The fact that we can pick apart a few plays when he had a 75% completion rate, two TD's, no INTs, a 73.6 QBR and a couple of spectacular throws to keep drives alive says all we need to know about him being elite.

If Lamar had this game he would already be the MVP frontrunner.
 
Colts were playing to stop the deep shots with two high safeties. Which helped open the run game and the short passing game. CJ was great when it mattered most. So many awesome throws. Would you rather than AR or Stroud? I know who I am picking 100 times out of 100.
 
sandman said:
The fact that we can pick apart a few plays when he had a 75% completion rate, two TD's, no INTs, a 73.6 QBR and a couple of spectacular throws to keep drives alive says all we need to know about him being elite.

If Lamar had this game he would already be the MVP frontrunner.
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That's where I'm at. I'm critical of CJs performance but it's because he is absolutely an elite QB and can and will do better.
 
Porky said:
Colts were playing to stop the deep shots with two high safeties. Which helped open the run game and the short passing game. CJ was great when it mattered most. So many awesome throws. Would you rather than AR or Stroud? I know who I am picking 100 times out of 100.
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The nice thing was even when the Colts wanted to stop the run in the second half and in the 2 minute drive we still ran it through their faces.
 
Porky said:
Colts were playing to stop the deep shots with two high safeties. Which helped open the run game and the short passing game. CJ was great when it mattered most. So many awesome throws. Would you rather than AR or Stroud? I know who I am picking 100 times out of 100.
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Had a few more zeros on your last sentence.
 
Sweech said:
That's where I'm at. I'm critical of CJs performance but it's because he is absolutely an elite QB and can and will do better.
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I guess the thought I was trying to convey is that even elite QB's are not elite on every play. That is simply not reality. Looking at 70 offensive plays and picking out three or four to critique is just being pedantic and getting lost in the minutiae to make a point.
 
sandman said:
I guess the thought I was trying to convey is that even elite QB's are not elite on every play. That is simply not reality. Looking at 70 offensive plays and picking out three or four to critique is just being pedantic and getting lost in the minutiae to make a point.
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I don't really agree. 1 or 2 maybe but honestly 3-4 bad plays will absolutely 100% flat out lose you a game.

There's also the factor of even plays that were good can still be better.

This simply put was not one of CJ's better games. That's not being pedantic or singling out a couple plays, that's literally taking the game as whole. In fact I'd argue it was 3-4 scramble drill plays that made it a good game rather than anything else.

Good is the enemy of great. To be quite honest if CJ himself thinks this was a good game we'd be in trouble. I know he knows he can be much better.
 
sandman said:
I guess the thought I was trying to convey is that even elite QB's are not elite on every play. That is simply not reality. Looking at 70 offensive plays and picking out three or four to critique is just being pedantic and getting lost in the minutiae to make a point.
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The truth is he could have 2 (maybe 3) interceptions that he was lucky on. The fact that the defensive player was just ever so slightly out-of-bounds on the short lob was lucky, and the fact that he under-threw to a double covered Nico Collins could have been another one. In that case his rating would have gone down significantly. CJ is already elite 1 season and 1 game into it and I'm not arguing that (I'm amazed by it), but if we want to go all the way the team has to set a higher standard.
 
Sweech said:
I don't really agree. 1 or 2 maybe but honestly 3-4 bad plays will absolutely 100% flat out lose you a game.

There's also the factor of even plays that were good can still be better.

This simply put was not one of CJ's better games. That's not being pedantic or singling out a couple plays, that's literally taking the game as whole. In fact I'd argue it was 3-4 scramble drill plays that made it a good game rather than anything else.

Good is the enemy of great. To be quite honest if CJ himself thinks this was a good game we'd be in trouble. I know he knows he can be much better.
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But it's different right? You trust Cj is harder on himself than any of us ever will be. He wasn't perfect.

It's not like David Carr, he saw the same thing on film that we did & never got better.

I can see making an issue, bringing up his errors on a message board, discussing the "issues" when it comes to a guy like that. But Cj?

It's not like we're ignoring them. Just rather discuss the good. than dwell on the one or two plays that "could have" gone the other way.
 
Hey it’s only the first game gentlemen in which they won in a very hostile environment. That’s a big plus because in years past they would’ve lost that type of game.

Now I see if this was week 8 and they’re still making the same mistakes and it’s causing them to lose. Then I would wave the red flag of concern.
 
Sweech said:
The nice thing was even when the Colts wanted to stop the run in the second half and in the 2 minute drive we still ran it through their faces.
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The Colts defense had dead legs. With the Colts offense unable to stay on the field, the Time of Possession was 2 to 1 in the Texans favor. Control the clock. Still an important aspect of winning football.
 
Sweech said:
This simply put was not one of CJ's better games. That's not being pedantic or singling out a couple plays, that's literally taking the game as whole. In fact I'd argue it was 3-4 scramble drill plays that made it a good game rather than anything else.
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Stroud had a 115 QB rating, completed 75% of his passes, made a money throw to ice the game. And he could have played better. Not his A game.

Not a bad place to be in.
 
Lucky said:
Stroud had a 115 QB rating, completed 75% of his passes, made a money throw to ice the game. And he could have played better. Not his A game.

Not a bad place to be in.
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Yep, this is exactly the point I was trying to make. I want him to move from elite to GOATish. I want the Chiefs game to be announced as a meeting of the two best QBs in the league. Is that fair to a 2nd year QB in his first game back -- Nope. :winky:
 
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