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Chronic's Lopez: Bush is the choice
- Thread starter Marcus
- Start date
Malloy
Hall of Fame
Game-wise, I don't really care if we get Young or Bush with our first pick. What I am worried about is the economics of the choice. DD has a long-term contract whereas Carr's is running out. If we get Bush we'll hurt $-wise for years to come, but if we get Young as an upgrade to Carr(with a possible 1-2 years transition-period) we'll only hurt for a couple of years.
Despite what player one wants the most, I believe it is the economic aspect of the game that will ultimately decide who gets picked.
That would leave us possibly trading down the pick, again for economical reasons. Tough decision, glad I'm not making it
Despite what player one wants the most, I believe it is the economic aspect of the game that will ultimately decide who gets picked.
That would leave us possibly trading down the pick, again for economical reasons. Tough decision, glad I'm not making it
couple things.
Ive been thinking about this whole "Bush will hurt the Cap since we just re-signed DD" thing.. and ive got a few thoughts.
1. What if we drafted a WR #1 overall? They will only touch the ball 10-15 times a game... and thats if they are good. The cap hit would be similar, and the number of times the player gets the ball would actually be LESS than if we drafted Bush.
2. If the Colts can pay Peyton so much..and the Falcons can pay Vick so much.. how is it that we cannot pay DD + Bush without crippling ourselves? Heck.. both of their salaries together will probably still be 20-40 million less than Peyton or Vick gets.
3. The first few years of a rookie contract are usually fairly "light" on the cap, arent they? Obviously a #1 pick will cost more but for the first few years it shouldnt be a huge amount, right? Well by the time Bush really starts putting some pressure on the cap, DD will either be gone, or restructured.. correct? SO we probably shouldnt worry bout that either.
Ive been thinking about this whole "Bush will hurt the Cap since we just re-signed DD" thing.. and ive got a few thoughts.
1. What if we drafted a WR #1 overall? They will only touch the ball 10-15 times a game... and thats if they are good. The cap hit would be similar, and the number of times the player gets the ball would actually be LESS than if we drafted Bush.
2. If the Colts can pay Peyton so much..and the Falcons can pay Vick so much.. how is it that we cannot pay DD + Bush without crippling ourselves? Heck.. both of their salaries together will probably still be 20-40 million less than Peyton or Vick gets.
3. The first few years of a rookie contract are usually fairly "light" on the cap, arent they? Obviously a #1 pick will cost more but for the first few years it shouldnt be a huge amount, right? Well by the time Bush really starts putting some pressure on the cap, DD will either be gone, or restructured.. correct? SO we probably shouldnt worry bout that either.
1) Did they even watch the games?
2) What he didn't say was the next 20 viable head coaching candidates would have all said Vince Young. Period.
3) They are all in McNair's pocket.
4) They all just like David Carr's hair.
5) They don't know anything about NFL football.
Did I miss anything?
2) What he didn't say was the next 20 viable head coaching candidates would have all said Vince Young. Period.
3) They are all in McNair's pocket.
4) They all just like David Carr's hair.
5) They don't know anything about NFL football.
Did I miss anything?
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
texan279 said:
Kind of like a poll question, Is David Carr the problem for the Texans lack of success? Of course not.
I would like to see how the break down went. That is what is being debated on this board, well by me at least.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
Though I agree with this 'survey' opinion regarding Carr, and though I am not 100% sold on Bush but have come to more or less view it as a very good idea, I only hesitate to accept the validity of all of Lopez' statements.
Though I tend to think Lopez is the least biased and most fact based Chronic writer, I nevertheless always wonder where they get some of their info from.
I would be curious to learn more about this 'wise circle of seven' and how Lopez got the inside word on their proceedings. I am not saying he is false - hell, it could be 100% true - but I guess I only advise that the buyer beware.
I wonder if those people who bet me $50 that Vince wouldn't be wearing a Texans uniform intend to pay up if they lose?
Though I tend to think Lopez is the least biased and most fact based Chronic writer, I nevertheless always wonder where they get some of their info from.
I would be curious to learn more about this 'wise circle of seven' and how Lopez got the inside word on their proceedings. I am not saying he is false - hell, it could be 100% true - but I guess I only advise that the buyer beware.
I wonder if those people who bet me $50 that Vince wouldn't be wearing a Texans uniform intend to pay up if they lose?
The Preacher
Waterboy
Is it just me or is it a little disconcerting that the FO has to seek all this outside help to feel better about their decision making. Do the Patriots do this kind of thing? I'm a little surprised since Bob never makes the same mistake twice why the whole ship wasn't dismantled. Reeves must have thought the coaching was really bad.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
aj. said:
Yeah, I could just imagine a guy interviewing for a job saying, "Yuppers, your QB stinks on ice." And personally, I think it is difficult to evaluate Carr at all given the coaching, protection issues and the difficulty in discerning what is Carr and what is not.
And IIRC, I read that the candidates have all said they would like to see more film on our team.
In any event, if I am a new head coach, I would want to win immediately and have an easier camp etc--that means no developing a new QB--and getting picks that can play right away.
But that doesn't mean that VY wouldn't be a great first pick.
I betcha we will be seeing lots of articles like this to prepare Houston for the notion that we are not going to get VY.
U4ikrob
Guitar Junky
Grid said:
Me too Grid
But you know - I think Dom got the same deal - He could have anyone he wanted - McNair never put price tags on the staff - yet look at who he came up with? Fangio - Palmer - Pendry.
I still stand by what I said last off-season and during TC - The coaching staff is dragging[drug] this team down. I still cant believe they didnt understand the problem was themselves. Especially after McNair told them point blank to fix the O-line and protect DC - and look what they came up with - 3 step drops and 68 more sacks...
I cant think of much better reasons to fire a staff than ignoring your bosses more than reasonable requests.to the Reeves question above - IMO Charley is only going to be around 1 more year for Reeves to get OJT on the Cap and work with the staff and will be released next year as I'm doubtful he would take being demoted to cap specialist or accounting. Honestly - What is Casserley going to do that Reeves and the coaches are not doing outside of cap structuring now? All indication ive read recently are leaning toward personel and drafting decisions have pretty much been taken out of his hands and will be split between the new HC and McNair w/Reeves consulting. Where exactly does Charlie fit in anymore?? I certainly dont want him handling anything to do with personel choices as hes shown to be a horrible evaluator of talent on the whole. Basically 7 starters out of 4 years drafting doesnt cut it in my book.
But I digress - that was the old regime and thankfully Mr McNnair was intelligent and savvy enough to make a change for the better. Now we have the chance for a much brighter future with a new Coach/staff and a new leash on Casserley w/checks and balances.
I 'm looking forward to more of this
and less of this :brickwall next year
Texan in Japan
Rookie
Texans_Chick said:
Let the propaganda begin! The media machine is prepping us for Bush in '06. As a conspiracy theorist, TC, I think you may be on to something. I just wish they would let the combine and workouts happen before they make up their minds. Heck, I could live with another losing season if we lay the foundation for an incredible future.
Texan in Japan said:
And the only way to do that is to trade the pick. Neither Young nor Bush excite me whatsoever because I know that, no matter which guy they choose, he won't do much if they don't work on their real weaknesses -- especially when they have two good players at both QB and RB already.
jerek said:
He gets his info from the same place that Richard Justice does.
He gets his info from the same place that John McClain does.
He gets his info form the same place that Chris Mortenson does.
He gets his info from the same place that 610 does.
He gets his info from the same place that Charlie Palillo does.
He gets his info from the same place that ESPN does.
He gets his info from the same place that the "experts" on this MB does.
They pull it out of their bung holes.
The ones that are talking, don't know, and the one thats know, aren't talking.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Grid said:They are blind... blind i tell you!
Nah seriously.. its good to see that some experts agreed that Carr isnt the problem. its one thing hearing it from other fans around the league and such.. but to hear it come from professional coaches just gives me hope.
Yep, assuming this story is based on facts (and we have to proceed under that assumption) then it's nice to hear that all these guys who interviewed for the job basically said that Carr wasn't the issue. I assume that they met with the entire "brain trust" of the Texans (McNair, McNair, Casserly, Reeves,) and so they weren't alone in a small room with Charlie Casserly being asked to validate "his boy" DC.
You and I can go back and forth all day long saying good things about Carr and patting one another on the back for it but it's not the same as hearing those words from a broad consensus of (mostly) offense minded coaches.
People who want Vince Young to be the pick, let us lay down our swords and come together in support of Reggie Bush and wishing Vince Young well in his career as a New Orleans Saint or Tennesse Titan (not too well though in the case of the Titans). Lets stop this bickering back and forth and get back on the same team standing 100% behind our new HC Gary Kubiak and our soon to be high scoring offense led by David Carr, Reggie Bush, and Andre Johnson!
U4ikrob
Guitar Junky
Bobo said:
I dunno who everybody was your talking about BoBo - but I know several folks including Myself have never been happy with this staff outside of Hoke and Marciano. They consistently under-achieved coaching this team. I think this last year as ive stated before had alot to do with the staff's lack of Vision and inability to coach rookie talent up to the NFL level and bring them along together with the veterans as a team to produce players who play hard and can make plays when they need to. A defense coached by a D-coordinator that was touted as a 3-4 master - yet clearly let things go and never produced with this squad anythign better than average.
IMO - 1st big mistake last year was getting rid of most of all the veteran leadership on defense and putting rookies in to start at all those positions with no PT experience - Then expecting them to perform at the same or better level than the previous 3 years defenses with little to no drop-off. To me that was an incredible reach and a very poor decision on the coaches parts. The team suffered major setbacks because of it all year. We went from an average to above average defense to almost last in the league - IMO Lack of experience cannot be just made up for on pure talent [Hence why i'm im in the Trade down camp] Then they kept on tinkering with the O-line after year 2 and progress being made to go to a zone blocking scheme that nobody had experience with - Thus making everyone on the line and the RB's have to relearn a new blocking scheme all over again and because of it and the lack of talent - we got rewarded with 2 more high sack seasons for Carr. To me it just showed how out of touch the staff really was with the team. Especially the ignoring of McNair and the O-line talent level even when the owner clearly showed he was willing to spend the money to do whatever we needed and the staff just treated him like they were deaf - Get some FA patchwork fix players and took the "its good enough" philosophy when it clearly was obvious to pretty much everyone else in the NFL circles and fans that it was not even close to good enough to compete with an average NFL team much less playoff caliber teams. I'll stop there as the drafting and the rest just get worse.
But now we have a chance to make thigns good - get a better read on the overall team talent/production level and make some better decisions for the future. Honestly I'm hopeful and excited to see what next year brings. I'm thinking I might have a good Christmas/Birthday game to attend next year for the Texans
I'm just wondering if there goign to flush this Board again and restart next year too. I still remember the first incarnation - lol boy you think we got flames and trolls right now from the VY debate - Sheesh that first Texan Mboard was bloody ugly!! Heck I still remember the team taking the MB down because it got so bad - If I recall right Vinny even got banned at one point - lol -
Jack Bauer
Rookie
TheOgre said:
t.u. is correct. We know how sips prefer it, but that does not make it correct!
Jack Bauer
Rookie
Texans_Chick said:
If a coach thinks DC is a problem, I think he would bring it up. If Carr's production does not improve under the new HC who said that Carr was not the problem, the HC will be gone after two years. It would not be in the potential HC's best interest to say that Carr is not the problem.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
U4ikrob said:
You are not alone. Anyone who's spent any time at all on this or any of the other Texans boards can attest to the fact that the coaching staff has concerned a lot of people from the very first season. It's not like we were real worried about Dom Capers but his assistants made many of us hesitate a little bit. Chris Palmer and Dom Capers didn't seem like a good philisophical mix and Fangio's record in Indy was brought up regularly. When the defense came out and played well in 2002 we all assumed that meant that he just didn't have the players he needed when he was with the Colts.
I don't look at the people on this board (including myself) as a collection of the greatest football minds ever assembled because we're not. We're just a fairly accurate cross section of the fanbase. We've all been pretty vocal about how this didn't seem to fit together correctly. It's just that the evidence has gotten increasingly hard to ignore as the years went by.
Htown34s
Waterboy
I would be astonished if a single coach interviewed said that they should draft VY. He is a risk, and they would all play it safe with that answer. It was no secret who the Texans were leaning towards, so possibly all of the candidates didn't want to confront Casserly's favorite and take themselves out of the running for HC.
Porky
Hall of Fame
I will definetely back up Herv and u4ikrob on their thoughts.
I don't doubt for a minute that this isn't "made up" as marcus seems to be suggesting. I think Cass or some other high level individual is feeding him info. There is an old adage in politics. Get the bad news out first. When there is a skeleton in the closet, the politician's handlers will leak that info to the media so that the shock has died down, the pol has answered the questions, and thier opponent cannot bring it up at the last minute prior to the draft... errr election. This is no different. They are leaking this to the press so that by the time the draft rolls around, the early negative reactions will have died down, and to let us fans know that we aren't going to get the local hero here, so DEAL WITH IT!
The other interesting tidbit is that he says Kubiak will serve as the offensive coordinator and will be calling his own plays. My initial reaction to that is positive, as I think he has been great in Denver in that capacity, but we will have to see how that plays out here. Will he be stretched too thin?
I don't doubt for a minute that this isn't "made up" as marcus seems to be suggesting. I think Cass or some other high level individual is feeding him info. There is an old adage in politics. Get the bad news out first. When there is a skeleton in the closet, the politician's handlers will leak that info to the media so that the shock has died down, the pol has answered the questions, and thier opponent cannot bring it up at the last minute prior to the draft... errr election. This is no different. They are leaking this to the press so that by the time the draft rolls around, the early negative reactions will have died down, and to let us fans know that we aren't going to get the local hero here, so DEAL WITH IT!
The other interesting tidbit is that he says Kubiak will serve as the offensive coordinator and will be calling his own plays. My initial reaction to that is positive, as I think he has been great in Denver in that capacity, but we will have to see how that plays out here. Will he be stretched too thin?
Vinny
shiny happy fan
seriously...how much time do you think Capers spent breaking down film of Matt Hasslebeck or Chad Pennington during the season? How much film other than opposing teams did Pendry or Palmer view on teams that may need a HC next year, or to gather and break down film of Vince Young? When do they have time for this? Why would Cam Cameron or Kubiak have a friggin clue how Carr breaks down on film unless they studied a large body of work...but they are working currently on their own teams missions (at least Kubiak is at this point). I think most of the fans and some of the media are making way way too much out of percieved favorites and perceived notions coaches may have.Htown34s said:
Hervoyel said:
What's conspicuously absent from the article however, is a quote from anyone associated with the brain trust to back up Lopez' assertion.
Who said "all seven candidates voiced the same opinion?" McNair? Casserly? Reeves? McNair? Burguieres? The towel boy?
Maybe Lopez arranged exclusive interviews with the seven to draw this conclusion.
Or maybe it was 'a source...'
Vinny
shiny happy fan
True dat. Any time you negotiate or use posture/leverage you talk UP what you are trying to build value in....then later throw down an excuse like...."we love carr but there is too much fan pressure for the local boy.....but we love him....was that a mid first you said you may have to offer?"
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Vinny said:
Moreover, I would think that his agency, Octagon, would be speaking with teams as well. If that were the case it would have hit the Did Your Hear the Rumor Channel by now.
tulexan
Hall of Fame
Vinny said:
Considering that these interviews lasted 8 hours, I believe that they could break down a large body of work of Carr's game film.
I also don't think that they are talking Carr up just to trade him because they aren't going to sign him and then trade him. If they did, they would be taking a big cap hit and have a lot of dead money sitting on the cap.
tulexan
Hall of Fame
Porky said:
I think you are right about this. They are starting to gradually prepare the potential disgruntled fans for the inevitable. I didn't see Casserly on ESPN News yesterday, but I read the thread about it which had the recap and it sounded like that was exactly what he is doing. I agree with what Lopez is saying too. If Bush is their guy, they should just come out and say it. There is no point in leading the Longhorn fans on if they have no intention to draft him and get them all pissed off on draft day. Let them be upset now and they will eventually warm to the idea as time goes on.
SteelBlueToro
Waterboy
I'm sure they were given tasks prior to the interview so that they could speak intelligently about the team. To me - that seems like a given.
And that article by John "I vote for Reggie Bush before I voted against him" McClain... He tries to make the case that Kubiak, a former qb, would use the Denver scheme here and would not take a rb with the first pick, and would be good to develop Vince Young into a qb. Ok, first, McClain, et al have stated all along that David Carr has not been given the proper tools to succeed. What better situation to develop the first player ever selected by the Texans than to put him with a coach who is skilled at developing qbs? Also, it is unlikely that Denver ever had the opportunity to pick a player like Reggie Bush with the first pick. Few players can play as many positions and can do the things that Reggie Bush can do.
And that article by John "I vote for Reggie Bush before I voted against him" McClain... He tries to make the case that Kubiak, a former qb, would use the Denver scheme here and would not take a rb with the first pick, and would be good to develop Vince Young into a qb. Ok, first, McClain, et al have stated all along that David Carr has not been given the proper tools to succeed. What better situation to develop the first player ever selected by the Texans than to put him with a coach who is skilled at developing qbs? Also, it is unlikely that Denver ever had the opportunity to pick a player like Reggie Bush with the first pick. Few players can play as many positions and can do the things that Reggie Bush can do.
MightyTExan
It's go time!
Someone posted on the Chronic messageboard that they already picked up Carr's option and are keeping it hush-hush.
http://forums.chron.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=messages&tsn=1&tid=129&webtag=hc-texans
http://forums.chron.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=messages&tsn=1&tid=129&webtag=hc-texans