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Chronic: Texans' CB tries to make most of second chance

SESupergenius said:
He couldn't beat out anyone last year and when he was inserted into the lineup, what great feats did he produce? Aaron Glenn got some pretty good numbers in that defense, of which PBuke essentially replaced.
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Experienced player vs. not so much. PBuc didn't really have much time to get used to the system--lots of tough teams early in the season, he gets pulled, starts playing a little better, and then gets hurt. You know, there were all sorts of teams that looked bad playing the Steelers last year.

AND, if your freaking offense is a 3 and out machine, your defense is going to look like a bucket of crap no matter who is playing on it.

Personally, I am not so interested in scapegoating and history reliving and more interested in information--like whether the secondary is feeling better in this scheme.

I know I for one have not let up on ANY of the cornerbacks in this defense, Buchanon is no different, but he is undoubted the a bigger cause of the problems than most. I regard Dunta has good 2nd cornerback, certainly not in an elite class. Oh, and all you had to do was watch a couple of games to see that Buchanon is stinky.....well before he got to Houston.
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It would be interesting to see what the secondary would look like if the opposing QB didn't have time to set up a tailgate in the backfield.

Cornerback is not. In fact cornerback is one of the most instinctive positions on the field that requires less technique than other postions. That's not to say they don't need coaching, but they certainly rely on their God-given talent more than most. I'd rather throw a rookie CB into the fire than a QB or Receiver.
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How about an entire secondary full of rookies??? It was a bunch of green players and a disgruntled Marcus Coleman. I don't care how talented you are, if you secondary is green and you have no pass rush, nobody is going to look particularly good.

Yeah, a rookie CB can play, but usually they get tested until they can show that they can play the position. The NFL is littered with promising rookie CB who lost their confidence from being repeatingly burned.
 
Vambo said:
I second your point of view but perhaps not the examples... (CC Brown was a 6th round rookie last year that beat out the starter. Unless you are saying he isn't big enough, fast enough, smart enough, etc..we don't know what he can do, right?)
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I certainly wasn't trying to bash Brown. I actually like the guy, but the fact that he was a 6th rounder that beat out a starter says as much about the starter as it does Brown. The league is filled with sixth round picks who play very well, but I don't expect Brown to get much better than he already is. He'll improve some with experience, but I'd feel much more comfortable if he were a backup than a starter. Maybe I didn't word my previous post very well. Part of my point was that Buchanon has a much higher ceiling than Brown but Brown may end up being the better player.
 
AFD1717 said:
I certainly wasn't trying to bash Brown. I actually like the guy, but the fact that he was a 6th rounder that beat out a starter says as much about the starter as it does Brown. The league is filled with sixth round picks who play very well, but I don't expect Brown to get much better than he already is. He'll improve some with experience, but I'd feel much more comfortable if he were a backup than a starter. Maybe I didn't word my previous post very well. Part of my point was that Buchanon has a much higher ceiling than Brown but Brown may end up being the better player.
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Brown got a pick in camp today :)
 
I mentioned this earlier in this thread but I didn't see anyone take notice.

The team should play to his strengths, he should be returning punts at a minimum and kickoffs until Mathis get better. From what I have read and seen, he has the talent to do both.

Then if you work in some CB duties, this could work out in terms of production.

How we got him is done (totally agree with you Porky), let's make the best of it. That at least gives him a shot to stay with the team because I think this is the last year of his contract.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Experienced player vs. not so much. PBuc didn't really have much time to get used to the system--lots of tough teams early in the season, he gets pulled, starts playing a little better, and then gets hurt. You know, there were all sorts of teams that looked bad playing the Steelers last year.
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That's a line for rookies, not a veteran like Buchanon. The beauty of it all was that Buchanon had already seen the 3-4 prior to last year and was supposed to step right in and contribute. We were told that if he played consistantly then he'd be good for us. The only thing he is consistant at is being inconsistant.

Texans_Chick said:
How about an entire secondary full of rookies??? It was a bunch of green players and a disgruntled Marcus Coleman. I don't care how talented you are, if you secondary is green and you have no pass rush, nobody is going to look particularly good.

Yeah, a rookie CB can play, but usually they get tested until they can show that they can play the position. The NFL is littered with promising rookie CB who lost their confidence from being repeatingly burned.
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Tell that to the Eagles that pretty much gutted their secondary and made it to the playoffs...and hold on....Superbowl.

A group of green secondary players is going to be ahead in development than a group green offensive players.
 
SESupergenius said:
Tell that to the Eagles that pretty much gutted their secondary and made it to the playoffs...and hold on....Superbowl.

A group of green secondary players is going to be ahead in development than a group green offensive players.
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Well, that is a bit of an overstatement. Lito Sheppard was a 2002 1st round draft pick and was on his 3rd year in the league/2nd year as a starter when they went to the SB. Sheldon Brown was a 2002 2nd round draft pick nd was on his 3rd year in the leagu/2nd year as a starter when they went to the SB. Michael Lewis SS was a 2002 2nd round pick and 4 year starter. Brian Dawkins FS was 2nd round pick and an 8 year starter at that point. Basically they let Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent (older and more expensive players) go for two high draft picks they had developed in the system for at least a year.
 
infantrycak said:
Well, that is a bit of an overstatement. Lito Sheppard was a 2002 1st round draft pick and was on his 3rd year in the league/2nd year as a starter when they went to the SB. Sheldon Brown was a 2002 2nd round draft pick nd was on his 3rd year in the leagu/2nd year as a starter when they went to the SB. Michael Lewis SS was a 2002 2nd round pick and 4 year starter. Brian Dawkins FS was 2nd round pick and an 8 year starter at that point. Basically they let Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent (older and more expensive players) go for two high draft picks they had developed in the system for at least a year.
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Oh and what there not an overexaggeration on Dunta (his 2nd year, 2nd year starting) and Buchanon (3rd year, 3rd year starting)
 
SESupergenius said:
Oh and what there not an overexaggeration on Dunta (his 2nd year, 2nd year starting) and Buchanon (3rd year, 3rd year starting)
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I was only addressing the part about Philly gutting their secondary and making it to the SB. P-Buc should pick things up faster than a pure rookie. OTOH it does take at least a little while for anyone to learn a new system. P-Buc will be on his 4th NFL system not in his 5th year. It is a contrast, but one which can easily be overstated, from Lito Sheppard say who has grown up in one system his whole career.

Change of scenery/scheme works sometimes. Deltha O'Neal was considered a bust and malcontent who was being converted to WR in Denver. In Cinncy he is a pro-bowler.
 
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