Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Christian Hackenberg
- Thread starter Texian
- Start date
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Charles Davis: Christian Hackenberg could be draft's No. 1 pick
Add NFL Media analyst Charles Davis to the list of those that see the highest of NFL draft potential in Penn State quarterback Christian Hackenberg, despite a rough sophomore season that fell short on both production and expectations.
"I see (a) guy who could be everything, I see a guy who could be the No. 1 pick in the draft," Davis told The Associated Press.
Davis didn't indicate how soon he expects Hackenberg to be draft eligible. As a junior this fall, he could be available in either the 2016 or 2017 NFL Draft, depending on whether he applies for and is granted early draft eligibility after the 2015 season. But former Detroit Lions president Matt Millen, who played for Penn State in the late 1970s, believes Hackenberg will enter the draft in 2016 as a top-five pick.
"This is going to be his last year, too," Millen said last month. "I don't see him staying four years. He is really talented. ... He's a top-five pick."
An NFL scout recently echoed Millen's assessment of Hackenberg's draft potential. But for the former five-star recruit, potential hasn't yet crossed paths with production. Hackenberg threw only 12 touchdown passes last season, just four in Big Ten play, and threw 15 interceptions. However, his protection was awful -- he was sacked 44 times -- and Penn State coach James Franklin is quick to point out that Hackenberg's struggles last year weren't all his own fault. PSU was also inexperienced at wide receiver, giving Hackenberg the toughest of circumstances.
Clearly, bigger things are expected in 2015.
"I see (a) guy who could be everything, I see a guy who could be the No. 1 pick in the draft," Davis told The Associated Press.
Davis didn't indicate how soon he expects Hackenberg to be draft eligible. As a junior this fall, he could be available in either the 2016 or 2017 NFL Draft, depending on whether he applies for and is granted early draft eligibility after the 2015 season. But former Detroit Lions president Matt Millen, who played for Penn State in the late 1970s, believes Hackenberg will enter the draft in 2016 as a top-five pick.
"This is going to be his last year, too," Millen said last month. "I don't see him staying four years. He is really talented. ... He's a top-five pick."
An NFL scout recently echoed Millen's assessment of Hackenberg's draft potential. But for the former five-star recruit, potential hasn't yet crossed paths with production. Hackenberg threw only 12 touchdown passes last season, just four in Big Ten play, and threw 15 interceptions. However, his protection was awful -- he was sacked 44 times -- and Penn State coach James Franklin is quick to point out that Hackenberg's struggles last year weren't all his own fault. PSU was also inexperienced at wide receiver, giving Hackenberg the toughest of circumstances.
Clearly, bigger things are expected in 2015.
Interesting how different people can look at the same thing & come to different conclusions. They're saying the defense is playing man coverage in that first play... but the way the defender comes off the second receiver to cover the motion man says zone to me.
Kinda hard to see the ball though, where did it land on that first throw? Did it at least hit the receiver?
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Feel so damn bad for Hack. Sacked 10 times on 35 drop backs. This was pretty much every play...
/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4033408/temple.0.gif)
Temple was rushing 3 and dropping 8 all night and Hack was still running for his life with every WR doubled. He has no chance in that offense.
Temple was rushing 3 and dropping 8 all night and Hack was still running for his life with every WR doubled. He has no chance in that offense.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
But according to many on this board, the QB is supposed to do it ALL!Feel so damn bad for Hack. Sacked 10 times on 35 drop backs. This was pretty much every play...
Temple was rushing 3 and dropping 8 all night and Hack was still running for his life with every WR doubled. He has no chance in that offense.
A first rounder would. The last guy taken in the first round, that others blamed his team for lack of success, was Jay Cutler... hindsight & all, a 1st, 11th overall was a reach.
We expect our coaches to be able to lead, inspire, motivate... I think we expect our QBs to do so at some level as well.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I posted this tweet in TexansTalk:
It is, indeed, evident that Bill O'Brien > James Franklin............especially after last season and after yesterday's game
Texian
Hall of Fame
Regarding O'Brien > Franklin, many are blaming all of Hackenberg's problem on the casts of players surrounding him. If that is truly the case then at this this stage wouldn't that onus be on O'Brien and not Franklin? From my perspective, some sacks were created by Hack holding the ball to long. The other problem I noted is when he did have time to throw he wasn't all that accurate and he lacks consistency.
Last edited:
Which is why he may fall to the 8-10 range. If that happens hopefully the Texans trade up from what I believe will be the 15-20 range and BOB can get Hack back to where he was. (Hopefully even better.) To me after the beating Hack has taken he looks gun shy.
Although some of what has happened at Penlal St. falls on BOB. Most of this falls on Franklin. I mean did Donovan Smith get picked with the 33rd pick last yr? I believe there was another OL from that group drafted also. BOB left that program in better shape than when he got there and Franklin is in over his head. Kinda like Strong is at UT.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Penn St players drafted this year were at Penn St before BOB. BOB Penn St players are now Soph and Juniors, the strength of the team. Penn St was loaded when BOB took over and only handful of players left, so did he really leave the Penal Colony in better shape? Maybe BOB poor recruitment record at Penn St is as bad as his draft record in Houston??? Lots of Penn St. fans and alumni were glad to see BOB go.
I honestly can't see how anyone would think Hackenberg is a better prospect than Tom Savage. Even with his poor performance, steelB is talking about trading up to 8 to get him.
That's insane.
That's insane.
Thanks for leaving out the probation scholarship restrictions and postseason ban that O'Brien walked into.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Hack, despite his poor press......, he racked up a 134 QB rating in 2013.....and still a 109.4 rating in 2014. No one will debating the fact that he is a classic pocket passer........in his 2013-4 seasons he manage -162 yds in 142 running attempts for an average of -1.1 yds/carry. Last year, he didn't get much help from either his support cast OR his HC game planning.
The NCAA uses a different QB rating formula than the NFL. That 109.4 looks good until you realize it ranked 113th in the nation (behind UT's Tyrone Swoopes).
We have a difference in opinion on what Hack can becoe with better coaching. He looked like a franchise QB under BOB and a pedestrian QB under Franklin. I'm better he will go back to the former under BOB. He has the skill level to become what Texans fans have been searching for since their inception.
Exactly what skills would that include?
He's got a very strong arm/comes from BOB's pro system and was a very good decision maker in that system. While not fast Hack seems to be able to climb the pocket well when getting decent protection.
In short there's a reason Hack was considered a likely 1-1 pick after his freshman season. Hack is a bad fit for Franklin's offense.
BTW my #1 QB is Goff and I also like Kiel a lot. I didn't get to watch much of Alabama and Coker last night, but people at Fla. St. swear by his talent.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I don't know if anyone in the NFL has ever considered him as a 1-1 pick, or a 1st rounder for that matter. But Hackenberg is not accurate, has no mobility, and no feel for pressure. He was one of the worst starting QBs in college football in 2014. And Hackenberg actually looks worse in 2015.
Under Franklin,
He was very accurate as a freshman. (I cant see if protected how he could lose that) The beating he took last yr is in his head. While not mobile like a Rodgers/Wilson etc.... as a freshman he was able to avoid the rush. I liken Hack to Matthew Stafford/Bradford/Palmer type QB.
Well, Hackenberg is under Franklin. For now. My guess is that any more performances like yesterday will put Hackenberg and his 1-1 potential on the bench.
I remember Brett Hundley getting a lot of criticism here for taking sacks. And that's understandable. But Hackenberg gets a pass, because it's his coach's fault or the line's fault. I just see a lot of inconsistency here in QB evaluations.
Last edited:
Your better prospects will have started for three seasons, performing better & better each year. Imp, that's what made JFF such a risky prospect. He started on fire his rookie season, & though his performance improved as a sophomore, his team didn't get better in terms of wins. I was impressed to see Johnny play so well, with a target on his back & a spotlight on him every week.
I think a third season showing comparable progress would have made him a 1st round lock for me. Had his team got 10 or more wins, even a top ten lock.
So we're set to embark on Hackenberg's third season. He'd shown no improvement his sophomore year & it is highly unlikely his team will wi. 7 games, much less 10. I find it hard to believe any team will logo at him as a possible franchise QB.
I think a third season showing comparable progress would have made him a 1st round lock for me. Had his team got 10 or more wins, even a top ten lock.
So we're set to embark on Hackenberg's third season. He'd shown no improvement his sophomore year & it is highly unlikely his team will wi. 7 games, much less 10. I find it hard to believe any team will logo at him as a possible franchise QB.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Sounds like a third round project...
Hundley let his eyes drop. I don't see that as much from Hack. BTW, Hundley is looking pretty good with the Packers this preseason.
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
Sanctions have finally caught up to PSU. Literally is going to ruin Hackenberg. While Temples program is on the rise, there not that good. Cmon 2 pass rushers beat 6 OL!!
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
They had Donovan Smith last year and still led the country in sacks allowed. Part of it is Hack (gun shy, holds the ball, no confidence anymore). Part of it is the talent (no depth, walk-on's starting on OL). Part of it is the system (Franklin putting everyone on Hack's shoulders, no easy throws, everything is straight drop, no rolling the pocket, lack of screens, etc). Also have to keep in mind that, despite the Penn State sanctions being lifted, they still only have like 65-70 scholarship players.
Personally I would put it at 25% Hack, 25% surrounding talent, and 50% coaching. I watch pretty much every Penn State game and I have no clue what their offensive coaches are doing. Repeatedly banging their head against a brick wall would be the best description. Hack is not absolved of blame, but I watch that team play and say to myself "What are these coaches doing? They are not putting these kids in a position to succeed."
Texian
Hall of Fame
Last edited:
texanhead08
All Pro
That's what probation does to a program. You can't afford to have guys flame out because you don't have depth in numbers to replace them. I remember when UH went through this in the 90's. There were years when players got injured and we had walk on players in the starting lineup. There was one year where we were down to 48 scholarship players. You have no chance to win with numbers like that.
I bet BOB/Smith pick him in the 1st.
After seeing what we got from the $5MM they paid Hoyer, I don't doubt it.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
$4.75m guaranteed over two years. Low rent that could be less than 2% on the cap per year
He's banking something like $2.5M in salary this year. His cap number is something like $5.25M. We had Fitz for $3M & regardless how much it is towards the cap, I think we could have done better in last year's market... we didn't even need to be in that market.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
His guaranteed money is all paid this year. Minimum he clears $4.75. If he is on the active roster for the year he will pocket $5.218.
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
To all my draftniks out there, assuming PSU continues its downward spiral all year, IYOS, how much does this hurt Hackenbergs stock
Hopefully to the 10-18 range where I think the Texans will be picking.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The inconsistency in evaluating qbs is pretty consistent around here. If you like the guy its the players around him and/or the coaches fault as to why his play sucks. If you dont like him, he's at fault for everything regardless of the circumstances...Its been that way since david carr dont u know that?
Except Hack looked really good in BOB's system. (A perfect fit?)
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
If Hackenberg keeps on his current course then I wouldn't even consider him in the first 3 rounds. He has top 10 tools but he looks broken right now and I'm not wasting a rounds 1-3 pick on a guy that I have to rebuild brick by brick.
Blake
MMQB
I disagree. Would his current course be these past 2 games? 9 months ago this kid was busy winning a thriller in New York by going 24/50, 371 yards, 4 TDs to zero INTS and becoming the bowl MVP. He also has had a changing of the guard on the coaching staff.
Bottom line is we need a franchise QB. And if this guy has the tools to be that then we need to pull the trigger. The NFL is a league of have and have nots. And unless Mallett proves that he is the guy then we will continue being in the have nots for the 13 consecutive year.
Kinda like Hoyer
Pulling the trigger on Hackenberg does not keep us from being a "have not"
I have no problem pulling the trigger on Hackenberg, but going the way he & his team is going, I'm thinking we should pull that trigger in the 5th round or later. Taking him in the 1st doesn't make him a better prospect. The better prospects will be taken in the first round.
Blake
MMQB
I think that is a pretty obvious statement. But a prerequisite for being in the 'have' department is by drafting a QB that you feel can be a franchise QB.
Put me in the camp that says you will be disappointed if you think Christian will be available that late.
Again, does anyone really think draft stock makes the prospect? Of course not. You keep stating things like they are my thoughts.
Are you saying we need to pull the trigger on Hackenberg in the first, or even the second? If not, then I apologize. If you are...
bah007
Hall of Fame
Nobody felt bad for Hundley. I think that's where the difference lies for some. And they can't separate that from the evaluation. He played for a wonderful coaching staff that maximized his abilities. His flaws were his flaws and were recognized as such. He was made better by the coaching he received in college. Hackenberg has been made worse.
People want to like Hackenberg because under OB he showed a glimpse of the physical talent he possesses. And then Franklin came along. He wants to run a system that Hackenberg doesn't fit into. So he either needs to change QBs or change the system. But he won't do either. I think people genuinely feel sorry for Hackenberg because of his situation. His coaches aren't putting him in a position to succeed. And because people feel bad for him they let it affect how they judge him.
Hackenberg is no longer that player that he showed evidence of during his freshman year. I made excuses for him all last year, but I've seen enough. He's been ruined. A lot of it is his own fault. He has glaring flaws that have developed to the point that I don't think they can ever be fixed.
Franklin and his staff deserve a lot of the blame. The offense up there is a wreck and they've made no effort to change up anything at all to try to create some improvement. They just keep trotting the same kids out there every week to get destroyed. Not one player on their offense has improved from last year to this year. That's a huge red flag for the coaching staff.
The reason some people are giving Hackenberg a free pass is because it is a legitimate question as to whether or not the flaws he shows are actually his flaws or flaws in others that just happen to make him look bad.
Personally, I think Hackenberg did once have the potential to be a great NFL QB. But whatever potential he had was wasted and destroyed by the current regime at Penn St. He is now a shell shocked check-down machine with zero confidence. For a QB, each snap is a chance to be the man and make a play for your team. But for him, each snap is just trying to survive against the chance that he might get destroyed again. And once that mindset creeps in it is impossible to overcome.
Last edited:
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Great post
I hope you're wrong about Hack and that he can realize his full potential. Looking bach it would've been better for Hack to transfer after BOB left. This is the reason I' for allowing kids to transfer without losing a yr after a coaching change. I know people say a recruit commits to a university not a HC or team. But that's hogwash. IMHO
I think it should be looked at on a case by case basis. We don't need to be punishing these kids & stopping them from being all they can be. At the same time, we don't need to allow them to run from their problems. & I mean serious problems; grades, legal, general trouble, that kind of thing.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I'm absolutely for kids being able to transfer after a coaching change. But there are still problems with that. Any time a school, especially a high profile one, changed regimes all their top players would basically be free agents available to the highest bidder.
This would be a step in the right direction. But a new organization would have to be created for such a thing. No way the NCAA could be trusted. They are already probably the sketchiest part of college athletics. And they would definitely want to be the decision makers in such cases.