Carr & Casserly. The Albatross.

[texan279]

With a trade for player or picks we can (a) replace Carr with a better QB, (b) build up the O Line, and (c) bolster our running back situation.

But I will admit that if we CANNOT trade Carr, well, we can only do 2 of the three things you cite, and in that case we ought to (a) replace Carr and (b) work on the offensive line.

Trade Carr? Why would we sign Carr to an extension just to trade him?

 

[Hervoyel]

You guys slay me. You have no freaking idea what went on in the exchange. You have some newspaper reports and you think they're gold. It's silly. Carr has never demonstrated any kind of leadership on this team. He's been a whiny kid who is prone to pouting, getting sacked, throwing passes in the dirt, and pretending to take his medicine as long as everyone was working as hard as possible to assure him that he was not to blame for his Shinola performance on the field.

In my view Banks could have won more games this year than Carr did, easily. Carr is a liability, plain and simple, for all the reasons that have been endlessly repeated on this and other boards. I won't relist them. Maybe if he gets a fresh start somewhere he can turn it around and become Trent Dilfer, if he's diligent and lucky.

Just about everything you've said in this thread is based on the same kind of information. You call Carr a bunch of names but you don't know anymore about what he's thought of in the locker room than anyone else in here.

At least the conclusions I pull from those same newspaper reports have some possibility of being true. If your description of David Carr is what you've concluded from four years of watching football and reading newspaper reports about the Texans I'd say you have as much chance of knowing what's going on with the Texans QB situation as you do of finding a talking mole on your body that cures cancer and sings Menudo songs.

 

[Tulip]

Herv - love the avatar!

 

[tulexan]

When Walker chewed DC's butt out, was at the latter part of a game when DC had stunk the joint up and should have been listening to his coaches.

Walker chewed DC's butt out after Corey Bradford dropped a game winning catch that hit him right in the hands.

 

[Nighthawk]

You call Carr a bunch of names but you don't know anymore about what he's thought of in the locker room than anyone else in here.

I didn't call Carr a single name.

I said (a) he's prone to pouting. I've seen this on the sidelines dozens of times since he's been a Texan.

I said (b) he's prone to getting sacked. Many folks here and elsewhere have recognized that Carr's huge sack totals are _in some measure_ his own responsibility.

I said (c) he's prone to throwing passes in the dirt. He is obviously inaccurate, doesn't throw accurately to moving targets, and throws in the dirt often when he has the slightest pressure (to be completely fair, I watch less now than I used to; for the first couple of years you would have thought there were receivers down there in the dirt, so often did Carr throw there).

I said (d) he has not demonstrated leadership. This is my sense of things by observing the team, the guys on the field around him, the figure that he cuts with his performance. The few times when alternative QBs (Banks/Ragone) have been in the game the team seems to heat up, play harder. Maybe this is my imagination, but I'm not the only one here or in the media who has noticed it.

I said (e) he really takes no blame, even when he disingenuously takes blame. This is my opinion of his public statements about the team and its predicament, including its losses over the last 4 years.

Carr's been a just barely adequate starting QB for an expansion franchise, though I honestly think we would have been better off over the last four years with practically any journeyman veteran.

Finally, part of the QB job is leadership, and thus a disproportionate percentage of the responsibility for the success or failure of a team falls to the QB. It should and the QB should have to shoulder that weight, take the benefits, pay the price for the failures.

Carr should be traded now.

 

[Wharton]

Walker chewed DC's butt out after Corey Bradford dropped a game winning catch that hit him right in the hands.

At the end of lack luster performance by DC in a game that we lost.

 

[texan279]

At the end of lack luster performance by DC in a game that we lost.

Carr was 22/30 for 219 yards, 1 TD, and 0 INT in that game, hardly a lackluster performance...

 

[Hervoyel]

I didn't call Carr a single name.

You said "He's been a whiny kid" which is in no way different from calling him "whiny kid". It's also basicaly without any basis in truth. I've been watching him play for four years and be beaten half to death and not once heard the man whine about anything. You said he was prone to pouting which is in no way different from calling him a crybaby. You said he pretends to take his medicine which is exactly like calling him a liar. Describing a behaviour instead of just tossing out the name is the same thing. If I said "Nighthawk says one thing and does another" that would be no different from calling you a liar.

I said (a) he's prone to pouting. I've seen this on the sidelines dozens of times since he's been a Texan.

So you have the power to look at a mans facial expression and tell exactly what he's thinking. You know that he's pouting because of the face he's making at a given point in time? I'm calling bull**** on that.

I said (b) he's prone to getting sacked. Many folks here and elsewhere have recognized that Carr's huge sack totals are _in some measure_ his own responsibility.

Blinding flash of the obvious. Everyone here knows that Carr has been sacked to pieces the last four years. Nobody here (with a clue) believes that his sack problems are solely on the offensive line.

I said (c) he's prone to throwing passes in the dirt. He is obviously inaccurate, doesn't throw accurately to moving targets, and throws in the dirt often when he has the slightest pressure (to be completely fair, I watch less now than I used to; for the first couple of years you would have thought there were receivers down there in the dirt, so often did Carr throw there).

Carr has thrown some passes in the dirt. I'd stop far short of saying he's prone to it or has some kind of predisposition to do that. I've watched a lot of football in my time and David Carr doesn't throw the ball in the dirt any more than any other QB I've ever watched play. Basically I'm saying that my observations directly contradict yours.

I said (d) he has not demonstrated leadership. This is my sense of things by observing the team, the guys on the field around him, the figure that he cuts with his performance. The few times when alternative QBs (Banks/Ragone) have been in the game the team seems to heat up, play harder. Maybe this is my imagination, but I'm not the only one here or in the media who has noticed it.

Again I've seen the man demonstrate leadership. I completely disagree with you on that. I've seen him stand there and urge the coaches to go for it and I've seen them tuck their tail between their legs and punt the ball away or kick the safe FG. I completely deny that David Carr lacks leadership ability and believe that he's been placed in a position where he literally cannot win for trying. The mans development as an NFL QB has been brought to a complete halt and he continues to try to win and to pick himself back up. THAT is leadership. It was considered leadership when Warren Moon did it before he ever made it to a Pro Bowl and it was considered leadership when Dan Pastorini did it in the late 70's wearing a flak jacket to protect his ribs.

Put the man in an offense that gives him a chance to succeed and see what happens. If he fails then fine, point conceeded. Right now he's being killed by a pack of pathetic fans who are lay the entire organizations faults at his feet.

I said (e) he really takes no blame, even when he disingenuously takes blame. This is my opinion of his public statements about the team and its predicament, including its losses over the last 4 years.

Ludicrous. You're talking about a team that's four years old. In 2002 nobody took any blame and nor were they asked to. In 2003 everyone was happy with Carr's progression and again nobody took any blame. 36 sacks man. the Texans allowed 36 sacks. Did Carr suddenly stop causing sacks? The fans clearly understood that they'd seen improvement and nobody held the rash of defensive injuries against this team. In 2004 we again saw statistical improvement in every single catagory except for sacks. You blame them on the man getting sacked and I blame them on the system that man was playing in. In 2005 the wheels came off of everything. Offense, Defense, you name it. At no point in this season did I see David Carr try to shift blame from himself to anyone else.

Nighthawk I don't even know what you're looking at.

Carr's been a just barely adequate starting QB for an expansion franchise, though I honestly think we would have been better off over the last four years with practically any journeyman veteran.

Finally, part of the QB job is leadership, and thus a disproportionate percentage of the responsibility for the success or failure of a team falls to the QB. It should and the QB should have to shoulder that weight, take the benefits, pay the price for the failures.

Carr should be traded now.

Prior to this season Carr's progress was equal to or ahead of the progress of a number of QB's who have gone on to very good careers in the NFL. Yes we should have started a journeyman in 2002 as well as 2003 but it's too late to go back and change that now. Carr has been getting it done.

You want him gone because you're an impatient fan who's got a crush on a college QB who just won a big game. You want him gone because your team hasn't won enough in the four years it has existed and you want someone else to blame besides the men who've already taken the fall (and deservedly so). You complain about how Carr has failed to "burn it up" in our system for the past four years but you fail to take into account the system he's been running. If you stuck John Elway on a team running the option would you gripe because he didn't have the numbers? If you put Steve Young on a team where the coaching staff routinely handed momentum back to their opponents once they got up by 7 or 10 points would you complain that he didn't really put it on anybody?

The most satisfying thing about this offseason is that none of you will get the change you're demanding. The Texans will not draft Vince Young and they will not trade Carr. He will get a chance to prove that the problem went out the door with our coaching staff and I'll get the chance to rub your nose in it when you clamber back onto the bandwagon.

 

[edo783]

You said "He's been a whiny kid" which is in no way different from calling him "whiny kid". It's also basicaly without any basis in truth. I've been watching him play for four years and be beaten half to death and not once heard the man whine about anything. You said he was prone to pouting which is in no way different from calling him a crybaby. You said he pretends to take his medicine which is exactly like calling him a liar. Describing a behaviour instead of just tossing out the name is the same thing. If I said "Nighthawk says one thing and does another" that would be no different from calling you a liar.



So you have the power to look at a mans facial expression and tell exactly what he's thinking. You know that he's pouting because of the face he's making at a given point in time? I'm calling bull**** on that.



Blinding flash of the obvious. Everyone here knows that Carr has been sacked to pieces the last four years. Nobody here (with a clue) believes that his sack problems are solely on the offensive line.



Carr has thrown some passes in the dirt. I'd stop far short of saying he's prone to it or has some kind of predisposition to do that. I've watched a lot of football in my time and David Carr doesn't throw the ball in the dirt any more than any other QB I've ever watched play. Basically I'm saying that my observations directly contradict yours.



Again I've seen the man demonstrate leadership. I completely disagree with you on that. I've seen him stand there and urge the coaches to go for it and I've seen them tuck their tail between their legs and punt the ball away or kick the safe FG. I completely deny that David Carr lacks leadership ability and believe that he's been placed in a position where he literally cannot win for trying. The mans development as an NFL QB has been brought to a complete halt and he continues to try to win and to pick himself back up. THAT is leadership. It was considered leadership when Warren Moon did it before he ever made it to a Pro Bowl and it was considered leadership when Dan Pastorini did it in the late 70's wearing a flak jacket to protect his ribs.

Put the man in an offense that gives him a chance to succeed and see what happens. If he fails then fine, point conceeded. Right now he's being killed by a pack of pathetic fans who are lay the entire organizations faults at his feet.



Ludicrous. You're talking about a team that's four years old. In 2002 nobody took any blame and nor were they asked to. In 2003 everyone was happy with Carr's progression and again nobody took any blame. 36 sacks man. the Texans allowed 36 sacks. Did Carr suddenly stop causing sacks? The fans clearly understood that they'd seen improvement and nobody held the rash of defensive injuries against this team. In 2004 we again saw statistical improvement in every single catagory except for sacks. You blame them on the man getting sacked and I blame them on the system that man was playing in. In 2005 the wheels came off of everything. Offense, Defense, you name it. At no point in this season did I see David Carr try to shift blame from himself to anyone else.

Nighthawk I don't even know what you're looking at.




Prior to this season Carr's progress was equal to or ahead of the progress of a number of QB's who have gone on to very good careers in the NFL. Yes we should have started a journeyman in 2002 as well as 2003 but it's too late to go back and change that now. Carr has been getting it done.

You want him gone because you're an impatient fan who's got a crush on a college QB who just won a big game. You want him gone because your team hasn't won enough in the four years it has existed and you want someone else to blame besides the men who've already taken the fall (and deservedly so). You complain about how Carr has failed to "burn it up" in our system for the past four years but you fail to take into account the system he's been running. If you stuck John Elway on a team running the option would you gripe because he didn't have the numbers? If you put Steve Young on a team where the coaching staff routinely handed momentum back to their opponents once they got up by 7 or 10 points would you complain that he didn't really put it on anybody?

The most satisfying thing about this offseason is that none of you will get the change you're demanding. The Texans will not draft Vince Young and they will not trade Carr. He will get a chance to prove that the problem went out the door with our coaching staff and I'll get the chance to rub your nose in it when you clamber back onto the bandwagon.

Good post Herv.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Hervoyel, I have nothing to say except I love your avatar. That rap on SNL is saved on my system and solid gold..lol

 

[Wharton]

Carr was 22/30 for 219 yards, 1 TD, and 0 INT in that game, hardly a lackluster performance...

ok, I'll bump it up to average.

Its still one of his best performances of the year, and at best its average!

 

[texan279]

ok, I'll bump it up to average.

Its still one of his best performances of the year, and at best its average!

Yeah, it's nothing for a QB to go out in a game and have a rating of 104.7, pretty average to me...

 

[Hervoyel]

ok, I'll bump it up to average.

Its still one of his best performances of the year, and at best its average!

Saying that is like signing your name to the bottom of a sign that reads "I don't know what I'm looking at" and then hanging it around your neck. I can't believe you said that.