Carr & Casserly. The Albatross.

[Nighthawk]

Carr and Casserly are parts of the problem. They were participating members in the destruction of this team.

Carr doesn’t have enough gravitas (a fancy word for testicles) to carry this team, to butt heads with the coaches, to really drive this club. He’s a sweet little boy who played a pretty good QB in college, small college, that is. In the NFL he just looks lost.

Casserly, who McNair should never have allowed to stay past Capers, is invested in Carr and in the status quo and in proving, by hook or crook, that whoever he spent McNair’s money on is who the money should have been spent on. That is, Casserly is committed to saving his so called “reputation” and thus his livelihood. It makes sense and you would be, too. On the other hand, McNair and the fans of the Texans have to pay for all his mistakes, and any new mistakes he’s about to make, too.

The best possible move now is trade Carr if you can, draft Young, bring in a good veteran to run the team for a year or so (McNair, Kitna, Brad Johnson, you choose). If there’s any truth at all to the Miami rumor, we should jump on it tonight.

 

[bigcarlos]

I hope that rumor is true

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

What Miami rumor?????????????

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

What Miami rumor?????????????

Nevermind, found out.

 

[texan279]

OK, I somewhat agree with the take on Cass, but the Carr you describe is not the Carr I have watched for the past 4 years. The Carr I've seen has had his skills and confidence stolen from him by the coaching and our front office who have failed to address the offensive line problem. Now, I am not saying Carr is the best QB of all time or that he has done nothing that deserves blame in the last 4 years, but I cannot blame him at all for the "destruction" of this team.

 

[bubbajaxonbrown]

OK, I somewhat agree with the take on Cass, but the Carr you describe is not the Carr I have watched for the past 4 years. The Carr I've seen has had his skills and confidence stolen from him by the coaching and our front office who have failed to address the offensive line problem. Now, I am not saying Carr is the best QB of all time or that he has done nothing that deserves blame in the last 4 years, but I cannot blame him at all for the "destruction" of this team.

That's why its best to part ways with him now. Give him a chance in a new place and give the team a chance with a new QB.

I firmly believe CC is taking the team down with him in order to not admit failure. He has been perceived as "Genius" on this same forum all summer for his moves and drafts and now he has been graded by the ultimate NFL GPA...WINS! He's here to stay for another year (at least) so let's hope he makes the best decisions from here on out.

Also note...

This year McNair and Reeves will have a lot of influence on decisions CC may have had full power over in the past. Decisions will be thought out in a 3-party capacity this off-season.

 

[texan279]

That's why its best to part ways with him now. Give him a chance in a new place and give the team a chance with a new QB.

I firmly believe CC is taking the team down with him in order to not admit failure. He has been perceived as "Genius" on this same forum all summer for his moves and drafts and now he has been graded by the ultimate NFL GPA...WINS! He's here to stay for another year (at least) so let's hope he makes the best decisions from here on out.

Also note...

This year McNair and Reeves will have a lot of influence on decisions CC may have had full power over in the past. Decisions will be thought out in a 3-party capacity this off-season.

Why not give Carr a chance here with another coach and an upgraded offensive line (if the front office upgrades it)?

 

[bubbajaxonbrown]

Why not give Carr a chance here with another coach and an upgraded offensive line (if the front office upgrades it)?

My whole point is before Reeves showed up CC wouldn't upgrade the OL b/c he thinks he picked the right guys the first time around. I think he feels Carr defines his competence.

Carr is tough as nails. I'll defend him for that all day long. But it's time to let him try behind a good OL somewhere else b/c no matter who we bring in our OL will bite this next season again b/c they will have to "gel" or that'll be the excuse next October if the line is getting our QB killed. I'd like to give him a chance somewhere else and let Young come in, take his bumps and bruises and losses for one season (much like Aikman, Brees, and Elway had to) and grow up or sit him behind a competent vet like Kitna or Flutie or (if GOD would bless us) Farve to learn for a season or 2. Either would be best for the Texans AND Carr at this point.

Let's not get the kid killed!!!

Now this year I actually have confidence in their decision since they will have 3 execs with input on what to do with that #1 pick.

 

[Nighthawk]

OK, I somewhat agree with the take on Cass, but the Carr you describe is not the Carr I have watched for the past 4 years. The Carr I've seen has had his skills and confidence stolen from him by the coaching and our front office who have failed to address the offensive line problem. Now, I am not saying Carr is the best QB of all time or that he has done nothing that deserves blame in the last 4 years, but I cannot blame him at all for the "destruction" of this team.

From a hard nosed football or business point if view, it does not matter HOW Carr became part of the problem, it only matters that now he IS part of the problem.

He's a nice guy (maybe), and tough as nails (well, sorta), and has a lot of arm strength, but by now that's about it as far as his credentials go. He's had four years to demonstrate his worth, his greatness, his qualities, and whaat he's actually done is show us he MIGHT be a pretty good QB _IF_ he has a whole lot of help. He needs more help than he gives.

Contrast THAT with Young's Rose Bowl performance and you've got the whole argument summed up in a nutshell. And for those who yell "you're naming Young on the basis of ONE GAME," well, no, I'm not. Not even close. It's three years of games, three years of growth, and three years of development as a person and a leader.

 

[hot pickle]

the only thing i worry about with carr is that the texans might have ruined him already, its gonna be a tough decission for the texans

 

[texan279]

From a hard nosed football or business point if view, it does not matter HOW Carr became part of the problem, it only matters that now he IS part of the problem.

He's a nice guy (maybe), and tough as nails (well, sorta), and has a lot of arm strength, but by now that's about it as far as his credentials go. He's had four years to demonstrate his worth, his greatness, his qualities, and whaat he's actually done is show us he MIGHT be a pretty good QB _IF_ he has a whole lot of help. He needs more help than he gives.

Contrast THAT with Young's Rose Bowl performance and you've got the whole argument summed up in a nutshell. And for those who yell "you're naming Young on the basis of ONE GAME," well, no, I'm not. Not even close. It's three years of games, three years of growth, and three years of development as a person and a leader.

Sure Carr needs more help, he needs at least a freakin' average NFL offensive line! And as far as Vince, sure he has me re considering wanting to trade down if he declares, but look at the line he works behind. Vince could have stood back there and read War and Peace last night behind that line. You bring in Vince or any other QB for that matter and put him behind this O line and we are looking at the same situation in another 4 years.

 

[texan279]

the only thing i worry about with carr is that the texans might have ruined him already, its gonna be a tough decission for the texans

Casserly has already said Carr is staying and that we are not drafting Leinhart, and I would not think that would be any kind of smoke screen or draft trickery considering it would benefit us more to just say "I don't know" or "We'll wait and see".

 

[LongBignasty1]

And if you flush Vince out of the pocket you'll pay!

 

[ThaShark316]

Ok, I don't know the Miami rumor...someone school me.

 

[texan279]

Ok, I don't know the Miami rumor...someone school me.

Rumor going around that if we hire Linehan, we might trade Carr to Miami for Ricky Williams and a draft pick...

 

[ThaShark316]

Yeah, I just saw it on the draft board...damn, that would crazy.

 

[Grid]

If Carr turns it around with a new coach.. and a better Oline.. I am going to ride all yalls asses about this until he retires ..

I should write down names.

 

[texan279]

If Carr turns it around with a new coach.. and a better Oline.. I am going to ride all yalls asses about this until he retires ..

I should write down names.

Should we start a new club?

 

[LongBignasty1]

Grid you can put me in list but i honestly don't think Carr will ever be a Superstar QB(multiple years off kicking @$$ and taking names)

 

[bubbajaxonbrown]

If Carr turns it around with a new coach.. and a better Oline.. I am going to ride all yalls asses about this until he retires ..

I should write down names.

Don't take it personal Grid. This is going to be a discussion for those of us that won't take the "Stop talking about Carr b/c I said so!" or "Carr's not going anywhere b/c I heard CC say so!" responses and shut up. We'll discuss openly on this forum until he produces.

Dude, we all wish Carr was an All-pro by now but he's not and noone knows for sure if it is the OL. Not even Carr knows for sure. We're just considering other options like everyone should. Unless you are Superbowl Champs, your team needs changes. At 2-14, we need the most.

 

[texan279]

Don't take it personal Grid. This is going to be a discussion for those of us that won't take the "Stop talking about Carr b/c I said so!" or "Carr's not going anywhere b/c I heard CC say so!" responses and shut up. We'll discuss openly on this forum until he produces.

Dude, we all wish Carr was an All-pro by now but he's not and noone knows for sure if it is the OL. Not even Carr knows for sure. We're just considering other options like everyone should. Unless you are Superbowl Champs, your team needs changes. At 2-14, we need the most.

Why just change the QB, why not the entire team?

 

[bubbajaxonbrown]

Why just change the QB, why not the entire team?

I'm open to possibilities. As long as we keep AJ and Dunta we can CUT THEM ALL!!!

 

[Grid]

your free to discuss what ya want and all.. but damn guys.. Carr still plays for this team and yall are acting like you wouldnt piss on his head if his eyebrows were on fire. Try and show a little class huh? There is no unspoken rule that says you cant be courteous while criticizing a player.

(BTW this isnt directed at anyone, or everyone, in this thread. Im just going by some of the posts ive seen on the board)

 

[bubbajaxonbrown]

your free to discuss what ya want and all.. but damn guys.. Carr still plays for this team and yall are acting like you wouldnt piss on his head if his eyebrows were on fire. Try and show a little class huh? There is no unspoken rule that says you cant be courteous while criticizing a player.

(BTW this isnt directed at anyone, or everyone, in this thread. Im just going by some of the posts ive seen on the board)

Agreed.

Besides, I'm more anti-Casserly than anything. I just use Carr as a means to correct an ongoing problem of lack of team management. He better make a serious play for Bentley if he wants any support in the future.

 

[texan279]

your free to discuss what ya want and all.. but damn guys.. Carr still plays for this team and yall are acting like you wouldnt piss on his head if his eyebrows were on fire. Try and show a little class huh? There is no unspoken rule that says you cant be courteous while criticizing a player.

(BTW this isnt directed at anyone, or everyone, in this thread. Im just going by some of the posts ive seen on the board)

 

[Grid]

whats great is I follow that quote with the statement "try and show a little class huh?"

im a hypocrite

 

[Pscooter21]

If Carr turns it around with a new coach.. and a better Oline.. I am going to ride all yalls asses about this until he retires ..

I should write down names.

You can also put me down for I feel Carr won't become an all pro here now that some of the fans have started to lose the love for him. My dream was always that Vince coukd play for us.Then as I watched this year unfold I began to see an outside shot if we kept playing poorly. Now after him solodifying his legacy at UT it looks like my dream could happen if CC doesn't burn it like he did with DJ last year. David needs a change to salvage his carrer. They did enough to destroy it be merciful and let him go.

Later.................

pscooter21...................

 

[Malloy]

If Carr turns it around with a new coach.. and a better Oline.. I am going to ride all yalls asses about this until he retires ..

I should write down names.

Plz do

 

[Grid]

burn it like he did with DJ last year

you can always tell when a tsip is making the post.

If you want to look back on last years draft and talk about what we did wrong.. our big mistakes was not continuing to trade down and getting Luis Castillo and Odell Thurman. I dont think Derrick Johnson even got mentioned on sportscenter last season :P

And Travis Johnson has only been here one season.. and it was one season under a coaching staff that just got fired for being inept.

And honestly.. the fans need to get over the "losing the love" for Carr thing. This is quickly starting to resemble to dark days of the Oilers.. crappy fans with no class and no loyalty towards their team.

EVEN OUTSIDERS.. even division RIVALS will tell you that Carr has talent and his main problem has been a lack of good coaching, and the lack of an offensive line. But not Houston fans.... we're apparently as blind as we are ignorant. Its hard being associated with some of the people here.

 

[texan279]

you can always tell when a tsip is making the post.

If you want to look back on last years draft and talk about what we did wrong.. our big mistakes was not continuing to trade down and getting Luis Castillo and Odell Thurman. I dont think Derrick Johnson even got mentioned on sportscenter last season :P

And Travis Johnson has only been here one season.. and it was one season under a coaching staff that just got fired for being inept.

And honestly.. the fans need to get over the "losing the love" for Carr thing. This is quickly starting to resemble to dark days of the Oilers.. crappy fans with no class and no loyalty towards their team.

EVEN OUTSIDERS.. even division RIVALS will tell you that Carr has talent and his main problem has been a lack of good coaching, and the lack of an offensive line. But not Houston fans.... we're apparently as blind as we are ignorant. Its hard being associated with some of the people here.

Every post you make it's like you'r ereading my mind...I can't believe DJ was just brought up again after all the hype last season, being called "the only sure thing in the draft", and having such a mediocre season.

 

[Erratic Assassin]

The Carr I've seen has had his skills and confidence stolen from him by the coaching and our front office who have failed to address the offensive line problem.

Bingo. Casserly owes Carr a big apology for building this team backwards. You must have your o-line in place first BEFORE drafting your QB. It would be a big mistake to draft Vincent Young because we'd ruin him too.

Look at the difference between Rothlesberger's experience and Carr's. The Steelers are a solid organization, we are not and that falls squarely on Casserly's shoulders.

 

[Erratic Assassin]

Why not give Carr a chance here with another coach and an upgraded offensive line (if the front office upgrades it)?

Casserly's idea of an upgrade is Victor Riley and Todd Wade.

You're not going to get Walter Jones, Jonathan Ogden, or Willie Roaf off the scrap heap. You must give up a high first round pick.

 

[texan279]

Casserly's idea of an upgrade is Victor Riley and Todd Wade.

You're not going to get Walter Jones, Jonathan Ogden, or Willie Roaf off the scrap heap. You must give up a high first round pick.

Which is what I am leaning towards doing. Stud LT's are rarely found in free agency or later in the draft.

 

[Grid]

With the depth at OT in this draft, we could get a quality tackle prospect in the second round. we dont NEED an LT, Pitts has done well.

And with Dan Reeves consulting.. and a new head coach.. I expect that Casserly will not have quite so much control over what we do this offseason.

The line WILL be improved.. especially if we hire Kubiak and he brings hte broncos OL coach to town.

 

[HJam72]

Carr and Casserly are parts of the problem. They were participating members in the destruction of this team.

Carr doesn’t have enough gravitas (a fancy word for testicles) to carry this team, to butt heads with the coaches, to really drive this club. He’s a sweet little boy who played a pretty good QB in college, small college, that is. In the NFL he just looks lost.

Casserly, who McNair should never have allowed to stay past Capers, is invested in Carr and in the status quo and in proving, by hook or crook, that whoever he spent McNair’s money on is who the money should have been spent on. That is, Casserly is committed to saving his so called “reputation” and thus his livelihood. It makes sense and you would be, too. On the other hand, McNair and the fans of the Texans have to pay for all his mistakes, and any new mistakes he’s about to make, too.

The best possible move now is trade Carr if you can, draft Young, bring in a good veteran to run the team for a year or so (McNair, Kitna, Brad Johnson, you choose). If there’s any truth at all to the Miami rumor, we should jump on it tonight.

I don't think it's fair at all to expect a QB, especially a young one, to butt heads with his coaches. That fact that he never did is probably something we should respect and not put him down for. You might be right about Casserly though and I could live with taking Young and trading Carr because Young has impressed me, not because Carr is so bad.

 

[HoustonFrog]

If Carr turns it around with a new coach.. and a better Oline.. I am going to ride all yalls asses about this until he retires ..

I should write down names.

You can put me high on the list and I'll eat crow. I just don't think it will happen. There are alot more things to being QB than having a strong arm and surviving sacks. Carr has not grown, on his own, in 4 years. Forget coaching or what you think about the O-line. The guy hasn't taken steps himself and that is more bothersome to me. He still stares down receivers, a rookie mistake, and it is blatant. When that guy isn't open he holds the ball instead of just chunking it out of bounds. I know sometimes he has no time, but MANY times he does have time and just doesn't make the right decision. I think this goes straight to the locker room talk that he doesn't stay after practice and that he doesn't watch film after practice. He sure makes alot of HEB and hair commercials though.

I won't start on Casserly again. I'm still trying to figure out how he is still here.:brickwall

 

[Htown34s]

Which is what I am leaning towards doing. Stud LT's are rarely found in free agency or later in the draft.

But you can usually find one all throughout the first round, which we'll have every year. Ferguson isn't a top 3 pick.

 

[tulexan]

You can't really critcize him for not yelling at his coaches and his teammates. Some quarterbacks like to yell at their teammates, some don't. Dan Marino was notorious for yelling at everyone, but he also has the reputation of being a huge a-hole. Joe Montana on the other hand was calm and collected. Every player is different.

 

[Wharton]

Joe Montana on the other hand was calm and collected. Every player is different.

Montana was a natural born leader. Carr couldn't lead a heard of cattle!

 

[tulexan]

That's not the point. The poster I was replying to was criticizing Carr for not getting in the faces of the coaches and the line when they weren't performing.

 

[Runner]

That's not the point. The poster I was replying to was criticizing Carr for not getting in the faces of the coaches and the line when they weren't performing.

Getting in the faces of our recent coaching staff was akin to career suicide. The players couldn't even question some coaches, much less "get in their face".

In my opinion.

 

[Hervoyel]

Carr and Casserly are parts of the problem. They were participating members in the destruction of this team.

Carr doesn’t have enough gravitas (a fancy word for testicles) to carry this team, to butt heads with the coaches, to really drive this club. He’s a sweet little boy who played a pretty good QB in college, small college, that is. In the NFL he just looks lost.

Casserly, who McNair should never have allowed to stay past Capers, is invested in Carr and in the status quo and in proving, by hook or crook, that whoever he spent McNair’s money on is who the money should have been spent on. That is, Casserly is committed to saving his so called “reputation” and thus his livelihood. It makes sense and you would be, too. On the other hand, McNair and the fans of the Texans have to pay for all his mistakes, and any new mistakes he’s about to make, too.

The best possible move now is trade Carr if you can, draft Young, bring in a good veteran to run the team for a year or so (McNair, Kitna, Brad Johnson, you choose). If there’s any truth at all to the Miami rumor, we should jump on it tonight.

Ridiculous.

The best possible move is for the Texans to either select Reggie Bush or trade down. The name "Vince Young" doesn't even enter into any scenario for the Texans 2006 draft that contains the words "best possible move".

Vince Young needs to stay put until 2007. Put some more polish on his game, win the Heisman (probably), and gain some maturity. The Texans need to see David Carr in an offense that isn't being drawn up by Chris Palmer or Joe Pendry. If things don't work out then Young is an option in 2007.

 

[Hervoyel]

Getting in the faces of our recent coaching staff was akin to career suicide. The players couldn't even question some coaches, much less "get in their face".

In my opinion.

Well, when Carr "nutted up" to his coaches he got told by Gary Walker to "Take his coaching" and when he jumped his lines collective butts he was roundly criticized in here for not being professional or keeping himself under control.

The regime was poison IMO to players growing or moving forward in any way. Nobody got better while the Texans were led by Capers and his staff.

Complaints about Casserly are IMO a joke. He's not perfect but nobody is. He did his job. An independent consultant (Dan Reeves) stated that and Casserly was retained. Unless someone in here can make a case for being a better judge of talent than Dan Reeves or can go back in time, make different decisions, and use the results to prove that Casserly was incompetent I'm going to have to file "Fire Casserly!" posts and opinions in the bucket I keep right next to the one marked "Shinola".

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Well, when Carr "nutted up" to his coaches he got told by Gary Walker to "Take his coaching" and when he jumped his lines collective butts he was roundly criticized in here for not being professional or keeping himself under control.

The regime was poison IMO to players growing or moving forward in any way. Nobody got better while the Texans were led by Capers and his staff.

Complaints about Casserly are IMO a joke. He's not perfect but nobody is. He did his job. An independent consultant (Dan Reeves) stated that and Casserly was retained. Unless someone in here can make a case for being a better judge of talent than Dan Reeves or can go back in time, make different decisions, and use the results to prove that Casserly was incompetent I'm going to have to file "Fire Casserly!" posts and opinions in the bucket I keep right next to the one marked "Shinola".

Well said.

 

[SESupergenius]

Well, when Carr "nutted up" to his coaches he got told by Gary Walker to "Take his coaching" and when he jumped his lines collective butts he was roundly criticized in here for not being professional or keeping himself under control.

If Carr had been pissed for the coaching and Walker told him to take the coaching, then after the season Walker basically poos all over the coaching, then David was right for not taking the coaching in the first place. So basically Walker was opening his trap at Carr because Carr knew the coaching sucked, as did everyone else around here and Carr was the good little soldier. Carr is then handed the reigns on this team and guides them to their best offensive productions of the year.

Oh, and trust me, Casserly is far from being given a free pass, he's hired a consultant to look over his job as well and McNair is was forced to bring in other people to evalutate the draft as well.

 

[Wharton]

That's not the point. The poster I was replying to was criticizing Carr for not getting in the faces of the coaches and the line when they weren't performing.

Actually, that is exactly the point. Both Marino and Montana are leaders and would get in someone’s face if they thought it necessary. They had different styles of doing it, but they did do it. When Walker chewed DC's butt out, was at the latter part of a game when DC had stunk the joint up and should have been listening to his coaches. As far as the line goes, DC can chew their butts out any time he want to as far as I am concerned.

From what I understand Unitus had a nasty habit of kicking his linemen in the shins when they missed a block. Considering that none of the linemen kicked back, I would say Johnny U. was a leader. Again, DC was not, is not, and will not be a leader.

 

[texan279]

Actually, that is exactly the point. Both Marino and Montana are leaders and would get in someone’s face if they thought it necessary. They had different styles of doing it, but they did do it. When Walker chewed DC's butt out, was at the latter part of a game when DC had stunk the joint up and should have been listening to his coaches. As far as the line goes, DC can chew their butts out any time he want to as far as I am concerned.

From what I understand Unitus had a nasty habit of kicking his linemen in the shins when they missed a block. Considering that none of the linemen kicked back, I would say Johnny U. was a leader. Again, DC was not, is not, and will not be a leader.

If Carr did that, none of our linemen would be able to walk by the time week 3 rolled around.

 

[rdbrem]

We can replace Carr with a better QB. But to do that, it will cost something else. You can't get Bush, and a better QB, and a better O-line. So we gotta figure out what will improve the team the most.

I figure we either need to get a QB who can dodge bullets for an hour, or we need to improve the O-line. An improved O-line will buy time for Carr to throw, and make blocks for Bush or whoever gets back there.

Last year, we improved dramatically in kick returns, because we brought in Swinton, Mathis, Starling, etc. But in making that decision, we neglected the O-line. We didn't improve where we were hurting the most, and it killed us.

Do you really want to do that again?

And don't expect anybody to want to join this team right now, without a lot of green in front of them.

 

[Nighthawk]

If Carr had been pissed for the coaching and Walker told him to take the coaching, then after the season Walker basically poos all over the coaching, then David was right for not taking the coaching in the first place. So basically Walker was opening his trap at Carr because Carr knew the coaching sucked, as did everyone else around here and Carr was the good little soldier. Carr is then handed the reigns on this team and guides them to their best offensive productions of the year.

Oh, and trust me, Casserly is far from being given a free pass, he's hired a consultant to look over his job as well and McNair is was forced to bring in other people to evalutate the draft as well.

You guys slay me. You have no freaking idea what went on in the exchange. You have some newspaper reports and you think they're gold. It's silly. Carr has never demonstrated any kind of leadership on this team. He's been a whiny kid who is prone to pouting, getting sacked, throwing passes in the dirt, and pretending to take his medicine as long as everyone was working as hard as possible to assure him that he was not to blame for his Shinola performance on the field.

In my view Banks could have won more games this year than Carr did, easily. Carr is a liability, plain and simple, for all the reasons that have been endlessly repeated on this and other boards. I won't relist them. Maybe if he gets a fresh start somewhere he can turn it around and become Trent Dilfer, if he's diligent and lucky.

 

[Nighthawk]

We can replace Carr with a better QB. But to do that, it will cost something else. You can't get Bush, and a better QB, and a better O-line. So we gotta figure out what will improve the team the most.

I figure we either need to get a QB who can dodge bullets for an hour, or we need to improve the O-line. An improved O-line will buy time for Carr to throw, and make blocks for Bush or whoever gets back there.

Last year, we improved dramatically in kick returns, because we brought in Swinton, Mathis, Starling, etc. But in making that decision, we neglected the O-line. We didn't improve where we were hurting the most, and it killed us.

Do you really want to do that again?

And don't expect anybody to want to join this team right now, without a lot of green in front of them.

With a trade for player or picks we can (a) replace Carr with a better QB, (b) build up the O Line, and (c) bolster our running back situation.

But I will admit that if we CANNOT trade Carr, well, we can only do 2 of the three things you cite, and in that case we ought to (a) replace Carr and (b) work on the offensive line.