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Bush or Young?
- Thread starter WILLIEG
- Start date
Texans Horror
All Pro
Reasons why Bob McNair would be a fool not to take VY:
Economics: This kid will deliver more tickets, and as we all saw last year, those were some empty stadiums watching the Texans play. VY is a hometown player - he will draw Longhorns, Houstonians who watched him in HS, etc. to the games.
Leadership: One of several overall themes last year was that the team lacked leadership. In watching this kid play game after game, IMO he has the poise and the charisma to LEAD the Texans offense.
Why Not: If you are thinking about drafting Bush to replace an average to above-average back, why not replace an average to above-average QB?
Reasons why Bob McNair would be a fool to take VY:
Economics: You already have a franchise QB in DC. Why invest money in two? I don't think we will be able to trade DC for much of anything because we didn't give him a chance to burgeon in the past few years.
QB Controversy: I hate them. You don't need them. If you take Young, cash in on Carr.
Not Addressing Line Problems: This goes with the "why the heck are we drafting Bush anyways" arguement. If we have so many line problems and defense problems, why are we drafting a new QB and not answering the real Texans issues?
Economics: This kid will deliver more tickets, and as we all saw last year, those were some empty stadiums watching the Texans play. VY is a hometown player - he will draw Longhorns, Houstonians who watched him in HS, etc. to the games.
Leadership: One of several overall themes last year was that the team lacked leadership. In watching this kid play game after game, IMO he has the poise and the charisma to LEAD the Texans offense.
Why Not: If you are thinking about drafting Bush to replace an average to above-average back, why not replace an average to above-average QB?
Reasons why Bob McNair would be a fool to take VY:
Economics: You already have a franchise QB in DC. Why invest money in two? I don't think we will be able to trade DC for much of anything because we didn't give him a chance to burgeon in the past few years.
QB Controversy: I hate them. You don't need them. If you take Young, cash in on Carr.
Not Addressing Line Problems: This goes with the "why the heck are we drafting Bush anyways" arguement. If we have so many line problems and defense problems, why are we drafting a new QB and not answering the real Texans issues?
Texans Horror
All Pro
Why take Carr when you can get Leinart (undamaged goods)?
True statement. I would Take Vince should he come out, then either Ship Carr and next year's first rounder to the Jets for their 1st round pick this year and a 3rd next year or something like that. If that deal can't go thru, simply go after D'Angelo Willams with the 1st pick in the second round or hey pick up Lindel White......we all saw that he isn't that damn bad at all.oso said:
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
WILLIEG said:
A Carr/VY QB controversy is not workable and would be superdoubleplus bad given VY Longhorn roots. It would just make a mess with the fans and the media and the locker room.
VY is a leader. The Texans need leaders.
That is not to say he is going to be immediately sucessful in the league, but he ain't gonna learn from Carr.
The Bush/DD tandem hasn't really thrilled me as a concept but I was willing to give it a chance if that's the way that the man said things had to go.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Vince Young was awesome and that was incredible but Bush is the best bet for the Texans. I saw things that impressed me. He ran hard and hit people to finish plays. When he did get in the open field his speed beat anything the Texans have. The bonehead pitch, notwithstanding, he made some awesome moves on that screen pass. They just didn't get him the ball. AND he did get most of the attention and it left Leinart with all kinds of time. LenDale was part of that too.
CenTexNative
Waterboy
All this and without knowing whether or not Vince Young will even enter the draft. Y'all must not have watched the post game interviews. Vince said that next year 'we' as in the Texas Longhorns would be back to the Rose Bowl or where ever they end up. So to me that indicates he intends to be back for his Senior year.
How bout trade both of them away and get some picks to help this team. I think I am gonna puke if I read anymore of this junk by everyone thinking that having either one of these guys will make us instantly that much better. There have been many, many better running backs to enter the NFL and didn't do squat and there have been many, many quarterbacks to enter the NFL who didn't do anything once they set foot in front of of men who were bigger, faster, and stronger.
Micheal Vick ring a bell ? Seems we all heard this same stuff when he came out that he was football god. Has Atlanta won the superbowl with him, have they done much of anything they were supposed to do with him. He is an exceptional athlete but he can't do it all and now he is getting racked constantly and on injured list.
If Vince can stay a pocket passer in the NFL he would do well but most teams will want him for his running skills and sooner or later as with vick and mcnabb the linebackers or safeties catch up with you.
I am tired of having players who put fans in the seats. I want to win and go to the playoffs and we need a line and defense to do that.
B
Micheal Vick ring a bell ? Seems we all heard this same stuff when he came out that he was football god. Has Atlanta won the superbowl with him, have they done much of anything they were supposed to do with him. He is an exceptional athlete but he can't do it all and now he is getting racked constantly and on injured list.
If Vince can stay a pocket passer in the NFL he would do well but most teams will want him for his running skills and sooner or later as with vick and mcnabb the linebackers or safeties catch up with you.
I am tired of having players who put fans in the seats. I want to win and go to the playoffs and we need a line and defense to do that.
B
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Mr. B said:
there has also been a boatload of O-lineman who have never been heard of again that were drafter in Rd 1 and many teams that do well with multiple picks have a smart GM who can draft. Take a star and you still have 7 more picks. 4 in the top 66.
If the Texans take Bush with the #1 pick, I will be extremely happy.
If the Texans take Young with the #1 pick, I will be extermely happy.
Its like saying, "Congratualtions, you've just won a weekend get-away at the Love Shack with either Jennifer Lopez or Eva Longoria" Either way, I ain't gonna lose.
If the Texans take Young with the #1 pick, I will be extermely happy.
Its like saying, "Congratualtions, you've just won a weekend get-away at the Love Shack with either Jennifer Lopez or Eva Longoria" Either way, I ain't gonna lose.
Texans Horror
All Pro
Mr. B said:
What will help this team is better coaching. No Bush or Young can replace that. If the front office/coaches think that the players are better than their abilities showed them to be last year (e.g., the line will succeed without Grgamel, P-buch can play D, etc.), then they may go for an "upgrade" at QB or RB. But if they believe the team's issues cannot be solved with the current players, then we will trade that pick away.
SBTexans08
Rookie
Take Bush....without a doubt.
We have to give Carr the benefit of the doubt....he's never had a competent O-line that protects him as they should. Davis will never be the back that takes us to the next level if and when we make it to the playoffs. A back like Bush will.
VY will just suffer the same fate as Vick. When he won't be able to run (defenses will adapt quickly)....he'll see something he's not used to seeing......WRs covered and up goes the INTs or out of desperation....VY is on the injury list.
We have to give Carr the benefit of the doubt....he's never had a competent O-line that protects him as they should. Davis will never be the back that takes us to the next level if and when we make it to the playoffs. A back like Bush will.
VY will just suffer the same fate as Vick. When he won't be able to run (defenses will adapt quickly)....he'll see something he's not used to seeing......WRs covered and up goes the INTs or out of desperation....VY is on the injury list.
Txtumbleweed
Practice Squad
Young is the best QB to come along in years and might become the best ever. Houston will cry in their beer for years if they don't talk Young into coming out for the draft and sign him forever.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
gwallaia said:
Nice point.
I'm OK with the Bush pick if VY doesn't come out.
If Vince comes out, it is gonna be really ugly for the Texans and specifically Carr. My thinking:
Among the GP (general public), Carr doesn't have that much built up good will any more. He's the butt of jokes, cartoons and his own HEB commercial. Carr already hears all the stuff that he bites, and it will get really really bad if Vince comes out. And if VY succeeds somewhere else (TN especially), people in Houston will freak. It will make Nolan Ryan to the Rangers look like nuthin.
There is no more patience for the development of David Carr in the GP. VY has so much good will right now that we could stand some more difficult stuff, if it came to that. If Carr struggles one bit under a new system, the natives are gonna get really really restless.
One way or another, I would never want to bet against Vince Young in succeeding in football.
I was running around earlier today wearing my Longhorn gear. People from all different schools or nonschool were saying how they hoped the Texans took VY. The GP cares.
For people who say that it is just one game, well last night was. There are those of us who wanted to find a way to get Vince to be a Texan, but figured there was no scenario where that would work out. What last night's game did was make it viable for the Texans to take VY with the first pick. Sellable to management and sellable to the fans.
And I am not just saying this because I'm alum. If he were an Aggie or Okie or whatever, I would love for VY to be on my team. It just makes it sweeter that he is a Houstonian and loves the city.
Let the Chronic guys sell what they want to sell. Let's put the horns back on the bull and draft Vince.
Management loves Carr but geez, it is not going to do him any favors giving him no room for error next year if we pass on VY and he ends up in Tennessee.
My oh my. 2006, The Year of Hyperbole Deluxe.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Marcus said:
Ditto for me. Young is someone we can build around for years. We thought we were getting that with Carr, but instead we have a lemon. Let's make a clean break. Don't sign him, or do, and trade him. Either way, draft Young. The guy is a natural born leader and winner. I have been impressed with him all year, but after last night, he goes to the #1 spot in any draft imo. Maybe the Texans feel different, so if he comes out and Bush comes out, I am okay either way, but Young better not go to Tenn or I will be as angry as the bull on the uniform.
Texas_Thrill
Veteran
Hate to agree with this but I do. I would NOT like to see VY in Tenn though I have a feeling b/c of his relationships with McNair that's exactly what would happen.
Not to mention he does remind a lot of Mcnair when he was at Alcorn St.
I still think VY might need to go back to school for a year b/c I've just not remembered the last time a JUNIOR QB was successful.
Though if he comes out I dont want to NOT take him.
Not to mention he does remind a lot of Mcnair when he was at Alcorn St.
I still think VY might need to go back to school for a year b/c I've just not remembered the last time a JUNIOR QB was successful.
Though if he comes out I dont want to NOT take him.
Pscooter21
Practice Squad
I like the unbielevable potential of Vince Young a home town boy. I equate it to the Rockets bringing in Hakeem, and MacClane doing the same with the Rocket. This would be a great thing for the fans and the franchise. If not this could make him another MacMullen. We will have to see. The leadership Young would bring is intangeable.
Later..................
Pscooter21.....................
Later..................
Pscooter21.....................
Peldon
Rookie
Personally I would rather trade down and get more for the pick but if I had to choose I would take Young. That is just from a personal preference from what I have seen out of each of them this year. Young seems to have more of a winner's mentality than Bush. Not to say Bush doesn't have it, I have just seen it more from Young. I have always been in favor of trading down but I have just seen more from Young this year than Bush, especially in the big games. I wish we could have both though.
J
jcrown
Guest
here's an idea, pickup Carr's option and try to trade him and another player (Dominic Davis) to the Jets they need a QB or at least a backup QB and they are sitting in the fourth draft spot now we get that and draft VY with the first and still get a shot at LenDale White(RB) if Davis is traded or D'Brickshaw Ferguson(OT) because the Saints will probably take a QB Leinart and the Titans will get Bush
Just a thought
Just a thought
LBC_Justin
Rookie
That was his emotions talking.CenTexNative said:
I am sure he will be strongly advised otherwise by the people he trusts.
At this point my head is spinning with all the options we now have. Damn you Vince!!! LOL
texplayer2
Waterboy
Vince Young looked really good last night and will be a special player. I think USC's defense was not near as good as the last two years. They had real good speed, but didn't have the power guys to get through the Texas o-line. This was the advantage that Young, eventually, exploited to win the game. He will probably be a good QB for a team with a decent line and a receiver or two, but picking him up and sending Carr down the river would be like replacing Sharper this year in the middle. New QB has to learn his surrondings. The only thing I don't like about Young is his fumbling the ball. I thought SC would take advantage of that, but UT managed to hold on to most of their mistakes. A RB is still the easiest position to integrate into the offense, now though, with a new coach and a new system we could be starting from scratch. I would still take Bushes versatility(without his new pitch move
).
).
Texans86
Rookie
Didn't see them as much on page 2, but posts thinking we should trade Carr and/or DD to the Saints for their pick might not realize how much cost is involved in the first couple of picks. Those two players contracts would combine for nearly if not more than $100 million over about 5-6 years. Look at the last couple years first picks and you will see that is not a stretch, but in fact is a conservative estimate. Basically, for those two players you are paying more than highest paid, proven athletes in the NFL. It's unreasonable and cripples our team in the future. Sure we get two dynamic players who could turn out to be extremely good in the NFL. Unfortunately we might have to release half of the rest of the team and play NFL Europe players as starters.
.... and with your first post even ...
oso said:
That's exactly what I thought was going to happen, And for the most part, they have signed off on the team being talented enough to win. Signing Carr didn't sway me, where else will you find someone to experiment with the OLine for $5.25 mil a year?? Keep him 1 year, let him build up his value, then trade him away.
Signing Rosenfell(sp) for $1.7 mill kinda screws that up. That's only $700,000 more than Banks. It's a better option than Banks. I don't see us letting Ragone go, and though it's been done before, I don't see us carrying 4 QBs....
With the money they signed Weaver for, they could have just as easily taken mario....... put Babin @ RDE, & still rotate Peek. If you've got those three guys trying to get to your QB, you'll surely make the offense one-dimensional. You then stack up on the run...... But that's not their plan...... I don't see any likely Trade down Scenarios......
We'll take Reggie.
gwallaia said:
Texans_Chick said:
Let's get back to this.......
so.........
who would you chose??