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Brooks Reed
- Thread starter BSofA04
- Start date
Well, I always knew he could do it but if he can really keep it up against top class O-lines. He's really going to give Rick Smith something to think about in the offseason.
GP
Go Texans!
This is beginning to beg the question, the old chicken and egg story:
Is it the player or the coordinator?
Because supposedly we were DOOMED when Mario Williams got hurt andis out for the year................
I was saying back in the preseason that IF Wade Phillips is who we historically know him to be (a builder of good defenses) and IF he is given some goods to work with here, then Mario Williams or no Mario Williams we should see a good defense this year.
Let's also remember that we're talking about the Browns here. Let's see what happens against a good passing team like the Bengals. Anybody else watching this Bengals-Titans game right now? Dude, the Bengals are no joke. Dalton is making great decisions all game long. His accuracy is top notch. The passing plays are down-the-field and effective.
Jeff Triplett's bunch is reff'ing this game and they are calling a penalty on every other play. Isn't this bunch the most penalizing crew out there? It's incredible. Every other play there is holding or a personal foul or some such.
Is it the player or the coordinator?
Because supposedly we were DOOMED when Mario Williams got hurt andis out for the year................
I was saying back in the preseason that IF Wade Phillips is who we historically know him to be (a builder of good defenses) and IF he is given some goods to work with here, then Mario Williams or no Mario Williams we should see a good defense this year.
Let's also remember that we're talking about the Browns here. Let's see what happens against a good passing team like the Bengals. Anybody else watching this Bengals-Titans game right now? Dude, the Bengals are no joke. Dalton is making great decisions all game long. His accuracy is top notch. The passing plays are down-the-field and effective.
Jeff Triplett's bunch is reff'ing this game and they are calling a penalty on every other play. Isn't this bunch the most penalizing crew out there? It's incredible. Every other play there is holding or a personal foul or some such.
Brooks is growing into his role. Two sacks against any NFL team is a milestone.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
He's been nothing short of bad ass.
Scooter
Funky
i think he is what he is. a solid rookie OLB in an ideal system with great play around him and extremely little attention from opposing offenses. the same knocks applied to mario beating tightends (he's supposed to make the play) need to be applied to unblocked reed (he's supposed to make the play). i dont mean to diminish what he's done, because the results are there, but he's got plenty of work to do. i think he'll only get better, but i'm hesitant to heap on too much praise.
Yankee_In_TX
Dance Lindsay!
Fixed it for you.
stingray
Hall of Fame
Not saying he isn't.. Just saying and asking how he will perform in important games. Hopefully he will perform great.
You can't fix what was never broken.
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
I know some people are going to want to turn this into another Brooks vs. Mario question but with the way hes playing right now I would love to see them on the field starting together. Reed has that natural pass rush instinct and edge speed for the position. Barwin is playing some excellent football as well but Reed is really killing it. Man, I love watching our defense.
I'm not going to over-praise the man, I'm just giving him props for being an impact player on a damn good defense. That's right, I said it, a damn good defense.
I agree with Scooter and others here that he needs work, but the tools/motor are there for a solid OLB in our system. Still a work in progress, but the man has a chance to break the all-time rookie sack record (5.5...pathetic but that's another bitching session) without starting 25% of the season.
Cush. Captain Meco. Connor. Reed. Not a bad LB group!
I agree with Scooter and others here that he needs work, but the tools/motor are there for a solid OLB in our system. Still a work in progress, but the man has a chance to break the all-time rookie sack record (5.5...pathetic but that's another bitching session) without starting 25% of the season.
Cush. Captain Meco. Connor. Reed. Not a bad LB group!
Scooter
Funky
couldnt agree more, especially about the motor. he's got strong moves and is a 60 minute worker, reed has a ton of upside especially in this system. wade has turned futility into a top defense with effort - leaning on guys like reed, cushing, watt, manning, smith - hustle never give up types. reed isnt a major pass rusher yet though and has some work to do to be a more complete linebacker. he may become one, but right now he's taking advantage of being an afterthought for offenses. i hate that i sound like i'm knocking the guy, because like i said the results are there and that's all that matters.
and you might want to change it to Meco and Captain Cush.
Yankee_In_TX
Dance Lindsay!
Anyone who wants Brooks instead of Mario is silly. BUT, it comes down to what will Mario's contract demands be?
Brooks has proven and can start and play well. He has issues, which hopefully can improve with experience and coaching.
Scooter
Funky
i agreed with this before the trade deadline. we absolutely cant let that much talent leave without compensation though ... possibly with a franchise and trade? my guess is we give mario and foster their long term deals at the expense of a familiar name or two.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
LMAO...the same posters who are trying to downplay Brooks are the same posters who go out of their way to praise whatever Mario Williams does, acted like he was the be all end all of this defense, and are the same posters who said we'd be screwed when he went out. Things are getting WAY too predictable around here.
Brooks Reed doesn't just have the skills/tools to be a solid OLBer in this defense...he has the skills to be a STAR in this defense. He's ALREADY above a "solid OLBer" in this system and he'll only continue to improve from here on out.
I also find it funny that some people are even going as far to excuse some of his production to "being unblocked"...yet you didn't hear much when Mario was isolated against Dallas Clark. It's the same system..Wade does a great job at getting his defenders the most favorable match ups. He did it with Mario and now he's doing it with Brooks.
Brooks Reed is a legit playmaker, how can you call a rook who's averaging a sack a start anything other than a legit playmaker? Face it, we hit gold in the second round, we haven't skipped a beat without Mario Williams (heck, we've actually improved in run defense), and Reed should've went MUCH higher in the draft. If he was able to start since day 1, we could be talking about a DROY candidate here.
Brooks Reed doesn't just have the skills/tools to be a solid OLBer in this defense...he has the skills to be a STAR in this defense. He's ALREADY above a "solid OLBer" in this system and he'll only continue to improve from here on out.
I also find it funny that some people are even going as far to excuse some of his production to "being unblocked"...yet you didn't hear much when Mario was isolated against Dallas Clark. It's the same system..Wade does a great job at getting his defenders the most favorable match ups. He did it with Mario and now he's doing it with Brooks.
Brooks Reed is a legit playmaker, how can you call a rook who's averaging a sack a start anything other than a legit playmaker? Face it, we hit gold in the second round, we haven't skipped a beat without Mario Williams (heck, we've actually improved in run defense), and Reed should've went MUCH higher in the draft. If he was able to start since day 1, we could be talking about a DROY candidate here.
GP
Go Texans!
Yeah, well...it came at the cost of being labeled a Mario hater.
I'll tell you guys what I "hate." I hate anything that isn't what's best for the Texans. I have no favorite Texans players; in my eyes they ALL row the boat or they ALL stand dead in the water.
My only gripe about Mario is the situation with his upcoming new contract, and what that means for the TEAM as a whole. Because I'm in favor of spreading the love and making sure we are always able to field the best t-e-a-m we can, not getting caught up in hamstringing ourselves (pardon the expression) with superstar contracts that box us in.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
You and me both brother.
You know what I have to say to those people... We aren't "Mario haters", they're overall "team haters". They have to knock everyone on the team down (Antonio Smith anyone) in order to elevate "their guy" even higher. They can't give any props when it's truly due to other players, if it might make their "guy" look less significant.
rickyb
Scarlet is hot.
I was at a happy hour in Austin, watching the 2011 NFL Draft, and as the Texans' 2nd round pick (the 1st one) approached, I leaned over to my buddy and said, "If Brooks Reed is still on the board, we should grab that guy and not think twice." I exploded when the pick was announced. Excited then, and still excited. This linebacking core of ours is muy synergistic, animalistic, pugilistic. Me likey.
Scooter
Funky
step back and see the comparison. mario is degraded for beating a tightend (you're selectively ignoring how much was said). reed is degraded for going unblocked. reed isnt commanding a tightend motioning to his side. he doesnt have a back doubling protection. reed is a rookie going relatively unnoticed by the offense and doing his job when the opportunity provides itsself - very commendable. let's not make it out to say he's dominating the block and beating double teams. he's missed his share of lane assignments and is heavily reliant on others to free him up where as mario helps draw attention away from others while still producing all-pro results. to compare the two while watching the games is asinine. brooks has been great for a rookie, but as someone hoping mario would be traded, reed is miles away from being in mario's territory.
my record makes me safe from being lumped into "mario hater" or "mario fan".
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
im not going to get into it since we're obviously seeing two completely different things. i have no agenda in a brooks reed/mario debate. like you, i just want the best players out there to make our team as good as possible.
like i said earlier, reed is doing well for a rookie but imo he hasnt shown much to be a star on this defence. ya mario had the odd isolation on clark but hes beaten plenty of tackles and double teams too. reed hasnt shown that much. cushing is obviously the star of this D and the obv talent+scheme= star (btw remember a couple wks back when you told me that to compare '11 cush to '09 cush was laughable).
brooks might be a star down the road but he hasnt been so far and more than likely wont be for another yr or 2 at the earliest
stingray
Hall of Fame
Chill dude.. Amobi Okoye had four sacks in his first four starts.
The Cush
Rookie
That was actually dalemurphy's favorite argument, Mario only beats TE's and patchwork O-lines. He kept harping on that and the fact that Mario isn't elite in coverage as to why he is such an underachiver
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
If anything, I can see bringing Mario back & bumping Connor further down the depth chart.......... if Brooks keeps it up.
Scooter
Funky
yup yup. i like the mix of mario and reed, with connor backing up both.
JimBaker488
Waterboy
But if he's franchised isn't that then like 20M guaranteed ? That would be 1/6 or 1/7 of our entire cap wouldn't it ?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Big props to Brooks for creating pressure and getting some sacks! He's really filling in well for one of the league's best, especially for only being a rookie.
Now getting that out of the way... the guy, in my eyes, is still raw. He's beating people by pure speed. But if an OL gets their hands on him, I haven't seen him have the ability to shed the block. Right now, he's sorta a one-trick pony when it comes to rushing the passer.
But I'm really rooting for the guy to develop his rush moves. He needs to learn how to beat blocks in order to bring pressure and create havoc on every play. He needs to draw the protection's attention. Once he can do this, then we can start talking about the possibility of not bringing Mario back next season.
Now getting that out of the way... the guy, in my eyes, is still raw. He's beating people by pure speed. But if an OL gets their hands on him, I haven't seen him have the ability to shed the block. Right now, he's sorta a one-trick pony when it comes to rushing the passer.
But I'm really rooting for the guy to develop his rush moves. He needs to learn how to beat blocks in order to bring pressure and create havoc on every play. He needs to draw the protection's attention. Once he can do this, then we can start talking about the possibility of not bringing Mario back next season.
Scooter
Funky
that's why i'm expecting him to return with a more cap friendly long term deal. if we were to let him go i'd assume we'd have some certainty of his trade options before making any tags.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Howdy!
Mario going away after this season doesn't have anything to do with underachieving... He simply isn't a fit for a 3-4 OLB... He's a gifted player and Wade used him successfully. However, as is evidenced by Reed's production, we don't need a $12 million man in that position. Mario could be a very good to great LDE in a 4-3 for someone. I can't see us outbidding a team like that. I'll wish him well, though. Give me Lamar Woodley if we decide to spend money at OLB this off-season.
Trading Mario doesn't make us a better team.
To me, Mario is capable of being to the defense what Andre is to the offense. Maybe not exactly as great as dre but I think his presence puts us over the top and makes the unit that much better.
Offense has still put up points in dre's absence but I don't think you trade Andre because other receivers/te's step up and play well. Players as physically gifted as Mario and dre don't grow on trees.
Reed has been getting better and should continue to, but he is no Mario.
To me, Mario is capable of being to the defense what Andre is to the offense. Maybe not exactly as great as dre but I think his presence puts us over the top and makes the unit that much better.
Offense has still put up points in dre's absence but I don't think you trade Andre because other receivers/te's step up and play well. Players as physically gifted as Mario and dre don't grow on trees.
Reed has been getting better and should continue to, but he is no Mario.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
1 + 1 = 2lol... Does brooks reed remotely look anything like amobi okoye?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Obviously, since you don't value Mario very much, this make alot of sense to you. To us that highly value him, we don't think getting rid of him will make us better.
You can make the same argument about Foster since Tate is playing so well. I'm surprised people aren't suggesting we trade or do not re-sign Foster.
You must be crazy not to resign Foster! Pay the man when hes done well unlike guys named Chris Johnson and Peyton Hillis. Complain and then not perform well on the field. Praise Foster for just playing hard and not whinning. Pay him Rick lol
Foster is about to get PAID! I'm thinking near highest paid RB in the league especially if he can be top 3 in rushing.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
I don't think when the FO look at this situation with Mario they are thinking so black and white about either re-signing him or letting him go.
I think they will try to keep him and offer him what they feel he's worth to the team.
I think the emergence of Brooks Reed probably knocks a couple of million $ per year off Mario's value to this team, but wouldn't think for a second that they aren't going to make him an offer and for good money too.
Demarcus Ware is earning around $13M a year for the Cowboys, Mario is down for $13.8M. That is a lot against the cap, but then again the guy was beasting it before he went down.
I also somewhat cautiously await the rookie wall for JJ Watt and Brooks Reed, especially if we go deep in the playoffs. Amobi Okoye hit the rookie wall and never recovered as I remember so there is a note of caution to anyone suddenly writing Mario off.
I think they will try to keep him and offer him what they feel he's worth to the team.
I think the emergence of Brooks Reed probably knocks a couple of million $ per year off Mario's value to this team, but wouldn't think for a second that they aren't going to make him an offer and for good money too.
Demarcus Ware is earning around $13M a year for the Cowboys, Mario is down for $13.8M. That is a lot against the cap, but then again the guy was beasting it before he went down.
I also somewhat cautiously await the rookie wall for JJ Watt and Brooks Reed, especially if we go deep in the playoffs. Amobi Okoye hit the rookie wall and never recovered as I remember so there is a note of caution to anyone suddenly writing Mario off.
you and me both brother.
You know what i have to say to those people... We aren't "mario haters", they're overall "team haters". They have to knock everyone on the team down (antonio smith anyone) in order to elevate "their guy" even higher. They can't give any props when it's truly due to other players, if it might make their "guy" look less significant.
amen!!!!!
TexanBacker93
Veteran
How is he with a smoker?
TexanBacker93
Veteran
I think, regardless of his demands, we keep Mario next year. If the demands are such that the team finds it hard to keep Mario and Foster then you slap that franchise tag on Mario and see what happens. There will be a way to keep both of them. Reed, Barwin, and Mario makes for a great rotation.
I think we will be able to sign foster and Mario. I can't remember the last time a team let someone of mario's caliber walk because they couldn't afford him. That's not going to happen. Someone will restructure, cap moves will be made, he will be signed IMO.
As far as filling other holes. . .???
What gaping holes are you looking to fill in free agency that we can't attempt to fill in the draft?
Brooks reed, Mario, and barwin in a healthy rotation makes me excited.