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Babin's transition to DE going well

Texans34Life

Texans34Life

I BLEED TEXANS!
Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:22:33 -0700

Megan Manfull, writing for the Sporting News, reports Houston Texans DE Jason Babin continues to impress the coaching staff as he makes his transition from linebacker to defensive end. Babin has spent the majority of the past few weeks with the first team, leaving DE Antwan Peek to work with the second team. Babin lacks height, but the coaches expect him to use his quickness to his advantage.
 
Uh oh, Babin might actually turn into something special. Good for him. I hope he turns into one of those DEs to fear throughout the league. Simply because I want the best out of every player, and he gets so much grief around here.
 
Great to read, ever since I found out we were switching to the 4-3 I have been saying that IMO Babin would make the better overall DE than Peek. Now where does that leave Weaver? Weaver, Payne, TJ, and Robaire at DT and Babin, Williams, Peek and Weaver at DE? With the guys we have able to line up in the front 4 I see a LOT of different ways to line the guys up. Nothing wrong with versatility though.
 
Texans86 said:
Uh oh, Babin might actually turn into something special. Good for him. I hope he turns into one of those DEs to fear throughout the league. Simply because I want the best out of every player, and he gets so much grief around here.
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Then we'll have TWO DE's for the league to fear...QB's better watch out :crutch:
 
Here is the link to the Sporting News article: Texans Team Report

PERSONNEL ANALYSIS: DE Jason Babin continues to impress the coaching staff with his transition to end. Babin has spent the majority of the past few weeks with the first team, leaving Antwan Peek to work with the second team. Babin is technically sound at end, and is motivated to earn playing time. Babin (6-2, 259) lacks height, but the coaches expect to use his quickness to his advantage. .
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.

Lots of other good stuff in the article though it is hard to tell how much of it is based on actual knowledge (talking to coaches) versus talking out of the behind (making stuff up based on generalities).
 
[[Gary Kubiak]] said:
He is still 259... peek will replace him eventually. Babin CANT play at that weight . he needs to be >270 be dominant.

You cant always use spin moves and quickness to beat linemen. You have to engage them and you need power for that.

In the pictures, he looks 270. Those figures must be wrong.......
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Last I heard Babin was upto 271...
 
Wow. That is good news. I was concerned about him since he was drafted as a tweener. It'll be great if he can transition back to end.

By the way - where's the article?
 
[[Gary Kubiak]] said:
Babin plays the run twice as good as Peek.
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This brings something to mind I had forgotten about. I always wondered why teams didn't take more advantage of Indy's Freeney and the way he always charges up field at high speed (like Peek's main tendency). It turns out that their defense really stepped up once the linebackers covered his rushes upfield an didn't allow teams to take advantage of going behind Freeney in the area he vacated in his rather predictable speed rush.

As much as we see improvement in individual players, I hope our schemes improve as well - play to our strengths and cover our weaknesses.
 
[[Gary Kubiak]] said:
He is still 259... peek will replace him eventually. Babin CANT play at that weight . he needs to be >270 be dominant.

You cant always use spin moves and quickness to beat linemen. You have to engage them and you need power for that.

In the pictures, he looks 270. Those figures must be wrong.......
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Full Name: Robert Nathan Mathis
Born: February 26, 1981
Atlanta, GA
Height: 6-2
Weight: 235 lbs.

Full Name: John Abraham
Born: May 6, 1978
Timmonsville, SC
Height: 6-4
Weight: 258 lbs.

Full Name: Muhammed-Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila
Born: September 24, 1977
Los Angeles, CA
Height: 6-4
Weight: 250 lbs.

Full Name: Adewale Ogunleye
Born: August 9, 1977
Brooklyn, NY
Height: 6-4
Weight: 260 lbs.

Full Name: Terrell Raynonn Suggs
Born: October 11, 1982
Minneapolis, MN
Height: 6-3
Weight: 260 lbs.

Full Name: Jason Paul Taylor
Born: September 1, 1974
Pittsburgh, PA
Height: 6-6
Weight: 255 lbs.

Those are all at or under Babin's weight. And not even Freeney (268) hits this magical 270 you speak of. As a matter of fact the only dominant DE in the league over 270 is Peppers, and he is 6'7", a lot that weight is attributed directly to how tall he is, not how muscular. I wouldn't be going out on a limb here to say the key is to specifically not be above 270. Anyways 259 to 270 is the difference of 11 pounds, in other words, at that weight, about 3% more body mass....not exactly earth shattering. And the whole weight equals power idea is flat out wrong. Its all relative to height and him being only 6'2"....well he isn't going to get much above 260 without becoming ridiculous looking. At only 6'2" he is on the rather large side you could say. I guess the best example is basketball players....you think Tracy Mcgrady is as strong as Mathis? They both weigh around the same, the only difference being about 6 inches in height. Strength in power doesn't just lie in weight alone....it lies in the ratio of height to weight.
 
[[Gary Kubiak]] said:
He is still 259... peek will replace him eventually. Babin CANT play at that weight . he needs to be >270 be dominant.

You cant always use spin moves and quickness to beat linemen. You have to engage them and you need power for that.

In the pictures, he looks 270. Those figures must be wrong.......
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On the Texans roster Babin is listed as 6'2", 259 lbs, and Peek is listed as 6'3", 250 lbs. I don't understand why a lot of people keep saying Babin is too small and yet say nothing of Peek's size. One inch taller and 9 lbs lighter doesn't exactly fit your dominant (>270) mold. And yes, I do realize these are weights from last year and both have gained some pounds.

As far as the spin moves and quickness to beat linemen, isn't that what Peek uses all or most of the time? Are you saying that Peek is more powerful at a lighter weight that Babin?

Don't mean to :stirpot: , just wondering.
 
Insideop said:
On the Texans roster Babin is listed as 6'2", 259 lbs, and Peek is listed as 6'3", 250 lbs. I don't understand why a lot of people keep saying Babin is too small and yet say nothing of Peek's size. One inch taller and 9 lbs lighter doesn't exactly fit your dominant (>270) mold. And yes, I do realize these are weights from last year and both have gained some pounds.

As far as the spin moves and quickness to beat linemen, isn't that what Peek uses all or most of the time? Are you saying that Peek is more powerful at a lighter weight that Babin?

Don't mean to :stirpot: , just wondering.
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The weights listed on the roster are old. Babs is in the 270 range now and Peek to me almost looks like a defensive lineman...
 
If Babin gets too heavy, he will lose quickness. Not a good argument imo. I'm very happy to see that the transition is going well. Maybe we will have a payoff after all. :whip:
 
Porky said:
Maybe we will have a payoff after all. :whip:
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The guy I'm pulling most of all for on the team is Bennie J because of all he's gone thru with his 3 consecutive years of season-ending injury's, and as
a second round pick we've got a big investment in him.
But next in line are Babin, TJ, and P-Burnt. We traded 2 first day picks for
P-Burnt and the other 2 guys are of course direct first round picks, also by the Casserly-Capers regime.
To not have our young, high-round picks develope successfully and make a contribution to the team is a very negative thing and about the most discouraging development for the long-term prospects of the team.
Word is P-Burnt is working hard, so there's still hope that he can help us.
 
Who ever asked about Weaver..

On the radio yesterday they said they've been playing the d-line like this

DE-Babin
DT-Weaver
DT-Payne
DE-Super Mario :fireball:

Not sure about sides or anything like that..but those are those 4 getting the first team reps
 
Look the Texans made the trade for Babin, because if they would not, he would have been selected by another team. Babin was good in college and he has the tools to excel in the NFL and he possesed the potential to dominate as a linebacker in the 3-4 defense. (Things didn't work out in the 3-4 system the Texans had, we all know that, but the potential he had is still there, those physical skills and abilities are still there; he isn't old enough yet to start losing his athletic talent).

Now, I read what ya'll have written about him taking a more prominent position with the First TEAM, and it tells me that he is utilizing his talent to get him the extra reps and current standing with the team. THAT'S GOOD!!!!

If Babin can develop and with :fireball: breathing fire into the opposing team :bowser: (Quarterback), then our ends appear to be TALENTED!! And a good recipe is brewing for sack power :stirpot: . And that article on the Defensive Line coach was real interesting!!

Sacks by our DL have been rare in the Texans history!!! Now it's time to sack that history, and get ready for a future full of sacks on opposing team quarterbacks!!! David Carr on his back was no fun to watch.

GO BABIN, SOLIDIFY YOU SIDE!!!


And Peek, don't you dare slack off, fight and get better than Babin!!!! Challenge Babin!!! Because as it seems, Babin is a legit starter.
 
I'm on record long term not being a big fan of Peeks game as he is a huge liability against the run and doesn't seem to protect the edge well at all. I think just saying Babin 'has to be' at this weight or that to be any good at end is silly. May the best man win.
 
Vinny said:
I'm on record long term not being a big fan of Peeks game as he is a huge liability against the run and doesn't seem to protect the edge well at all. I think just saying Babin 'has to be' at this weight or that to be any good at end is silly. May the best man win.
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Agreed...its not boxing, and you dont have to step on the scale before you step onto the field. He can be 150 pounds in my book, if he is the best then he is the best.
 
Runner said:
This brings something to mind I had forgotten about. I always wondered why teams didn't take more advantage of Indy's Freeney and the way he always charges up field at high speed (like Peek's main tendency). It turns out that their defense really stepped up once the linebackers covered his rushes upfield an didn't allow teams to take advantage of going behind Freeney in the area he vacated in his rather predictable speed rush.

As much as we see improvement in individual players, I hope our schemes improve as well - play to our strengths and cover our weaknesses.
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Excellent point. I don't see anything in this coaching staff that says they won't do exactly that.
 
I always thought NFL teams wanted different types of DE's. 2 for the runners and grinders like Pitt and 2 for the tossers like Indy. Now we got em and and can shuffle them in at particular points in the game. So why say 1 is better than the other? They all have there strenghts and weaknesses IMHO.
 
i just remember seeing babin in his first game as a rookie and shutting down LT twice with good open field tackles when they were one on one.
 
TexansTrueFan said:
i just remember seeing babin in his first game as a rookie and shutting down LT twice with good open field tackles when they were one on one.
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later that game he gave him a pretty good shot down the field out of bounce too. not a negative for me (even though he got a penalty) since i was happy he had the speed to meet him that far down the field and hit him.
 
[[Gary Kubiak]] said:
Nah, I know there are lots of DE who are less that Babs weight, but the way I see it babin needs to be at higher weight to consistently put pressure on the QB.

IMHO he needs that extra "ummppphhhh" to shed blockers. Just me. The way I see it once he gets contained, he lacks the size to get out of it.
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Size doesn't get you out of anything.....you obviously aren't one to be swayed by facts. Every dominant DE in the league is under Babin's weight AND taller....yet you think for some reason Babin is a special case. Thats just being hard-headed.
 
Is it just me or did there seem to be a large support group for Peek in another thread where everyone was dogging on Babin? Why can't people make up their minds? I for the record, have always been against Peek...and seperatly, have always been for Babin. My stance hasn't changed, just like Vinny's and some others, but it just seems like most posters change their view with every new article. :twocents:
 
Vinny said:
I'm on record long term not being a big fan of Peeks game as he is a huge liability against the run and doesn't seem to protect the edge well at all. I think just saying Babin 'has to be' at this weight or that to be any good at end is silly. May the best man win.
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I agree with that assessment. I have been tossing around an idea in my somewhat empty cranium over the last few weeks. Could Peek play the Strongside OLB in a 4-3 Defense? I am just wondering if that spot may ultimately be his best position in the pros. Vinny has a lot of knowledge in this area, so I am especially seeking his opinion, but feel free to toss in your own.
 
Vinny said:
Peek has 9 career sacks and 64 tackles in 40 games.

Babin has 8 career sacks and 75 tackles in 28 games. Something to think about.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492886
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396057
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How many of these games did each player start? Peek didn't start until last year, so even though he gets game credit he probably didn't see many snaps.:twocents:

I don't care for either player much, but I would imagine Babin saw more snaps in the last two years.
 
TexansTrueFan said:
i just remember seeing babin in his first game as a rookie and shutting down LT twice with good open field tackles when they were one on one.
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Exactly. I remember getting totally psyched up when I watched that.
 
TexansTrueFan said:
i just remember seeing babin in his first game as a rookie and shutting down LT twice with good open field tackles when they were one on one.
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That is when I became a Babin fan, I raved on here about the open field tackle on LT in his first game, and I have been a fan of his ever since.
 
Most people dont understand that Babin was a DE in college, and we moved him to a unfamiliar place.. to LB... Now that he is back to his natural place, he will be good at it I bet.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Lots of other good stuff in the article though it is hard to tell how much of it is based on actual knowledge (talking to coaches) versus talking out of the behind (making stuff up based on generalities).
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Don't be hating on your girl!!!! I thought it was you and Meagen taking on the fat old men of the sports journalism world?
 
ccdude730 said:
later that game he gave him a pretty good shot down the field out of bounce too. not a negative for me (even though he got a penalty) since i was happy he had the speed to meet him that far down the field and hit him.
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yeah, he got a penalty for that play but it showed his speed, coming all the way down the field.yeeeeeah it was a good debut.
 
wags said:
How many of these games did each player start? Peek didn't start until last year, so even though he gets game credit he probably didn't see many snaps.:twocents:

I don't care for either player much, but I would imagine Babin saw more snaps in the last two years.
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Yes, but Peek came in on the more Pass-oriented downs, Babin played most of the time, (Before his breif injury).
Besides, some of the people on this forum put too much thought into our starting D-Line, considering our defensive scheme will rely on a heavy line rotation to keep our guys fresh means that most of the players will get a shot to smack the opposing QB anyway. In all of these DL threads I don't really see much mention of Kalu.... any word or thoughts people?
 
edo783 said:
Geezzz, Vinny, there ya good confusing the Peek supporters with facts. Never have understood why some folks think he walks on water. Seems like a pretty big liability to me. Makes one good play and then does two stupid things.
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Peek supporters like Peek because he plays with a ton of emotion. The frustrating thing is those "stupid" things you talk about. Those are symptoms of immaturity. When players who have been susceptible to that improve, it's usually because a coach who holds players accountable made a difference for that player. That said, I think we need to withhold judgement on Peek and see what this staff can do. There will be a difference in the way he's managed....I'm confident that will help him. The first time he makes a late hit because he's mad about a previous play, Kubes will bench him.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
Why can't people make up their minds? I for the record, have always been against Peek...and seperatly, have always been for Babin. My stance hasn't changed, just like Vinny's and some others, but it just seems like most posters change their view with every new article.
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Sure, a person changing their mind with every article is a little extreme. Then again, so is making up your mind once and never changing it even in the face of new evidence.

I'd rather see thoughtful consideration of new information rather than just spinning it in a way so that a person doesn't have to go to effort of thinking and perhaps even admitting they were wrong.
 
wags said:
How many of these games did each player start? Peek didn't start until last year, so even though he gets game credit he probably didn't see many snaps.:twocents:

I don't care for either player much, but I would imagine Babin saw more snaps in the last two years.
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This is what came to my mind as well. On the other hand Babin had a torn labrum during the 2005-2006 season, so maybe having to miss games and playing injured for a season even the scales. You could also argue Peek's sack totals are inflated because most of his snaps two seasons ago were taken as a situational pass rusher whose only goal was to get the quarterback on passing downs. Hardly an empirical debate either way.

I'll throw my support in for Babin at this point. They were both undersized DE's in college; Peek's more explosive but Babin had a more prolific college career. I think Babin makes a more conscientious defender who's less likely to be a liability on running plays. But then again whoever makes plays when the season starts is going to get my support.
 
blockhead83 said:
This is what came to my mind as well. On the other hand Babin had a torn labrum during the 2005-2006 season, so maybe having to miss games and playing injured for a season even the scales. You could also argue Peek's sack totals are inflated because most of his snaps two seasons ago were taken as a situational pass rusher whose only goal was to get the quarterback on passing downs. Hardly an empirical debate either way.

I'll throw my support in for Babin at this point. They were both undersized DE's in college; Peek's more explosive but Babin had a more prolific college career. I think Babin makes a more conscientious defender who's less likely to be a liability on running plays. But then again whoever makes plays when the season starts is going to get my support.
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I think babin will start on most downs and peek will come in on situational downs. That would be the best use of both their unique skills. but who knows what the coach has plans for.
 
im all for peek although i like babin but not as much as peek.....

peek is those types of players that are 10% technique but 90% desire to hit someone....and i like it hahahaha we need someone on the D to strike fear into the opposition and he can be that player
 
TK_Gamer said:
I think babin will start on most downs and peek will come in on situational downs. That would be the best use of both their unique skills. but who knows what the coach has plans for.
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I think we're going to see quite a bit of this, and not just involving Peek and Babin. Our defensive line is loaded with players who haven't yet proven themselves to be full-time starters, and to maximize their abilities I'm expecting to see a healthly rotation going on depending on the circumstances. If we are playing for the run, Mario can take LE, Payne and Smith at DT, and Weaver at RE. A normal set might be Babin at LE, Payne and Weaver at DT, and Mario at RE. A passing situation might warrant Peek at LE, Mario and Weaver at DT, and Babin at RE. Pepper in a little N.D. Kalu at end, TJ at DT, and others and you have quite a few options and plenty of bodies to keep everyone fresh or provide depth if needed. I remember Kubiak saying after the draft that when he arrived here we didn't have any clear areas of strength, but after the draft he could say that our defensive line was a strength. I agree with that....if they make good use of the talent at their disposal hopefully we'll see what looks good on paper produce some of that good stuff on the field....
 
Was just looking over the roster for a post on a different thread, and sorted by position. According to the Texans, we have one DT in Seth Payne, and everyone else is considered a DE. I though this interesting. Obviously, Robaire, TJ and Wever will play inside, but I thought it interesting.
 
blockhead83 said:
I think we're going to see quite a bit of this, and not just involving Peek and Babin. Our defensive line is loaded with players who haven't yet proven themselves to be full-time starters, and to maximize their abilities I'm expecting to see a healthly rotation going on depending on the circumstances. If we are playing for the run, Mario can take LE, Payne and Smith at DT, and Weaver at RE. A normal set might be Babin at LE, Payne and Weaver at DT, and Mario at RE. A passing situation might warrant Peek at LE, Mario and Weaver at DT, and Babin at RE. Pepper in a little N.D. Kalu at end, TJ at DT, and others and you have quite a few options and plenty of bodies to keep everyone fresh or provide depth if needed. I remember Kubiak saying after the draft that when he arrived here we didn't have any clear areas of strength, but after the draft he could say that our defensive line was a strength. I agree with that....if they make good use of the talent at their disposal hopefully we'll see what looks good on paper produce some of that good stuff on the field....
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Pepper in Alfred Malone also, he played well for us at the end of last season and is a young talent.
 
Brandon420tx said:
Pepper in Alfred Malone also, he played well for us at the end of last season and is a young talent.
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Yea I agree, I remember noticing him in the pre-season last year wreaking some havoc and wondering if it was just because it was against lesser competition, but apparently he's impressed the coaches enough to earn himself a spot. I think a recent article actually said he was starting ahead of TJ right now....will be interesting to see if he can hold on to that spot...
 
I did not go threw all the post so I'm not sure if this has been brought up but if the Texans would not have picked Babin in the 1st he probably would have been picked in the 2nd round as a pass rushing DE . Its not like he was a 7th rounder and their hoping he can play .
 
Texans86 said:
Was just looking over the roster for a post on a different thread, and sorted by position. According to the Texans, we have one DT in Seth Payne, and everyone else is considered a DE. I though this interesting. Obviously, Robaire, TJ and Wever will play inside, but I thought it interesting.
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Probably a holdover from the 3-4 days that they haven't gotten around to updating yet.
 
I looked up Babin's combine numbers and his were a 34" vertical , a 10' broad jump with 28 reps of 225 lbs . That gives you 72 , 70 is the benchmark for explosiveness .
 
I really like babin alot, one if his problems has been shedding blockers, hopefully he can continue to work on that thru training camp and preseason, im sure having mario on the other side will help at least ensure 1 on 1 match ups, the rest is up to him
 
Babin looked really good at the end of last year.

Maybe it was because he was fresh, and playing against players that had played almost the whole season, but he looked good to me.

I like Peek rotating in, but I have always like Peek for special teams. He is easily the best special teams player on the team. He shines there to me.
 
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