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Are they listening to the fan? No Williams!

P

pittbull

Rookie
We all know that the city will be in uproar if the Texans do not select Vince Young, that is a given that is most likely not going to happen. But what if they pass, not only on Young, but Bush, who both project to be unreal NFL players and possibly future Hall of Famers. Young played in the Big 12, faced all adversity and lead his team to a national title! Bush, was the key element in leading his team to 2 national titles, and took home the Heisman trophy, playing against some of the best competition in the land, over the past 3 years. But what about Mario Williams......huh? A 1 year wonder who many project to be like Julius Peppers, but never dominated year after year like Julius, without the help of teammates. Williams, a combine wonder, has teammates that are going to get drafted relatively high on the same side of the ball, along with a fellow DE. This tends to take pressure off of the other great players in college, but not in the pros. Peppers never had this, and dominated the ACC. Williams never dominated games like Peppers and one can only think that he would not be the player Mel Kiper and rest of the draft guru's project him to be. If the Texans were to take Williams and both Young and Bush become everything they have already shown, McNair should just pull a Bud Adams and leave town! The fans will NEVER forgive him! As far as I remember, The Carolina Panthers got blown out by Seattle in the playoffs and Peppers couldn't score a TD! The Steelers did win a Super Bowl with two running backs, Bettis and fast Willie Parker. Could we imagine that it Houston? Davis and Bush in the backfield, thunder and lightning! Point blank, this is about winning titles and taking the best PROVEN players in the draft. Whether it would be Young, Leinart, Bush, Ferguson, or even AJ Hawk for this case, all have proven to be consistent over time and make things happen, as for the Williams, I don't think so. PLEASE GOD, Don't let the Texans take Williams!:brickwall
 
pittbull said:
We all know that the city will be in uproar if the Texans do not select Vince Young, that is a given that is most likely not going to happen. But what if they pass, not only on Young, but Bush, who both project to be unreal NFL players and possibly future Hall of Famers. Young played in the Big 12, faced all adversity and lead his team to a national title! Bush, was the key element in leading his team to 2 national titles, and took home the Heisman trophy, playing against some of the best competition in the land, over the past 3 years. But what about Mario Williams......huh? A 1 year wonder who many project to be like Julius Peppers, but never dominated year after year like Julius, without the help of teammates. Williams, a combine wonder, has teammates that are going to get drafted relatively high on the same side of the ball, along with a fellow DE. This tends to take pressure off of the other great players in college, but not in the pros. Peppers never had this, and dominated the ACC. Williams never dominated games like Peppers and one can only think that he would not be the player Mel Kiper and rest of the draft guru's project him to be. If the Texans were to take Williams and both Young and Bush become everything they have already shown, McNair should just pull a Bud Adams and leave town! The fans will NEVER forgive him! As far as I remember, The Carolina Panthers got blown out by Seattle in the playoffs and Peppers couldn't score a TD! The Steelers did win a Super Bowl with two running backs, Bettis and fast Willie Parker. Could we imagine that it Houston? Davis and Bush in the backfield, thunder and lightning! Point blank, this is about winning titles and taking the best PROVEN players in the draft. Whether it would be Young, Leinart, Bush, Ferguson, or even AJ Hawk for this case, all have proven to be consistent over time and make things happen, as for the Williams, I don't think so. PLEASE GOD, Don't let the Texans take Williams!:brickwall
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Overreact much? Carolina got peppers, and WENT to the playoffs. I'll take that over a spectacular 4-12 reggie season any day. If you dont like what they do.....there is a door ya know?
 
pittbull said:
We all know that the city will be in uproar if the Texans do not select Vince Young, that is a given that is most likely not going to happen. But what if they pass, not only on Young, but Bush, who both project to be unreal NFL players and possibly future Hall of Famers. Young played in the Big 12, faced all adversity and lead his team to a national title! Bush, was the key element in leading his team to 2 national titles, and took home the Heisman trophy, playing against some of the best competition in the land, over the past 3 years. But what about Mario Williams......huh? A 1 year wonder who many project to be like Julius Peppers, but never dominated year after year like Julius, without the help of teammates. Williams, a combine wonder, has teammates that are going to get drafted relatively high on the same side of the ball, along with a fellow DE. This tends to take pressure off of the other great players in college, but not in the pros. Peppers never had this, and dominated the ACC. Williams never dominated games like Peppers and one can only think that he would not be the player Mel Kiper and rest of the draft guru's project him to be. If the Texans were to take Williams and both Young and Bush become everything they have already shown, McNair should just pull a Bud Adams and leave town! The fans will NEVER forgive him! As far as I remember, The Carolina Panthers got blown out by Seattle in the playoffs and Peppers couldn't score a TD! The Steelers did win a Super Bowl with two running backs, Bettis and fast Willie Parker. Could we imagine that it Houston? Davis and Bush in the backfield, thunder and lightning! Point blank, this is about winning titles and taking the best PROVEN players in the draft. Whether it would be Young, Leinart, Bush, Ferguson, or even AJ Hawk for this case, all have proven to be consistent over time and make things happen, as for the Williams, I don't think so. PLEASE GOD, Don't let the Texans take Williams!:brickwall
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Well, I will probaly get crucified for this, but.....I agree.:twocents: Except the leaving town part...
 
"Defense wins championships"...that's the motto. I'm all for drafting Bush though, emphatically!

Trade down sounds good....but only if we had a competent GM that could draft. We don't have that so dowgrading the value we have at #1 overall...it's out of the question IMO. We don't need Casserly screwing up even more the 2005 season we had. We lost terribly and we need some definite compensation for it, and that would be a stud. PLEASE TEXANS don't trade down and give Casserly more shots at the trigger only to shoot blanks!
 
Uh, I live here in Houston, A season ticket holder, and would never abandon the Texans, but if McNair takes a DE, in a draft with Texas 'most prized athlete since Roger Clemens, forget about it, he may lose fans to Dallas or people may follow Vince where ever he goes. Lord forbid, Tennessee. If they take Bush, it eases the pain, as many think he will be a legend also, but Williams? No pazzaz, no city buzz, the fans will never forgive the franchie. They chose to keep Carr, which already has ignited a fire (Not myself included), didn't get a tackle in FA, and unless they get 4 extra picks for the #1, would be unreal!
 
This is a negotation ploy. They are going to take reggie and they don't want to pay too much for him. They want Reggie to tell his agent to get realstic real quick before he becomes the second pick and loses millions. The agent will fall in line and we will be chanting Reggie Reggie Reggie here very soon.
 
pittbull said:
We all know that the city will be in uproar if the Texans do not select Vince Young, that is a given that is most likely not going to happen. But what if they pass, not only on Young, but Bush, who both project to be unreal NFL players and possibly future Hall of Famers. Young played in the Big 12, faced all adversity and lead his team to a national title! Bush, was the key element in leading his team to 2 national titles, and took home the Heisman trophy, playing against some of the best competition in the land, over the past 3 years. But what about Mario Williams......huh? A 1 year wonder who many project to be like Julius Peppers, but never dominated year after year like Julius, without the help of teammates. Williams, a combine wonder, has teammates that are going to get drafted relatively high on the same side of the ball, along with a fellow DE. This tends to take pressure off of the other great players in college, but not in the pros. Peppers never had this, and dominated the ACC. Williams never dominated games like Peppers and one can only think that he would not be the player Mel Kiper and rest of the draft guru's project him to be. If the Texans were to take Williams and both Young and Bush become everything they have already shown, McNair should just pull a Bud Adams and leave town! The fans will NEVER forgive him! As far as I remember, The Carolina Panthers got blown out by Seattle in the playoffs and Peppers couldn't score a TD! The Steelers did win a Super Bowl with two running backs, Bettis and fast Willie Parker. Could we imagine that it Houston? Davis and Bush in the backfield, thunder and lightning! Point blank, this is about winning titles and taking the best PROVEN players in the draft. Whether it would be Young, Leinart, Bush, Ferguson, or even AJ Hawk for this case, all have proven to be consistent over time and make things happen, as for the Williams, I don't think so. PLEASE GOD, Don't let the Texans take Williams!:brickwall
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And if Bush can't get the corner (like in the Rose Bowl) and Young can't do in the pros what he did in college; but Williams gets 10+ plus sacks a year and becomes a annual all-pro. Half this MB will be saying "I told you the Texans should have taken him."

I personally am not worried, we are getting a player (whether it is Bush, Young, Williams, Ferguson or Hawk) that is going to help this team for years to come, and that excites me.:yahoo:
 
pittbull said:
We all know that the city will be in uproar if the Texans do not select Vince Young, that is a given that is most likely not going to happen. But what if they pass, not only on Young, but Bush, who both project to be unreal NFL players and possibly future Hall of Famers. Williams never dominated games like Peppers and one can only think that he would not be the player Mel Kiper and rest of the draft guru's project him to be. !:brickwall
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So the projections are correct when it comes to Bush and/or Young, but we shouldn't listen to them concerning Williams?


pittbull said:
If the Texans were to take Williams and both Young and Bush become everything they have already shown, McNair should just pull a Bud Adams and leave town! The fans will NEVER forgive him! !:brickwall
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If the Texans take Williams and he helps our defense lead us to the playoffs and the Super Bowl while Bush and/or Young become good NFL players who never quite make it to the next level.....how will the fans react then?


pittbull said:
As far as I remember, The Carolina Panthers got blown out by Seattle in the playoffs and Peppers couldn't score a TD! The Steelers did win a Super Bowl with two running backs, Bettis and fast Willie Parker. Could we imagine that it Houston? Davis and Bush in the backfield, thunder and lightning! !:brickwall
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How many other Super Bowl winners had a shared backfield? 2005 Patriots-Dillon; 2004 Patriots-A Smith; 2003 Buccaneers-Pittman; 2002 Patriots-A Smith; 2001 Ravens-Lewis; 2000 Rams-Faulk; 1999 Broncos-Davis; 1998 Broncos-Davis. The only possible RBBC from these teams is Tampa with Pittman/Alstott. History shows Super Bowl teams win it more often then not with one featured back.



pittbull said:
Point blank, this is about winning titles and taking the best PROVEN players in the draft. Whether it would be Young, Leinart, Bush, Ferguson, or even AJ Hawk for this case, all have proven to be consistent over time and make things happen, as for the Williams, I don't think so. PLEASE GOD, Don't let the Texans take Williams!:brickwall
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No players in the draft are proven at the NFL level. They are all something of a gamble. The history of the league is littered with skill position busts taken in the top few picks, more so then OL/DL busts. Besides, defense wins championships...just ask the Colts
 
The uproar will die down if we finish with a winning record.

I want Williams, personally, though I still like Bush for our team a little better.

Bush isn't particularly more proven than Williams; let's not act as if Bush didn't have an all world OL blocking for him and an offensive guru for a HC all these years ...
 
If the hype on Mario is true, then he fits a need better than VY or RB. We never have had a bona fide pass rusher.
 
pittbull said:
We all know that the city will be in uproar if the Texans do not select Vince Young, that is a given that is most likely not going to happen. But what if they pass, not only on Young, but Bush, who both project to be unreal NFL players and possibly future Hall of Famers. Young played in the Big 12, faced all adversity and lead his team to a national title! Bush, was the key element in leading his team to 2 national titles, and took home the Heisman trophy, playing against some of the best competition in the land, over the past 3 years. But what about Mario Williams......huh? A 1 year wonder who many project to be like Julius Peppers, but never dominated year after year like Julius, without the help of teammates. Williams, a combine wonder, has teammates that are going to get drafted relatively high on the same side of the ball, along with a fellow DE. This tends to take pressure off of the other great players in college, but not in the pros. Peppers never had this, and dominated the ACC. Williams never dominated games like Peppers and one can only think that he would not be the player Mel Kiper and rest of the draft guru's project him to be. If the Texans were to take Williams and both Young and Bush become everything they have already shown, McNair should just pull a Bud Adams and leave town! The fans will NEVER forgive him! As far as I remember, The Carolina Panthers got blown out by Seattle in the playoffs and Peppers couldn't score a TD! The Steelers did win a Super Bowl with two running backs, Bettis and fast Willie Parker. Could we imagine that it Houston? Davis and Bush in the backfield, thunder and lightning! Point blank, this is about winning titles and taking the best PROVEN players in the draft. Whether it would be Young, Leinart, Bush, Ferguson, or even AJ Hawk for this case, all have proven to be consistent over time and make things happen, as for the Williams, I don't think so. PLEASE GOD, Don't let the Texans take Williams!:brickwall
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Ok are we going to get any picks for taking Mario instead of Reggie...
If we do then I might agree on taking Mario.. if we are just going to use our #1 to take him then I say we take reggie instead.
 
This thread is ridiculous. I'd still go back and take Peppers over Carr if we could.

What is this nonsense about city buzz? Who gives a rats tail whether there is city buzz. Defensive players never create the kind of buzz that offensive players do.

If you need to leave town i have :twocents: on your greyhound ticket to nashville.
 
houston will draft bush, don't worry about it. the talks with williams are orchestrated to force bush's hand.

and williams isn't a one-year wonder at all. a lot of people had him as their #1 defensive player last year when he wasn't even eligible.
 
Runner said:
Are they listening to the fan?

I hope not.
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co-sign.

Not to mention you dubbing Young and Bush as FUTURE HOF's. Every one that gets a chance is a future hall of famer. John Randle....wasn't even drafted out of college. Johhny Unitas. They'll be a player in this draft that nobody gave a shot in the world who will turn out to be a HOF.

and if I hear Davis and Bush is thunder and lighting one more time....when they are the same dang sizeeee. obsurd to say the least.

Steelers won the super bowl with their DEFENSE.
 
Does anyone really want to root for a team that makes huge decisions based upon the whims of the fans? Do you realize how horrible an organization we would be? If they draft Williams and he's a bust, I'll be all over them for the mistake. But you better believe that I want the organization to act autonomously in pursuit of success. 95% of NFL fans have very little understanding of the game of football- especially at the NFL level.
 
There will be huge dissapointment in all camps with whatever decisions the organization makes with this no.1 pick. Wheter it's Bush or Williams or Young, there are going to be sections of fans who will be crushed. I always say that winning cures all problems but in this case I think if the Texans don't pick Bush, they have to absolutely be sure that they know what they are doing. Because if M.Williams (if he indeed is our guy, which I doubt) is our no.1 pick the Texans better make sure he's going to come in and produce at a very high maybe in near pro-bowl level for us. And if we don't win games it's going to turn out to be a disaster.
 
not for me.....I honestly am ready for whomever they choose. No kvetching, no protesting, no i told you so's.......they are gonna do whatever they think is best. In 3 years, they will still have done what they thought best. Even if another prospect tears it up, there is no guarantee he would have done that here. Live and let live....i just wanna watch football.
 
pittbull said:
Uh, I live here in Houston, A season ticket holder, and would never abandon the Texans, but if McNair takes a DE, in a draft with Texas 'most prized athlete since Roger Clemens, forget about it, he may lose fans to Dallas or people may follow Vince where ever he goes. Lord forbid, Tennessee. If they take Bush, it eases the pain, as many think he will be a legend also, but Williams? No pazzaz, no city buzz, the fans will never forgive the franchie. They chose to keep Carr, which already has ignited a fire (Not myself included), didn't get a tackle in FA, and unless they get 4 extra picks for the #1, would be unreal!
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#1 fans dont quit following their team because they dont agree with a draft pick.

#2 If "unflashy" picks, or even BAD picks, were a good reason to leave your team.. then the Jets would have no fans. Heck..alot of teams would have no fans.

#3 Mario Williams is a great talent, and would be a great pick for us.. though I would prefer to do it with a trade down.
 
Real fans want to see one thing. Wins.

Real fans will support whoever pulls on the Texans Jersey.

Real fans know that they generally no jack compared to those who make the decisions in regards to these things.

Then again real fans take an interest and are passionate about their teams future, so that does leave room for strong opinions.
 
killeentexan said:
How many other Super Bowl winners had a shared backfield? 2005 Patriots-Dillon; 2004 Patriots-A Smith; 2003 Buccaneers-Pittman; 2002 Patriots-A Smith; 2001 Ravens-Lewis; 2000 Rams-Faulk; 1999 Broncos-Davis; 1998 Broncos-Davis. The only possible RBBC from these teams is Tampa with Pittman/Alstott. History shows Super Bowl teams win it more often then not with one featured back.
Besides, defense wins championships...just ask the Colts
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The game keeps evolving over time as players get stronger and faster across the board. An Ex. would be back-up QB's recently 1st string QB's have not been as durable as historical QB's and as such Back-ups have become more important. History isn;t going to help determine the future course of Football. All teams keep more than one back. It is always good to have quality and quanity where available.

It actually takes good play on both sides of the ball and some luck to win championships. The Ravens are the only team I remember winning a championship primarily with Defense.
 
Peppers had Ryan Sims on that same UNC team with him, turns out Peppers was the one drawing the double teams. Williams could be the same way. I think a QB strip and fumble return is a bigger play than an 80 yard touchdown run any Sunday of the year...
 
pittbull said:
Uh, I live here in Houston, A season ticket holder, and would never abandon the Texans, but if McNair takes a DE, in a draft with Texas 'most prized athlete since Roger Clemens, forget about it, he may lose fans to Dallas or people may follow Vince where ever he goes. Lord forbid, Tennessee. If they take Bush, it eases the pain, as many think he will be a legend also, but Williams? No pazzaz, no city buzz, the fans will never forgive the franchie. They chose to keep Carr, which already has ignited a fire (Not myself included), didn't get a tackle in FA, and unless they get 4 extra picks for the #1, would be unreal!
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i hope the texans draft williams and it pisses you off that way you'd give up your season tickets and a true fan could get them.
 
If the Texans actually listened to the fans, they'd take Vince Young.

And if they did take Young, then that means they knuckled under, and there would be no hope for this franchise.

No real fan would want the team to actually do what the fan wants. Because a real fan is smart enough to realize that he doesn't know diddly about how to run a professional football team.
 
Runner said:
Are they listening to the fan?

I hope not.
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If the Eagles had done that, they would have drafted Ricky Williams instead of Donovan McNabb...bad move. The best part of history is learning from other people's failures and successes.
 
the wonger need food said:
Relax... it's all just negotiating tactics. Bush is the guy.
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Exactly, we should hear contract negotiations with Bush's camp by the end of the week. Just bringing Bush's expectations down a bit. From what I understand, inital contract talks were unrealistic.
 
pittbull said:
We all know that the city will be in uproar if the Texans do not select Vince Young, that is a given that is most likely not going to happen. But what if they pass, not only on Young, but Bush, who both project to be unreal NFL players and possibly future Hall of Famers.
Click to expand...
Wait just a dog gone minute. Who in the heck said Young will "possibly" be a future hall of famer? He isn't even projected to be able to start. Plus, most of the "season ticket holders" do NOT want Vince Young. We don't want him, don't need him, and aren't going to draft him......:stirpot:
 
HomeBred_Texan said:
Wait just a dog gone minute. Who in the heck said Young will "possibly" be a future hall of famer? He isn't even projected to be able to start. Plus, most of the "season ticket holders" do NOT want Vince Young. We don't want him, don't need him, and aren't going to draft him......:stirpot:
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Thank you!
 
texplayer2 said:
All teams keep more than one back. It is always good to have quality and quanity where available.

It actually takes good play on both sides of the ball and some luck to win championships. The Ravens are the only team I remember winning a championship primarily with Defense.
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But our problem is that we can't afford to build quantity at the one position we are strongest at already (running back) at the expense of ignoring other "need" positions (defense). As to the Ravens being the only team to win primarily with defense....the Ravens simply had a poor offense. The majority of recent Super Bowl winners had excellent defenses as well - Tampa Bay, New England, Pittsburgh etc. We need more then "some luck" on defense to win anything.....we need playmakers. Our offense is in very good shape at this point with the changes/upgrades that have been made - I firmly believe that we should focus on upgrading our defense.

Don't get me wrong, I will support whoever we draft - Bush, Williams, Young, Ferguson, Hawk, Davis....whoever it is. I'll buy their jersey, I'll still go to all the games and totally support the Texans......I may disagree with some of their decisions now and then, but that will never stop me from being a Texan fan!
 
tulexan said:
I believe Kevin Faulk split carries with Antowain Smith in the 02 and 04 Super Bowls.
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2004 Super Bowl - A.Smith 26 carries, Faulk 6 carries, Brady 2 carries, Brown 1 carry.

2002 Super Bowl - A.Smith 18 carries, Faulk 2 carries, Edwards 2 carries, Patten 1 carry, Brady 1 carry, Redmond 1 carry.
 
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