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another dismall season

Mycco

Mycco

Noob
Seeing how we are overspending for no-name talent, I think it's pretty safe to say that we are going to be in this same position next year. Clearly, this organization has it's priorities all mixed up. And w/ Gafney going to Phily, there are now more holes in an already enemic offense. I keep hoping that I'm going to be proven wrong, and that the club will just blow me away with a gutsy aquisition but that isn't going to happen, period! At least bring in some big names to at least act like your making a effort at building a winner! Pretty soon, all the good talent is going to be gone, and all we are going to have to show for it is...Weaver and Rosenfels.

TO THE REST OF YOU TEXAN FANS BE PREPARED TO STILL BE #2 IN THE STATE OF TEXAS! THE COWBOYS ARE GOING TO SMEAR THE TURF W/ THE TEXANS THIS YEAR!!! And the only reason is because Jerry Jones ain't afraid to let them hang and get things done!

CASSERLY GET OFF YOUR DUFF AND GET US SOME REAL PLAYERS!!!!!!!!
 
Just because we haven't signed some big name players we're going to suck all over again? Let's wait to see what our new offense will look like before we make predictions. Heck, why not wait until free agency is over why don't we? It's been going on for what, a week, and it's already the sign of the apocolypse? Please. Oh, and let's wait until the draft is over also. There's still a lot of offseason left to change the makeup of this team. Stop whining.
 
Mycco said:
Seeing how we are overspending for no-name talent, I think it's pretty safe to say that we are going to be in this same position next year. Clearly, this organization has it's priorities all mixed up. And w/ Gafney going to Phily, there are now more holes in an already enemic offense. I keep hoping that I'm going to be proven wrong, and that the club will just blow me away with a gutsy aquisition but that isn't going to happen, period! At least bring in some big names to at least act like your making a effort at building a winner! Pretty soon, all the good talent is going to be gone, and all we are going to have to show for it is...Weaver and Rosenfels.

TO THE REST OF YOU TEXAN FANS BE PREPARED TO STILL BE #2 IN THE STATE OF TEXAS! THE COWBOYS ARE GOING TO SMEAR THE TURF W/ THE TEXANS THIS YEAR!!! And the only reason is because Jerry Jones ain't afraid to let them hang and get things done!

CASSERLY GET OFF YOUR DUFF AND GET US SOME REAL PLAYERS!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Think for a minute. Why would you go and spend a whole lot of money on 2 0r 3 players with so many gaps to fill. We are not going to be playoff much less SB contenders next year.You spend this year and next year making solid additions to your team,while staying cap competitive.When you are 1 or 2 players away from the promise land then you hit the FA market hard. I think they are doing just what they need to do to be succesful.
 
I wouldn't call it overspending for no-name talent; I call it stocking the roster with needed players. We needed a DE and we got Weaver; Kubiak wanted another eligible receiver with good hands out of the backfield and we got Jameel Cook. We may have a possible WR coming from Cinci in Kevin Walter to be our #2 or #3 receiver (he also has good size - think Red Zone). Yes, I know we haven't gotten any OLs yet, but give it time. Admittedly, Rosenfels is a head-scratcher, but Banks was gone and I think the Sage one is a better backup for Carr. It is entirely possible that we nab Putzier to fill a need at a multi-purpose TE. Yes, Gaff will be missed but there are other WRs out there that could match Gaff - it could be Walter, I don't know but let it all shake out before you get too aggravated. It is not good for the heart... heh-heh... But what have the Cowboys done except sign Kosier (OL) and cut Keyshawn?
 
I wish I could be as optimisitic as the rest of yall, and honestly I hope yall are right. But w/ evrey passing day another FA that could help fill our countless voids goes off the market. And they expect us to be overjoyed and happy with their lackluster effort to make this team better. C'mon..now...we were an up an coming team just 2 years ago. Now we're worse off than in our expansion year. I know Dallas hasn't made a splash in the FA market yet..but we all know who they are going to start courting. The point is that Jerry is a "GO GETTER", and that's the kind of leadership I feel the Texans need if they are ever going to escape the COWBOYS shadow. High risk/high reward!
 
Mycco said:
High risk/high reward!
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High Risk:
Drew Henson = NO REWARD
Quincy Carter = NO REWARD
La'Roi Glover = NO REWARD
Marco Rivera = NO REWARD
Keyshawn Johnson = NO REWARD
Joey Galloway = NO REWARD x2

Exactly what have the Cowboys done that makes you want to emulate them so badly?
 
TexanSam said:
Just because we haven't signed some big name players we're going to suck all over again? Let's wait to see what our new offense will look like before we make predictions. Heck, why not wait until free agency is over why don't we? It's been going on for what, a week, and it's already the sign of the apocolypse? Please. Oh, and let's wait until the draft is over also. There's still a lot of offseason left to change the makeup of this team. Stop whining.
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Personally I'm waiting until the end of the season to pass any judgement... that is, on the final result ;)
 
We all know you should be a head coach and all, but I leave my team in the hands of the professionals. I will agree with everything and anything they do this year. Next year is a different story...
 
Hoth-Boy said:
High Risk:
Drew Henson = NO REWARD
Quincy Carter = NO REWARD
La'Roi Glover = NO REWARD
Marco Rivera = NO REWARD
Keyshawn Johnson = NO REWARD
Joey Galloway = NO REWARD x2

Exactly what have the Cowboys done that makes you want to emulate them so badly?
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THEY WIN, PERIOD! 5 Superbowl rings! They make moves to win! They've built a history and a winning tradition. That's why everybody hates them. The last time I checked they had a better record than us, the last couple of years.

La'Roi Glover = 6 straight pro bowls
Rivera = until him and Flozell Adams went down w/ injuries the Cowboys O-line was 10 times better than ours...even w/o them they were 10 times better than our line
Keyshawn Johnson = Clutch reviever! 71 catches....3 game winners! How many of our recivers came close to that production?
 
Successful teams build themselves through the draft. Free agency for them is nothing by filling holes. Look at the Steelers, how many of their prominent players were free agent signings? I can think of only Bettis at this point. Their recievers were home grown, QB homegrown, most of their line homegrown. The same goes for their defense.

If you look at the Seahawks you see the same thing except for Hasselbeck. If you have to rely on your pocketbook to save you, you end up like the Redskins. They've been mediocre to above average, but they will never be anything more than that.

What concerns me more are the number of second and third round picks that have busted in the last four seasons. I don't think we have one second rounder in the starting lineup on either side of the ball and we don't have a third rounder either. The key to this season comes on draft day. We need at least three of the first four first day picks to be impact players.
 
Mycco said:
THEY WIN, PERIOD! 5 Superbowl rings! They make moves to win! They've built a history and a winning tradition. That's why everybody hates them. The last time I checked they had a better record than us, the last couple of years.

La'Roi Glover = 6 straight pro bowls
Rivera = until him and Flozell Adams went down w/ injuries the Cowboys O-line was 10 times better than ours...even w/o them they were 10 times better than our line
Keyshawn Johnson = Clutch reviever! 71 catches....3 game winners! How many of our recivers came close to that production?
Click to expand...

Last time I checked the Cowboys had been around a year or two longer than the Texans, give it time.
 
Mycco said:
Seeing how we are overspending for no-name talent, I think it's pretty safe to say that we are going to be in this same position next year. Clearly, this organization has it's priorities all mixed up. And w/ Gafney going to Phily, there are now more holes in an already enemic offense. I keep hoping that I'm going to be proven wrong, and that the club will just blow me away with a gutsy aquisition but that isn't going to happen, period! At least bring in some big names to at least act like your making a effort at building a winner! Pretty soon, all the good talent is going to be gone, and all we are going to have to show for it is...Weaver and Rosenfels.

TO THE REST OF YOU TEXAN FANS BE PREPARED TO STILL BE #2 IN THE STATE OF TEXAS! THE COWBOYS ARE GOING TO SMEAR THE TURF W/ THE TEXANS THIS YEAR!!! And the only reason is because Jerry Jones ain't afraid to let them hang and get things done!

CASSERLY GET OFF YOUR DUFF AND GET US SOME REAL PLAYERS!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

If I were you, I wouldn't put myself through this torment again. I'd log off this board (never to return) and go buy about $500 of Cowboys gear and never look back ....
 
Mycco said:
Seeing how we are overspending for no-name talent, I think it's pretty safe to say that we are going to be in this same position next year. Clearly, this organization has it's priorities all mixed up. And w/ Gafney going to Phily, there are now more holes in an already enemic offense. I keep hoping that I'm going to be proven wrong, and that the club will just blow me away with a gutsy aquisition but that isn't going to happen, period! At least bring in some big names to at least act like your making a effort at building a winner! Pretty soon, all the good talent is going to be gone, and all we are going to have to show for it is...Weaver and Rosenfels.

TO THE REST OF YOU TEXAN FANS BE PREPARED TO STILL BE #2 IN THE STATE OF TEXAS! THE COWBOYS ARE GOING TO SMEAR THE TURF W/ THE TEXANS THIS YEAR!!! And the only reason is because Jerry Jones ain't afraid to let them hang and get things done!

CASSERLY GET OFF YOUR DUFF AND GET US SOME REAL PLAYERS!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

I think you and many others are being really hard on the moves being made this off-season because of last year's record. Nothing about the Texans is going to seem positive to you this off-season , unless it is a big-time move and exactly what you wanted. Dallas had a better record. Actually, everybody had a better record, but that doesn't mean that the Texans will suck forever. Remember that the most important thing the Texans needed to do was fire Capers and his staff and they've not only done that, but they've gone with a great new head coach. It's not all bad and all of it, in fact, may be much better than we realize right now, no matter how it looks.

I myself was dead set against taking Bush with the #1 pick, but now that I see that that's probably what they'll do, I'm willing to go for that ride. Assuming we do that, it's not like the Texans are the only franchise to have considered him worthy. He's convinced a lot of people that he's really something special and I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about taking him unless and until he comes in and actually proves that he is not worth it. I may be wrong and I sincerely hope that I am.
 
chuckm said:
If I were you, I wouldn't put myself through this torment again. I'd log off this board (never to return) and go buy about $500 of Cowboys gear and never look back ....
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TOO LATE...I've been a Cowboys fan since the Oilers left town. Not out of spite, but more rather out of loyalty, because the Cowboys will NEVER leave Dallas or Texas. I'm trying VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY HARD....to give the Texans my alligance, but after the past 2 years of cutting key players and replacing them w/ lamos...I still can't bring myself to have the same faith in them as I do w/ the Cowboys. I can say this about the Cowboys though....at least when they suck, the still suck w/ pride and still give their fans reason for optimism....so far the Texans haven't come close to that.
 
Mycco said:
TOO LATE...I've been a Cowboys fan since the Oilers left town. Not out of spite, but more rather out of loyalty, because the Cowboys will NEVER leave Dallas. I'm trying VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY HARD....to give the Texans my alligance, but after the past 2 years of cutting key players and replacing them w/ lamos...I still can't bring myself to have the same faith in them as I do w/ the Cowboys. I can say this about the Cowboys though....at least when they suck, the still suck w/ pride and still give their fans reason for optimism....so far the Texans haven't come close to that.
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alright then ... how about just dropping the part about buying the Cowboy's gear?
 
Sheesh. At least wait until the offseason is over before writing next season's epitaph. If they land Flanagan + Putzier + Walter and perhaps another O-lineman plus have a good draft, then you'll probably be singing another tune.
 
Mycco said:
TOO LATE...I've been a Cowboys fan since the Oilers left town. Not out of spite, but more rather out of loyalty, because the Cowboys will NEVER leave Dallas. I'm trying VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY HARD....to give the Texans my alligance, but after the past 2 years of cutting key players and replacing them w/ lamos...I still can't bring myself to have the same faith in them as I do w/ the Cowboys. I can say this about the Cowboys though....at least when they suck, the still suck w/ pride and still give their fans reason for optimism....so far the Texans haven't come close to that.
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I think the Texans first 3 years were at or above what you would expect from a new team. I think they fought like **** to compete as best they could. Last year, however, was a total disgrace and I blame Pendry for a lot of it. It will get better.
 
Mycco said:
THEY WIN, PERIOD! 5 Superbowl rings! They make moves to win! They've built a history and a winning tradition. That's why everybody hates them. The last time I checked they had a better record than us, the last couple of years.

La'Roi Glover = 6 straight pro bowls
Rivera = until him and Flozell Adams went down w/ injuries the Cowboys O-line was 10 times better than ours...even w/o them they were 10 times better than our line
Keyshawn Johnson = Clutch reviever! 71 catches....3 game winners! How many of our recivers came close to that production?
Click to expand...


hmm Henson,Carter,Glover,rivera,johnson and galloway gave the Cowboys 5 superbowl wins? WOW
 
HJam72 said:
I think the Texans first 3 years were at or above what you would expect from a new team. I think they fought like **** to compete as best they could. Last year, however, was a total disgrace and I blame Pendry for a lot of it. It will get better.
Click to expand...

I totaly agree....they won me over those 1st 2 years. But, now they are going in reverese and show no signs of turning it around any time soon. I guess I'd be more enthused if we would have landed Givens...but we didn't and the guy we are signing are nothing to get excited about. I have hope for the draft, but something is telling me they will skrew that up as well.
 
Wolf said:
hmm Henson,Carter,Glover,rivera,johnson and galloway gave the Cowboys 5 superbowl wins? WOW
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You know what I mean, genius! Can you say that about any football team from Houston? And I was Luv Ya Blue Oilers.
 
Mycco said:
You know what I mean, genius! Can you say that about any football team from Houston? And I was Luv Ya Blue Oilers.
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I know what you mean, but not picking on you, but that is all I hear from cowboy fans is the 10+ years ago they got their 5th superbowl ring and they hang on to that.. times have changed.. I don't brag to maverick fans about the rockets having 2 rings..

The Al Bundy syndrome gets old.. Jerry hasn't done much since Jimmy left. Jimmy made that team
 
Mycco said:
You know what I mean, genius! Can you say that about any football team from Houston? And I was Luv Ya Blue Oilers.
Click to expand...

You can't say that about too many teams period. Nobody is questioning the long term successes of the Dallas Cowboys.
 
Wolf said:
I know what you mean, but not picking on you, but that is all I hear from cowboy fans is the 10+ years ago they got their 5th superbowl ring and they hang on to that.. times have changed.. I don't brag to maverick fans about the rockets having 2 rings..

The Al Bundy syndrome gets old.. Jerry hasn't done much since Jimmy left. Jimmy made that team
Click to expand...

Actually, I think the Herschel Walker trade made that team, but Jimmy did help. :)
 
Mycco said:
THEY WIN, PERIOD! 5 Superbowl rings! They make moves to win! They've built a history and a winning tradition. That's why everybody hates them. The last time I checked they had a better record than us, the last couple of years.

La'Roi Glover = 6 straight pro bowls
Rivera = until him and Flozell Adams went down w/ injuries the Cowboys O-line was 10 times better than ours...even w/o them they were 10 times better than our line
Keyshawn Johnson = Clutch reviever! 71 catches....3 game winners! How many of our recivers came close to that production?
Click to expand...

Glover = no longer a Cowboy
Rivera = old, and injured. What a winning combonation
Keyshawn = also no longer a Cowboy
Carter = out of the NFL, and the great Jerry traded up for him
Galloway = no longer a Cowboy and cost them 2 first round picks
Henson = going to NFLe
Testeverde = out of the NFL
Fujita = no longer a Cowboy
Ferguson = big money, not alot of production
Dan Campbell = no longer a Cowboy
I, sadly, live in teh DFW and could easily double that list if you want me to.

Are these the types of moves you want the Texans to make? Cause I, and I'm sure several others around here, don't. This is what happens when you continually sign older FA...they're gone in a season or two.
 
I think you look at paying big $ to older free agents when you are a player or two away from the big prize. When you are building a team from virtually scratch you take a different route. Patience.
 
It would be nice to bring some people in who have experience and know what it feels like to win to lead the team. You don't get that from rookies often. However I have been praying for this change in a coaching staff for three years now and I will support whatever decisions they make.
 
Ill give you the rundown of why they have big name signings in Dallas

1. Because they suck at drafting players. Last year was their first good draft since their superbowl run.

2. Because Jerry Jones is the inventor of the big name free agent signing.

3. Because it is an impatient team and does not stockpile talent for the long haul. With parcells at the helm they are starting to do that but Jerry is still impatient.

So if you wanna be a cowboys fan go be a cowboys fan. Dont come in here and whine about the fact a historic franchise has won more games than a developing one. Its not the big names that turn you into a contender, its team chemistry. Look at the 05 Vikings, big FA moves and that team played a dismal 1st half. The raiders with all their big name signings where are they now? how many superbowls aside from the packers with reggie white have been won because of Big Name FA?

Who Won the Superbowl because of chemistry

Patriots , Buccaneers, Steelers, Broncos, Rams, Ravens
 
Mycco said:
I totaly agree....they won me over those 1st 2 years. But, now they are going in reverese and show no signs of turning it around any time soon. I guess I'd be more enthused if we would have landed Givens...but we didn't and the guy we are signing are nothing to get excited about. I have hope for the draft, but something is telling me they will skrew that up as well.
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So now that they had a bad year, you feel your so called "support" for the Texans wavering? If you're a fan of the team, you support them through the good and the bad. You are what we like to call bandwagon fans. What if the Cowboys, once Bill Parcells quits suck for the next 5 years with losing record after losing record? What if the Texans suck for those 5 years just as much? Are you going to quit supporting them? Sheesh..
 
Mycco said:
TOO LATE...I've been a Cowboys fan since the Oilers left town. Not out of spite, but more rather out of loyalty, because the Cowboys will NEVER leave Dallas or Texas. I'm trying VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY HARD....to give the Texans my alligance, but after the past 2 years of cutting key players and replacing them w/ lamos...I still can't bring myself to have the same faith in them as I do w/ the Cowboys. I can say this about the Cowboys though....at least when they suck, the still suck w/ pride and still give their fans reason for optimism....so far the Texans haven't come close to that.
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And when the cowgirls were 1-15 you were an eagles fan right? or giants? Or whoever was winning that year.

If you can't give the new staff at least one offseason before you slay them, or before the first mini camp,or team meeting, then I don't know what to tell you. I sure Kubiak needs to put you on his speed dial :rolleyes:
 
Mycco said:
TOO LATE...I've been a Cowboys fan since the Oilers left town. Not out of spite, but more rather out of loyalty, because the Cowboys will NEVER leave Dallas or Texas. I'm trying VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY HARD....to give the Texans my alligance, but after the past 2 years of cutting key players and replacing them w/ lamos...I still can't bring myself to have the same faith in them as I do w/ the Cowboys. I can say this about the Cowboys though....at least when they suck, the still suck w/ pride and still give their fans reason for optimism....so far the Texans haven't come close to that.
Click to expand...
Nope, the Cowboys will never leave Dallas. Remind me where the current stadium is located? How about the new one? Really?
 
I'll have to admit, I was hoping for more moves this offseason. I am one of the folks who wanted wholesale changes made to the Texans. While not wanting to take anything away from how BAD the coaching was last year, the lack of talent contributed allot to last years record.

I also think that this is now a rebuilding of the Texans, and that this will take more then one year for us to become competitive.
 
Wharton said:
I'll have to admit, I was hoping for more moves this offseason. I am one of the folks who wanted wholesale changes made to the Texans. While not wanting to take anything away from how BAD the coaching was last year, the lack of talent contributed allot to last years record.

I also think that this is now a rebuilding of the Texans, and that this will take more then one year for us to become competitive.
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There has been wholesale changes, we changed our defense, our offense, our coaching staff, let our #2 and #3 recievers go, cut Walker and Coleman.

The offseason JUST started, FA just started and we still have the draft. I didn't think we were going to be a big player in FA and didn't want us to, we are to far off to start overpaying for players.

As far as us being in a rebuilding mode I like to think of it as a building mode, honestly in order to rebuild you would have to have had a established capable system in place, thats something we never had and if anyone didn't think it was going to take more then a year to right this ship they weren't being realistic.
 
Turp007 said:
Hey what planet are you from? You would say that drafting Dat Ngyen, Roy Williams, ect was bad drafting.. Pro-Bowlers. O.K. you hatter! When you make stupid coments, please don't be offended when you get called out! :ok:
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Man its spelled HATER and stop calling people HATERS, because they don't agree with your opinion. This is a messageboard everybody is entitled to theirs
 
Turp007 said:
Hey what planet are you from? You would say that drafting Dat Ngyen, Roy Williams, ect was bad drafting.. Pro-Bowlers. O.K. you hatter! When you make stupid coments, please don't be offended when you get called out! :ok:
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Unfortunately, I do agree with this kid about Dat, Roy, etc.

Hate to see Dat retire. He and Zach Thomas were very similar in that they are ALWAYS around the ball.
 
Turp007 said:
Yea I call it how it is. If drafting pro-bowlers is your idea of bad drafting then it explains why you people are still on the Carr band wagon! Its o.k. You people can stay in your dream worlds, and after another 40 + sack season maybe you can wake up. Hater- A person who makes stupid comments in the sole purpose to try and demise another using no factual proof just a sole opinion. Like you people who make negative comments about Vince or say that Dallas has not drafted any good player since their last super bowl. Haters
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When did I say drafting pro bowlers was bad drafting

get a clue
 
Carr Bomb said:
Man its spelled HATER and stop calling people HATERS, because they don't agree with your opinion. This is a messageboard everybody is entitled to theirs
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Possibly he meant hatter, as in mad hatter? :)
 
chuckm said:
alright then ... how about just dropping the part about buying the Cowboy's gear?
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Chuck,

I love your kids advatar. What a cutie!!!!!!!!
Makes no difference in what mood I'm in, I always laugh at your funny comebacks!:yahoo:

Bobby 119C
 
touttail said:
Chuck,

I love your kids advatar. What a cutie!!!!!!!!
Makes no difference in what mood I'm in, I always laugh at your funny comebacks!:yahoo:

Bobby 119C
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well thankuveramuch ..... and thanks about my avatar ... I agree completely ... that's my grandson, Peyton
 
whiskeyrbl said:
Think for a minute. Why would you go and spend a whole lot of money on 2 0r 3 players with so many gaps to fill. We are not going to be playoff much less SB contenders next year.You spend this year and next year making solid additions to your team,while staying cap competitive.When you are 1 or 2 players away from the promise land then you hit the FA market hard. I think they are doing just what they need to do to be succesful.
Click to expand...

I agree - its long term building with the right FA and the right draft picks
 
I'm personally in a flux about this off season, but I'll make a comment about one concern I have and that is with our WR's. We know AJ will start but everything after that is 'gray.' We've talked about the importance of chemistry between the QB and WR and even thrown around the 'time to gel' thought, so now we virtually start all over/anew!!?? We know--for whatever reason-- Carr has had a tough time in the 'chemistry dept' with the WR's he had for the past 4 yrs, so how will he do starting over? And, finally in this concern of mind, we have a brand new (no experience at any level) WR Coach who is a couple years removed from being a player that spent the last 2 seasons as a Quality Control Coach!!!

New WR's. New 'rookie WRC/OC/HC'. New playbook. We've talked about Capers knack for creating situations that contributed to failure or-at the very least-made it very difficult to succeed--is this happening all over again?...sure hope not.:brickwall
 
There was a time when every head coach was a rookie and most brought in rookie assistants as well.

This makes the Sherman aqisition more important, it gives Kubiak an outlet for questions and advice.

The last staff was so hardheadded in their ways they couldn't adapt to players abilities, and kept banging a square peg into a round hole
 
Mycco said:
TOO LATE...I've been a Cowboys fan since the Oilers left town. Not out of spite, but more rather out of loyalty, because the Cowboys will NEVER leave Dallas or Texas. I'm trying VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY HARD....to give the Texans my alligance, but after the past 2 years of cutting key players and replacing them w/ lamos...I still can't bring myself to have the same faith in them as I do w/ the Cowboys. I can say this about the Cowboys though....at least when they suck, the still suck w/ pride and still give their fans reason for optimism....so far the Texans haven't come close to that.
Click to expand...



Now that is a marketing slogan that I can see people embracing.....


The Dallas Cowboys
They Suck With Pride!!!


:)

Is it possible to start a new Whiny Complaint Forum? I mean, I guess there is a time and a place for whiny complaints, and maybe they deserve to have their own space to breathe and grow and troll. Just a thought.
 
Dont worry...the Redskins and Giants will keep those Bandwagoning Cowboy Fans and their team out the playoffs T.O or no T.O. Im not scared of T.O cuase I know Sean Taylor can shut him down just like he did to Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tony Gonzales, and Antonio Gates ect...Plus hes done it before, let alone has taken T.O out of a game before...
 
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