I hear what you're saying. I'm only saying I an see what Harbaugh was thinking. This is a QB league. & Alex isn't that kind of QB.
If they were up by two touchdowns, it wouldn't have mattered.
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Alex Smith vs. Colin Kaepernick
- Thread starter Fili
- Start date
I hear what you're saying. I'm only saying I an see what Harbaugh was thinking. This is a QB league. & Alex isn't that kind of QB.
If they were up by two touchdowns, it wouldn't have mattered.
ajohnson80
Waterboy
Im confused, are you saying with Kaepernick they beat the Giants by 2 tds?
No, the fumble led to a TD so they would have only won by 1 TD.
Of course I'm not saying they would have won with Kaepernick. What I'm saying is, if you believe this is a QB driven league your chances of winning is better when you have a play-maker at QB. Someone that doesn't just take what the defense gives you.
I don't know that Kaepernick is that guy, but I know Alex Smith is not. Tie his hands behind his back & you might get there with a strong running game & a stout defense.
You add a QB to that run game & defense, & you've got the Giants.
Alex Smith, is fools gold. Makes you think you can do it. Gets you close, but in reality you're not close at all. If it weren't that fumble, it would have been a 3 & out, a monster punt return, & a Super Bowl MVP type QB eliminating you anyway.
ajohnson80
Waterboy
Well it was a field goal and it was overtime. You can't say for sure they would go 3 & out.
I get what your saying and i agree they need to upgrade Alex Smith, but Harbaugh really botched this situation. I'm not sure they can go back to Alex and expect him to play the same knowing that they are going to replace him asap. So now their superbowl hopes are resting on basically a rookie with no postseason experience when the starting qb who got you to nfc champ almost the superbowl was having his best year ever. It's like hes taking a gamble with money he can't afford to lose.
The playoffs are tough and you don't know how long your window is in this league. Theres always a team or two on the rise dieing to take their spot. I don't think you can waste a postseason hoping that kaepernick is the one.
Who knows Kap could go on a huge tear and take them to the superbowl, but more likely he doesn't and makes some mistakes. I could see 49ers fans being rightfully pissed. So I would say 20% chance Harbaugh looks like a genius. 80% he messed up a superbowl contending team. This was a terrible gamble that he obviously made being a prisoner of the moment. Harbaugh's knock is that he can't control his emotions thus leading to dumb decisions like this.
Well Kap isn't a rookie. He's a second year player. Been sitting on the bench getting acclimated to the NFL.
When you consider that, the story kinda sounds like that thing that happened in New England a little while back. While I'm not sure how well Bledsoe was playing before he got hurt, I imagine he played as well as Alex Smith.
One more thing. In a way, sticking with Alex Smith is like playing not to lose. Colin Kaepernik is like playing to win. You take "unneccesary" chances.
ajohnson80
Waterboy
I said he's BASICALLY a rookie because he never started. If Kap fails then its a terrible gamble. A season where they had superbowl talent wasted on developing a young qb. He's not exactly picking opponents apart like Brady was. The last 2 games Kaps offense has only put up 17 and 13, and it might be too late to go to back.
I think it was the 2nd game of the season Bledsoe got hurt and they were 0-2 so its not like they were in a playoff race. Iirc Bledsoe almost died from that injury. He was also gone longer than 1 game i believe it like 6 weeks at least. Brady lead them to an 11-5 season including an 8 game win streak after Bledsoe started out 0-2. Bledsoe was also in the tail end of his career. He was a top 90's qb but father time was catching up to him. So that situation is not the same at all.
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The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I just look at it this way...
Harbaugh has been with both of these QBs for two years. He's seen them in practice and in games.
He thinks Kaepernick gives him the best chance to win.
I think that should pretty much end the discussion right there. Harbaugh knows more about these two players, more about his team, and more about how to play QB than any of us do.
Harbaugh has done some things that have made me scratch my head but it's hard to argue with the overall results.
Harbaugh has been with both of these QBs for two years. He's seen them in practice and in games.
He thinks Kaepernick gives him the best chance to win.
I think that should pretty much end the discussion right there. Harbaugh knows more about these two players, more about his team, and more about how to play QB than any of us do.
Harbaugh has done some things that have made me scratch my head but it's hard to argue with the overall results.
RonnieLott42
Practice Squad
Hello everyone, Niners fan here and just noticed the Smith/Kaepernick thread. It looks like you all have it pretty much figured out.
One correction though and that is that the Niners played at home last year against the Saints and not in New Orleans.
One correction though and that is that the Niners played at home last year against the Saints and not in New Orleans.
GP
Go Texans!
Do you think, as I said a lott earlier in this thread, that this is typical Backup QB Saves The Day stuff going on here? And that once the job is now his, he sort of shrinks back to being a bit unreliable and just flat out average? As if the thrill of the hunt is gone, so what is there to fight for now?
It's easy to be a hero when you think you got nothing to lose by going for it anyways....and then once it's yours, and you're now THE starting QB...the pressure is too great to handle for those types of QBs. They know it takes a few slip-ups and you're back to being a virtual nobody again.
Just my two cents. Interested to hear your replies. And btw, man...I was watching the 49ers highlights...specifically Frank Gore's runs--I just laughed and grunted when I saw him busting those runs. That guy is nails. One of the toughest runners in the game. He can flat out brutalize defenses before they know what happens.
RonnieLott42
Practice Squad
IMO Harbaugh wants Kaepernick to succeed because he was one of Harbaughs first draft choices and he needs to beat the Giants. Word around the campfire is that Harbaugh knows that Smith can beat the average teams but not the top teams that they'll meet in the playoffs. The last game against the Giants was the beginning of the end for Smith and his injury provided Harbaugh the opportunity to test Kaepernick in real game conditions.
While Smith makes almost no mistakes he also takes no chances which is great when playing with a lead but also makes it difficult to overcome one. I think Harbaugh wants to dictate to other teams and not let them get too comfortable. I'll bet we see some deep passes to Moss, Jenkins(#1 pick) and Manningham from Kaepernicks arm in the near future.
When the Niners last played the Giants knew where Smith was going with the ball and disguised coverages to lull Smith into thinking certain patterns were open then picked him off. They said it was through watching film and betting on Smiths tendencies. From SI.com-
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- Antrel Rolle and the New York Giants studied Alex Smith so much they practically knew what was coming.
On one play in the third quarter, even running back Ahmad Bradshaw screamed from the sideline: "Trail. He's watching you." Rolle responded, pretended he was playing the deep ball and then sliced in front of Kyle Williams on a short hook.
"He threw the ball right to me," Rolle said.
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/gameflash/2012/10/14/4980/index.html#ixzz2EAPwgh9k
About Gore, what can I say other than I wish they made more of him. He's carried this team for so many years, I just hope they can reward him with a ring for all his efforts. I've seen the Niners since the last days of Brodie and saw Tyler, Craig, Rathman, Waters. All great players and while I am partial to Roger Craig, I have to admit Frank is special. He runs mad and smooth at the same time.
p.s. The knowledge in this forum is some of best I've seen around and I try to get to every upcoming opponents forum just to see what the inside info is. Texans fans sure do know their stuff.
Speaking of Alex Smith.
What do you think of the decision to go with Kaepernick now?
I know we've seen Alex Smith go against Brees in the Play-offs & hang. We've seen Alex Smith have at least a couple of amazing games.
But if you were to bet money on it, would you think he could have pulled off what Kaepernick did yesterday? I wouldn't. He's just not that guy. That game was right at what I think Smith's ceiling is. The odds of him doing it when you need him to do it are low. That's just the way I see it.
Now Kaepernick wasn't perfect. He had some serious goofs. But he also made plays to "make up" for them & he's got a running game & a defense that will allow him to screw up.
What do you think of the decision to go with Kaepernick now?
I know we've seen Alex Smith go against Brees in the Play-offs & hang. We've seen Alex Smith have at least a couple of amazing games.
But if you were to bet money on it, would you think he could have pulled off what Kaepernick did yesterday? I wouldn't. He's just not that guy. That game was right at what I think Smith's ceiling is. The odds of him doing it when you need him to do it are low. That's just the way I see it.
Now Kaepernick wasn't perfect. He had some serious goofs. But he also made plays to "make up" for them & he's got a running game & a defense that will allow him to screw up.
Scooter
Funky
with the way the defense played, i think the score would've been further apart with smith starting. kaepernick only threw for 200 yards, fumbled the ball 4 times, and threw a pick. those are areas that smith cleans up and is more likely to move the ball more consistently at the end of the game, killing it instead of allowing the pats so much time to mount a comeback.
ajohnson80
Waterboy
I thought Kaep played ok. He is making alot of mistakes Alex wouldn't make, but he is also making plays Alex can't make. The more I see of Kaep it's clear he is a great fit for what they are doing on offense.
I still think Harbaugh made a mistake giving him the team this year because he is still learning and I think he will cost them a game in the playoffs that Alex would not. He should have given the team back to Alex for this season, and spent the off-season better preparing Kaep. This would have given him a whole season to improve on some of his decisions before hitting the playoffs.
I still think Harbaugh made a mistake giving him the team this year because he is still learning and I think he will cost them a game in the playoffs that Alex would not. He should have given the team back to Alex for this season, and spent the off-season better preparing Kaep. This would have given him a whole season to improve on some of his decisions before hitting the playoffs.
RonnieLott42
Practice Squad
This was the game that I was waiting for from Kaepernick and you know Harbaugh was as happy as a pig in...well he was happy.
I never was a big Smith fan and agree that AS probably wouldn't have won in Gillette stadium as his natural temperment is to be careful. That cautious approach wouldn't have worked against the Patriots although he has won many games against lesser teams. When the Niners have tried to have ASmith be aggressive it's resulted in losses(Vikings, NY Giants).
One of CK's best attributes is his aggressive nature on the field. It's strange to see how different the offense looks when someone gets the ball to the secondary and tertiary targets.
I'll roll with the errors that CK makes because so far he's done what good QB's do when they make a mistake and that's follow it up with a good play. Smith would go into safe mode more often than not after a bad play.
No doubt CK has the best safety nets that a young QB could ask for, as you said. I have confidence that CK will be light years better in 2-3 seasons.
Agreed. & as far as the Super Bowl goes, it could be argued that Alex Smith wasn't going to get you there anyway, regardless how far he got you last year. That's the danger with fool's gold. It makes you believe the unreal.
Just as the Super Bowl goes through Peyton or Brady for the AFC (regardless where the game is played), chances are you're going to see Eli or Rogers in the NFC.
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
I always thought of Eli as more of a "doesn't lose the game" QB than one that wins for you. Feel the same way about Alex Smith. Personally I think that is all the 49ers needed this season, but time will tell.
RonnieLott42
Practice Squad
I think that Harbaugh saw so much progress in CK at practice that he had to put him on the field as soon as he could. And the players respond to CK, which might be the biggest factor of them all.
Agree, every team has a dangerous QB that can score from anywhere on the field when you get deep in the playoffs. CK has had a couple of one or two play drives so it's nice to have that ability as well as the patience to grind out 95+ yard drives.
Bottom line, Kaepernick has been everything that Harbaugh imagined when he made the bold play to bench Smith. Part of the reason is that he has such an unusual sense of calm about him under pressure. It is not unlike what the league has seen with the likes of Brady or even Joe Montana, although Kaepernick is a way from that stage. Kaepernick has what can only be term preternatural calm.
"He's been poised throughout games," said Patriots safety Devin McCourty "Nothing seems to rattle him. He's been able to just play his game. Even last week against Miami, with the game on the line, important drive, he keeps it and runs down the sideline for a touchdown. We knew were weren't going to really rattle him or get him out of his game. We knew he was a tough player."
"He was poised, nothing fazed him, and the guys on their team rally around him," Patriots Pro Bowl nose tackle Vince Wilfork said. "He's a good leader … a good leader."
Or as San Francisco guard Alex Boone said: "Am I worried about him in those situations? Not anymore."
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--b...further-validates-niners--move-082742791.html
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
1.CK is drafted by Harbaugh. Smith isn't. CK is Harbaugh's guy.
2. Harbaugh saw something that he didn't like about Smith as their franchise QB last year
3.Harbaugh must saw something in CK last year(Predraft) and envisioned CK as their franchise QB if he pans out. CK continued to show his ability during practice and convince Harbaugh that he is a real deal and confirm Harbaugh's envision.
If there wasn't any QB Harbaugh liked in last year's draft, he is more than likely not drafting QB early.
Just a thought.
2. Harbaugh saw something that he didn't like about Smith as their franchise QB last year
3.Harbaugh must saw something in CK last year(Predraft) and envisioned CK as their franchise QB if he pans out. CK continued to show his ability during practice and convince Harbaugh that he is a real deal and confirm Harbaugh's envision.
If there wasn't any QB Harbaugh liked in last year's draft, he is more than likely not drafting QB early.
Just a thought.
Its pretty rare that a team has 2 QBs with 100+ QB ratings on the season. 49ers system is looking very good right now.
Smith is sitting on the bench with 8 ypa average, 70% completion rate, and great TD/INT ratio.
Maybe Harbaugh wanted to keep him out of play because he wants to go with CK longterm and wanted to make sure Alex Smith stopped while his trade value was at its peak
Smith is sitting on the bench with 8 ypa average, 70% completion rate, and great TD/INT ratio.
Maybe Harbaugh wanted to keep him out of play because he wants to go with CK longterm and wanted to make sure Alex Smith stopped while his trade value was at its peak
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
The problem is when Eli is off... ouch.
This is why I don't put him in the Elite category. You have to get lucky that he gets hot at the right time. Because when he's cold, he'll kill you.
RonnieLott42
Practice Squad
Thought this was kind of interesting-
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0900...slight-athletic-edge-over-newton-trainer-says
Chip Smith might be the only man who has spent considerable time personally working out Cam Newton and Colin Kaepernick -- and he believes the Nevada quarterback is a superior athlete when compared to Auburn's Heisman Trophy winner.
"They're a lot alike in terms of being really special, and they're both extremely athletic," said Smith, founder of Duluth, Ga.-based Competitive Edge Sports. "But Colin is actually a little bit better athletically. He's a little faster -- I've clocked him as low as a 4.4 (-second runner in the 40-yard dash) -- and there isn't a quarterback in this draft who throws the ball with the velocity that Colin does. Colin is a better athlete, and he understands the game better."
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0900...slight-athletic-edge-over-newton-trainer-says
Chip Smith might be the only man who has spent considerable time personally working out Cam Newton and Colin Kaepernick -- and he believes the Nevada quarterback is a superior athlete when compared to Auburn's Heisman Trophy winner.
"They're a lot alike in terms of being really special, and they're both extremely athletic," said Smith, founder of Duluth, Ga.-based Competitive Edge Sports. "But Colin is actually a little bit better athletically. He's a little faster -- I've clocked him as low as a 4.4 (-second runner in the 40-yard dash) -- and there isn't a quarterback in this draft who throws the ball with the velocity that Colin does. Colin is a better athlete, and he understands the game better."
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Why is this even a debate??
Have you guys missed the fact that Smith has been one of the worst QB's in the league for years?? The guy has been a monumental bust and finally had a decent season last year. And yet, there are people acting like he has somehow been done wrong or inappropriately benched?? Alex Smith?? Lol!!
Who is next?? People being up in arms about Horton or Sanchez losing their job as a starter?
Where is Smith going to go? Lol!! You actually think there would be a market for him?? Smith can't go anywhere other then to a team like the Bills or the Raiders where he can compete with other 2nd string types of QB's that are barely starting. Smith has not ever proven consistency or that he's even a top 15 QB. If you're not a top 15 type of QB, you can always be replaced. Smith will be very very lucky if there is any team that wants him as a starter. At best he'll be lucky to go to a team where he can compete for a starting job like the Jets.
Have you guys missed the fact that Smith has been one of the worst QB's in the league for years?? The guy has been a monumental bust and finally had a decent season last year. And yet, there are people acting like he has somehow been done wrong or inappropriately benched?? Alex Smith?? Lol!!
Who is next?? People being up in arms about Horton or Sanchez losing their job as a starter?
Where is Smith going to go? Lol!! You actually think there would be a market for him?? Smith can't go anywhere other then to a team like the Bills or the Raiders where he can compete with other 2nd string types of QB's that are barely starting. Smith has not ever proven consistency or that he's even a top 15 QB. If you're not a top 15 type of QB, you can always be replaced. Smith will be very very lucky if there is any team that wants him as a starter. At best he'll be lucky to go to a team where he can compete for a starting job like the Jets.
RonnieLott42
Practice Squad
What a jump between the last posts and now? Who thought CK would be playing like this after his midseason issues? and who thought Alex Smith would become a "playmaker"?
I'm just happy CK played well today in Green Bay.
I'm just happy CK played well today in Green Bay.