Again I speak of Sproles

[Dime]

Chargers | One May have to Go
Sun, 19 Jun 2005 18:58:21 -0700

Kevin Acee, writing for the Sporting News, reports the San Diego Chargers may carry only three running backs which means either RB Jesse Chatman or RB Michael Turner may not make the team. Chatman has been a solid backup when called on and an adequate kick returner in his three seasons, but the team thinks highly of Turner. The emergence of rookie RB Darren Sproles will more than likely wind up costing Chatman or Turner a job with the Chargers.

God... I wish we would have signed this kid... I knew it..

 

[Lucky]

God... I wish we would have signed this kid... I knew it..

The Texans couldn't have just "signed" Sproles. They would have had to draft him. The Chargers took Sproles in the 4th round with the 130th pick (16 picks after the Texans selected Mathis).

Sproles winning the backup RB over Chatman & Turner would be like Morency winning the backup RB over Wells & Hollings. Not a big surprise and not a great accomplishment.

 

[Huge]

Sproles winning the backup RB over Chatman & Turner would be like Morency winning the backup RB over Wells & Hollings. Not a big surprise and not a great accomplishment.

I wouldn't even say that. Morency might actually have a chance to take over the starting job. There's no way Sproles is going to beat out Tomlinson.

For those that I made the bet with, don't think I've forgotten.

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

Sproles' best chance to have a long playing career is to take the route D.Hall took. Returning kicks and a year over seas won't hurt.

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

I'm not hawking you today....

That's O.K. dude. Before I got deeply involved on these MB's I thought I knew everything. Hawk me all you want, especially if I'm wrong/slighty skewed on a subject.

Back to Sproles though, is he projected as a RB or WR/KR/PR or both in the NFL?

 

[Threader]

The Texans couldn't have just "signed" Sproles. They would have had to draft him. The Chargers took Sproles in the 4th round with the 130th pick (16 picks after the Texans selected Mathis).

Sproles winning the backup RB over Chatman & Turner would be like Morency winning the backup RB over Wells & Hollings. Not a big surprise and not a great accomplishment.

You haven't paid a lot of attention to the SD running game then... Chatman is an awesome RB who would likely start on many other teams- same can be said for Turner, who is unproven but has all the tools for success. Meanwhile, Chatman has proven himself many times over the last couple of years by not only filling in when LT was injured, but as a ST player.

Right now SD has easily the strongest RB stable of any team in the country. We are 4 deep with very good RB's (LT, Chatman, Turner and now Sproles). I dunno... I would think a team like the Texans or the Titans would be very interested in either Chatman or Turner. I think either of them could serve as a fantastic compliment to Davis in a 2-back set... or take over should Davis get hurt.

 

[texasguy346]

Right now SD has easily the strongest RB stable of any team in the country. We are 4 deep with very good RB's (LT, Chatman, Turner and now Sproles).

That's a little bit of an overstatement. When there are teams like Carolina (S. Davis, D. Foster, N. Goings, and now E. Shelton), Green Bay (Green, Davenport, Fisher), and Minnesota (Bennet, Moore, M. Williams, and Smith). San Diego definately has a nice set of RBs, but to calll them the best stable of RB of any team in the country is more ism than fact.

As far as the Texans picking up any more RB I really doubt it would happen. We've got DD, Morrency, Wells, and Hollings.

 

[Threader]

That's a little bit of an overstatement. When there are teams like Carolina (S. Davis, D. Foster, N. Goings, and now E. Shelton), Green Bay (Green, Davenport, Fisher), and Minnesota (Bennet, Moore, M. Williams, and Smith). San Diego definately has a nice set of RBs, but to calll them the best stable of RB of any team in the country is more ism than fact.

As far as the Texans picking up any more RB I really doubt it would happen. We've got DD, Morrency, Wells, and Hollings.

I'd put our 4 against any of them- any day of the week... no question.

The only real threat I see might come from Minnesota's stable. But even there, I think Williams and Smith have so many yards only because they are a running-back-by-committee team. As far as indivual performance and ability... yeah, I'd still take our 4 - not even close.
Look at it like this... Smith, in 6 starts/124 attempts managed 579 yards (5.4 ypc ave) and 5 TD's - and led the team. Bennet was next with 276 yards (3.95 ave) and 1 TD.

Let's compare this with SD...

I won't even bring in LT Chatman had 0 starts/65 attempts and yet managed 392 yards (6.0 yards per carry ave.) with 3TD's... this is the #2 RB, keep in mind. On to #3... Turner had 0 starts/20 attempts with 104 yards (5.2 yards per carry ave) and 0 TD's. Now I have no idea what Sproles will do... but from MC - it looks like he will be an incredible force to be reckoned with.

 

[texasguy346]

I'd put our 4 against any of them- any day of the week... no question.

Of course you would, but that's why I say it's more ism than anything else. You could make an argument that Atlanta has the best stable of RBs with Dunn, Duckett, and Vick. They did lead the NFL in rushing afterall.

 

[Threader]

Of course you would, but that's why I say it's more ism than anything else. You could make an argument that Atlanta has the best stable of RBs with Dunn, Duckett, and Vick. They did lead the NFL in rushing afterall.

LOL... yeah, if you throw in Vick. But a QB isn't a RB... and my statement was made with regard to RB's- and I stand by it.

 

[Threader]

Keeping things strictly among RB's... here's how things stack up. I took only the top 3 RB's - since some teams only have 3... I didn't think it'd be fair to penalize them as far as statistics go. The 4th RB was never really relevant anyway- so its not a big deal. Anyway...

GB had 395 rushing attempts for 1746 yards. Average Yards per Carry was 4.3 with an average of 3 TD's between the top 3 RB's.

CAR had 344 rushing attempts for 1322 yards. Ave Yards per Carry was 3.9 with average of 2.667 TD among the 3 RB's

MINN had 259 attempts for 1199 yards. Ave Yard per Carry was 4.7 with 1 TD ave for the 3 RB's.

SD had 424 attempts for 1831 yards. Ave Yard per Carry was 5.03 with 6.66 TD's among the 3 RB's.

Is that still homerism? Just curious I mean please- I'm open to arguments here...

 

[texasguy346]

I'm not sure why you're dropping off a RB since you're speaking of a stable of RBs. IMO That should include all of them.

Carolina
Goings 821 in 8 starts (healthy all 16 games)
Foster 255 in 3 starts (On IR much of the year)
429 in 2 starts in 2003
Davis 92 in 2 starts (also injured much of the year)
As a starter in 2003 had 1444 yards in 14 games

All of the Carolina RBs have shown that they can carry their team, and I don't think that can be said for any of the San Diego RBs with the exception of L.T. of course.

Minnesota
Smith 544 in 6 starts
579 in 3 starts in 2003
Moore 379 in 3 starts
Bennett 276 in 7 starts
1296 in 2002 as a starter playing in all 16 games
Williams 161
745 in 2003 in 7 starts

While Minnesota's RBs don't have one dominant star they definately have a loaded backfield that has proven they can produce at the NFL level. Smith is far from a great character guy, but he produces when given the chance. The same can be said for Moore, but he'll still have to show more to prove he can be consistent. All this in an offense predicated on the pass.

San Diego
L.T. 1335 in 16 starts
Chatman 392
17 in 0 starts in 2003 (listed as active in all 16 games)
19 in 0 starts in 2002 (listed as active in 10 games)
Turner 104

Wouldn't the best stable of RBs in the NFL have more than one proven starter? Or at least more than one RBs capable of carrying a team when pressed into action, and showing some consistency as a threat? I don't see that to the same degree when I look at SD as compared to Minnesota or Carolina. Are you honestly as comfortable with Chatman starting when L.T. goes down as say a Panther fan would be to have Foster starting when Davis goes down? Or as a Vikings fan would be to have Smith/Williams/Moore starting when Bennett went down?


*EDIT* BTW I won't even include the receiving stats for the RBs even though that is part of a RBs job. I'm sure you noticed the differences yourself.

 

[Huge]

SD had 424 attempts for 1831 yards. Ave Yard per Carry was 5.03 with 6.66 TD's among the 3 RB's.

Tomlinson - 17 TDs
Chatman - 3 TDs
Turner - 0 TDs

Yeah, that "6.66 TD" average among your RBs is a true testament to their depth.

Of those 424 attempts, Chatman and Turner accounted for a whopping 85. Turner's carries were "spread out" over a total of 2 games.

"Stable"? You don't have a "stable". You have warm bodies that occasionally fill in for Tomlinson as he marches towards the Hall of Fame.

There's a big difference.

 

[Threader]

Tomlinson - 17 TDs
Chatman - 3 TDs
Turner - 0 TDs

Yeah, that "6.66 TD" average among your RBs is a true testament to their depth.

Of those 424 attempts, Chatman and Turner accounted for a whopping 85. Turner's carries were "spread out" over a total of 2 games.

"Stable"? You don't have a "stable". You have warm bodies that occasionally fill in for Tomlinson as he marches towards the Hall of Fame.

There's a big difference.

LOL... all I can say is, you'd have to see them in action. Trust me... Chatman would be a starter on a lot of NFL teams. And having seen Sproles?... I know for a FACT that he'd start on a lot of teams

But anyway- thought I'd have some fun... and yer right, after LT, the numbers definitely drop off. But I promise you, it isn't for lack of talent. Sproles looks like he's going to fit in REAL nice... we have to develop some 2 back sets to take advantage of this guy! I haven't seen someone do the things I've seen him do in a loooong time... and that was only from a certain Lion in the 90's.

 

[Threader]

You are absolutely correct on that one... and it is a huge question- no doubt. But in all seriousness, if he's as good in pads as he is without... the NFL will get a wake-up call. No joke. A lot of people knock him for his lack of size... but he's incredibly strong and low to the ground with feet like I've rarely seen before. If he can hold onto the rock, I think he'll be an amazing kid to watch.

 

[Lucky]

LChatman would be a starter on a lot of NFL teams. And having seen Sproles?... I know for a FACT that he'd start on a lot of teams

Feel free to name these teams. I'm in need of a good laugh.

 

[Threader]

SF 49ers... Please... PLEASE argue that one. I dare you.

I'd also throw in Miami, Raiders (although they just got Jordan- so not this upcoming year), Arizona, Bears ... and those are teams that I'm confident he could start. I think he (Chatman) would serve as an awesome backup on several others (better than the existing backups).

 

[Threader]

Thank you sir... and I'll agree- until he puts on the pads and can show he can hold onto da ball... it don't mean squat But I wish you guys luck as well. Let's hope for the best in terms of injuries... the wins will come after that.

 

[texasguy346]

SF 49ers... Please... PLEASE argue that one. I dare you.

I'd also throw in Miami, Raiders (although they just got Jordan- so not this upcoming year), Arizona, Bears ... and those are teams that I'm confident he could start. I think he (Chatman) would serve as an awesome backup on several others (better than the existing backups).

Doesn't Miami have Brown and likely Ricky Williams? You already pointed out Jordan on the Raiders, and he'll probably win the starting job. The Bears have Thomas Jones and Cedric Benson. Benson probably gets the starting job with Jones seeing more action in passing situations. Just a guess of course. He very well could be a starter with the Cardinals, but its hard to point out many backs that wouldn't.

 

[Lucky]

SF 49ers... Please... PLEASE argue that one. I dare you.

I'd also throw in Miami, Raiders (although they just got Jordan- so not this upcoming year), Arizona, Bears ... and those are teams that I'm confident he could start...

I'll give you the 49ers. Who wants them, anyway?

The Dolphins? Do you think they'd sign Ronnie Brown to a $40 million contract & sit him on the bench?

Da Bears? See Dolphins, & knock $10 million off the contract they'll give to Benson.

The Raiders? You debunked yourself (don't see that very often).

The Cards? Don't you think that Denny Green would prefer Arrington over Sproles? Since he took the guy 2 rounds earlier.

So for Charger fans, "many teams" = 1. Somehow, I thought the number would be higher.

 

[Threader]

Doesn't Miami have Brown and likely Ricky Williams? You already pointed out Jordan on the Raiders, and he'll probably win the starting job. The Bears have Thomas Jones and Cedric Benson. Benson probably gets the starting job with Jones seeing more action in passing situations. Just a guess of course. He very well could be a starter with the Cardinals, but its hard to point out many backs that wouldn't.

With regard to Miami... I would consider Ricky the only threat to Chatman- and after being removed from football for so long, I'm not even sure he'd be a threat this year.

And actually- I forgot about Benson on the Bears... so you are right. But I do think Chatman could be right behind him and pushing. I will say this.. Chatman is more of a backup than a starter. I suspect SD will lose one of their RB's over the next year or so - not because of poor performance or anything... I just think they will start to realize that they can earn more $$$ behind someone other than LT

And yeah- the Cardinals was easy I almost felt bad about that one.

 

[Threader]

Say what you will... I think Chatman is too good a back to miss out on. Some lucky team is going to pick him up next year- and he'll be a diamond in the rough. He may not start... but he'll shine if/when called upon as a backup- and he'll be worth every dime given to him.

In regard to Sproles and Arizona... having seen Arrington - and having seen Sproles (on film and even more impressively in person)... I will tell you that based on what I have seen so far... Mr. Green has made a mistake. Now granted, maybe he knows something I do not... like maybe Sproles has a tendency to fumble- or is subject to injury... but as far as running the ball and making people miss? No contest.

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

Threader-dude check it out. We love our RB's too but you won't hear any of us saying Tony Hollings or J. Wells or even V. Morency can start on MOST NFL clubs. And we like our guys. You are also wrong about SF though. They drafted Frank Gore out of Miami and if he can stay healthy....well let's just say that Frank is big enough to probably eat lil' Sprolesy.
Like Vinny said. The fast guys always garner the attention @ these mini-camps.
If I were you I'd be more worried about your road games this season.
4 of which are all the way on the East Coast. Long plane rides do take a toll.
@ NE to then have Pitt @ home
@ Phil to then have KC @ home
@ NYJ to then have a bye
@ Wash to then have Oak @ home
Wow, that is harsh. At least you have Den @ home to finish season. That is if the game has importance to it. Heck, we all might get to finally see Rivers this season. I say 9-7 best case scenario. Good luck though.

 

[Threader]

Threader-dude check it out. We love our RB's too but you won't hear any of us saying Tony Hollings or J. Wells or even V. Morency can start on MOST NFL clubs. And we like our guys. You are also wrong about SF though. They drafted Frank Gore out of Miami and if he can stay healthy....well let's just say that Frank is big enough to probably eat lil' Sprolesy.
Like Vinny said. The fast guys always garner the attention @ these mini-camps.
If I were you I'd be more worried about your road games this season.
4 of which are all the way on the East Coast. Long plane rides do take a toll.
@ NE to then have Pitt @ home
@ Phil to then have KC @ home
@ NYJ to then have a bye
@ Wash to then have Oak @ home
Wow, that is harsh. At least you have Den @ home to finish season. That is if the game has importance to it. Heck, we all might get to finally see Rivers this season. I say 9-7 best case scenario. Good luck though.

Yep... I think our schedule is a nightmare Honestly... 9-7 may be right on The scary part is that may be enough to take the division. I see it as a 3-dog race this year... Oakland and KC are going to fight us for the title- but I just don't se Denver making any noise this year.

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

Yep... I think our schedule is a nightmare Honestly... 9-7 may be right on The scary part is that may be enough to take the division. I see it as a 3-dog race this year... Oakland and KC are going to fight us for the title- but I just don't se Denver making any noise this year.

I kinda saw Den. doing the 10-6 thing again. I won't be back on the MB's for a while but I'd love to come back and see your explantion as to why Oak will be part of a 3 dog race.

 

[Dime]

Sproles... Watch his collage film... it is insaine. Let me just say this.. If he plays next year, let his play speak for himself. If he suxs.. i will yell it to the hills. But if he dont.. hehe.. ummm. you know.

 

[Huge]

LOL... all I can say is, you'd have to see them in action. Trust me... Chatman would be a starter on a lot of NFL teams. And having seen Sproles?... I know for a FACT that he'd start on a lot of teams

But anyway- thought I'd have some fun... and yer right, after LT, the numbers definitely drop off. But I promise you, it isn't for lack of talent. Sproles looks like he's going to fit in REAL nice... we have to develop some 2 back sets to take advantage of this guy! I haven't seen someone do the things I've seen him do in a loooong time... and that was only from a certain Lion in the 90's.

See them in action? Maybe you missed the part about Chatman and Turner only having 85 carries combined last year. Who can say they've seen them in action enough to validate their talents?

And from what you've seen of Sproles (at mini-camp no less) you know for a fact he's start on several teams? I usually expect the blind homerism from fans to come out when a player has a good performance during a pre-season game but mini-camp? Holy hell.

You are absolutely correct on that one... and it is a huge question- no doubt. But in all seriousness, if he's as good in pads as he is without... the NFL will get a wake-up call. No joke. A lot of people knock him for his lack of size... but he's incredibly strong and low to the ground with feet like I've rarely seen before. If he can hold onto the rock, I think he'll be an amazing kid to watch.

Spole's talents is nothing new to these parts. Most of us follow the Big 12 so we're fully aware of what he's capable of. If he makes it (no reason to think he can't), I'd be happy for him. He's always been a great kid and really respectable in every aspect. But I'm not about to paint a picture of him because of a few mini-camp runs.

SF 49ers... Please... PLEASE argue that one. I dare you.

I'd also throw in Miami, Raiders (although they just got Jordan- so not this upcoming year), Arizona, Bears ... and those are teams that I'm confident he could start. I think he (Chatman) would serve as an awesome backup on several others (better than the existing backups).

Okay, I'll argue the 49ers:

Kevan Barlow - He's proven he can carry the ball more than 80 times in a season and be productive. Have Chatman or Turner done this?

Miami - Yeah, Chatman and Turner would start over Ricky Williams and Ronnie Brown. You must like the sun in San Diego a bit too much.

Chicago - Think the Bears just spent the 4th overall on Cedric Benson to have him start behind somebody else?

That leaves you with Arizona...one team. I'm not sure about the California education system but around here, one out of 32 ain't exactly "a lot".

Sproles... Watch his collage film... it is insaine. Let me just say this.. If he plays next year, let his play speak for himself. If he suxs.. i will yell it to the hills. But if he dont.. hehe.. ummm. you know.

Oh I'll be watching closely for the next 10 years. If he doesn't produce the same type of numbers as Barry Sanders, there's a few people on here that will owe me a lot money.

 

[Threader]

I kinda saw Den. doing the 10-6 thing again. I won't be back on the MB's for a while but I'd love to come back and see your explantion as to why Oak will be part of a 3 dog race.

I think Oakland could surprise some people this year. Not just because of Moss... I actually think Jordan will help them out much more than Moss- but it's a circular argument since the receiving game helps the running game and vice versa.

No, what really makes me think they might be a lot better is that they are working on their defense. All around, I think they've done a fair job of addressing some needs. Will it be enough to propel them over SD and KC?... I dunno. I'm actually very impressed with KC so far... nice offseason for them.