CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Evidently covers police officers AND non police bouncers.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CR/htm/CR.14.htm
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CR/htm/CR.14.htm
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Adrian Peterson arrested in Houston
- Thread starter texan279
- Start date
That's the "Citizens Arrest" standard. It covers anybody. It'll hold up a lot better in court with a TCLEOSE certification-holder doing the "arresting".
Very interesting. I never really gave it much thought. Then again, I don't go to bars and don't get rowdy at public events to have a security guard, bouncer, or off-duty cop have to man-handle me.
Good points, though. Their uniform definitely adds weight to their instructions. I've seen it many times at games and concerts (those are off-duty cops at those events, right?)
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
CnD - way late on the citizen's arrest standard. j/k
Yes they are off-duty. That's why you see uniforms which are way outside their jurisdiction.
As I said to me it is about the dramatically different ramifications for behaving in exactly the same way to two guys who may be in exactly the same place providing security, and then how that potentially affects their behavior.
Yes they are off-duty. That's why you see uniforms which are way outside their jurisdiction.
As I said to me it is about the dramatically different ramifications for behaving in exactly the same way to two guys who may be in exactly the same place providing security, and then how that potentially affects their behavior.
GP
Go Texans!
nu·ance (näns, ny-, n-äns, ny-)
n.
1. A subtle or slight degree of difference, as in meaning, feeling, or tone; a gradation.
2. Expression or appreciation of subtle shades of meaning, feeling, or tone: a rich artistic performance, full of nuance.
In other words, when things are black and white...people try and find nuances, subtle degrees of difference, as in meaning, feeling, or tone. In short: Such a person acts as if he/she has the inside track on something and other people merely need to be informed of their ignorance on the topic being discussed.
The problem with nuanced views, IMO, is that it's subjective and open to constant interpretation. Suddenly, the conversation becomes fractured and the main point is lost. Instead, the energy of the discussion is spent chasing all the various veins and rabbit trails of minutia.
mi·nu·ti·a (m-nsh-, -sh, -ny-)
n. pl. mi·nu·ti·ae (-sh-)
A small or trivial detail: "the minutiae of experimental and mathematical procedure" (Frederick Turner).
All the way around, there is no progress toward a sound conclusion that attempts to find truth. Instead, we attempt to create the truth via persuasive debate/speaking.
The lawyer representing Adrian Peterson, for example, is attempting to create a truth rather than finding what truth is really there. And if he can persuade a court of law that HIS truth is real (and it happens ALL the time in America) then what more can I say?
AN EXAMPLE:
One of the worst violators is American Christianity. There is no shortage of nuanced Christian mores in America. Turn on the TV, flip through the God channels, and see how many different views of grace, truth, revelation, etc. are out there for consumption by an all too eager Christian market. All one has to do is merely shop for their choice of church or denomination based on what church/denomination most closely resembles their current needs. And if you can't find it out there...just create one or persuade a few church members to split from the church and create a new brand of church that feels "more right."
I am not blanket labeling Christians on here, either. So I don't want people thinking I'm slamming them per se. I am merely saying that, unlike the Christianity you see in 3rd World nations, or nations were being a Christian is punishable by death or imprisonment, the brand of Christianity that I see in America is soft and mushy and can be formed and shaped to fit the person practicing it. That's a whole 'nuther topic though.
Nuanced thinking does not discriminate. It's found in all corners of the world and through the whole spectrum of human history. I just happen to think it's in concentrated form in America right now (and has been since the 1960s).
Even with what I typed, a nuanced person is going to pick it apart and apply their nuanced thinking towards my statements in order to make THEIR point. Sit and watch, it'll happen in short form.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I will bet the anti AD people have never had a problem with cops being out of line.
The pro AD people have had these problems.
I find that if you do what the cops ask of you, you wont have these problems. Although I can see cops having problems with a young rich black guy not doing what they are telling him to do. Even if it is asking for a glass of water. Cops are generally big introverts with huge egos.
This is usually a case of who is the biggest swinging d**k in the club and it never turns out well for the young rich black athlete.
The pro AD people have had these problems.
I find that if you do what the cops ask of you, you wont have these problems. Although I can see cops having problems with a young rich black guy not doing what they are telling him to do. Even if it is asking for a glass of water. Cops are generally big introverts with huge egos.
This is usually a case of who is the biggest swinging d**k in the club and it never turns out well for the young rich black athlete.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
GP
Go Texans!
A lot of contradictions in your post.
You start off by saying that some have had cop problems and some have not...therefore the opinions being stated here are lining up with those experiences.
Then you say "I find that if you do what the cops ask of you, you wont have these problems"
Then you swerve immediately into an attack and blanket statement about cops. With racial comments sprinkled in, as well.
At the end of the day, most cops are just wanting to get off their shift and go home and celebrate making it through the day alive and unharmed.
EDIT: I just remembered a story that fits this issue. I have a friend who is a cop, long-time veteran, and he had to remove a disorderly person from Wal-Mart. Multiple times within a 30 minute span; the disorderly guy kept going back into Wal-Mart. Finally, the cop takes him out for like the 3rd time and the guy spits into the cop's face. My friend says "I will take a cussing all day long. You spit in my face, you go to jail. You just CHOSE to go to jail, so I will take you there." See what I mean? Cops actually put up with quite a bit, but anytime hands are laid on them, or body fluids are hurled upon them, they're going to take the person to jail. At some point, the game is over.
Adrian Peterson laid hands on an officer who was asking him and his group to leave. The officer did not respond to the trash talk. The officer responded to AP laying his hands on him. Totally justified.
Adrian wasn't busted up. Adrian MESSED up. And he's trying to recover some public opinion by saying the cops were over the line.
There would be a huge outcry if he genuinely suffered at the hands of cops. There would be no shortage of people running to the podium. As it stands, there's an opportunistic lawyer and a sad sack NFL superstar at the podium.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Didn't say it did. I was interested in why she was in an arguement with bartender. I think process is you tell 'em what you want and pay for it. His explanation clarified & made sense.
C'mon, man, that's just not true. I do not see everything in black and white perspectives. I constantly see shades of gray. There are many stories in the NSZ that I have not taken the side of cops when they do wrong.
I try to come to logical conclusions as a judge in the court of public opinion (where were are ALL judges, btw).
It makes no sense (to me) that AP is showing up at a bar at 1:20 a.m., is cold sober, and randomly gets pushed around by a cop.
When the GM of the bar is saying that he was acting like a drunk prima donna, I can easily believe that some superstar athlete thinks the rules don't apply to him and wants special treatment. It happens all the time with rich celebrities. They believe their own hype machines.
Occam's razor to me. Anything else requires aluminum foil around my head and a belief that multiple people are going to create an elaborate conspiracy in the spur of the moment.
One version makes sense because it's simple, and the other requires a complete suspension of reason and logic to swallow.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
While I appreciate your simplicity argument consider this - why would a club or police officer refuse giving water to someone they claim was obviously inebriated? When closing time hits they usually start serving up water and Red Bull as quickly as they can to perk up the drunks.
Also, how credible is a club GM who is essentially stating now "we kept serving drinks over several hours to an obviously belligerently drunk person?" Does it make any sense as the GM relates it that AP had to act so poorly he got stuck in the VIP area? - what club around would not automatically put AP in the VIP area?
In the end it is useless at this point to accept anything said IF there really is surveillance video.
Stemp
Brew Master
Would you give anything extra to a person who has been causing trouble or being a pain the ass at your establishment? Especially if that person is hanging around and unwilling to leave at closing time?
I didn't see anywhere where Peterson was being a belligerent drunk. It said he was being a prima donna and basically an ass. And nowhere does it say that they kept serving him drinks after it was apparent he was drunk. If they did so, their liquor license or the bartenders job would be in jeopardy.
I've served people who I thought were OK and they 5 minutes later it really clear they are smashed. At that point, you cut them off but you aren't their nanny. And if that person was being an ass to me, I would basically ignore any request and I would make sure security got their ass out at closing time.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Just curious,if a customer is being an ass why wait until closing to get them out? Is it a money thing?
Stemp
Brew Master
Obviously, I don't know, but if I were to guess, it's because they didn't want to cause a scene by kicking out a celebrity and they were just willing to wait it out till closing time. But he didn't leave, even when the police officer told him and his group they needed to go, twice.
Well I guess it depends on which story you buy into. One says he was polite and asked for water (unnamed source). The next story says he was drunk and demanding a drink after closing time (club GM).
His mug shot looks like he was drinking to me.
I have not seen the story where the GM admitted that they kept serving him drinks after he was inebriated. Like Stemp, my impression was that AP was being an egomaniac and they decided to put him in VIP.
I did use the term "belligerence" in one of my previous posts, but that was describing AP during the incident and from the perspective that he was drunk when confronting the cops. That's the first word that comes to my mind anytime some intoxicated fool starts picking fights with a cop. But the club GM never used that word, iirc.
As far as putting him him VIP upon arrival, perhaps since the club was only open for another 35-40 minutes (according to AP), they might not have felt it warranted?
Yep, true. It will be interesting to see if anything comes from the vid.
I've got a hunch that HPD will drop the charge because it's a little weak, and AP will want to get this behind him before the football season starts.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I meant give as in serve not free but many bars will give free water. And yes because it is sound business policy to give/serve people who have been drinking water.
Pick your term. Obnoxious, ass, belligerent. Here is a guy who has supposedly been to the club before so you know who he is but don't put AP in the VIP area and then when he behaves uncharacteristically drunk there is absolutely no indication he got cut off. They moved him after his uncharacteristic behavior. You think he sat politely in the VIP area after being told he was cut-off and then waited until closing time to get aggressive? Could be. Given the GM's comments I'll bet they didn't cut him off. In fact, according to the GM AP was trying to order "one more" drink
I am not taking any position yet. I am asking questions because it doesn't seem so simple as the GM's story to me. Why hasn't he been charged with assaulting a police officer? How about disorderly conduct, drunk in public, etc.?
I have no doubt he was drinking that night. What he was ordering after closing time is up in the air.
Again why wasn't he already in the VIP? Given the nature of his other comments I think the GM would have said if they cut him off. Tacit admission by not saying so. That's a critical fact to leave out of his comments.
I wasn't even referring to your use of the word. Belligerent drunk is a term I use for obnoxiously drunk people.
Aren't you picking pieces of stories now? Believe the GM's story was he was there for 2-3 hours.
Yankee_In_TX
Dance Lindsay!
The GM is being a dumbass and is going to get himself and the club in trouble with TABC. They're a national chain and probably won't stand for his nominating himself as a spokes person for the club.
As for the truth, I still think it is some where in the middle. I believe AP was drunk and I believe the cops were jerks to him. What actually happened, we'll probably never know.
As for the truth, I still think it is some where in the middle. I believe AP was drunk and I believe the cops were jerks to him. What actually happened, we'll probably never know.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Let's just pretend for a minute that he didn't do what they say he did. Let's pretend that maybe they had no just cause to arrest him, and therefore no basis for a resisting arrest charge. After all, there is no accompanying charge for which he would have been arrested and subsequently resisted. So let's just pretend that he feels he's innocent, and maybe even is innocent. What should he do? If he were going to loudly proclaim his innocence and figuratively shout it from the roof tops, what lawyer would he hire? There are a lot of our rights being eroded in this country, but at least you can still fight for your day in court if you think you're innocent.
And you know this because ... ? He and Rusty Hardin deny it. The initial report said he did. We'll find out when the court decision is made, I reckon, but you don't know any more than anyone else on this board. Personally, I am in a complete wait and see mode.
GP
Go Texans!
You honestly think a guy in a bar at 2 a.m., who had been told to leave numerous times, is innocent of all this??? Or that it needs wait-and-see privileges???
Okie dokie.
Look, the cops didn't go yank some librarian out of bed at 2 a.m. and charge him with a bogus crime. This was a BAR. At 2 in the morning. Tell me again how this might not be what I think it is.
Once again, this whole "Our rights are being eroded" crap is not justification or rationalization for anything where a guy at 2 a.m. in a bar mouths off and then probably resists efforts to get him out the door.
Only in America can we find ways to exonerate the guilty and imprison the innocent. THAT is the real travesty, eriadoc. And you know it.
eriadoc
Texan-American
I'm not exonerating anyone. I am generally of the opinion that nothing good happens at 2AM. I'm simply saying that you don't KNOW **** and nor do I. And I'm also saying that this is America, so he has the right to his day in court. Good for him.
Sorry if that was an especially complicated post.
GP
Go Texans!
All he did was get taken downtown and booked. Hell, it probably saved his life.
My only point is that AP knows full well he was drunk and was asking for such an ending. That he'd tie up the courts AND slander the cops is very telling.
He worries about his public image? Then he should be more cautious with how he acts in public.
Day in court? Fine by me. Doesn't take away from the sticky nature of the ordeal.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Roger & Rusty deny Clemons took steroids. Most of America doesn't buy that, either.
eriadoc
Texan-American
That's true. The key difference is that Clemens was never going to stand trial for taking steroids. AP will be forcing a trial for this particular charge, so I guess we'll actually get to find out.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
If it goes to court, there is a likelihood that we find out much more about AP than we now know............and that he would want us to know.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
badboy
Hall of Fame
You said you would wait until closing time on an asshat then security would remove them. My question is why would you, Stemp wait that long? Doesn't your employer have the right to withhold service from certain people?
GP
Go Texans!
It's not sick. Abuse OF the legal system is a major reason for rising health care costs (frivolous lawsuits).
And now a wealthy, above-the-law NFL star thinks he deserves a day in court.
At 2 a.m. in a bar, being asked to leave, refusing, being asked again, then laying hands on a cop (from behind, according to reports)....yeah, I'll go with what I said and continue to say: AP should've (a) been in control of himself, (b) should take his jailing like a man and simply resolve to be smarter in the future.
But hey, it's more fun to make the lives of a few cops miserable over such a DUMB situation to begin with.
Watch the personal insults toward fellow members too. I would never call you "sick." I might give reasons why I disagree with you, but I will never call names at you. Give me the same courtesy, fair?
Stemp
Brew Master
I said security would remove them if they didn't leave.
Think about how many people are in a club and how big a ruckus there would be if a celebrity was tossed while everyone was still there, especially if the only thing they did wrong was act like prima donna, which likely most people don't see because they aren't paying attention.
Now, imagine the club is mostly cleared out and people are required to leave and that person doesn't. You now have a good excuse to get security to escort them out and there are fewer people there to start any trouble or get in the way.
The club doesn't any trouble and probably was willing to deal with a difficult celebrity customer till the end of the night. Sure, they could cut them off and get the bouncers to toss them, but it's probably not worth the hassle, uproar and bad PR to do.
The fact is, if Peterson and his group didn't leave when asked, they was going to get escorted out anyways. Sounds to me like he did something stupid while drunk and he got has ass arrested.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yeah it is sick and your injection of an uneducated off-topic health care costs assertion is ridiculous as well.
Thinks he deserves? Please crawfish that statement in some fashion to try to demonstrate any basic knowledge of not just our legal system but founding principles.
He doesn't think he deserves a day in court - EVERY FREAKING PERSON CHARGED WITH ANY CRIMINAL CHARGE IS ENTITLED TO A DAY IN COURT.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Well hello stawman
Every person deserves his or her day in court. Everyone. A person's status in this case one in which makes you jealous shouldnt have any impact on said person's rights
I like how you use whatever portion of he said she said to fit what you think should be done. He should take his jailing like a man? What kind of nonsense are you talking?
Your actions or should I say your need to remove someone's rights is sick. People are innocent until proven guilty and to change the system to fit your personal beliefs is crazy. If I see a situation that sickenss me I am certainly going to state it.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Rusty will make mince meat of prosecutors in court if there's no video.
GP
Go Texans!
That's pretty sad.
You know those times when you need the edit button before things get quoted? This is one of those times for you.
I think most people are sick and tired of the racial issues. And comments like that are not worth the effort required to respond to.
Because he's black, and because I said what I said, you're using bad math to create a bad answer. But hey, your evaluation/analysis skills have been pretty bad on football issues too...so what the hay, it's par for the course I suppose.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
drunkcookie
2 drunk 2 cook
When he was in Palestine last month he signed autographs for a few hours at no charge, then hung around for pictures and conversation. The town does an annual day in the park. He arrived about 10:30 a.m. and he was still there when I left around 4:30. On many occassions I have observed that his seemingly favorite attire is a white v-neck tee shirt, except for the club scene one night he had a polo shirt and was not drinking. I mention this because if anywhere to let your hair down, it would be at home. He also seeem to enjoy driving his signing bonus BMW sedan.
My initial reaction to the charge was that doesn't sound like A.D. I have been in his presence at a club as well as other events, and this doesn't pass the smell test. I wasn't there, and therefore don't know, but it certainly is uncharacteristic of the A.D. that I know, respect, and admire.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
BullBlitz
Section 331
Duh, making them do an honest days work.
If it makes them miserable to an honest day's work then they should do something else for a living.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Vikings hire self-described “scumbag” to talk to their rookies
July 14, 2012, 12:52 PM EDT
He delivered his talk to the Vikings rookies during the Vikings Rookie Symposia in the spring of 2009 and 2010. You might also want to read this article about the man.
Vikings warned: 'I am a scumbag (strip) club owner who will use and abuse you'
July 14, 2012, 12:52 PM EDT
He delivered his talk to the Vikings rookies during the Vikings Rookie Symposia in the spring of 2009 and 2010. You might also want to read this article about the man.
Vikings warned: 'I am a scumbag (strip) club owner who will use and abuse you'