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One thing DC has ---- accuracy
- Thread starter gtexan02
- Start date
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Hopefully somehow Kubiak can make Carr a consistant player. I think that if there is a coach who could do it, it would be Kubiak.
Now I want David to start against NYG..... I think it is the right thing to do.
But both he & Carr completed 70% of their passes yesterday, except Sage got 3 TDs and 80 more yards than David Got.
MissouriTexan
Waterboy
Hasn't Carr only had one meltdown this season? IMHO, he's made significant strides this season, although unfortunately, the time the defense and running game were finally on track was the time he performed very poorly.
This is the one game all season we should have dominated and we came out with a loss.
70% is awesome. There are not many QBs that can keep that pace for an entire season, and it is definitely worth mentioning.
Consistency is the key. I thought he was going to come out kickin' A for this game. Our team played well enough if he'd just been mediocre. But man, I certainly did not anticipate Carr looking that bad. It was of his worst performances that I can remember in recent history.
I agree. It's the right decision, because Kubiak needs to know how Carr will respond to this situation. It's the first time in his career that he's experienced this kind of setback, so the Giants game will be a big test for him. And to make it even tougher, it's against a good team on the road.
He looked pretty bad in the 2nd half against the Cowboys. But he rebounded with a great day against the Jags. It's almost a Jeckle and Hyde thing right now.
Titan "Tack" Fan
Veteran
OK im sorry to break it to you but all I saw from Carr on Sunday was a bunch of screens, 3 yard dump offs to the TE, and flat passes to the backs.
No wonder his completion percentage is so high..........
No wonder his completion percentage is so high..........
IshouldbeGM
Noob
I'd hit 70% accuracy too if i were throwing 4 yrd passes to the running back every other attempt!
Exactly, you cannot compare Carr to other NFL QB's that throw the ball down the field. 2 and 3 yard passes are almost always completed and rarely intercepted. His stats are misleading. I judge him by what I see on Sundays not what the stats say afterwards.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
You do know we run the West/Gulf Coast offense right?Titan "Tack" Fan;485062 said:
He's been doing this his whole career. He's just doing it better.
Hulk75
Veteran
Let me say this about this whole thing, the can of warms that Kubiak opened on sunday I think hurt the relationship between him and Carr a little. The trust factor had been broken that day by Kubiak.
David Carr has done a good job with a team that went 2-14 last year, did he have a great 1st half NO but NIETHER did the Offensive line (pass wise) He did not hold on to the ball very long, as soon as he hit his back foot they were on top of him, what should he do?
The pick is in excusable, he should not have thrown that ball, BUT! Is he the only QB that through a pick yesterday?( and that pick was in their area and they got no points off it, I am not excusing it, I am just saying) I believe the Super Bowl champion Ben Rothlisberger throw 4 ints 1 in the red zone that went for 100 yards, I saw a lot more guys on Sunday that should have saw the bench before Carr.
To come here to Houston and say to everyone (Kubiak) I am going to be here through the rough times and through the good times, and then to bench him on only 2 plays were he was vonerable for a Fumble is STUPID! and WRONG! If your going to bench a guy for playing bad VERY bad, for over a span of a couple games then yea I understand that, BUT for Gary to sit David Carr down because of 2 plays were he was hammered AGAIN is wrong.
For all the stuff he takes in this town for the last 5 years and to bench him on that day were he is playing against the Titans, against the guy most everyone wanted and to NOT LET HIM BATTLE BACK just blows my flippin mind.
Perfection is not going to happen in 6 games Kubes, he has done pretty dang well with the time he has had in THIS SYSTEM. I believe that Kubiak had a brain fart, made a split second decsion and TRUTHFULLY I "GARUNTEE" he apologized to Carr after the game. Just the fact that he did not let David battle back blows me away!
And the play before the half!!!!!!!!! Dangit, you know Coach they have not protected Carr all game the way they should, SO WHY in the Blue Blazes try to throw the football with the preasure they were putting on him! They rushed 4 against our 5 and played cover 4. He put the team and Carr in a very tough possition.
Say what you want, call me whatever but Gary was wrong not to let Carr finish that game.
Anyways thats what I "think"
happened
David Carr has done a good job with a team that went 2-14 last year, did he have a great 1st half NO but NIETHER did the Offensive line (pass wise) He did not hold on to the ball very long, as soon as he hit his back foot they were on top of him, what should he do?
The pick is in excusable, he should not have thrown that ball, BUT! Is he the only QB that through a pick yesterday?( and that pick was in their area and they got no points off it, I am not excusing it, I am just saying) I believe the Super Bowl champion Ben Rothlisberger throw 4 ints 1 in the red zone that went for 100 yards, I saw a lot more guys on Sunday that should have saw the bench before Carr.
To come here to Houston and say to everyone (Kubiak) I am going to be here through the rough times and through the good times, and then to bench him on only 2 plays were he was vonerable for a Fumble is STUPID! and WRONG! If your going to bench a guy for playing bad VERY bad, for over a span of a couple games then yea I understand that, BUT for Gary to sit David Carr down because of 2 plays were he was hammered AGAIN is wrong.
For all the stuff he takes in this town for the last 5 years and to bench him on that day were he is playing against the Titans, against the guy most everyone wanted and to NOT LET HIM BATTLE BACK just blows my flippin mind.
Perfection is not going to happen in 6 games Kubes, he has done pretty dang well with the time he has had in THIS SYSTEM. I believe that Kubiak had a brain fart, made a split second decsion and TRUTHFULLY I "GARUNTEE" he apologized to Carr after the game. Just the fact that he did not let David battle back blows me away!
And the play before the half!!!!!!!!! Dangit, you know Coach they have not protected Carr all game the way they should, SO WHY in the Blue Blazes try to throw the football with the preasure they were putting on him! They rushed 4 against our 5 and played cover 4. He put the team and Carr in a very tough possition.
Say what you want, call me whatever but Gary was wrong not to let Carr finish that game.
Anyways thats what I "think"
happened
W
whiskeyrbl
Guest
Face it no one wants to give any of the players we have credit. EX: We beat the Jags! What do we hear... Their best players are hurt. So That same team just beat Philly ...didn't hear anything about injuries affecting the eagles. I think it's hilarious. DC is the most accurate QB in the NFL this year. And by the way we aren't the only offense running these type plays.
run-david-run
All Pro
Did I miss something? The man complete 15 of 21 passes with one pick. Yes he fumbled at very bad times, but its not like he went out and started 3 of 14 like Leinart and was throwing picks left and right. It was a series of mistakes that held us back in the first half, not Carr. Until the fumble before halftime (which I blame on the coaches for the way they handled the 2 minute drill), Carr wasnt playing well, but he certanly wasnt costing us the game. To start the 3rd quarter, he leads a good drive down to the 15 or so and then gets sacked from the blindside at the top of his drop, its not like he had time to escape the rush, and messes up by losing the ball. Did he play well? No. Did his performance cost us the game? I dont think so. Others will dissagree, but I think this one is on the whole team, not just Carr.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
maybe thats the problem too many people focus on measureables like accuracy instead of winning and playing heads up football. VY sure did not light it up but he did not cost his team the game either. And how long is Kubiak supposed to stay with Carr when nothings working and turning over the pigskin like sausage on a hot grill 
watch 3rd year Charger QB Philip Rivers no big stat sheet but consistant, doesn't turn the the ball over and when his leadership is needed he has shown the ability to make plays that move the chains and score once in the Red Zone
watch 3rd year Charger QB Philip Rivers no big stat sheet but consistant, doesn't turn the the ball over and when his leadership is needed he has shown the ability to make plays that move the chains and score once in the Red Zone
HJam72
Hall of Fame
I've always defended Carr for the most part, I think the O-line can take some of that blame, and I still think Carr would be REALLY good if he had like immaculate protection, BUT he's got to stop fumbling the ball such a large percentage of the time when he is sacked. I really doubt that it is a question of toughness. I think the issue here is one of hearing or feeling it coming. He gets nailed too much without having any idea that he's about to get hit.
He may have had periods where he imagined that he was about to get hit, but then when he really is he doesn't have any idea. Or, maybe he just needs to keep a firmer 2 handed grip on the ball when he's not throwing it.
He may have had periods where he imagined that he was about to get hit, but then when he really is he doesn't have any idea. Or, maybe he just needs to keep a firmer 2 handed grip on the ball when he's not throwing it.
WiiBrawler
WiiMan
Titan "Tack" Fan;485062 said:
He is playing it safe, for the sake of his qb rating
I think DC broke a trust with his head coach by not protecting the ball. We hear it all the time on the radio here. I'm sure DC has heard it a million times. Kubiak won't tolerate it. Also, on the Hope INT, I heard Kubiak say last night that the Texans scout team gave DC the same look in practice and DC made the right read. So why does he do the right thing on Wednesday but can't do it on Sunday? (Kubiak's rhetorical question that I'm just repeating).
Kubiak gave DC a chance to battle back by letting him start the second half. He fumbled the ball away on the first drive. I think he had seen enough at that point. I know I did.
And no, it's not all his fault, but a lot of it is.
Hopefully DC gets over his hurt feelings quickly. We need someone to play QB.
Hulk75
Veteran
Do you kind of get what I am saying? Should he protect the ball Yes, BUT bro what can he do on that play were he was hit in the back after the half? In the back he is looking down field( and if you watch it the ball was not being hung out there it was were it was suposed to be, possition wise.). Instead how about we stick up for Carr (coach) and give Ephram a tongue lashing.
Carr is a pro, I doubt heavily he has given this thing another thought, but for that day yes it did hurt.
6 games were he played better then everyone thought he would, and then to pull him based on 2 plays, I have saw worse on Sunday.
Its in the past and I am done with it.
No, I don't get what you are trying to say.... based on 2 plays??
This goes back to Indy..... 2 fumbles that put Indy inside our 20, and led directly to 10 points agianst us. he had 3 fumbles on the day.
Washington.... 3 fumbles..... 2 recovered, the 3rd led to a field goal(3 points against us) in the third Qtr.
Miami.... 2 fumbles. One led to a Field goal by Miami(3 points against us).
Tennessee.... 2 fumbles... one led to 7 points by Tennessee.
EphraimSallam..... far as I know, he's been penalty free up to the Tennessee game.
very true...
The reality is that Sage has had no more time to pick up this new WCO system that Kubiak has installed than DC has, yet he's functioning in the
new system better than Carr. And of course he's not had the benefit of all
the playing time that David has. And we saw this early on in preseason.
And with 5 years of experience, DC has only been in the NFL one less year than Sage.
DC seems to be the one who needs the training wheels, not Sage. But again
being realistic, he's the one who is the most talented and represents one
of the biggest investments.
new system better than Carr. And of course he's not had the benefit of all
the playing time that David has. And we saw this early on in preseason.
And with 5 years of experience, DC has only been in the NFL one less year than Sage.
DC seems to be the one who needs the training wheels, not Sage. But again
being realistic, he's the one who is the most talented and represents one
of the biggest investments.
How about we judge Carr by the standards that his head coach is? Obviously, Kubiak thinks that Carr should be able to protect the football. You can talk to Ephram about doing his job better AND expect Carr to not fumble. It is not an either/or proposition. At least, that's what Kubiak says and from the looks of Sunday does.
TexanFanInCC
Veteran
im probably repeating what alot of people have already said in this thread, but i was lazy to read all the posts. i think 70% is great, but look at the kind of passes he throws...nothing but dinkers to the RB and TE. he has hardly taken the shots down the field, and when he has, he has been successful (mainly bc of andre) but i mean sage rosenfels had no problem going down the field (my definition of DTF is like 15+ yard) when he was in the game.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
The bottom line is David has more talent and raw skill than Sage but Sage has played the position of QB better than Carr every time we have rolled him out. Sometimes the physical prototype isn't always the better football player. Sage is just an average QB...but he looks far more advanced and way ahead of Carr every time we have seen him play...tells me something.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
If Carr is gonna be great ... then his feelings will get hurt a lot more and he'll stop being dumb and careless .
Who cares about completion % and QB ratings we're 4-19 the last two years . If fumbles counted in a QB rating Carr would be in the 40's .
I'm not sure Carr will be the starter in three weeks ... stay tuned drama fans . Kubiak demands consistancy ... maybe this is as good as it gets .
Who cares about completion % and QB ratings we're 4-19 the last two years . If fumbles counted in a QB rating Carr would be in the 40's .
I'm not sure Carr will be the starter in three weeks ... stay tuned drama fans . Kubiak demands consistancy ... maybe this is as good as it gets .
If Carr is gonna be great ... then his feelings will get hurt a lot more and he'll stop being dumb and careless .
Who cares about completion % and QB ratings we're 4-19 the last two years . If fumbles counted in a QB rating Carr would be in the 40's .
I'm not sure Carr will be the starter in three weeks ... stay tuned drama fans . Kubiak demands consistancy ... maybe this is as good as it gets .
The one thing that Carr has not delivered in his career is consistancy...bad or good. If he had just been a completely bad player, it would have been easy to dismiss him and the Texans would have moved on long ago. On the other hand, everytime it looks like Carr is becoming more than just another guy in the league, he comes up short.
At the end of the day this is what Carr is until he shows something different. I am not convinced that you can coach it totally out of him. How does someone coach around a QB when you don't know which guy you are going to get not only from game to game, but even within a game?
R
real
Guest
Player................................Yards/Att
Donavan McNabb--------------8.3
Peyton Manning----------------8.0
Marc Bulger-------------------7.8
Drew Brees-------------------7.5
Rex Grossman-----------------7.5
Phillip Rivers-------------------7.3
Eli Manning------------------- 7.2
Chad Pennington--------------7.1
David Carr---------------------6.9
Michael vick------------------6.9
Tom Brady--------------------6.9
Jake Delhomme---------------6.4
Byron Leftwhich--------------6.3
Brett Favre-------------------6.3(has averaged 7.0 for his career)
Jake Plummer------------------6.1
Take these stats FWIW....
What I concur from these stats is that Carr is about average when it comes to gains on passing plays...
Heres another stat for you....Passing plays over 25 yards Carr is basically tied for 7th in the leauge, but is only 4 passes over 25 yards away from the fourth place Manning...
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
My first observation would be to say that most of those guys are on winning teams. I would like to see how he stacks up against QB's on losing teams since they are normally playing catch up. Also what is the term of those stats, just this year?
R
real
Guest
Yep just this year...and I'll look for some losing QB's....one sec....
http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leaders.asp?year=Q&type=NFL+Passing&rank=118&Submit=Go
This goes straight to the argument that if Carr had a good coach, if carr had good WRs, if carr had really good protection...Sage Rosen. is considered league wide as no more than an average talent and even as a back-up in this league a pretty average type of guy. There are 50 guys in the league who play effecient, non-embarrassing QB under above average conditions. The standard of whether a QB is really good or "great" is what does that QB accomplish once you start taking the stuff around him away, especially how does he handle pressure. Pressure, being both the physical kind and mental/emotional type. I would argue that many of us have seen what he does under physical pressure, this week is really the first time Carr is under the mental/emotional type of stuff. This week will go a long way in showing us if Carr is truly something else or just another guy.
playerhater
Practice Squad
highest QB rating coming in before last week game huh, wonder why. Dump passes or short passes all day that isn't effective on getting the first down. Throws TD passes when it doesn't count. Has no balls to throw the ball deep when you got good WRs. It's like he throw short passes in order to have a high completion percentage, something I would do in a NFL video game.
I'm tired of the Texans babying him and pampering him. It's starting to get old blaming the O-line.
Let's be real he has been the same QB ever since he's been a rookie. 5th highest paid QB yet top 5 worst QB.
Carr looks satisfy for his performance after losing on a couple of games, "I have the highest QB rating so you can't blame me for the lost"
I'm tired of the Texans babying him and pampering him. It's starting to get old blaming the O-line.
Let's be real he has been the same QB ever since he's been a rookie. 5th highest paid QB yet top 5 worst QB.
Carr looks satisfy for his performance after losing on a couple of games, "I have the highest QB rating so you can't blame me for the lost"
TexansLucky13
53d Signal Batt
Yea.... I can see how getting benched after the first half can be mistaken as "pampering".
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Here is one folks talk about all the time--how much of various QB's yardage is made up of Yards After Catch. It would be more useful if they would do it as a % of passing yards.
JDizzle
I'm a dude
Then why does AJ lead the league in receptions? AJ and Moulds have the most receptions on the team so that is grossly overstated.
However, Carr's ypa isn't in the top 10 and AJ's ypc is not even 12 yards, which is not that good. The Titan game in particular, Sage averaged a full 2 yards more per attempt than Carr with 4 more attempts. I think it's a bit much to say he does nothing but dump it off but I think we could all agree that Carr doesn't thrive downfield.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
fix your link brutha, but good reading nonetheless
Roughnecks
Waterboy
Sorry yes DC had a bad game but I would rather coach Kubes work with him to be better than have Sage as our QB of the future. Look at the games he screws up coach is all up in his face and I have not seen that till this year and I think pulling him might have opened his eyes. Either way having Sage as our QB will not work for ling and drafting a rookie to start next year just puts us back to starting over. Myself I would like DC to finish the season as our starter and go into next year with a full season of this system under his belt. I did not see this team making the playoffs and would have droped dead if they made it 500 at the end of the season I'm was looking towards next year for these guys to be in it not this year this year is a year of learning no matter how hard it is to watch.
R
real
Guest
Yards per attempt 2006:
Alex Smith------------------------6.8
Aaron Brooks----------------------4.9(LMAO)
Benjamin Roethlisberger------------7.5
Vince Young-----------------------5.3
Joey Harrington--------------------6.2
John Kitna-------------------------7.0
Matt Leinart-----------------------5.9
Marc Brunnell----------------------6.9
Career Avgerages for some retired players:
Troy Aikman------------------------7.0
Chris Chandler----------------------7.1
John Elway-------------------------7.1
Boomer Esiason---------------------7.3
Doug Flutie-------------------------6.8
Jeff George-------------------------7.0
Elvis Grbac--------------------------6.9
Dan Marino--------------------------7.3
Warren Moon-------------------------7.2
*Right now D.Carr is sitting at a 6.6 average for his career
Alex Smith------------------------6.8
Aaron Brooks----------------------4.9(LMAO)
Benjamin Roethlisberger------------7.5
Vince Young-----------------------5.3
Joey Harrington--------------------6.2
John Kitna-------------------------7.0
Matt Leinart-----------------------5.9
Marc Brunnell----------------------6.9
Career Avgerages for some retired players:
Troy Aikman------------------------7.0
Chris Chandler----------------------7.1
John Elway-------------------------7.1
Boomer Esiason---------------------7.3
Doug Flutie-------------------------6.8
Jeff George-------------------------7.0
Elvis Grbac--------------------------6.9
Dan Marino--------------------------7.3
Warren Moon-------------------------7.2
*Right now D.Carr is sitting at a 6.6 average for his career
Vinny
shiny happy fan
any time you mix in Jeff George with John Elway, Boomer Esiason, Dan Marino and John Elway, you got more evidence that stats are misleading in football.
playerhater
Practice Squad
David "Dump Pass" Carr, his QB rating and accuracy is misleading like one of the posters before me.
eriadoc
Texan-American
People can keep harping on the dink and dunk stuff, but prior to this game, Carr was averaging a bit over 7 yards per pass attempt. He's now averaging 6.89, which is tied with Tom Brady. Eli Manning has 7.18, Carson Palmer has 7.26, and Rivers has 7.31, for example. Manning has the most, from my cursory examination, with 8.02.
The offense calls for Carr to dink and dunk his way down the field and then get a couple long strikes a game. For the most part this season, he's done that. There are a lot of things for which to criticize Carr, but completion percentage is not one of them.
The offense calls for Carr to dink and dunk his way down the field and then get a couple long strikes a game. For the most part this season, he's done that. There are a lot of things for which to criticize Carr, but completion percentage is not one of them.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Classic...shows how misleading stats are. The QB's you listed throw the ball down field and challenge the defense with regularity, something Carr struggles with and was highlighted when Sage came in and made plays in the same exact offense...downfield. Challenging a defense in the seam or over the linebacker drops on a consistent basis opens up everything else in your offense. The QB's you listed win games with the same stats...but they get the ball up the field more often...there is a lesson there somewhere.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
R
real
Guest
Carr doesn't throw down the field as much as other QB's but that has nothing to do with his completion percentage....If you look at the stats Carr is about average when it comes to yards/attempt....
I wouldn't say he's about avg on passing plays, as his avg is close to guys who made a lot more attempts. THose guys also have a lot more passing yards, and for the most part, more passing TDs than David.
The only QBs who have less attempts than David, are Plummer, Leftwhich, and Vick. Plummer & Leftwich may not be starting QBs in this league much longer, and we all know Vick is not a QB.
You can add Pennington to that list for the only guys with less TDs than David as well.
eriadoc
Texan-American
That's really all I was saying (Vinny). Put another way, Carr averages about 9.8 yards per completion, while most other QBs are in the 11.5 range.
kcwilson
Rookie
Carr is simply executing what the offense is designed to do... short accurate passing. No single stat exists on its own merit, it has to be relative to other categories like YPA, RUn after the catch, and so on.
So whether his completion % is misleading or not, he is executing what is being asked of him. I think he could take a shot or two more downfield per game, but as the Texans have shown, if they are not third and short, then they have a hard time picking up first downs.
Jacksonville game had the down field spread... and Rosenfels got to spread it after the Texans were getting their ***** handed to them. Never heard anyone complain that Rosenfels was playing from way behind and got the soft defense like Carr did against Indy.
I support Carr and expect him to come out and execute each week, especially this week... it will show what kind of character and leadership he has in the locker room.
R
real
Guest
I'm not sure what attempts and TD's have to do with this discussion...
I never said David threw the ball down the field a lot...I never even said he was a good QB...
Someone said his completion percentage was skewed because most of his completions are dinks and dunks....
Well he is gaining about average yardage on his completions...........If we are talking about completion percentage, and HOW/WHY he is completing those passes..........incomplete passes, attempts, and TD's don't have anything to do with this
How about his completion percentage is higher this year because he actually got a little better...We actually got a coach that understands his strengths and plays to them.....How about that ?