mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
Ah, but Ron Mexico takes up $110 million. :bananasplit:Kaiser Toro said:
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Mario v Reggie
- Thread starter Texan Ned
- Start date
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
texan279 said:
If Mario gets a sack every other game, he'll end up with 8. Will that be OK?
I don't think Peppers had a sack until the 3rd or 4th game his rookie year and ended up with... what... 12?
And with Mario, it's not even about the number of sacks he gets. It's about the amount of chaos he creates and if he can create pressure or sacks for other players.
Let's say that Mario gets 6.5 sacks this year. Will that make him a bust? I mean... Bruce Smith was the 1st pick overall in 1985 and all he got was 6.5 sacks his rookie year and he was a "sack specialist". Was he a bust? He had 13 in his second year and I think he did OK after that.
Personally, I'm willing to give Mario a couple of years to develop. And before anyone says that they want a #1 overall pick to contribute immediately, there have been lots of #1 overalls who have taken some time to develop. Although most haven't (as in ever developed). (On a scary note, there are only 12 guys in the HOF that were drafted #1 overall.)
This has probably been mentioned, but Reggie did it against the Browns. We were playing a far superior team in the Eagles. They are a playoff contender with a stout defense and an experienced offensive line. There is another thread discussing rookie of the week candidates. Of course Reggie is leading in a landslide because of all the hype, but I think we should be happy to have a second round pick in the running...that's my 2 cents.
Texan Ned said:
I seriously doubt Zach Thomas led his team in sacks his first year. & he's definitely an impact player. Always has been from day one. He recorded 120 tackles & 2 sacks all year.
As a middle linebacker in the system he played in, he wasn't supposed to get a lot of sacks...... LT obviously was.
Darren Howard recorded 36 tackles(15 assists) & 11 sacks his rookie year with the Saints....... that's a definite impact player, and Mario is on track to hit those kinds of numbers.
Julius Peppers totalled 28 tackles & 12 sacks his rookie year. 0 tackles, 1 assist, 0 sacks in his first game against the Baltimore Ravens of 2002. So far, Mario is on track to match the rookie stats of this impact player.
Julius Peppers had 3 sacks against Detroit(rookie QB Joey Harrington, & Detroit has never been known for their offensive line), 3 sacks against Dallas(Dave Campo & who knows who at QB),
Those six are half his total.....
1 sack against Clevland, 1 sack against NewOrleans, poor teams with known QB protection problems that go back to the Reagan years.......
2 sacks in one game against Tampa Bay, 1 sack in the other game against Tampa Bay, & 1 sack against Michael Vick...... those might have been against decent offensive lines, since those were playoff teams, but I can't remember.
the point is, Demeco's 9 tackles don't compare directly to Mario's "impact" on the game. For all we know, Demeco may have only gotten 4 tackles had Mario not been there.
texan279
Hall of Fame
The Pencil Neck said:
Read the full post where you quoted me from, all I was pointing out was what LT did his rookie season because someone said "LT wasn't LT his rookie season". I am not trying to dog Mario or compare him to LT. Did I say or imply Mario would be a bust in that post? No. And not that it really matters but Peppers in his second NFL game had 5 tackles, 3 sacks, one forced fumble, and one pass defended. Now THAT is wreaking havoc. And as far as creating pressure or chaos, no one on the defensive line did any of that from what I saw of the game but I am not stressing over it like some around here, yet. It's like some people expected Kubiak to turn a miracle overnight.
cbnjwill said:
You are absolutely right, I did pick and choose, and I did not include certain people that would make Mario look bad(Merriman is not one of them, as he is a LB in a 3-4), and I didn't use anyone to make Reggie look good.
We're talking about impact.... Alexander didn't make an impact, Larry Johnson didn't make an impact Sunday. Why should I include them?? I'm mentioning Runningbacks who made an impact on the game, and comparing them to Reggie Bush.......
I'm also comparing impact DEs, who had comparable stats to Mario's, and asking if they made an impact on their teams. You saw Darren Howard get handled by Spencer for 60 minutes....... is he a scrub?? did he make an impact?? is he going to be benched in favor of one of the second string DEs who did make a sack??
Is Michael Strahan not an impact DE?? is he not one of the best in the game??
My point is not that Mario is a better pick than Reggie, but that Mario did exactly what we thought he would, and exactly what we brought him in for. And sure as sh1t, we knew fans would be crying if he didn't get a sack, when none of the premier DEs get a sack everygame.
R
real
Guest
Why does it even have to be Reggie vs. Mario...that in itself is ridiculous....I like both of them, and I think both of them were put in ideal situations...Mario is in a perfect spot because he is raw, and fresh....He fits in perfectly with the rest of the raw and fresh Texans...In N.O Mario would have been expected to be the star of their defense from jump street...In houston he doesn't have to be....I think Mario would have suffered in New Orleans...The coaches in Houston seem to be making the right choices for all of our players to succeed...Bush is in the perfect position because He doesn't have to be a number one back or reciever because of duece and horn...He can be used like he was at USC, and be effective....I like both of these guys and wish both a long and successful career...I like football and I like to see great athletes perform....Please stop hating on RB, and please stop Hating on Mario...Both of these players haven't done anything short of what they were expected to do...GIVE...IT...A...REST
Barkley said:
Mario, Babin, & TJ were all in the backfield, especially to start the 4th Qtr....... McNabb had happy feet, sacked himself, and missed many a reciever. & The Eagles had to settle for a 42 yard field goal.
After watching the game a second time, I realized it wasn't our DL that was ineffective, because they were doing their job. All this crap about McNabb having all day, isn't true.......... he'd either throw the ball under 2 seconds, or he'd scramble...
Our LBs were our biggest liability, including Demeco......... Look at the play calling...... they run up the middle, run up the middle, for little or no gain, suck our LBs inside, then pop a screen for a 13 yard gain, or a 34 yard touchdown. Same thing with the big runs.... middle, middle, then start middle, bounce it to the outside. for a big gain...... then there was the play action fake that turned into a reverse fake........ everybody bit on the reverse, and WB goes 34 yards to the endzone.
Our DL, and our #1 overall pick had a great game, and did exactly what we wanted them to do. Our DBs & LBs can't cover for 2.8 seconds, that's why we lost.
Blake
MMQB
I dont like threads that focus on second guessing ourselves.
Lets focus on players that are on the team. Let ESPN fill you in on Reggie.
But while we are on Reggie, will everyone (ESPN) stop using his return yards as yards. That has always bothered me since people gave him so much credit for his 500 yards vs. frenso state. Not trying to say he had a bad game. Just that return yards are cheap.
Lets focus on players that are on the team. Let ESPN fill you in on Reggie.
But while we are on Reggie, will everyone (ESPN) stop using his return yards as yards. That has always bothered me since people gave him so much credit for his 500 yards vs. frenso state. Not trying to say he had a bad game. Just that return yards are cheap.
R
real
Guest
Super Mario said:
stop hating...
R
real
Guest
Super Mario said:
no. he isn't untouchable..but how about waiting till he actually does something wrong before we criticize him...
R
real
Guest
Super Mario said:
Super Mario said:
So Reggie is the only player that they've ever used "total yards" for? You were clearly trying to discredit Reggie because if the "lumping stats" is what truly makes you mad, you wouldn't have waited until they started lumping Reggies...just another pathetic attempt to discredit him...Don't be a wimp and beat around the bush...ha ha..get it BUSH....just admit that you don't like Reggie...you think he sucks....and you think people lump his stats to make him look better...just be honest...
Goldeagle
Veteran
xtruroyaltyx said:
Who else have they used it for? Marshal Faulk? Ismael?
No one has got every single yard lumped into his stats. Heck, they probaly lump in his walk to the dressing room at halftime.
As I said, Rudi Johnson will put up 160 just running against the Browns and I did not see Bushs name in the top list for total yards from Scrimmage. Personally, Westbrook deserves 10x more credit than Bush gets.
And I dont hate Bush, just hate his hype machine
Steersnqueers
Practice Squad
Goldeagle said:
Bush is not the lead rusher for the saints and might never be.. R. Johnson is for the Bengals.
Reggie had 14 carries for 61 yards, Deuce had 22 carries for 90 yards and Johnson had 28 carries for 96 yards.
(granted the saints played the browns and not the chiefs, but going off of last years defensive rankings and not one game of this year.. Cle was ranked 16 while KC was ranked 26 - http://www.coachescorner.com/n_input/nnweb/scores/header_nfl_def_rank.htm)
I dont believe the saints plan on using Reggie anytime soon as a number one back. Not sure how you can compare the two?
As far as comparing Mario to Reggie.. as others have said.. thats going to be tough to measure. However.. we can take a look at rookie season for some of the past greats. Just very important to keep in mind how these backs were used.. were they the #1 RB or were they used as Reggie is? If Reggie surpasses these guys in his rookie year.. while not being the top back for the saints, what can we conclude for his first year? (merely speculation.. not necessarily lookin for an answer but please do share an opinion if you have one)
Gale Sayers
14 Games: 166 Attempts, 867 Yards, 5.2 YPC, 14 TD
29 Receptions, 507 Yards, 17.5 YPC, 6 TD
Barry Sanders
15 Games: 280 Attempts, 1470 Yards, 5.2 YPC, 14 TD
24 Receptions, 282 Yards, 11.8 YPC, 0 TD
Walter Payton
13 Games: 196 Attempts, 679 Yards, 3.5 YPC, 7 TD
33 Receptions, 213 Yards, 6.5 YPC, 0 TD
Emmitt Smith
16 Games: 241 Attempts, 937 Yards, 3.9 YPC, 11 TD
24 Receptions, 228 Yards, 9.5 YPC, 0 TD
Jim Brown
12 Games: 202 Attempts, 942 Yards, 4.7 YPC, 9 TD
16 Receptions, 55 Yards, 3.4 YPC, 1 TD
O.J. Simpson
13 Games: 181 Attempts, 697 Yards, 3.9 YPC, 2 TD
30 Receptions, 343 Yards, 11.4 YPC, 3 TD
And, for the sake of comparison to a modern day player, here are LaDainian Tomlinson 's and Caddy's stats in their first year:
LT:
16 Games: 339 Attempts, 1236 Yards, 3.6 YPC, 10 TD
59 Receptions, 367 Yards, 6.2 YPC, 0 TD
Caddy:
14 Games, 290 Attempts, 1178 Yards, 4.1 YPC, 6 TD
20 Receptions, 81 Yards, 4.0 YPC, 0 TD
TexansLucky13
53d Signal Batt
Barkley said:
Only when you close your eyes, buster.
underdog65
Waterboy
I saw Mario applying pressure all day. He still gets burned when running plays come his way but atleast I didn't see him standing around like last week. With more time, he will learn when to stay at home and when to rush the passer. He definitely showed progress from last week. I guess that is all you can ask from him. Constant improvement. So far in New Orleans it appears that DM is the good running back. Reggie dances too much.
Numbskull
Noob
Lets compare the seasons of Reggie Bush and Mario Williams.
Reggie Bush
Splitting time with Deuce McAllister.
21 Carries - 72 yard, 3.4 yard average, 0 TDs
15 Receptions - 120 yards, 8 yard average, 0 TDs
Saints Offense - Sure to be in the top 10, after racking up 706 yards in 2 games.
Saints 2-0 and 1st place in the NFC South
Mario Williams
In on every play at DE and on occassion at DT.
5 Tackles. 4 Solo, 1 Assist. 0 Sacks
Texans Defense Ranked 32nd in the NFL giving up 956 yards in 2 games. PATHETIC!!!
Texans 0-2 and looking to be in the hunt to blow the #1 pick again this year.
Yep. The Texans really did good on that one! Didn't Charlie Casserly rationalize the MW pick by saying that Reggie Bush couldn't stop Peyton Manning? Well, its obvious that Mario couldn't either: 26/38 - 400 yards and 3 TDs.
Reggie Bush
Splitting time with Deuce McAllister.
21 Carries - 72 yard, 3.4 yard average, 0 TDs
15 Receptions - 120 yards, 8 yard average, 0 TDs
Saints Offense - Sure to be in the top 10, after racking up 706 yards in 2 games.
Saints 2-0 and 1st place in the NFC South
Mario Williams
In on every play at DE and on occassion at DT.
5 Tackles. 4 Solo, 1 Assist. 0 Sacks
Texans Defense Ranked 32nd in the NFL giving up 956 yards in 2 games. PATHETIC!!!
Texans 0-2 and looking to be in the hunt to blow the #1 pick again this year.
Yep. The Texans really did good on that one! Didn't Charlie Casserly rationalize the MW pick by saying that Reggie Bush couldn't stop Peyton Manning? Well, its obvious that Mario couldn't either: 26/38 - 400 yards and 3 TDs.
underdog65
Waterboy
That's right. The saints have played the Browns which s**k, and today the Packers who got blown out last week by the Bears. He sure looks good against the bottom dwellers in the league. I bet he would get better numbers playing against us right now too. Like I said, Deuce is the better back and it has been shown on the last two games the Saints have played.
coachdent
Waterboy
Numbskull said:
3.4 yards per carry in the NFL is bad. 8 yards a catch is bad. The Saints success has been more about Drew Brees than it has Reggie Bush. Reggie is a great player, but using his stats is not the angle you need to take. They are below average.
I've got news for you too. Reggie would not have stopped 26-for-38 either.
Mario looked better, but not a finished product. Disappointed with the lack of explosiveness. I thought he would be far more explosive off the edge. Instead, he seems to be in a shell at times and just keeping his responsibility. Other times he is easily influenced up the field. He was caught several times today on counters.
RB vs Mario is a tired, useless arguement. I want the Texans to get better. They didn't today.
The one positive is that Carr is making better decisions with the ball. Hopefully he will be able to survive the season. Losing Spencer hurts.
Brandon420tx
Flounder
Brandon420tx said:
Rinse and repeat.
Numbskull
Noob
There is no discussion....
We shouldn't be discussing stats because Reggie Bush is easily the better player and the one yall should have picked... Yall are terrible on both sides of the ball and the only reason yall are not near the bottom of the league once again in offense is because David Carr threw 3 garbage time touchdowns in the 4th quarter against 2nd and 3rd string defense when you were down by 27 points.
Reggie Bush has shown up and moved the chains each game.. something like 8-9 first down runs and catches in two games... Mario.. 4 solo, 1 assist... he hasn't been a presence or a force.. he's been nothing... he has not changed any game whatsoever.. the defense is still god awful and ranked 32nd in the league. If Casserly really wanted a player to change your defense, he should have drafted AJ Hawk who helped shut down the Saints run game today. Atleast AJ has a pulse and doesn't take plays off.
Its not yalls fault that Charlie Casserly is a complete dumbarse, but yall are looking even dumber by trying to defend it by bashing on Reggie.
The only stat that matters:
New Orleans Saints: 2-0
Houston Texans: 0-2
We shouldn't be discussing stats because Reggie Bush is easily the better player and the one yall should have picked... Yall are terrible on both sides of the ball and the only reason yall are not near the bottom of the league once again in offense is because David Carr threw 3 garbage time touchdowns in the 4th quarter against 2nd and 3rd string defense when you were down by 27 points.
Reggie Bush has shown up and moved the chains each game.. something like 8-9 first down runs and catches in two games... Mario.. 4 solo, 1 assist... he hasn't been a presence or a force.. he's been nothing... he has not changed any game whatsoever.. the defense is still god awful and ranked 32nd in the league. If Casserly really wanted a player to change your defense, he should have drafted AJ Hawk who helped shut down the Saints run game today. Atleast AJ has a pulse and doesn't take plays off.
Its not yalls fault that Charlie Casserly is a complete dumbarse, but yall are looking even dumber by trying to defend it by bashing on Reggie.
The only stat that matters:
New Orleans Saints: 2-0
Houston Texans: 0-2
kfranco_utexas
Waterboy
Good one battle red. 
texplayer2
Waterboy
coachdent said:
The fact is that with Bush in New Orleans it takes the pressure off Brees and puts it on Bush. Bush is the one who will get the accolades or the blame. He is the face of the team and it allows the other personnel on the team to focus on being good. Carr has no such protection. If we lose(a lot) he will be blamed, weather it is his fault or not. Mario will be given years to prove he was the right pick (at least by the FO).
texplayer2 said:
and it's hard to blame him when he has QB ratings over a hundred in our two losses........ David's handling the pressure just fine, & doesn't need anyone helping with "pressure"
Wolf
100% Texan
I said some time last spring that I think eventually Reggie will be a full-time receiver. He's built like one and running in the NFL these days is about patience, hitting the hole hard, and getting that extra yard or two after contact. LaDanian Tomlinson is the prototype... the breakaway speed gets him on SportsCenter, but the hard work and tough running will get him into Canton.
So if people wanted Gale Sayers, they'll be disappointed, but he's a lethal slot receiver.
BTW, I'm really sick of this total yards non-sense... if that's the metric, guys like Koren Robinson and Wes Welker would be superstars. Return yards are free yards, you could get 6 kick returns at 20 yards per, rack up 120 yards and have done nothing but benefit from a bad defense.
All that being said, Reggie is a great fit in NO, with Colston posting up in the red zone, McAlister grinding D's, Brees being efficient, and Horn doing the #1/possession thing. Reggie would have not been the answer for this team. The guy is an excellent slot receiver/third down back/ return man.
So if people wanted Gale Sayers, they'll be disappointed, but he's a lethal slot receiver.
BTW, I'm really sick of this total yards non-sense... if that's the metric, guys like Koren Robinson and Wes Welker would be superstars. Return yards are free yards, you could get 6 kick returns at 20 yards per, rack up 120 yards and have done nothing but benefit from a bad defense.
All that being said, Reggie is a great fit in NO, with Colston posting up in the red zone, McAlister grinding D's, Brees being efficient, and Horn doing the #1/possession thing. Reggie would have not been the answer for this team. The guy is an excellent slot receiver/third down back/ return man.
That's a Texans site. What do you think they'd say? Mario has only shown the makings of a bust.
It's deeper than just that. First of all, the coaching staff is in love with Marques Colston and he's shown why they should be. Secondly, Stallworth has problems staying healthy, has problems catching the ball, and has a poor work ethic. He is a great guy and can be explosive at times no doubt. Also it wasn't so much that he was going to leave next year as much as the Saints weren't going to want to pay so much money to someone that hasn't lived up to his draft status. Furthermore A.J. Hawk has looked terrible thus far. The third rounder the Saints got for Stallworth and the so-so yet serviceable Simoneau is more than worth it. Nobody was saying Simoneau was a long-term solution...the trade was more about the draft pick. Bush signed a six year contract so nobody has to worry about him going anywhere for a long time.
