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Nick Caserio - New GM

Corrosion said:
They clear the deck and make the hard cuts which means next years team probably has similar results to last years in terms of W's and L's. But they'll do their best to give the appearance they are trying to win.
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I understand the AFC proved to be more competitive than I thought. But Tennessee managed to win 11 games (granted two were against us) with a crappy defense.

I hope Caserio can sell McNair a vision where we can be a competitive team even with the big cuts that need to be made.

We’ve got big money going to guys playing at replacement level.

If they win 8 or 9 games, whoopee... if they don’t well, we tried.

Cal talking about 2-10 in one score games is scary.
 
thunderkyss said:
I understand the AFC proved to be more competitive than I thought. But Tennessee managed to win 11 games (granted two were against us) with a crappy defense.
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Tennessee I really don't think is a good example. They have a 2000 yard horse in the backfield , a rock solid QB , a very good OL and some quality young pass catchers.

They can protect that defense to some extent.

The Texans have .... Watson.

I hope Caserio can sell McNair a vision where we can be a competitive team even with the big cuts that need to be made.

We’ve got big money going to guys playing at replacement level.
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Yeah , I hope he can convince him to make those deep cuts .... replacement level players making "Mid tier money" (7m-12m) isn't a recipe for a winner. Those guys have to go , the sooner the better.


Cal talking about 2-10 in one score games is scary.
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Yeah , we've been afraid of this for a while now .... getting the band back together.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
It doesn't.t in terms of his qualification, but he knows there is a leadership problem. and If someone is going to promise (wrongheadedly) give a 25-year-old with limited life experience a voice probably speaks directly to that leadership issue.
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I know we're arguing a moot point, but was Watson "promised" a say in hiring the GM, the HC or both?
The Texans have managed to turn a Texas-sized dumpster fire into a Chernobyl dumpster fire. At least I still have the "hometown" Browns to watch!! :bag:
 
DocBar said:
I know we're arguing a moot point, but was Watson "promised" a say in hiring the GM, the HC or both?
The Texans have managed to turn a Texas-sized dumpster fire into a Chernobyl dumpster fire. At least I still have the "hometown" Browns to watch!! :bag:
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That's really possible and we don't directly know what Watson is actually thinking.
 
Daboll/Esterby/Caserio have the same agent its going to happen. The other guy represented by the same guy is the one people are ruling out which is Josh McDaniels.
 
DocBar said:
I know we're arguing a moot point, but was Watson "promised" a say in hiring the GM, the HC or both?
The Texans have managed to turn a Texas-sized dumpster fire into a Chernobyl dumpster fire. At least I still have the "hometown" Browns to watch!! :bag:
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We shouldn't be promising anyone sh*t if we won't follow through.
 
powda said:
We shouldn't be promising anyone sh*t if we won't follow through.
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So tell me if you promise your QB you will take their opinion under advisement and they say they want xyz as HC but you think ABC is a better HC candidate and you hire ABC does that mean you lied to your QB?
 
Worst case scenario, we finally rid ourselves of the Patriots' organization ... and hire the Patriots' organization. No wonder our preacher wasn't worried about his position, this looks to have been set up long ago - O'Brien out, Caserio in. I was actually looking forward to watching the Texans for the first time in years ... oh well. I'll still come around for some random drunk posts (everyone should have me on ignore by now).

As for Watson, the fault lies with Cal or whoever decided to use the parental "we'll see" response, letting Watson think he's able to give his opinion. When Watson approached the first time asking to represent some players, the response should've been "that's not how this works" and that's it. GM hiring is not in the players' ballpark, and should've been made clear right away. "When you reach Manning/Brady status ... you still don't get a say because they didn't either". Now, talking to the GM about potential coaches is more in line with what team captains are capable of and where Watson's voice is valued, even if they don't follow that opinion.
 
Last edited:
I think with DW4 status as big man on campus, no harm in listening, then giving him a heads up before the press knows on your selection and why so when his phone blows up and world spind around him he has had a bit of heads up. No, he should not expect to pick the GM or HC, albeit, the HC I would do more consultation for his thoughts, GM, just let him know the outcome
 
WOW

Mort:

Reports that Deshaun Watson is unhappy with the Texans are accurate after the team hired Nick Caserio as GM and did not interview Chiefs’ Eric Bieniemy as a head coach candidate, sources have confirmed. Watson has a new $156M contract but his concerns about the franchise’s insensitivity on social justice causes have been reinforced and a source close to the quarterback says he very well could push for a trade. One scenario for a landing spot is the Miami Dolphins, trading places with Tua T. You’re not gonna get anything but denials at this stage from both franchises but this is an offseason puzzle we may be trying to put together.

Schefter:

The other option at Deshaun Watson’s disposal in the opinion of people around the league would be this: withholding his services from the Houston Texans. That’s how angry he’s said to be. It’s only January, it’s just getting started, perhaps they can calm him down and talk to him but that is an option the Texans would not want to see. Deshaun could wind up withholding his services, threaten to retire or at least not go to Houston but this is an issue not going away.

Multiple people in the Texans organization, including but not limited to quarterback Deshaun Watson, wereupset with how Houston's search took a sudden and unexpected turn, hiring a man that Korn Ferry did not include on its list of candidates.

Watson is said to be furious at the Texans' direction,and others are as well, with some saying that there will be employees who wind up leaving the organizationduring the offseason.


https://twitter.com/x/status/1348299187968999424
 
thunderkyss said:
I’m thinking if Nick & Easterby are friends with Daboll they may have already called him up & know what they are going to do.
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I think it is either Daboll or McDaniels. Folks are comfortable and often go with what they know, creatures of their environment. That said, I don't see anything that suggest to me that Daboll screams head coach. To the contrary, Daboll is a 21 year journeyman coach who has spent most of his career staying 1 or 2 years at each stop. That's a lot of hip hopping for a perspective NFL head coach. If he was a real up and comer I don't think it would've taken him 21 years and done with a lot less hip hopping around.
 
Rich Schmidt said:
I think with DW4 status as big man on campus, no harm in listening, then giving him a heads up before the press knows on your selection and why so when his phone blows up and world spind around him he has had a bit of heads up. No, he should not expect to pick the GM or HC, albeit, the HC I would do more consultation for his thoughts, GM, just let him know the outcome
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Exactly. From everything that has come out, they told Deshaun they'd listen to his suggestion on who to interview. He wasn't going to make the hire and he knew that. The Texans tell him "yeah, we'll listen to your input" but then their actions showed they were the only team not to interview Eric Bieniemy (who was rumored to be the preferred choice of Watson's). It's say one thing, do the other. Then the search firm gives two finalists (both happen to be minority candidates) and then the team goes against the search firm to hire a white dude who wasn't even in the search firm's top 5. They don't tell Watson that this is the choice so he finds out just like all of us. And to make matters even worse, the guy no one trusts (see the SI article), Jack Easterby, has solidified his status with the organization to the extent that mass resignations appear likely. But hey, "culture, culture, culture". The culture in the organization is lying and backstabbing.

This franchise waited 15 years for a good QB and they've managed to ruin it. It is staggering incompetence. The Texans are the worst run team in professional sports and it isn't even close.
 
cameronkrazie86 said:
Exactly. From everything that has come out, they told Deshaun they'd listen to his suggestion on who to interview. He wasn't going to make the hire and he knew that. The Texans tell him "yeah, we'll listen to your input" but then their actions showed they were the only team not to interview Eric Bieniemy (who was rumored to be the preferred choice of Watson's). It's say one thing, do the other. Then the search firm gives two finalists (both happen to be minority candidates) and then the team goes against the search firm to hire a white dude who wasn't even in the search firm's top 5. They don't tell Watson that this is the choice so he finds out just like all of us. And to make matters even worse, the guy no one trusts (see the SI article), Jack Easterby, has solidified his status with the organization to the extent that mass resignations appear likely. But hey, "culture, culture, culture". The culture in the organization is lying and backstabbing.

This franchise waited 15 years for a good QB and they've managed to ruin it. It is staggering incompetence. The Texans are the worst run team in professional sports and it isn't even close.
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Knicks and cavs still exist
 
zshawn10 said:
WOW

Mort:

Reports that Deshaun Watson is unhappy with the Texans are accurate after the team hired Nick Caserio as GM and did not interview Chiefs’ Eric Bieniemy as a head coach candidate, sources have confirmed. Watson has a new $156M contract but his concerns about the franchise’s insensitivity on social justice causes have been reinforced and a source close to the quarterback says he very well could push for a trade. One scenario for a landing spot is the Miami Dolphins, trading places with Tua T. You’re not gonna get anything but denials at this stage from both franchises but this is an offseason puzzle we may be trying to put together.

Schefter:

The other option at Deshaun Watson’s disposal in the opinion of people around the league would be this: withholding his services from the Houston Texans. That’s how angry he’s said to be. It’s only January, it’s just getting started, perhaps they can calm him down and talk to him but that is an option the Texans would not want to see. Deshaun could wind up withholding his services, threaten to retire or at least not go to Houston but this is an issue not going away.

Multiple people in the Texans organization, including but not limited to quarterback Deshaun Watson, wereupset with how Houston's search took a sudden and unexpected turn, hiring a man that Korn Ferry did not include on its list of candidates.

Watson is said to be furious at the Texans' direction,and others are as well, with some saying that there will be employees who wind up leaving the organizationduring the offseason.


https://twitter.com/x/status/1348299187968999424
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Sounds like @steelbtexan & @SnakeEyes were right. Watson wanted minority GM & HC.
 
cameronkrazie86 said:
Exactly. From everything that has come out, they told Deshaun they'd listen to his suggestion on who to interview. He wasn't going to make the hire and he knew that. The Texans tell him "yeah, we'll listen to your input" but then their actions showed they were the only team not to interview Eric Bieniemy (who was rumored to be the preferred choice of Watson's). It's say one thing, do the other. Then the search firm gives two finalists (both happen to be minority candidates) and then the team goes against the search firm to hire a white dude who wasn't even in the search firm's top 5. They don't tell Watson that this is the choice so he finds out just like all of us. And to make matters even worse, the guy no one trusts (see the SI article), Jack Easterby, has solidified his status with the organization to the extent that mass resignations appear likely. But hey, "culture, culture, culture". The culture in the organization is lying and backstabbing.

This franchise waited 15 years for a good QB and they've managed to ruin it. It is staggering incompetence. The Texans are the worst run team in professional sports and it isn't even close.
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The irony of this all is the Texans may have averted all of this Watson brohaha if they just had interviewed Bienemy. They didn't have to hire him. All they had to do was expose Watson to why Bienemy is failing so badly in all of his interviews.
 
zshawn10 said:
WOW

Mort:

Reports that Deshaun Watson is unhappy with the Texans are accurate after the team hired Nick Caserio as GM and did not interview Chiefs’ Eric Bieniemy as a head coach candidate, sources have confirmed. Watson has a new $156M contract but his concerns about the franchise’s insensitivity on social justice causes have been reinforced and a source close to the quarterback says he very well could push for a trade. One scenario for a landing spot is the Miami Dolphins, trading places with Tua T. You’re not gonna get anything but denials at this stage from both franchises but this is an offseason puzzle we may be trying to put together.

Schefter:

The other option at Deshaun Watson’s disposal in the opinion of people around the league would be this: withholding his services from the Houston Texans. That’s how angry he’s said to be. It’s only January, it’s just getting started, perhaps they can calm him down and talk to him but that is an option the Texans would not want to see. Deshaun could wind up withholding his services, threaten to retire or at least not go to Houston but this is an issue not going away.

Multiple people in the Texans organization, including but not limited to quarterback Deshaun Watson, wereupset with how Houston's search took a sudden and unexpected turn, hiring a man that Korn Ferry did not include on its list of candidates.

Watson is said to be furious at the Texans' direction,and others are as well, with some saying that there will be employees who wind up leaving the organizationduring the offseason.


https://twitter.com/x/status/1348299187968999424
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What does this have to do with "Social Justice Causes" ?
 
cameronkrazie86 said:
This franchise waited 15 years for a good QB and they've managed to ruin it. It is staggering incompetence. The Texans are the worst run team in professional sports and it isn't even close.
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I don't agree with this.

It's not like we haven't had a black GM before. & black coaches have been prominent in our organization as well.

They decided to hire the guy they've wanted for 3 years. He just happens to not be black.

With the information we have now, I can't support Watson or the belief there's a problem with the way this organization is run.

Yes, there are problems with the way this organization is run, but not the one he is suggesting.
 
I don't know why the search firm didn't include Nick Caserio as a GM candidate. But, Caserio has far and away more credentials than Omar Khan or Louis Riddick to be a NFL GM.

It's still unclear if the Texans didn't want to interview Bieniemy, or that Bieniemy didn't want to be interviewed by the Texans.

Regardless, it's apparent that Jack Easterby still has influence in this organization. Despite his involvement in the multitude of failures over the past 2 years. That's a problem.
 
LOL this team is pathetic. I had hope that Mrs McNair was the boss lady and would be able to steer Cal towards ownership, but maybe it wasn't Bob McNair that Kraft made his puppet.
 
Lucky said:
I don't know why the search firm didn't include Nick Caserio as a GM candidate. But, Caserio has far and away more credentials than Omar Khan or Louis Riddick to be a NFL GM.

It's still unclear if the Texans didn't want to interview Bieniemy, or that Bieniemy didn't want to be interviewed by the Texans.

Regardless, it's apparent that Jack Easterby still has influence in this organization. Despite his involvement in the multitude of failures over the past 2 years. That's a problem.
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I think TK laid this theory out once already... but it makes sense to me. You can have a preferred candidate and still hire a search firm (I do this at work with recruiters).

I have a preferred guy (Nick) but I want due diligence, so I hire a search firm and tell them I have a guy - give me a list of your top candidates, I'll interview them and if I don't feel they are better than my preferred guy (Nick) then I'm going with my guy.

EDIT: having said all of that, the Easterby cult influence still concerns me...
 
Texansballer74 said:
Take back the money and send his ash packing. I’m getting sick and tired of these new age people.
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TB as much as you and I argue I can’t think of a single post of this forum I have ever agreed with more.

Watson is talented beyond believe but he is still getting paid millions of dollars to do what thousands do just for fun. Money, fame, women/men (whatever floats his boat) lining up for him and all this at 25? And you are going to pout because you didn’t get to pick your boss’s boss?

I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt till I hear it from his own lips but if this is true then he is not the player, or man, I thought he was and much as I love his talent, well no one is irreplaceable.
 
zshawn10 said:
WOW

Mort:

Reports that Deshaun Watson is unhappy with the Texans are accurate after the team hired Nick Caserio as GM and did not interview Chiefs’ Eric Bieniemy as a head coach candidate, sources have confirmed. Watson has a new $156M contract but his concerns about the franchise’s insensitivity on social justice causes have been reinforced and a source close to the quarterback says he very well could push for a trade. One scenario for a landing spot is the Miami Dolphins, trading places with Tua T. You’re not gonna get anything but denials at this stage from both franchises but this is an offseason puzzle we may be trying to put together.

Schefter:

The other option at Deshaun Watson’s disposal in the opinion of people around the league would be this: withholding his services from the Houston Texans. That’s how angry he’s said to be. It’s only January, it’s just getting started, perhaps they can calm him down and talk to him but that is an option the Texans would not want to see. Deshaun could wind up withholding his services, threaten to retire or at least not go to Houston but this is an issue not going away.

Multiple people in the Texans organization, including but not limited to quarterback Deshaun Watson, wereupset with how Houston's search took a sudden and unexpected turn, hiring a man that Korn Ferry did not include on its list of candidates.

Watson is said to be furious at the Texans' direction,and others are as well, with some saying that there will be employees who wind up leaving the organizationduring the offseason.


https://twitter.com/x/status/1348299187968999424
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if his unhappiness extends to them not hiring a minority candidate....my tune towards him changes drastically honestly. The goal should be to hire the best candidate whether that person is a minority or not shouldn’t matter.

& at that point his decision-making comes into play for me. I mean why would you give up all your leverage by reupping with the team last year when all this nonsense began? If you really wanna play for a minority......or someone else, it would’ve been easier to force your way out without the team handing you 156 million 1st...Now, any team willing to trade for him is gonna have to absorb his massive contract & give us a kings ransom...which is a tall order....Otherwise, you’re just stuck.

Still think there’s not a whole lot to this, & I think it’s being fanned by the media b/c it really hasn’t come out of DW4’s mouth...most of this reporting is coming 2nd & 3rd hand. The other reason it’s being fanned is to force Cal and the FO to change their behavior more so than him actually wanting out. ....

aside from that, mass resignations might not be the worst thing for the Texans FO at this point.

time will tell though.
 
Mr teX said:
if his unhappiness extends to them not hiring a minority candidate....my tune towards him changes drastically honestly. The goal should be to hire the best candidate whether that person is a minority or not shouldn’t matter.

& at that point his decision-making comes into play for me. I mean why would you give up all your leverage by reupping with the team last year when all this nonsense began? If you really wanna play for a minority......or someone else, it would’ve been easier to force your way out without the team handing you 156 million 1st...Now, any team willing to trade for him is gonna have to absorb his massive contract & give us a kings ransom...which is a tall order....Otherwise, you’re just stuck.

Still think there’s not a whole lot to this, & I think it’s being fanned by the media b/c it really hasn’t come out of DW4’s mouth...most of this reporting is coming 2nd & 3rd hand. The other reason it’s being fanned is to force Cal and the FO to change their behavior more so than him actually wanting out. ....

time will tell though.
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I have no doubt Watson is probably irritated with our front office for a multitude of reasons. Our owners have had a history of questionable race-related issues before Watson signed his new deal. Either he is stupid or they are overblown by the media. He had no pressure to sign his deal, but he did anyway.

I think Watson is frustrated with our losing team, something he is not accustomed to. I think he feels misled on how much input he would have with the new direction of the team. I also think he feels like Cal knew who he wanted for GM and wasted Watson's time pretending he didn't. Bosses do stupid things sometimes and employees get frustrated. How they mend this fence going forward is the key. Can Caserio give Watson the olive branch needed and will they listen to his concerns on HC. (Not necessarily hire whoever he wants)
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1348340349178159104


The hiring of Nick Caserio to be the team’s new General Manager lit the fuse on a cherry bomb of dysfunction for the Texans, reinforcing the perception/reality that executive V.P. of football operations Jack Easterby is Littlefinger (if you’re a GOT fan) or Gríma Wormtongue (if LOTR is your bag).

The Texans paid Korn Ferry somewhere between $100,000 and $1 million (word is that it was $600,000) to line up finalists for the job. Mike Garafolo of NFL Media reported that the five selected by Korn Ferry were Texans director of player personnel Matt Bazirgan, Seahawks V.P. of player personnel Trent Kirchner, Steelers V.P. of football and business administration Omar Khan, Louis Riddick, and Ravens director of football research Scott Cohen.

Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that Khan would have gotten the job, if the Texans hadn’t unexpectedly gone off the board to hire Caserio. (Schefter also mentions that his ESPN colleague Louis Riddick was the next choice after Khan, possibly for internal peacekeeping purposes.)

Schefter adds that “multiple people” within the organization, including quarterback Deshaun Watson, were upset by the decision to ignore Korn Ferry’s work and to hire Caserio. Team president Jamey Rootes, though not mentioned by name in Schefter’s story, also is believed to be extremely upset that the work done by Korn Ferry, with Rootes’ involvement, was thrown overboard. Some believe that it’s just a matter of time before Rootes leaves the Texans; at least one person believes that Rootes already has tried to resign, but that Rootes was persuaded to wait in order to avoid further reinforcement of the perception/reality of disarray within the franchise.

Frankly, the disarray traces exclusively to Easterby. He was losing power and influence. Some believed he could end up being fired. The prevailing story in league circles is that, as the team was closing in on hiring one of the Korn Ferry finalists, Easterby went to owner Cal McNair’s house and talked him into hiring Caserio.

Another source said that agent Bob LaMonte, who represents both Easterby and Caserio, made a well-timed phone call to McNair, explaining that Caserio was poised to become the G.M. of the Panthers, and that Caserio would take Easterby with him. (It doesn’t matter if it was true that Caserio was going to the Panthers; what matters is whether McNair believed it.)
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Texian said:
I think it is either Daboll or McDaniels. Folks are comfortable and often go with what they know, creatures of their environment. That said, I don't see anything that suggest to me that Daboll screams head coach. To the contrary, Daboll is a 21 year journeyman coach who has spent most of his career staying 1 or 2 years at each stop. That's a lot of hip hopping for a perspective NFL head coach. If he was a real up and comer I don't think it would've taken him 21 years and done with a lot less hip hopping around.
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Are you only counting seasons as OC or are you ignoring the 11 years (two separate stints) Daboll spent with NE as an assistant coach? Regardless, he usually lasted as long as the HC he was working for when not in NE. Not exactly a ringing endorsement but not worthy of utter condemnation either. The work he's done in Buffalo makes him more worthy of an interview than Bienemey, imo. Sean McDermott is a defensive guy while Andy Reid is, well, Andy Reid. Maybe Buffalo caught lightning in a bottle in 2020, but they looked pretty good on offense to me.
 
amazing80 said:
I have no doubt Watson is probably irritated with our front office for a multitude of reasons. Our owners have had a history of questionable race-related issues before Watson signed his new deal. Either he is stupid or they are overblown by the media. He had no pressure to sign his deal, but he did anyway.

I think Watson is frustrated with our losing team, something he is not accustomed to. I think he feels misled on how much input he would have with the new direction of the team. I also think he feels like Cal knew who he wanted for GM and wasted Watson's time pretending he didn't. Bosses do stupid things sometimes and employees get frustrated. How they mend this fence going forward is the key. Can Caserio give Watson the olive branch needed and will they listen to his concerns on HC. (Not necessarily hire whoever he wants)
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to be honest, I don’t even think it’s that I just think it’s a patently silly move on DW4’s part to reup with the Texans when all of unhappiness supposedly started when Nuk was traded b/c at that point he hadn’t signed his deal yet.

he could’ve just did the wait& see thing and AT WORST, he could’ve did what DB did and sat out for at the most 7 weeks & forced a trade.

the only sense it makes on his side is that he just wanted to go ahead & get paid...but in doing that you knew what you were signing up for.
 
Mr teX said:
if his unhappiness extends to them not hiring a minority candidate....my tune towards him changes drastically honestly. The goal should be to hire the best candidate whether that person is a minority or not shouldn’t matter.

& at that point his decision-making comes into play for me. I mean why would you give up all your leverage by reupping with the team last year when all this nonsense began? If you really wanna play for a minority......or someone else, it would’ve been easier to force your way out without the team handing you 156 million 1st...Now, any team willing to trade for him is gonna have to absorb his massive contract & give us a kings ransom...which is a tall order....Otherwise, you’re just stuck.

Still think there’s not a whole lot to this, & I think it’s being fanned by the media b/c it really hasn’t come out of DW4’s mouth...most of this reporting is coming 2nd & 3rd hand. The other reason it’s being fanned is to force Cal and the FO to change their behavior more so than him actually wanting out. ....

aside from that, mass resignations might not be the worst thing for the Texans FO at this point.

time will tell though.
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Changing Cal's behavior? I dont get this at all?

Obviously and rightfully Cal's going to hire who he wants to hire. He hired Caserio to lead his franchise apparently against DW4's wishes. Do you think all of the sudden he's not going to go with Caserio over DW4 when is comes decision making? What the hell does this have to do with Cal's behavior.
 
Overall,
ArlingtonTexan said:
I read profootballtalk more than most here, and honestly think that Florio's continued attack on Easterby sounds "more to the story" personal. Nobody really cared one way or the other (significantly) when he came out swinging and that was follow by non-Florio negative article (SI I think).
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and here is more spewage which ultimately is an attack on Easterby

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Report: Texans were poised to hire Omar Khan as G.M.

A year after the Texans were making headlines during the first week of the playoffs because they were, you know, playing, they're making even more headlines this year by, you know, not playing.
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

If nothing else the Texans have a mole in their organization who keeps feeding the troll. That person is the one doing more damage to the organization than motivational speaker or paster or executive vp Easterby is...imo of course.
 
zshawn10 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1348340349178159104

Another source said that agent Bob LaMonte, who represents both Easterby and Caserio, made a well-timed phone call to McNair, explaining that Caserio was poised to become the G.M. of the Panthers, and that Caserio would take Easterby with him. (It doesn’t matter if it was true that Caserio was going to the Panthers; what matters is whether McNair believed it.)
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Interesting. Hard to believe. McClain said McNair & Easterby went to get Caserio wined & dined him that night. Interviewed him the next morning over 3 hours.

Caserio then returned to his hotel & interviewed with the Panthers over Zoom.

I believe McNair made up his mind when he told his pilot to get the jet ready. Not after Caserio's zoom with Carolina
 
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