Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

2019 Texans free agency

Porky said:
Another blue light special. Oh look, this time they put the house brand of peanut butter on sale in aisle 2.

If Jim Crane owned this team, Jeff Luhnow was the GM and AJ Hinch the HC - this team would be a SB contender.

Yes, I know they are baseball people, but Luhnow/Hinch is arguably the best GM/Manager combo in baseball. So I am comparing their relative spots in their respective sport.

The trio of Crane/Luhnow/Hunch is almost inargaubly top 5 in their sport. Meanwhile, I'd argue that the trio of Cal/Gaine/BOB is bottom 5 or close to it. At least bottom 10.

And at the end of the day, that's why the Astros are WS winners and will be WS contenders again this year, and why the Texans are forever stuck in mediocrity and won't sniff a SB anytime soon even with a stud at QB.

Wasting talent seems to be the modus operandi on Fannin.
Click to expand...

The Texans front office is nowhere comparable to that of the Astros and rockets. Ownership has never cared to build an fo like that.

But also, the Astros and rockets rarely, if ever, overpay. That's why they can stay consistently good.
 
JB said:
Don't act like the Astros and Rockets have always been good. Houston waited more than 16 years for them to deliver
Click to expand...

The difference in the Astros and the way they're run and the Texans and the way they are run is Crane had a plan and excuted the plan. Go with young guys take your lumps draft well with high picks. Save $$$$ and within 5 yrs when the young guys are ready to win a championship spend the $$$$ and give the team/city that badly needed an uplift its best chance to win a championship.

What's Cletus plan?
 
steelbtexan said:
The difference in the Astros and the way they're run and the Texans and the way they are run is Crane had a plan and excuted the plan. Go with young guys take your lumps draft well with high picks. Save $$$$ and within 5 yrs when the young guys are ready to win a championship spend the $$$$ and give the team/city that badly needed an uplift its best chance to win a championship.

What's Cletus plan?
Click to expand...

They all had plans. Everyone does. Most don't work out. Only 5 teams from the AFC have won a SB during the Texans' existence. Everyone had plans.
 
Porky said:
Another blue light special. Oh look, this time they put the house brand of peanut butter on sale in aisle 2.

If Jim Crane owned this team, Jeff Luhnow was the GM and AJ Hinch the HC - this team would be a SB contender.

Yes, I know they are baseball people, but Luhnow/Hinch is arguably the best GM/Manager combo in baseball. So I am comparing their relative spots in their respective sport.

The trio of Crane/Luhnow/Hunch is almost inargaubly top 5 in their sport. Meanwhile, I'd argue that the trio of Cal/Gaine/BOB is bottom 5 or close to it. At least bottom 10.

And at the end of the day, that's why the Astros are WS winners and will be WS contenders again this year, and why the Texans are forever stuck in mediocrity and won't sniff a SB anytime soon even with a stud at QB.

Wasting talent seems to be the modus operandi on Fannin.
Click to expand...

So are we just forgetting that not only did the Astros have back to back losing seasons, with a few 100 loss seasons, for years but that they actually planned that because they wanted the high draft picks? I love the Astros to but lets not revise history, again, and claim that we were all on board and understanding of them losing year after year because we knew 2017 would be the year we won. Also the Astros have been around what, 60 years with most of that not even being close to WS contenders and the Texans have been around 16 years with 6 winning seasons, 2 8-8 seasons and 8 losing seasons, that's actually pretty good for a team less than 20 years old.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Yes the Rockets and Astros took a hot minute JB. The difference is both of those franchises are very competitive. They made big time moves to get them to the level they are at currently. They have GM's who knows exactly what their prospective teams wants. Neither are yes men to their coaches.
Click to expand...

Texans have made big time moves to but the difference is those moves didn't work out. If the Blunder of Oz had been the QB we hoped he would be and if Miller had been able to be the RB we saw in Miami then those would have been seen as brilliant moves, they actually were considered good at the time. Your comment about GMs knowing what the team wants but not being yes men makes absolutely no sense. You don't think those GMs do everything they can to get the players the coaches want?

Hell, it was Hinch that wanted Verlander even though he was actually having a bad year that year Darvish, who was considered about the best on the market, was also available. If the Astros hadn't won, in large part due to Darvish cracking like an egg under pressure, everyone would have been talking about how stupid they were to go for Verlander when they could have gotten the pitcher that beat them.

Now you can say that Hinch is just a better coach and better at evaluating talent and that would be a fair statement but lets not pretend like the Rockets and Astros have Kevin Costner style GMs that tell the coaches to coach the players they give them. Ultimately its the coaches that have to make the players work in the system so it would be stupid for a GM, of any team, to always just draft or sign the players they want with no input from that coach and then tell them to make it work.
 
maverick512000 said:
Texans have made big time moves to but the difference is those moves didn't work out. If the Blunder of Oz had been the QB we hoped he would be and if Miller had been able to be the RB we saw in Miami then those would have been seen as brilliant moves, they actually were considered good at the time. Your comment about GMs knowing what the team wants but not being yes men makes absolutely no sense. You don't think those GMs do everything they can to get the players the coaches want?

Hell, it was Hinch that wanted Verlander even though he was actually having a bad year that year Darvish, who was considered about the best on the market, was also available. If the Astros hadn't won, in large part due to Darvish cracking like an egg under pressure, everyone would have been talking about how stupid they were to go for Verlander when they could have gotten the pitcher that beat them.

Now you can say that Hinch is just a better coach and better at evaluating talent and that would be a fair statement but lets not pretend like the Rockets and Astros have Kevin Costner style GMs that tell the coaches to coach the players they give them. Ultimately its the coaches that have to make the players work in the system so it would be stupid for a GM, of any team, to always just draft or sign the players they want with no input from that coach and then tell them to make it work.
Click to expand...

Yes the Astros and rockets have gms who mainly make the decisions. Coaches get input of course but they have a strong GM model.

Not saying the Texans have to be that way. The Texans just need to have a real plan and make smarter decisions. Something more than height weight speed and coach better, John
 
Texansballer74 said:
Yes the Rockets and Astros took a hot minute JB. The difference is both of those franchises are very competitive. They made big time moves to get them to the level they are at currently. They have GM's who knows exactly what their prospective teams wants. Neither are yes men to their coaches.
Click to expand...

Yeah they are competitive NOW. How many abysmal seasons, how many coaches and GM's and owners did they have to go through to finally hit on a winning combination? Hell it wasn't long ago that fans wanted Morey run out of town on a rail. No one is saying the current regime is great, far from it, but at least give them a chance. Texans have had no depth since day one and they have truly done a remarkable job the last 4 years considering that. Give Gaine 3 years before you judge him. There is no instant gratification in the NFL
 
Last edited:
JB said:
Cal is in his first year. We really don't know yet. Hopefully he will change things up a bit
Click to expand...
Hey JB you know we all like SteelBs comments but the thing is he's not gonna be happy until the McNair family has gone thru the old mans fortune on free agents, left River Oaks for public housing, and is panhandling over on Telephone Road.
 
maverick512000 said:
So are we just forgetting that not only did the Astros have back to back losing seasons, with a few 100 loss seasons, for years but that they actually planned that because they wanted the high draft picks? I love the Astros to but lets not revise history, again, and claim that we were all on board and understanding of them losing year after year because we knew 2017 would be the year we won. Also the Astros have been around what, 60 years with most of that not even being close to WS contenders and the Texans have been around 16 years with 6 winning seasons, 2 8-8 seasons and 8 losing seasons, that's actually pretty good for a team less than 20 years old.
Click to expand...


Makes too much rational sense for the irrational.
 
Mr teX said:
Makes too much rational sense for the irrational.
Click to expand...

Now we know why old time poster such as Texan Bill/Runner/Gma don't come around no mo

edit: Texans Chick and Lance Zierlein used to be frequent posters also
 
maverick512000 said:
So are we just forgetting that not only did the Astros have back to back losing seasons, with a few 100 loss seasons, for years but that they actually planned that because they wanted the high draft picks? I love the Astros to but lets not revise history, again, and claim that we were all on board and understanding of them losing year after year because we knew 2017 would be the year we won. Also the Astros have been around what, 60 years with most of that not even being close to WS contenders and the Texans have been around 16 years with 6 winning seasons, 2 8-8 seasons and 8 losing seasons, that's actually pretty good for a team less than 20 years old.
Click to expand...

Lunhow and Morey had real plans to turn the franchises around. They are considered the leaders of 2 of the best front offices in their leagues. The Texans, not so much. The Texans still are old school, using the old eye test and relying on OBriens personality and "complementary" football.
 
JB said:
Now we know why old time poster such as Texan Bill/Runner/Gma don't come around no mo

edit: Texans Chick and Lance Zierlein used to be frequent posters also
Click to expand...

I follow Texans chick on Twitter. She has not been very positive the last few years.
 
TheKDog said:
Lunhow and Morey had real plans to turn the franchises around. They are considered the leaders of 2 of the best front offices in their leagues. The Texans, not so much. The Texans still are old school, using the old eye test and relying on OBriens personality and "complementary" football.
Click to expand...

Their "real plan" was based off a book call Money Ball which was about Oakland Athletics and how they build a competitive team with a small budget . It wasn't their plan, though they did execute it flawlessly, it was basically a step by step guide to how a team could compete in MLB against the big money teams like NY. The Astros were able to take it to the next level though because they did have enough money to use compared to Oakland. MLB uses an entirely different system in both F/A and draft and it has no cap so that's why the big money teams dominated, they just could throw money at every problem with no regard for the future. Given how much you have talked about the Texans possible future cap issues, and I agree with you by the way, I would think you would know this.
 
maverick512000 said:
Their "real plan" was based off a book call Money Ball which was about Oakland Athletics and how they build a competitive team with a small budget . It wasn't their plan, though they did execute it flawlessly, it was basically a step by step guide to how a team could compete in MLB against the big money teams like NY. The Astros were able to take it to the next level though because they did have enough money to use compared to Oakland. MLB uses an entirely different system in both F/A and draft and it has no cap so that's why the big money teams dominated, they just could throw money at every problem with no regard for the future. Given how much you have talked about the Texans possible future cap issues, and I agree with you by the way, I would think you would know this.
Click to expand...

The Astros spent more than Oakland but not as much as the biggest markets. Last year they were only 11th in spending and there is a real question as to whether they will pay up to keep Correa.

It was the red Sox who first combined money ball with tons of spending.
 
TheKDog said:
Lunhow and Morey had real plans to turn the franchises around. They are considered the leaders of 2 of the best front offices in their leagues. The Texans, not so much. The Texans still are old school, using the old eye test and relying on OBriens personality and "complementary" football.
Click to expand...

Yeah, both let their franchises suck for years while they tried to build something. Will Gaine get that opportunity? Not according to some (not you, you're very realistic and fair even though you tend to dwell on the negative a bit) they want a SB this year. But it's not that or clean house and start over
 
TheKDog said:
Lunhow and Morey had real plans to turn the franchises around. They are considered the leaders of 2 of the best front offices in their leagues. The Texans, not so much. The Texans still are old school, using the old eye test and relying on OBriens personality and "complementary" football.
Click to expand...


The NFL as a whole is the least progressive of all leagues so what’s your point?

Morey’s “Plan” consists of churning the backend of the roster every year damn year, ruining chemistry and going after every high profile player that hits the market. Even then it still took him like 5+ years to have a semi-breakthrough in 2015.

Baseball isn’t a fair comparison to the NFL considering that they have a farm system to develop guys. But again, it still took them 2-3 years of serious sucking for them to get into position to get those top picks of Correa.....& Bergman.....& a little luck to find a gem like Altuve. Aside from that, If they didn’t have said farm system to develop guys, it probably would’ve taken then longer than 3 years to get to the championship year in 2017. But it’s not like they didn’t make mistakes along the way either. We could’ve really used JD Martinez's bat this past year.
 
TheKDog said:
The Astros spent more than Oakland but not as much as the biggest markets. Last year they were only 11th in spending and there is a real question as to whether they will pay up to keep Correa.

It was the red Sox who first combined money ball with tons of spending.
Click to expand...

Gee, how long did it take the Red Sox to finally break the curse? Houston football (sports) is also said to be cursed
 
Texansballer74 said:
Yes the Rockets and Astros took a hot minute JB. The difference is both of those franchises are very competitive. They made big time moves to get them to the level they are at currently. They have GM's who knows exactly what their prospective teams wants. Neither are yes men to their coaches.
Click to expand...

So the former GM was a yes man to BOB?

The McNair's definitely

BOB = no chance
 
JB said:
Yeah, both let their franchises suck for years while they tried to build something. Will Gaine get that opportunity? Not according to some (not you, you're very realistic and fair even though you tend to dwell on the negative a bit) they want a SB this year. But it's not that or clean house and start over
Click to expand...

I don't know if ownership and OBrien would want gaine to do that sort of tank for picks plus rebuild. I think Gaine is smart and understands the challenge but I still think OBrien is calling the shots on offense (as the Kalil signing showed)

Yes I am focused negatively on OBrien but I've also been one if the most positive on crennel and the defense. I think the moves they made make a lot of sense though I do wish they were able to keep Matthieu. I expect another top 10 defense next year especially with the young guys getting better (Reid, Cunningham, McKinney, blackson, reader)
 
infantrycak said:
They all had plans. Everyone does. Most don't work out. Only 5 teams from the AFC have won a SB during the Texans' existence. Everyone had plans.
Click to expand...

What was/is the Texans plan? Because what they've been doing hasn't put them within sniffing distance of contender status. It's time to change the lets only build by the draft and sign guys to 1 yr deal plan/ cant draft people who have had troubled pasts plan.
 
TheKDog said:
The Astros spent more than Oakland but not as much as the biggest markets. Last year they were only 11th in spending and there is a real question as to whether they will pay up to keep Correa.

It was the red Sox who first combined money ball with tons of spending.
Click to expand...

I didn't say they spent a ton, in fact that is the exact opposite to how the moneyball system is designed. I said they could take it to the next level because they did have a bigger budget. That allowed them to, for example, sign Verlander when the post season rolled around and teams put their best players on the market, something else that doesn't happen in the NFL. Oakland wouldn't have been able to do that.

Look don't get me wrong, I applaud the Astros for their flawless use of the MLB system. The point, however, is you can't judge an NFL team FO on a MLB or NBA FO, all three are working with entirely different systems. Hell the highest paid baseball player, Clayton Kershaw, at 215 million over 7 years at 34 million a year That type of contract wouldn't even exist in the NFL.

Edit: Sorry, Stephen Strasburg, who I originally had, is the highest paid THIS year at 38 million.
 
Last edited:
Mr teX said:
The NFL as a whole is the least progressive of all leagues so what’s your point?

Morey’s “Plan” consists of churning the backend of the roster every year damn year, ruining chemistry and going after every high profile player that hits the market. Even then it still took him like 5+ years to have a semi-breakthrough in 2015.

Baseball isn’t a fair comparison to the NFL considering that they have a farm system to develop guys. But again, it still took them 2-3 years of serious sucking for them to get into position to get those top picks of Correa.....& Bergman.....& a little luck to find a gem like Altuve. Aside from that, If they didn’t have said farm system to develop guys, it probably would’ve taken then longer than 3 years to get to the championship year in 2017. But it’s not like they didn’t make mistakes along the way either. We could’ve really used JD Martinez's bat this past year.
Click to expand...

Even the great Luhnow made an error that big? OMG!
 
Mr teX said:
The NFL as a whole is the least progressive of all leagues so what’s your point?

Morey’s “Plan” consists of churning the backend of the roster every year damn year, ruining chemistry and going after every high profile player that hits the market. Even then it still took him like 5+ years to have a semi-breakthrough in 2015.

Baseball isn’t a fair comparison to the NFL considering that they have a farm system to develop guys. But again, it still took them 2-3 years of serious sucking for them to get into position to get those top picks of Correa.....& Bergman.....& a little luck to find a gem like Altuve. Aside from that, If they didn’t have said farm system to develop guys, it probably would’ve taken then longer than 3 years to get to the championship year in 2017. But it’s not like they didn’t make mistakes along the way either. We could’ve really used JD Martinez's bat this past year.
Click to expand...

The Browns are going to be a great case study in the NFL.

They sucked under Brown/Jackson.

Dorsey has used those assets to build what looks like a formidable team on paper.

DePodesta is still there and moneyball will remain.
 
steelbtexan said:
The Browns are going to be a great case study in the NFL.

They sucked under Brown/Jackson.

Dorsey has used those assets to build what looks like a formidable team on paper.

DePodesta is still there and moneyball will remain.
Click to expand...

Yeah the NFL is different but I think they showed some of the principles are the same. Draft picks and managing the cap well are important to building a winner
 
maverick512000 said:
So are we just forgetting that not only did the Astros have back to back losing seasons, with a few 100 loss seasons, for years but that they actually planned that because they wanted the high draft picks? I love the Astros to but lets not revise history, again, and claim that we were all on board and understanding of them losing year after year because we knew 2017 would be the year we won. Also the Astros have been around what, 60 years with most of that not even being close to WS contenders and the Texans have been around 16 years with 6 winning seasons, 2 8-8 seasons and 8 losing seasons, that's actually pretty good for a team less than 20 years old.
Click to expand...

If you believed Crane/Luhnow you did.

The Astros were a new franchise with Crane/Luhnow is charge. Bottom of the barrel. The Texans have a new owner and I will ask you again what's Cletus bold new direction. If this offseason is any indication it's more of the same old same old.
 
TheKDog said:
Yeah the NFL is different but I think they showed some of the principles are the same. Draft picks and managing the cap well are important to building a winner
Click to expand...

But to do a true rebuild you've got to bottom out. Real lows/followed by real highs. The Texans plans have and will continue to result in mediocrity, unless Gaine is some kind of draft wizard by getting top 10 type guys at 23.
 
maverick512000 said:
Their "real plan" was based off a book call Money Ball which was about Oakland Athletics and how they build a competitive team with a small budget . It wasn't their plan, though they did execute it flawlessly, it was basically a step by step guide to how a team could compete in MLB against the big money teams like NY. The Astros were able to take it to the next level though because they did have enough money to use compared to Oakland. MLB uses an entirely different system in both F/A and draft and it has no cap so that's why the big money teams dominated, they just could throw money at every problem with no regard for the future. Given how much you have talked about the Texans possible future cap issues, and I agree with you by the way, I would think you would know this.
Click to expand...

You know how you alleviate those cap issues? By trading Clowney/Watt, that's moneyball.Dont think you can win a championship before these guys retire trade them and get future assets. Should've done that near the end with AJ/Foster.
 
JB said:
None of us have... but some of us still have hope
Click to expand...

Hope based on what?

Gaine/BOB?

I had hope coming into this offseason and it's made me realize Cletus is just like his daddy and not much has changed down on Kirby except Gaine may be better at drafting.

I was hoping Cletus would be smart enough to know what he doesn't know and turn the full keys to the franchise over to Gaine. That didn't happen.
 
steelbtexan said:
Hope based on what?

Gaine/BOB?

I had hope coming into this offseason and it's made me realize Cletus is just like his daddy and not much has changed down on Kirby except Gaine may be better at drafting.

I was hoping Cletus would be smart enough to know what he doesn't know and turn the full keys to the franchise over to Gaine. That didn't happen.
Click to expand...

LOL at cletus, but dude been a part of inner circle from the first time Daddy got sick if not before. I never saw anything in Cal to believe that he was an original thinker.
 
You guys are acting like there’s only 1 way to build a championship team & that’s simply not true.

Bottom line is absent a splash signing in FA you guys don’t know what to do with yourselves.
 
TheKDog said:
I think that's a guy O'Brien, not gaine wanted. It's a very bottom of the barrel offensive signing (like mallet) that for some reason OBrien is attracted to.
Click to expand...

Hoping to hit a diamond in the rough
 
steelbtexan said:
Hope based on what?

Gaine/BOB?

I had hope coming into this offseason and it's made me realize Cletus is just like his daddy and not much has changed down on Kirby except Gaine may be better at drafting.

I was hoping Cletus would be smart enough to know what he doesn't know and turn the full keys to the franchise over to Gaine. That didn't happen.
Click to expand...

Hope because I'm a Houstonian firsta and last. I don't care your agendas, I will never give up. I see the warts, but I can dream they'll be beauty spots tomorrow
 
Mr teX said:
You guys are acting like there’s only 1 way to build a championship team & that’s simply not true. b

Bottom line is absent a splash signing in FA you guys don’t know what to do with yourselves.
Click to expand...

We wouldn't know the only time there has been a splash FA signing was JoJo/Manning and that lead to the best 2 yrs in franchise history. Maybe there's something to this spending the $$$$ to get the best players thingy?

Dont give me Os.
 
steelbtexan said:
If you believed Crane/Luhnow you did.

The Astros were a new franchise with Crane/Luhnow is charge. Bottom of the barrel. The Texans have a new owner and I will ask you again what's Cletus bold new direction. If this offseason is any indication it's more of the same old same old.
Click to expand...

For a few years many thought that Crane was the worst owner ever, worse than McLane... I read it here
 
JB said:
For a few years many thought that Crane was the worst owner ever, worse than McLane... I read it here
Click to expand...

I liked Crane

My mother in law worked for him and said he had a real fire in his belly for winning.

McLane and the McNair's are alot alike.
 
steelbtexan said:
We wouldn't know the only time there has been a splash FA signing was JoJo/Manning and that lead to the best 2 yrs in franchise history. Maybe there's something to this spending the $$$$ to get the best players thingy?

Dont give me Os.
Click to expand...

Spending smartly to get the best players bro and even that is still a long shot. More often than not, those high priced FA don’t end up changing the fortunes of the teams the go to that much.

See Ndamkoung Suh
See Nmandi Asoumga
See Albert Haynesworth
See Nate Solder

You see where I’m going with this?
 
steelbtexan said:
I liked Crane

My mother in law worked for him and said he had a real fire in his belly for winning.

McLane and the McNair's are alot alike.
Click to expand...

But remember the first few years when all we heard was good about McLane? He was going to fix things
 
Mr teX said:
Spending smartly to get the best players bro and even that is still a long shot. More often than not, those high priced FA don’t end up changing the fortunes of the teams the go to that much.

See Ndamkoung Suh
See Nmandi Asoumga
See Albert Haynesworth
See Nate Solder

You see where I’m going with this?
Click to expand...

yeah but...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top