Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

**Official Game-Day Thread** Texans at Jets Saturday Dec 15th, 2018!!

Akins & Thomas look like real deal weapons. Where were they yesterday?

Those guys are red zone champs if schemed.

Blocking
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. If you can watch the games the Texans have played this year and concluded that the Texans are a talented, well coached team, then we will just have to disagree. I'm of the opinion that they are more talented than they are well coached, especially on the offensive side of the ball. The Texans will be one and done, bye week or not.

This is where we disagree.

Scoring 29 pts with Blue/Thomas/Carter, tell me where the talent is? Do you think the OL is talented? They've got 10 wins despite this lack of talent. That's the sign of some pretty good coaching. Imagine how good they will be with an improved OL and another WR/RB?
 
Agreed, but the TE's are being used to cover the OL deficiencies. They did the chip and go thing with Griffin yesterday. I like Carter cant believe Gaine found him on the WW this late in the season. Anybody still longing for Braxton Miller?

A speed WR is where I think they are really lacking, but a case could be made that another RB is just as big of a need. I'm happy for Blue that a marginally talented RB is going to stick around long enough to get his pension.
I agree they need a speed WR, but the lack of one shouldn't cripple the offense. Griffin? Really?? #SMDH
One of the Jordans in the flat and one up the seam should be a bread and butter play and with a heavy-ish package on the field, you force the defense into its base package and create better match ups for your playmakers.
If you have that speed WR, then spread them out, make the defense go dime and gash them with the running game while taking occasional shots downfield to keep the D honest.
 
I agree they need a speed WR, but the lack of one shouldn't cripple the offense. Griffin? Really?? #SMDH
One of the Jordans in the flat and one up the seam should be a bread and butter play and with a heavy-ish package on the field, you force the defense into its base package and create better match ups for your playmakers.
If you have that speed WR, then spread them out, make the defense go dime and gash them with the running game while taking occasional shots downfield to keep the D honest.

Your going to get Watson killed if you dont keep the TE's in to block. In theory with a competent OL I would agree with you. They dont have a speed WR to spread out the defense. It is what it is. Blue gashing a defense? LOL
 
A speed WR is where I think they are really lacking, but a case could be made that another RB is just as big of a need..
That WR corp next year with Hop, DT (assuming they negotiate a new contract with him) and Fuller is gonna be awesome I think. But our offense does definitely miss Fullers speed especially since Watson can throw a petty descent deep-ball.
BTW I was really impressed with Arnold as I did not realize he was that athletic and the kids also got some zip on that ball, livley arm. I dunno wonder how dumb the Giants feel now about not taking him instead of the back in this years Draft?
 
That WR corp next year with Hop, DT (assuming they negotiate a new contract with him) and Fuller is gonna be awesome I think. But our offense does definitely miss Fullers speed especially since Watson can throw a petty descent deep-ball.
BTW I was really impressed with Arnold as I did not realize he was that athletic and the kids also got some zip on that ball, livley arm. I dunno wonder how dumb the Giants feel now about not taking him instead of the back in this years Draft?

They've got to find another speed WR since Fuller cant stay healthy.

Darnold/Rosen etc... Brakley is a great back, but you dont pass on a potential franchise QB particularly when your QB is in his late 30's.

Darnold/Rosen were the reason I wanted Smith to fix the OL 2 yrs ago and draft Darnold/Rosen in last yrs draft. I can admit that I was wrong and that's something many posters on this MB struggle to do.
 
I agree they need a speed WR, but the lack of one shouldn't cripple the offense. Griffin? Really?? #SMDH
One of the Jordans in the flat and one up the seam should be a bread and butter play and with a heavy-ish package on the field, you force the defense into its base package and create better match ups for your playmakers.
If you have that speed WR, then spread them out, make the defense go dime and gash them with the running game while taking occasional shots downfield to keep the D honest.

If we had an OL that was reliable and Watson could read the defenses well post snap, Id love to see the 3 TE packages that the Jets ran yesterday.
 
Thing is....they have a speed WR on the roster....Vyncient Smith. However, they feel his route running is not ready yet....I guess.
 
There were plays where the dump off pass was there and Watson missed it, and plays were there was no hot read. Either way, it's a problem for the coach to fix by teaching your QB to diagnose the blitz or calling blitz-beating plays. This is not hard.

We only won that game because of a low-odds 60 yard TD. This game exposed a lot of problems, but the win will allow fans to forget them.
 
It wouldn't hurt for OB to try a PA on 1st down every now and then to keep defenses honest. Defense's are stacking the box on 1st down and the team just runs the play as called.....Miller or Blue into a pile of humans. Maybe a PA quick slant would catch defenses with their pants down. I'd definitely take a slant that gets 4-6 yards versus a run that nets 0 to negative 3-5 yards. Anyone want to say that there's no way something like this wouldn't work?
 
It wouldn't hurt for OB to try a PA on 1st down every now and then to keep defenses honest. Defense's are stacking the box on 1st down and the team just runs the play as called.....Miller or Blue into a pile of humans. Maybe a PA quick slant would catch defenses with their pants down. I'd definitely take a slant that gets 4-6 yards versus a run that nets 0 to negative 3-5 yards. Anyone want to say that there's no way something like this wouldn't work?

It’s funny that we’ve :deadhorse over and over and it would seem so obvious so it’s almost like O’Brien decides “no, not going to try anything different on 1st since they are waiting for me to try something different”
 
It wouldn't hurt for OB to try a PA on 1st down every now and then to keep defenses honest. Defense's are stacking the box on 1st down and the team just runs the play as called.....Miller or Blue into a pile of humans. Maybe a PA quick slant would catch defenses with their pants down. I'd definitely take a slant that gets 4-6 yards versus a run that nets 0 to negative 3-5 yards. Anyone want to say that there's no way something like this wouldn't work?

If they are stacking the box, isn't it on the QB to read that and audible out of the run up the gut?
 
Here's a stat for ya.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-first-down-pct

Texans rank 20th in the league in first down run percentage, at 28.77%.

In the last game against the Jets? They ran on 6.67% of first downs.

So yeah, you can stop flogging that dead horse because the Texans abandoned the run pretty handily vs. The Jets.

The last 2 games the ground game has stopped working, it's been the lynchpin to our game plan through the 9 game winning streak.

In fact, far from selling out vs. The run, the Jets were able to bring the house pass rushing and it caused all sorts of issues for Watson who couldn't move the chains for a long time in the second half.
 
Your going to get Watson killed if you dont keep the TE's in to block. In theory with a competent OL I would agree with you. They dont have a speed WR to spread out the defense. It is what it is. Blue gashing a defense? LOL
Blue has had some good runs. Yes, I said that with a straight face. He can pop off a good one or two every year. He had a 30+ yd td carry called back due to a holding penalty against the Colts. Has Miller been ruled out for next Sunday? He can definitely gash a dime defense.
Blocking


This is where we disagree.

Scoring 29 pts with Blue/Thomas/Carter, tell me where the talent is? Do you think the OL is talented? They've got 10 wins despite this lack of talent. That's the sign of some pretty good coaching. Imagine how good they will be with an improved OL and another WR/RB?
The Texans aren't exactly blowing teams away. Most of their wins are lucky flukes. Kickers missing FGs and PATs, etc. Scoring 29 points against cellar dwellers isn't making anyone go "ooh....ahh...". Quite the opposite. I do not think the OL is particularly talented. I also don't know what they would look like if it weren't for injuries to the unit. I hope they upgrade the T positions, especially LT.
 
If they are stacking the box, isn't it on the QB to read that and audible out of the run up the gut?

That or Watson. No one seems capable of confirming whether Watson is permitted to audible out of the called play. Maybe, Watson doesn't see the stacked box and figures OB is a genius in regards to called play.
 
That or Watson. No one seems capable of confirming whether Watson is permitted to audible out of the called play. Maybe, Watson doesn't see the stacked box and figures OB is a genius in regards to called play.

Has McClain every asked OB about audibles? BT Smith? Anyone? Houston media is weak if they didn’t ask about that at least once or twice, or if BOB scripts the first 15-20 or whatever plays....
 
Last edited:
Ever seen a deer


Has McClain every asked OB about audibles? BT Smith? Anyone? Houston media is weak if they didn’t ask about that at least once or twice, or if BOB scripts the first 15-20 or whatever plays....

Yeah media is weaker than single ply TP
 
Also that WR screen to DT should only be ran like twice a game.
If they are stacking the box, isn't it on the QB to read that and audible out of the run up the gut?
Issue with changing the play, its seems we only have 2 plays out of the singleback set with double tightends. Either handing the ball off or PA. So if I had to guess teams know they only are going to do one or the other and quite frankly they know the front 7 cant get any push so aint too much else they can do.
 
Here's a stat for ya.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-first-down-pct

Texans rank 20th in the league in first down run percentage, at 28.77%.

In the last game against the Jets? They ran on 6.67% of first downs.

So yeah, you can stop flogging that dead horse because the Texans abandoned the run pretty handily vs. The Jets.

The last 2 games the ground game has stopped working, it's been the lynchpin to our game plan through the 9 game winning streak.

In fact, far from selling out vs. The run, the Jets were able to bring the house pass rushing and it caused all sorts of issues for Watson who couldn't move the chains for a long time in the second half.
That chart shows the percentage of runs that result in 1st downs -- not the percentage of times they run on 1st down. This shows how much we run on 1st: https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/situational-run-pass-ratios--off-.html. 63%. Tied for the highest % in the league w/ Seattle.
 
Agreed, but the TE's are being used to cover the OL deficiencies. They did the chip and go thing with Griffin yesterday. I like Carter cant believe Gaine found him on the WW this late in the season. Anybody still longing for Braxton Miller?

A speed WR is where I think they are really lacking, but a case could be made that another RB is just as big of a need. I'm happy for Blue that a marginally talented RB is going to stick around long enough to get his pension.

Going into next year i’d love for them to find a Phillip Lindsay type RB. Should be a reasonable expectation to acquire such a talent as talented RBs like that go overlooked every year and I think we now have one of the better GMs to uncover one.

Counting on Vyncint Smith to make a sizeable jump in year two along with camp competition to be determined (preferably a more polished college product like Robert Foster a UDFA for the Bills who’s career at Alabama was derailed by injuries). We definitely need someone that can assume Fuller’s role if/when he gets hurt.
 
There were plays where the dump off pass was there and Watson missed it, and plays were there was no hot read. Either way, it's a problem for the coach to fix by teaching your QB to diagnose the blitz or calling blitz-beating plays. This is not hard.

We only won that game because of a low-odds 60 yard TD. This game exposed a lot of problems, but the win will allow fans to forget them.

I wouldn’t say this game exposed anything that the team and TT fanbase didn’t already know. They just happen to be 10-4 in spite of the warts. Everyone here will draw their own conclusions why they continue to win in spite of themselves!
 
This is the kind of stuff I just don’t get from fans. I’m not a RAH RAH BIll O Brien guy and if I was the GM and had a do over it might not be him. However I would never want O’Brien or Ryan to fail NEXT YEAR so I could say “see I told you this guy sucks” Why are you even watching the games?

A10 win season, a playoff spot, probably a division title and here we have fans that are already looking to next year for failure.

When in the hell did I turn into steelbtexan?

I'm going to go take a shower.
 
Last edited:
Has McClain every asked OB about audibles? BT Smith? Anyone? Houston media is weak if they didn’t ask about that at least once or twice, or if BOB scripts the first 15-20 or whatever plays....

One thing I like about BO'b is he'll take one on the chin before throwing a player under the bus. If asked, regardless what the truth is, he'll take the blame.
 
Going into next year i’d love for them to find a Phillip Lindsay type RB. Should be a reasonable expectation to acquire such a talent as talented RBs like that go overlooked every year and I think we now have one of the better GMs to uncover one.

Counting on Vyncint Smith to make a sizeable jump in year two along with camp competition to be determined (preferably a more polished college product like Robert Foster a UDFA for the Bills who’s career at Alabama was derailed by injuries). We definitely need someone that can assume Fuller’s role if/when he gets hurt.

Lindsey type guys aren't easy to find, but we're in agreement in that we believe if anybody can find a RB late in the draft can do it.

Smith hopes to have Coates career.

Gotta either spend the $$$$ in FA and either a 2nd/3rd rd pick to get the more polished guys. 2 guys I like are Mims and I think Hurd would make a great slot. I know he's a better RB than Blue is and if he's there in the 5th I would take him in a heartbeat. Really talented guy in the 5th, I could even see trading up into the 4th for an athlete like Hurd.
 
Lindsey type guys aren't easy to find, but we're in agreement in that we believe if anybody can find a RB late in the draft can do it.

Smith hopes to have Coates career.

Gotta either spend the $$$$ in FA and either a 2nd/3rd rd pick to get the more polished guys. 2 guys I like are Mims and I think Hurd would make a great slot. I know he's a better RB than Blue is and if he's there in the 5th I would take him in a heartbeat. Really talented guy in the 5th, I could even see trading up into the 4th for an athlete like Hurd.

Disagree on WR draft allocation. Talented guys can be found later as well though not as readily available as RBs. Need to find the guys who maybe didn’t fulfill college potential due to injury like Bills appear to have done with UDFA gem Robert Foster.

Foster was the #2 ranked WR in the nation for his high school class. Went to Alabama and dealt with injuries that limited his playing time and caused him to fall down the depth chart. Rather than transfer he stayed at Alabama and went undrafted due to limited college production. But clearly had the talent and measurables Gaine has been looking to add with his UDFA pickups Jester Weah and Vyncint Smith. Very similar height/weight/speed product.

http://www.draftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=127095&draftyear=2018&genpos=WR
 
Disagree on WR draft allocation. Talented guys can be found later as well though not as readily available as RBs. Need to find the guys who maybe didn’t fulfill college potential due to injury like Bills appear to have done with UDFA gem Robert Foster.

Foster was the #2 ranked WR in the nation for his high school class. Went to Alabama and dealt with injuries that limited his playing time and caused him to fall down the depth chart. Rather than transfer he stayed at Alabama and went undrafted due to limited college production. But clearly had the talent and measurables Gaine has been looking to add with his UDFA pickups Jester Weah and Vyncint Smith. Very similar height/weight/speed product.

http://www.draftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=127095&draftyear=2018&genpos=WR

I'm watching Josh Adams UDFA Notre Dame helping carry the load for the Eagles right now. A guy like that would be a perfect RB compliment to Miller.
 
I thought we looked extremely dominant in the last few minutes of the game, once the Jets went up.

Like when you're playing with your little brother and you let him keep it close so he doesn’t quit then he gets a shot in on you. So you show him who’s boss.

Or maybe I just need to rewatch it.
 
I thought we looked extremely dominant in the last few minutes of the game, once the Jets went up.

Like when you're playing with your little brother and you let him keep it close so he doesn’t quit then he gets a shot in on you. So you show him who’s boss.

Or maybe I just need to rewatch it.
We looked better because they finally called good plays on offense with quick slants and hitches
 
j6pz50.png


1y39ft.jpg


Here is Watson's first sack. A play designed with 3 of the 4 routes congested in the middle of the field, Watson went to pull the trigger quick, but Hopkins wasn't looking and wasn't really open anyway. The defense had a zone called and passed him off nicely. MAYBE Watson could have hit Blue out of the backfield, but doubtful.
 
j6pz50.png


1y39ft.jpg


Here is Watson's first sack. A play designed with 3 of the 4 routes congested in the middle of the field, Watson went to pull the trigger quick, but Hopkins wasn't looking and wasn't really open anyway. The defense had a zone called and passed him off nicely. MAYBE Watson could have hit Blue out of the backfield, but doubtful.

instead of bunching them after the snap why not bunch them before the snap and use some 'leverage' aka picks/rubs to naturally bring some receivers open sooner? Against pressure Watson doesnt have time to let the routes develop. I mean where do you throw it from those images? You have to keep waiting for someone to get open and Lamm was already about to give up the pressure. Its only a 4 man rush with a QB spy. Mr "MAX PROTECT" Ryan Griffin is even in the progression. I guess Watson should have just tucked it and ran, but then the discussion shifts to "he wont make it a full season if he runs like that"
 
hsj0c6.png


2cnhvm9.png


Here is the 2nd sack. To this point in the game, we have moved the ball very well. Just failed in the red zone to convert. We have been sending 3-5 guys consistently out in route. OB went full turtle starting in the 3rd quarter.

Only 2 guys go out into the route. Note it is 2nd and 5 and by the time Watson hits his back foot, neither WR is in the screen anymore (that's how far down the field they are) and Thomas was beaten like a drum. Where the hell is Watson supposed to throw it to here?

2cse73a.png


This was the exact moment Watson hit his back foot and snapped his head around.
 
11ccol3.png


6gkgav.png


So many things about this play pissed me off. First of all, OB calls a timeout because he doesn't think Watson will snap the ball, so what. It's third and forever, what's another 5 yards at this point? Next, the guys are so far downfield that when it pans you don't see anyone except Griffin (who was doubled on the sideline) and Blue in the flat. Stupid route combos again. This is the first sack where I would put it on Watson. You see no one open, dump it off to Blue, even if it means not getting the first down. Side note, how pathetic is the OL where they can't protect Watson against 3 rushers.
 
n680hy.png


2cdir2a.png


24f0glv.png


More of the same. 2nd and 11 (because you guessed it, a failed first down run). We see only 2 wr's go out for a pass, both ridiculously deep downfield. The Jets only rushed 4, so they have 7 people covering 2 players. Watson actually had 4 seconds from snap to being flushed and sacked. The problem was no one was open. Hell even if he dumps it off to Carter we lose yards on this one. I have been saying it for a while now, OB has gone so overboard with protecting Watson that it's actually doing the opposite. You are limiting him too much and creating more pressure on him.
 
Good stuff amazing80! Been saying it for a while now - BOB sucks as an OC. He needs to bring in someone legit as an OC and no not the QB coach Ryan. Someone with a new voice and some new ideas. Let them work together in the off-season and I think the offense with some talent influx along the line and some guys returning to health can make major improvement.

I mean saying an OC and/or change in overall offensive philosophy won't make a difference is to ignore history. Just this week, Minn. hung 41 on the Dolphins after struggling all year - just after an OC change. And don't look now, but the Browns dump their HC/OC in Jackson/Haley, and all the sudden they are 4-1 in their last 5.

COACHING MATTERS. SCHEME MATTERS.

Right now, BOB is an average HC but a bottom 1/3 OC and he's wearing too many hats. I don't mind keeping the guy - I mean you can't dump him after a season like this, but for the love of God they need to do to him what they did to Kubiak when they forced him to hire a DC. He's got to relinquish some control, be a true HC and let the OC (working with BOB of course) devise a good NFL offense that takes full advantage of the talent that is on this team.
 
Only 2 guys go out into the route. Note it is 2nd and 5 and by the time Watson hits his back foot, neither WR is in the screen anymore (that's how far down the field they are) and Thomas was beaten like a drum. Where the hell is Watson supposed to throw it to here?

2cse73a.png


This was the exact moment Watson hit his back foot and snapped his head around.

This is the play I saw on tv and I was thinking "where are the receivers in the middle?"

If OB is going to stay as OC, then he needs to call more plays that work, like the last drive that got us the win.
 
Photographic stuff and game film is helpful to a certain extent in discerning what went wrong. We arent privy to what the play call was, and if one of these wideouts made a wrong read etc... the EP system puts alot of read and recognition stuff on the WRs, and the QB needs to know EVERYBODYs reads and assignments. I dont want to bang on OB too much because we dont have all the information, but philosophically there is something off. It seems like an antiquated system.

Everyone should just be happy Watson isnt forcing things and throwing a bunch of stupid picks hoping the WRs read it right and was just 'doing his job' ... he's getting slammed for holding onto the ball too long, but judging by these images he doesnt have much of a shot.

The game winning pass - it just came down to "DHOP 1 on 1 .. i'm throwing it" .. waited for the first mistake and he took a risk.

NY isnt a very good defense, but their coaches put together a nice game plan on both sides, they lost the game because of a true lack of talent, and ironically we won it because our skill players happen to be elite at what they do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB
n680hy.png


2cdir2a.png


24f0glv.png


More of the same. 2nd and 11 (because you guessed it, a failed first down run). We see only 2 wr's go out for a pass, both ridiculously deep downfield. The Jets only rushed 4, so they have 7 people covering 2 players. Watson actually had 4 seconds from snap to being flushed and sacked. The problem was no one was open. Hell even if he dumps it off to Carter we lose yards on this one. I have been saying it for a while now, OB has gone so overboard with protecting Watson that it's actually doing the opposite. You are limiting him too much and creating more pressure on him.
It's all a domino effect of the o-line being bad. People say some sacks are on Watson for holding onto the ball so long? Yeah maybe so, but it's because there's 2 receivers in the pattern because everyone has to stay in and block, because the o-line sucks.

I don't fault OB for that unless he had say in who those o-linemen are.

But as bad as the o-line has been, for Watson to have the numbers he's still putting up is incredible to me. If they ever give this guy protection, look out.
 
It's darn hard to call a game when your oline is so bad that they require 7-8 player protections..........when your TEs and RBs are all part of the protection. That (TEs especially being tied up or slowed to chip before they go out) and with the slot being injured, the middle of the field between the hash marks is essentially abandoned.
 
Last edited:
hsj0c6.png


2cnhvm9.png


Here is the 2nd sack. To this point in the game, we have moved the ball very well. Just failed in the red zone to convert. We have been sending 3-5 guys consistently out in route. OB went full turtle starting in the 3rd quarter.

Only 2 guys go out into the route. Note it is 2nd and 5 and by the time Watson hits his back foot, neither WR is in the screen anymore (that's how far down the field they are) and Thomas was beaten like a drum. Where the hell is Watson supposed to throw it to here?

2cse73a.png


This was the exact moment Watson hit his back foot and snapped his head around.

Great job with the pics. Would you happen to have the presnap look before this snap?

I'm wondering why Kelemente is pulling to block no one. Maybe to sell the play action. But because of that pull, Davenport has to block down, leaving Griffen woefully overmatched.

We have 7 guys there to block 5

8 if you count the RB.
 
n680hy.png


2cdir2a.png


24f0glv.png


More of the same. 2nd and 11 (because you guessed it, a failed first down run). We see only 2 wr's go out for a pass, both ridiculously deep downfield. The Jets only rushed 4, so they have 7 people covering 2 players. Watson actually had 4 seconds from snap to being flushed and sacked. The problem was no one was open. Hell even if he dumps it off to Carter we lose yards on this one. I have been saying it for a while now, OB has gone so overboard with protecting Watson that it's actually doing the opposite. You are limiting him too much and creating more pressure on him.

Again, would be nice to see the presnap shot of this one as well. Looks like we've got three guys blocking two on the right side. Was that a stunt? Then Griffin totally whiffed on the wham block... then picks Davenport off his man.

I'd really love to know what Watson is thinking protection wise & what he's communicating to his line. Is he seeing it wrong, being fooled, saying it wrong, or are the linemen hearing him wrong?
 
n680hy.png


2cdir2a.png


24f0glv.png


More of the same. 2nd and 11 (because you guessed it, a failed first down run). We see only 2 wr's go out for a pass, both ridiculously deep downfield. The Jets only rushed 4, so they have 7 people covering 2 players. Watson actually had 4 seconds from snap to being flushed and sacked. The problem was no one was open. Hell even if he dumps it off to Carter we lose yards on this one. I have been saying it for a while now, OB has gone so overboard with protecting Watson that it's actually doing the opposite. You are limiting him too much and creating more pressure on him.

When the OC mucks up the series of plays by relegating 2nd down to be 10-15 to a first, it just kills the passing options on 2nd down....unless the OC has decided to run Miller up the middle again to keep defenses guessing. Nothing like facing 3rd and long and DC's knowing a sure pass of 5 yards is coming.

1st: Run for nothing or lose yards.
2nd: Try to throw a deep pass although Watson doesn't really have time for the routes to develop.
3rd: And long, this is the time the OC will get conservative on a passing play and call for a screen or pass play of 5 yards or less.

Does this happen all the time? Of course not, but it happens enough that it would become a major issue in the playoffs.
 
Back
Top