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Save us Savage!!!!!!!

OptimisticTexan said:
The same exact thing was said about the QB Class as well. All the analyst stated this QB group was being over-hyped and could go far sooner than they would go in a more talented class.

Now, don't get me wrong in regards to Watson, I liked him as a project who had things to correct in his game but I didn't like what the Texans gave up to draft him. In all honesty, I think he would have fallen right into the Texans laps at 25.

In a draft that featured long-shots at QB and OL, which happened to be the Texans 2 biggest needs...I would've traded back (and yes, there was probably a taker if the Texans were serious) and rolled the dice on a couple of OT's. The biggest difference, the Texans wouldn't have needed to trade up for their long-shot nor would they have had to give up a valuable 2018 pick in the process.

Worth mentioning, with RS supposedly knowing his HC...he drafted a QB in RD1 with the knowledge that O'Brien doesn't usually prefer to start a rookie QB, especially when his job may be on the line this season. So take Cam Robinson and Ethan Pocic since both represent possible Day 1 starters. Watson's impact for 2017 solely rest on what Savage does with his first opportunity. Also, if the OL fails in its bid to improve then my guess is...it wont be Watson who turns the offense around, suddenly.

This shroud of mystery will begin to clear up once Wednesday arrives, which begins a solid 3 week run of some upgraded observations.
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There is no way in hell Watson was going to fall to 25..that simply wasn't going to happen.
 
76Texan said:
Nah, considering he got 2 no. 1 overall; his draft and acquisition records are as suggested: mediocre at best.
He didn't get hired until June, and did not inherited a failed team.
By the time of his arrival, the Texans already got players such as Lundy, AJ, OD, Salaam (stop gap, but valuable) Pitts, Flanagan, Weary ( stop gap) on offense and similar talents on defense with more upside (as they are younger). A solid foundation.
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I remember the expectations for a HOF coach like Parcells was 4 years to take a team from irrelevant to playoffs, even with a three time Super Bowl winning GM. For Kubiak to miss the playoffs on a tie breaker his 4th season, then to actually make the playoffs & win a game in season 6, with the help of Rick Smith, ain't bad.

& while it's true our division is weak, 4 division championships over the last six is at least on the good side of mediocre.
 
thunderkyss said:
I remember the expectations for a HOF coach like Parcells was 4 years to take a team from irrelevant to playoffs, even with a three time Super Bowl winning GM. For Kubiak to miss the playoffs on a tie breaker his 4th season, then to actually make the playoffs & win a game in season 6, with the help of Rick Smith, ain't bad.

& while it's true our division is weak, 4 division championships over the last six is at least on the good side of mediocre.
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Didn't we go 10-6 and 12-4 under Rick's watch as well? (((((SARCASM))))))

WON back to back Division titles as well. If Matt doesn't get hurt huh.
 
thunderkyss said:
I remember the expectations for a HOF coach like Parcells was 4 years to take a team from irrelevant to playoffs, even with a three time Super Bowl winning GM. For Kubiak to miss the playoffs on a tie breaker his 4th season, then to actually make the playoffs & win a game in season 6, with the help of Rick Smith, ain't bad.

& while it's true our division is weak, 4 division championships over the last six is at least on the good side of mediocre.
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Except Parcells always did it in two years or less.

The lucky thing for Ricky is that he always have had at least one good coach on at least one side of the ball.
Kubiak, Phillip, and RC.
And O'Brien; well, we had also determined that he's about mediocre as Ricky.

The last 6 years; it was a 2- horse race in the division (with different teams).
The Texans, by virtue of better coaches overall, and a little luck, came out ahead 4-2 as division winner.
2015 was a gimmie with both the Colts' QBs playing hurt or out.
2016 was luck, as the lowly Jags somehow managed to beat the Colts and the Titans.

This year and the next five or so will be more telling.
With no pick in the first two rounds and a bunch of big contracts coming due soon; we'll see how Rick Smith handle it all.
 
TheKDog said:
imo the Kubiak years were pretty good, especially after adding Phillips. That was a legit contending team derailed by injuries.
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I don't think we can blame it all on injuries.. Wade's defense took a huge dive after his 1st season also. It was a multiple of things. Alot of crap happened including our coach stroking out on the football field, still can't believe that happened.

Kubiak's record against winning teams and also his primetime games were pretty abysmal. I was glad he was able to ride off into the sunset though.
 
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Lucky said:
I think it has more to do with trust. O'Brien hasn't brought out a lot of game plans where he is spraying the ball all over the field. I don't see that changing this season no matter if it is Savage or Watson behind center. And why should he? These guys have accomplished less than any QBs O'Brien has entered the season with.


You can look at it any way you want, I guess. I'm not going down the rabbit hole of specific numbers. I'm saying if O'Brien wins enough for McNair to extend his contract, Savage's contribution will have to be judged. If O'Brien doesn't win enough to get an extension, there will be a new sheriff in town. And who knows what he will think of Savage. It all boils down to winning and how McNair will define it.
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Going into this season with an unproven Savage and a rookie in Watson - I'd bet the bar isn't much higher than 9-10 wins , a playoff appearance / win.

Now should either of those QB's show legitimate promise the bar gets raised in their second season.
 
TheKDog said:
Yeah. I mean, he benched Hoyer after one half after a long drawn-out training camp competition where he couldn't decide who to start.

Then he finally benched Mallet by using the wind getting knocked out of him as an excuse.

And many point to Fitzpatrick's season as evidence that OBrien is a good QB coach. And yet he was benched for Mallet too.

I think it's safe to say that Mallet is a much worse qb than the other two, but O'Brien saw them up close and still thought otherwise.

Then it took him forever to bench osweiler, then gives him the job back just because savage had a concussion.

I can't trust him when he contradicts the scouts by saying Watson is accurate or he is way ahead of other QBs he's coached.
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Do you think Watson was a combination of Rick Smith and O'Brien or just O'Brien? I get the feeling Rick Smith likes to keep a little distance on certain picks, to give him a plausible excuse, if things don't work out. Rick Smith seems to be like a politician in that regard. Maybe I am wrong. If the pick was mostly O'Brien, then I could see him saying Watson is accurate. If Rick Smith was the person mainly responsible, then I would expect OB to say there is some work to do. :twocents:
 

Today on NFL Live, Herm Edwards had some very interesting thoughts about Bill O’Brien’s praise of rookie QB Deshaun Watson. O’Brien has recently said that Watson is much further along than any other rookie QB he has ever worked with. Edwards believes that this is really a tactic O’Brien is using to communicate to his players that Watson is going to be the starter, but he just hasn’t announced it yet. The Texans have been firm in saying that Tom Savage is the starter, but Watson was drafted for a reason, and they intend on him taking the job at some point.

Things could definitely change over the next few weeks after more practices and preseason games take place. However, Edwards makes a good point that I hadn’t considered, and it’s not like Tom Savage has accomplished enough in the NFL to be the unquestioned starting QB. It looks like the preseason games are going to be very interesting to watch this year, to say the least.
 
rittenhouserobz said:
Do you think Watson was a combination of Rick Smith and O'Brien or just O'Brien? I get the feeling Rick Smith likes to keep a little distance on certain picks, to give him a plausible excuse, if things don't work out. Rick Smith seems to be like a politician in that regard. Maybe I am wrong. If the pick was mostly O'Brien, then I could see him saying Watson is accurate. If Rick Smith was the person mainly responsible, then I would expect OB to say there is some work to do. :twocents:
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I think it's exactly that. It's O'Brien's guy and Rick plays the politician so he doesn't get fired.

It was just strange (to me) to hear O'Brien say Watson is accurate when it's something that is known he needs to work on
 
Texansballer74 said:

Today on NFL Live, Herm Edwards had some very interesting thoughts about Bill O’Brien’s praise of rookie QB Deshaun Watson. O’Brien has recently said that Watson is much further along than any other rookie QB he has ever worked with. Edwards believes that this is really a tactic O’Brien is using to communicate to his players that Watson is going to be the starter, but he just hasn’t announced it yet. The Texans have been firm in saying that Tom Savage is the starter, but Watson was drafted for a reason, and they intend on him taking the job at some point.

Things could definitely change over the next few weeks after more practices and preseason games take place. However, Edwards makes a good point that I hadn’t considered, and it’s not like Tom Savage has accomplished enough in the NFL to be the unquestioned starting QB. It looks like the preseason games are going to be very interesting to watch this year, to say the least.
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Somehow, I would have a difficult time listening to a 54 win 74 loss NFL HC who was considered by many to be less than mediocre......especially when it came to the offense and specifically QB choices and development (eg. Huard).
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Somehow, I would have a difficult time listening to a 54 win 74 loss NFL HC who was considered by many to be less than mediocre......especially when it came to the offense and specifically QB choices and development (eg. Huard).
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Well, if David Carr does a story agreeing with him would that put you over the top?

Yeah, me neither.

I don't think anyone can predict what the Texans are going to do at the QB position because I don't think they know what they're going to do at the QB position. I take them at their word when they say Savage is the starter because as a rule when have the Bill O'Brien Texans not done what they said they were going to do at the QB spot.... at least initially?

That may not last more than half a game if Savage walks out there and is ineffective but for now that's the starter and he probably will continue to be as long as he's effective and protects the ball. I don't think the Texans are trying some kind of Jedi mind trick to keep everyone in the dark about their secret starter or anything like that. They'll start Watson when they think he's ready and when they think the results can't be any worse than what they're getting from Savage.
 
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I love Savages's high take off. As tall as Osweiler was, his take off (ear level) made him more equivalent to a 6' tall QB.

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In all honesty, I just want to have more of a body of work to evaluate the effectiveness of the vision goggle that Savage claimed he was using to train his vision.

If it works out, I guess O'Brien can finally say that he had developed a QB even though it was Savage who actually took the initiative on his own.
But I can live with that.

On the other hand, if we start to see Watson taking more and more reps with the first team, I wouldn't know what to make out of it.
It could just mean they're preparing him for the future, knowing that Savage already had the playbook down; but it may also means that Watson had made significant progress.

One way or another, I just hope that the offense gets to the average level first so we fans can truly have hope going to a game against teams in the top quarter like the Pats.
The Bengals still have many question marks before getting consideration for that quartet; they may or may not bounce back.
The Texans need to come out of the gate 3-1; otherwise, it could be another long season.
 
Texansballer74 said:

Today on NFL Live, .
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It never ceases to amaze me how well Suzy Kolber has aged. When she first started on tv I thought she was alright. But now, she's an absolute doll.

Pretty cool how honest Vance Joseph was about his QBs.

I don't understand how O'Briens comments constitute a "rave"
 
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Texansballer74 said:
The Texans have been firm in saying that Tom Savage is the starter, but Watson was drafted for a reason, and they intend on him taking the job at some point.
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Saying Tom Savage is the starter is the Texans way of covering there butts in the event Watson did not live up to their expectations.

I'm shocked that so many people believed they want to start Tom Savage. They spent $32M to bring in a QB they never said two words to, to come in & start. They sat out of FA & gave up a 2nd round pick to make room for an aging, injury prone QB to start... then they traded away a future first to jump 12 spots & draft a QB...

But they planned to start Tom Savage week 1....

Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif
 
thunderkyss said:
Saying Tom Savage is the starter is the Texans way of covering there butts in the event Watson did not live up to their expectations.

I'm shocked that so many people believed they want to start Tom Savage. They spent $32M to bring in a QB they never said two words to, to come in & start. They sat out of FA & gave up a 2nd round pick to make room for an aging, injury prone QB to start... then they traded away a future first to jump 12 spots & draft a QB...

But they planned to start Tom Savage week 1....

Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif
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While I agree with you (and Jennifer Lawrence here) I also think the Texans would be more than content with Savage seizing the job and running with it if he can. They're not stupid (looks can be deceiving) and they'll take an effective QB any way they can get one at this point. If he can't step up and do it then they gave him a shot. If he can then they have a good problem. If he can't then Watson goes in and does his thing.

If neither one of them can do it then there's always Brandon Weeden OUT OF NOWHERE FOR THE WIN!
 
Hervoyel said:
While I agree with you (and Jennifer Lawrence here) I also think the Texans would be more than content with Savage seizing the job and running with it if he can. They're not stupid (looks can be deceiving) and they'll take an effective QB any way they can get one at this point. If he can't step up and do it then they gave him a shot. If he can then they have a good problem. If he can't then Watson goes in and does his thing.

If neither one of them can do it then there's always Brandon Weeden OUT OF NOWHERE FOR THE WIN!
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They do not look smart either. They actually looks lost when it comes to quarterback evaluations.
 
thunderkyss said:
It never ceases to amaze me how well Suzy Kolber has aged. When she first started on tv I thought she was alright. But now, she's an absolute doll.

Pretty cool how honest Vance Joseph was about his QBs.

I don't understand how O'Briens comments constitute a "rave"
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Yes she is full grown and sexy now.

Love the fact that Coach Joseph was very honest. No sugar-coated anything, get your acts together.


Everybody is always trying to dig deep and dissect whats being said by these coaches. I guess Coach Herm was reading between the lines.
 
Hervoyel said:
While I agree with you (and Jennifer Lawrence here) I also think the Texans would be more than content with Savage seizing the job and running with it if he can. They're not stupid (looks can be deceiving) and they'll take an effective QB any way they can get one at this point. If he can't step up and do it then they gave him a shot. If he can then they have a good problem. If he can't then Watson goes in and does his thing.

If neither one of them can do it then there's always Brandon Weeden OUT OF NOWHERE FOR THE WIN!
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I don't disagree.

If Tom Savage impresses them enough to earn the job, he'll have surprised the heck out of the Texans who at that point would probably want a draft do over.
 
76Texan said:
What did I miss?
The Cowboys made the playoffs the first year Parcells got there.
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Had to look that up, but yeah they did. They did miss the next three until the emergence of Romo. At that point Parcells had had enough of Jerry and resigned. I just remember the Quincy Carter disaster the first year and didn't think they made the playoffs until Wade took over.
 
paycheck71 said:
Had to look that up, but yeah they did. They did miss the next three until the emergence of Romo. At that point Parcells had had enough of Jerry and resigned. I just remember the Quincy Carter disaster the first year and didn't think they made the playoffs until Wade took over.
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They made it his 4th year as well.
In his third year, that division was very competitive.
His team was 9-7, but finished third behind the Giants and the Redskins.
The Eagles went 6-4 outside the division.
 
76Texan said:
Romo fumbled the snap on the short FG try, giving the Seahawks a one-point win.
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Honestly while it was a play that Romo should've made, I put that gaff on Parcells... the minute Romo became the starting QB he shouldn't of been the snap holder anymore. Seriously when he was the starter and was taking starting reps at QB in practice that season how many holder snaps do you really think he was taking?

I believe Parcells later even admitted that he made a mistake there. Romo should've been relieved of those duties as soon as he became the QB. Oh well, the rest is history.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Honestly while it was a play that Romo should've made, I put that gaff on Parcells... the minute Romo became the starting QB he shouldn't of been the snap holder anymore. Seriously when he was the starter and was taking starting reps at QB in practice that season how many holder snaps do you really think he was taking?

I believe Parcells later even admitted that he made a mistake there. Romo should've been relieved of those duties as soon as he became the QB. Oh well, the rest is history.
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That was old school there. I remember Theismann and Largent as holders.

When Romo first got there, he was a backup QB and was used as the holder. Actually, I just looked it up and he remained there until 2012. In 2010, he was relieved for a while, but returned when the other guy mishandled too many snaps.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Listening and accepting are 2 very different exercises. This is the challenge that every fan must try to individually and honestly decipher.
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Now if I get smart with you people will think Im the bad guy.

Coach Herm knows more about football than Pat, myself and you put together. Could his prediction be wrong, heck yes. But he might be spot on as well.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Now if I get smart with you people will think Im the bad guy.

Coach Herm knows more about football than Pat, myself and you put together. Could his prediction be wrong, heck yes. But he might be spot on as well.
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I for one certainly don't think that you are "the bad guy." Just that your thought process may be a little misguided.

From a well-known British writer of children's book:
“If you want someone to tell you what to think," the phantom answered briskly, without looking up, "you will never be short of people willing to do so.”
― Frances Hardinge, Fly by Night
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CloakNNNdagger said:
I for one certainly don't think that you are "the bad guy." Just that your thought process may be a little misguided.

From a well-known British writer of children's book:
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There you go again insulting my intelligence. Im 42 ( will be 43 this month)so please don't ever talk to me like I'm a child Doc.

My thought process on this is not misguided either.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I love Savages's high take off. As tall as Osweiler was, his take off (ear level) made him more equivalent to a 6' tall QB.

1024x1024.jpg
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I think that was a ball Hopkins threw back to him and Savage was pointing to it thinking "Is Nuk going to do this in a real game?"
 
Texansballer74 said:
There you go again insulting my intelligence. Im 42 ( will be 43 this month)so please don't ever talk to me like I'm a child Doc.

My thought process on this is not misguided either.
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Because I quoted a children's book? Far from insulting you. On the other hand, I'm not going to stand by and let anyone take away my ability to put forth my independent opinions/assessments by trying to entirely devalue them.
 
Texansballer74 said:
There you go again insulting my intelligence. Im 42 ( will be 43 this month)so please don't ever talk to me like I'm a child Doc.

My thought process on this is not misguided either.
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Herm Edwards is on the outside looking in just like everyone else is.. yes he knows more about football, but he's also now a member of the media himself and doesn't know what the hell the Texans are planning, he's taking a simple response that O'Brien made to a question in camp and is trying to run with it and say Watson is going to be the starter and that's his way of telling his players. He's making assumptions..so honestly how does this make him any different than any other talking head in the media, especially on that crappy network?

Bill O'Brien doesn't send messages through the press... he sends nothing through the press. His statements to the press are worthless and if you're trying to get something from a statement it's a waste of time. "Watson is further along than any rookie QB I've coached"... have you bothered to look at the rookie QB's he's coached? Not exactly a ground breaking statement there.

Why didn't Herm bring up these quotes?..

“I think that there’s no substitute for experience,” O’Brien said “So, I think it’s hard to ask a guy to come in straight from college and Day One he’s a starter on your team".

Or

“As a rookie quarterback it’s a big jump, Tom is our starter and Deshaun will come in and he’s going to work hard and we’re going to teach him and feed him a lot of information and he’ll work at it.”

Or
While the debate rages over which quarterback, Tom Savage or Deshaun Watson, will win the Houston Texans quarterback battle, head coach Bill O’Brien made it clear he has learned from his past mistakes in handling the showcase position. O’Brien emphatically stated the Texans will not switch quarterbacks on the fly in 2017.

“No, I’m not going to do that,” O’Brien told USA TODAY Sports in an interview Saturday. “I’ve done that before. I’m not going to alternate quarterbacks in and out of there. I don’t think that’s good for the team.”
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Savage will be the starter until it's apparent he can't handle it, he gets hurt, or the team starts losing games, until that happens Watson will be patiently waiting his turn, because Savage has been running with the ones all camp.

So yes, Herm knows more X's and O's..but when it pertains to this or Bill O'Brien.. he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about and doesn't have anymore of a clue or insight than the rest of us..he's just speculating... JUST like everyone else on the outside looking in.
 
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Texansballer74 said:
There you go again insulting my intelligence. Im 42 ( will be 43 this month)so please don't ever talk to me like I'm a child Doc.

My thought process on this is not misguided either.
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I don't think he waz trying to insult you. Just reaffirming his position, which I think he's wrong.

I do wonder why Herm Edwards' opinion finally got you to coming around & seeing the light though. This was predicted the day we drafted Watson. It's a snowball. The Texans will drop praise here & there. Media will start doing the same. Eventually the Texans will be less & less cryptic until they eventually announce Watson will be our starter.

Tomorrow night watch how Watson gets his team in &out of the huddle. Watch his drops. If he's getting the ball out on time, on the third step of a three step drop, the fifth step of a five step drop, or the seventh step of a seven step drop, he'll definitely be starting with the first team week 2.

Even if he doesn't get the ball out on time, watch how decisive he is on progressing to the next phase. Is he waiting for his first read to work open? Is he scanning the entire field? Did he check it down to his safety outlet. Does he feel the pressure but hang in? Does he cut & run? Does he get rid of the ball? If he makes good decisions in those situations I'd still expect the accolades to continue & the snowball to continue gaining mass & momentum.

& cutting & running isn't always a bad decision. Sometimes it's the best decision , sometimes the worse.
 
badboy said:
Oh God please don't let O'Brien call any 5 step drops....
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He just needs to know when to mix them in there, like a right cross. You leave yourself open when you use it, but if you mix it up with the jab well enough, you'll be alright.
 
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