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The Actual And Real 2016 Texans' Talk Mock Draft Extravaganza

TexansSeminole said:
In regards to the close QB competition, they both were poor players. I don't understand how the handling of the close competition is any indication of how OB would handle literally anything else.

That situation seems straight forward to me. Hoyer better practice habits, earns job. He sucks, go to backup who is only slightly worse. Backup sucks and is worse in practice. Back to original starter. Straight forward.

That situation has zero bearing on how I view OB's approach to anything.
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I don't know where you came up with the close QB competition. I didn't say anything about that. Maybe I'm misunderstanding this conversation

edit: Oh I see, TK's second point was about close QB competition and I didn't even look at that
 
We're all in, for at least a year and likely two, on the Brockweiler. So let's make this the best possible football team we can to help ensure his success. A project QB in the first does not do that. We can decide next offseason between Os, Savage, and a draft pick/fa if Brock is shaky.

This years first rounder should be counted on to make this team better while Osweiler is on the field.
 
Mollywhopper said:
We're all in, for at least a year and likely two, on the Brockweiler. So let's make this the best possible football team we can to help ensure his success. A project QB in the first does not do that. We can decide next offseason between Os, Savage, and a draft pick/fa if Brock is shaky.

This years first rounder should be counted on to make this team better while Osweiler is on the field.
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If I were the GM and the draft fell this way I would strongly consider trading up for Fuller/Coleman.
 
PapaL said:
You don't think a TE or a Slot WR would provide the same? Serious question.
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Yes and if BOB thinks Coleman/Fuller can play the slot (Which I believe they can) then now would be a great time to trade up.

I'm not all that jazzed about Hunter but if he were to be there at 52 I wouldn't have a problem with that pick. I wouldn't trade up for him though.

In this scenario give me Coleman/Fuller in the 2nd and Higbee in the 4th.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Meh, I don't know about that. They needed a backup, I think he was drafted to be that, with also a shot to be a future starter if things went awry with Griffin.

Either way, intention doesn't mean a lot to the subject at hand. That strategy worked for them.
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I find it curious that we say, "That strategy worked for them."

They drafted RGIII & Cousins in 2012, won their division, were one & done in the play offs.

In 2012, we won our division. Our division also sent a wild card team. We advanced to the divisional round..

In 2013, the Redskins go 3-13, largely due to unstability at the QB position.
We went 2-14, largely due to unstability at the QB position.

2014, Redskins are 4-12, still dealing with QB/Coach/& other personnel issues.
We're 9-7, working through QB/Coach/& other personnel issues. We miss the playoffs. Lots of woulduv, shoulduv, coulduvs..... but still.

2015, Redskins win the worst division in the NFC with a 9-7 record, again they're one & done. Spanked by a not so good Packers team 18-35 & the game wasn't that close.

We win the worst division in the AFC with a 9-7 record, for the first time in our history, we're one & done. Spanked by a fairly competitive KC Chiefs team, 30-0 & the game wasn't that close.

But it worked for them, because they "found" their QB. I'm not taking anything away from Cousins, I hope he turns out to be the best QB in that division for the next 10 years. But that's all it is now, hope. No different than the hope we've got for Osweiler. Not the way I'd have gone about it, but it looks like this strategy "worked" for us.

I think our chances of winning the division with Luck returning is a lot higher than the Redskins' chances with Romo returning. A lot better.
 
thunderkyss said:
I find it curious that we say, "That strategy worked for them."

They drafted RGIII & Cousins in 2012, won their division, were one & done in the play offs.

In 2012, we won our division. Our division also sent a wild card team. We advanced to the divisional round..

In 2013, the Redskins go 3-13, largely due to unstability at the QB position.
We went 2-14, largely due to unstability at the QB position.

2014, Redskins are 4-12, still dealing with QB/Coach/& other personnel issues.
We're 9-7, working through QB/Coach/& other personnel issues. We miss the playoffs. Lots of woulduv, shoulduv, coulduvs..... but still.

2015, Redskins win the worst division in the NFC with a 9-7 record, again they're one & done. Spanked by a not so good Packers team 18-35 & the game wasn't that close.

We win the worst division in the AFC with a 9-7 record, for the first time in our history, we're one & done. Spanked by a fairly competitive KC Chiefs team, 30-0 & the game wasn't that close.

But it worked for them, because they "found" their QB. I'm not taking anything away from Cousins, I hope he turns out to be the best QB in that division for the next 10 years. But that's all it is now, hope. No different than the hope we've got for Osweiler. Not the way I'd have gone about it, but it looks like this strategy "worked" for us.

I think our chances of winning the division with Luck returning is a lot higher than the Redskins' chances with Romo returning. A lot better.
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That's a fair assessment when you frame it that way.

Another way to look at it is to say that the Redskins at the time were in a highly competitive division. It only was poor this past year. They had some success with RG3, but then he regressed. Osweiller may have the same experience, early success met by failure. But Washington's backup plan was able to come in and show some promise. It's been up and down for him, but he was quite good this past year.

The point isn't so much in comparing the team's records either. The point is to look at their options at the position. They had them. Obviously, they are an outlier, but you would think teams will take that lesson and apply it to their draft strategies. You ain't going anywhere without a QB, plain and simple. So, addressing other needs is futile unless you plan on hitting the FA lottery (we did that this year but it's still a question mark) or plan on drafting one at some future time, a situation in which the success rate is almost always as high as taking one in any given year.

You can never go wrong with options at QB. Think about how often a 1st rounder busts. We too often think that taking a developmental QB in round 1 means we don't get a productive, potential star. It doesn't always work that way. Sometimes you get nothing out of a guy, regardless of position. In looking at this kind of strategy, you need to actively think about how none of these guys are sure things.

I also disagree that our chances of winning our division, which is weaker to be honest, are higher than Washington winning theirs.
 
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He is assuming that Romo is healthy, that's a big IF.

Also based off free agency the Texans will take a bigger leap forward. They added two key playmakers (Miller/Osweiler)
where there was none (Hoyer/Foster).

You don't have to be a homer to recognize Texans aggressive offseason approach. Maybe it works, maybe it don't but I'll take O'Brian over Gruden going into year three anyday!
 
Why did that discussion turn into comparing the Redskins and the Texans and who is better? That was a discussion about draft strategy. I will not follow the straw man and derail the thread.
 
Draft strategy is greatly affected by Free Agent strategy. And both take a back seat to injury "strategy."
 
TexansSeminole said:
Why did that discussion turn into comparing the Redskins and the Texans and who is better? That was a discussion about draft strategy. I will not follow the straw man and derail the thread.
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The main point, is that I don't see drafting a developmentalguy in the first equivalent to drafting Cousins behind RGIII.

Osweiler is our first round pick more or less. We're bringing him in to be our starter. Savage is our developmental, just in case guy. I know the timing is different. But he basically serves that role.
 
steelbtexan said:
If I were the GM and the draft fell this way I would strongly consider trading up for Fuller/Coleman.
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Cecil Shorts is a better slot WR than both of these guys for at least 2 years AND he's currently under contract. We just haven't had a legit starting opposite WR and he's been forced to play out of position.

I would prefer to use the functional pieces that we have than always trying to replace and neglect our worthless positions on the field.

EDIT: Just saw his contract ends this year. Re-Sign him and get a #2 anyways
 
I won't be around when the clock runs out if Texian misses the pick so y'all will have to come to a consensus so we can put the next team on the clock and get moving. Texian still has about 40 minutes so hopefully he shows up in time but I'll get the discussion going just in case.

San Diego has major needs at TE and S. They could also be looking for a future QB. And they could use depth at WR, interior OL, interior DL (34 DE or NT), and ILB.

They hit the secondary already with Ramsey. Honestly, this is a great spot to grab the first TE off the board. The value matches up and they need help there badly.
 
If your team is in desperate need of OLine help it's tough to look past the Texas school many love to hate. They say he's got some work to do to cut it as a Tackle in the NFL. OK, cool, we got 2 pretty good tackles when healthy and we just lost "arguably" the best Guard in the NFL. So you got time to learn to play the edges.

And if Ricky Wags doesn't get back to where he was in 2014, I guess you start earlier than later on the edges, but I think Ricky Wags is gonna bounce back this contract year season.

B Ravens select:

Germain Ifedi - OT/OG - Texas A&M - 6'6" - 324 lbs.

url
 
Apologies. I haven't had any free time to help or participate with the mock. Go ahead and group pick my teams. If I can I will pop in and PM someone my top 5.
 
thunderkyss said:
The main point, is that I don't see drafting a developmentalguy in the first equivalent to drafting Cousins behind RGIII.

Osweiler is our first round pick more or less. We're bringing him in to be our starter. Savage is our developmental, just in case guy. I know the timing is different. But he basically serves that role.
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Lol you're Arguing semantics. and in doing so You act as if we draft a qb at 22 the cost is higher than what Washington gave up for their two QBs. It's not even close. They gave up #2, 6, 22, 39 and 102 basically for RG3 and Cousins. And if they hadon't done that RG3 would be gone now and they would be right back at ground zero. Cousins still has a lot to prove but I would take him over Osweiler right now.
 
mussop said:
Lol you're Arguing semantics. and in doing so You act as if we draft a qb at 22 the cost is higher than what Washington gave up for their two QBs. It's not even close. They gave up #2, 6, 22, 39 and 102 basically for RG3 and Cousins. And if they hadon't done that RG3 would be gone now and they would be right back at ground zero. Cousins still has a lot to prove but I would take him over Osweiler right now.
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This is for the draft and the drafts discussion can we please move this subject somewhere else. I didn't much care for scrolling through a bunch of arguing comparing our situation to another teams to find out if picks were made
 
TexansFTW said:
Cecil Shorts is a better slot WR than both of these guys for at least 2 years AND he's currently under contract. We just haven't had a legit starting opposite WR and he's been forced to play out of position.

I would prefer to use the functional pieces that we have than always trying to replace and neglect our worthless positions on the field.

EDIT: Just saw his contract ends this year. Re-Sign him and get a #2 anyways
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Agreed, If and it's a big if Shorts is healthy.

Coleman and Fuller add a big part of what this offense is missing, speed. I'm always for upgrading all positions and WR2 tops my list. Which positions do you consider worthless?
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed, If and it's a big if Shorts is healthy.

Coleman and Fuller add a big part of what this offense is missing, speed. I'm always for upgrading all positions and WR2 tops my list. Which positions do you consider worthless?
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I don't consider any positions worthless. I was referring to the players we (Texans) have at certain positions. I think that Jaelen Strong made a decision to put himself into the worthless category and I've seen too many of these losers make poor decision after poor decision which is why I am done w/ Strong. I am looking to replace him 100%, and if he proves me wrong, then added player on the field.

Mumphrey is our current #2. He is worthless. I don't think Coleman and Fuller can be much more successful as a team's #2 than Cecil Shorts. Those guys are both slot WRs IMO. I'd prefer to look elsewhere. If we choose to pass on Doctson round #1 hopefully we take Michael Thomas round 2.

As for other worthless positions on the field for the Texans in my humble order:

TE
LDE
SS
FS
C
LG
RT
QB
 
TexansFTW said:
I don't consider any positions worthless. I was referring to the players we (Texans) have at certain positions. I think that Jaelen Strong made a decision to put himself into the worthless category and I've seen too many of these losers make poor decision after poor decision which is why I am done w/ Strong. I am looking to replace him 100%, and if he proves me wrong, then added player on the field.

Mumphrey is our current #2. He is worthless. I don't think Coleman and Fuller can be much more successful as a team's #2 than Cecil Shorts. Those guys are both slot WRs IMO. I'd prefer to look elsewhere. If we choose to pass on Doctson round #1 hopefully we take Michael Thomas round 2.

As for other worthless positions on the field for the Texans in my humble order:

TE
LDE
SS
FS
C
LG
RT
QB
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If Mumphrey is who you consider to be WR2 then you made a great case for drafting a WR high. Where we disagree is the type of WR we want. I want a Coleman/Fuller type deep threat. You want a Strong type WR2. I believe Strong will be fine. He comes from a good family. Now whether Strong has the ability/work ethic to be a differencemaker is another question.

I see Coleman/Fuller as a John Brown type WR.
 
steelbtexan said:
If Mumphrey is who you consider to be WR2 then you made a great case for drafting a WR high. Where we disagree is the type of WR we want. I want a Coleman/Fuller type deep threat. You want a Strong type WR2. I believe Strong will be fine. He comes from a good family. Now whether Strong has the ability/work ethic to be a differencemaker is another question.

I see Coleman/Fuller as a John Brown type WR.
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Strongs been working all off-season if you remember when he got arrested he was out in Arizona working with Savage. He is currently back out there working with Osweiler and everyone else. Maybe we shouldn't worry about his work ethic, but just hope he doesn't go hang out with more of his asu friends lol
 
steelbtexan said:
If Mumphrey is who you consider to be WR2 then you made a great case for drafting a WR high. Where we disagree is the type of WR we want. I want a Coleman/Fuller type deep threat. You want a Strong type WR2. I believe Strong will be fine. He comes from a good family. Now whether Strong has the ability/work ethic to be a differencemaker is another question.

I see Coleman/Fuller as a John Brown type WR.
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You know Strong got popped for weed and is suspended right? I loved the pick last year. I hate the player today. Good family or not, he didn't show he came from anywhere with good decision making on this one.

EDIT: Apparently not suspended yet, he will be though, and probably suspended again after that. The way of Josh Gordon and Martavis Bryant.
 
TexansFTW said:
You bastard dude, you didn't even need him as bad as me and you waited until the zero hour to screw me

I had that garbage written up last night, you just panic picked him to burn me
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As Ozzie would say, "Stay true to your board." :)
 
TexansFTW said:
You know Strong got popped for weed and is suspended right? I loved the pick last year. I hate the player today. Good family or not, he didn't show he came from anywhere with good decision making on this one.
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Strong has not been suspended yet although a 1 game suspension is likely.
 
TexansFTW said:
You positive he's not already in the program? A lot of times we don't know these players are already in the program or not until they receive their first suspension.
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Given that they haven't announced an automatic 4 game suspension and there isn't a whisper of prior offenses I don't think so, but no, not positive.
 
TexansFTW said:
You know Strong got popped for weed and is suspended right? I loved the pick last year. I hate the player today. Good family or not, he didn't show he came from anywhere with good decision making on this one.

EDIT: Apparently not suspended yet, he will be though, and probably suspended again after that. The way of Josh Gordon and Martavis Bryant.
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PFT speculated that the suspension will end up being one game. Right now there's no reason to believe Strong has had any previous incidents, or has ever failed a test for banned substances. If and when that changes, we can start comparing him to Gordon and Bryant.
 
Shishkabob said:
Strongs been working all off-season if you remember when he got arrested he was out in Arizona working with Savage. He is currently back out there working with Osweiler and everyone else. Maybe we shouldn't worry about his work ethic, but just hope he doesn't go hang out with more of his asu friends lol
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This is for the draft and the drafts discussion can we please move this subject somewhere else. I didn't much care for scrolling through a bunch of arguing about Strongs offseason.
 
Lol. I knew that was coming.

Look. We are always gonna get a little derailed, that's what makes it fun. A by the book "I take bla bla at pick X" gets boring. We gotta have a bit of banter and back and forth.

Scrolling 1 entry never killed anyone on a message board.
 
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