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Clowney, then what?

Bill O'Brien sees Clowney as a 'team guy'
O'Brien's response when asked on "SportsCenter" about his dinner with South Carolina defensive lineman Jadeveon Clowney last night stood out to me.

"I think he’s a team guy," O'Brien said after South Carolina's pro day. "He talked a lot about his teammates. He talked a lot about how much he enjoyed being around the guys in the locker room playing games with them, practicing with them, lifting weights with them. I got the feeling this guy is a team guy."
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I would not be upset at all with Clowney. In fact, if we aren't taking TB, Clowney is who I'd go with hands down.

But I get the feeling that he's greasing this up just right. Talking Clowney up big for a trade down.
 
Say Watt said:
Would love this. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't think I can continue rooting for the Texans if they don't pick Manziel. What I'm saying is I don't know how I can keep rooting for this franchise if they choose Clowney. I want nothing to do with him.

Can anyone name me a pass rusher that was taken in the top 5 that had a season with less than 5 sacks? That is simply atrocious. Yes, I know he is big, strong, and has good straight line speed. But as I said before, the guy's agility is nothing special, he has no pass rush moves, and his work ethic isn't the best (also isn't the worst). I just don't see at all what makes this guy worthy of being a #1 pick, let alone the best prospect of the last decade like some make him out to be.
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Any Texan fan should be able to answer that question pretty quickly. And that guy turned out to be pretty good. And if I had a choice between the two of them I'm taking Clowney every time.

Anyway, no point in getting upset about a top pick hypothetically putting up less than 5 sacks before he even suits up. Could just as easily break Aldon Smith's rookie record of 14 sacks, its a crapshoot. I don't see why everyone picks their guy they want at #1 and then everyone else must suck. Much more likely that most/all of the top players picked this year go on to be tremendously successful as professionals than there being only 1 guy that pans out.
 
Say Watt said:
Would love this. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't think I can continue rooting for the Texans if they don't pick Manziel. What I'm saying is I don't know how I can keep rooting for this franchise if they choose Clowney. I want nothing to do with him.

Can anyone name me a pass rusher that was taken in the top 5 that had a season with less than 5 sacks? That is simply atrocious. Yes, I know he is big, strong, and has good straight line speed. But as I said before, the guy's agility is nothing special, he has no pass rush moves, and his work ethic isn't the best (also isn't the worst). I just don't see at all what makes this guy worthy of being a #1 pick, let alone the best prospect of the last decade like some make him out to be.
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Lions at #5 last year drafted Ziggy Ansah who only had 4.5 sacks his last year at BYU.
 
Who is going to make the biggest impact on the Texans? If that's Clowney, if he fits the smart, talented, hard working versatile player O'Brien says he wants then pick him #1. If not go get who you think best fills that need if you can't trade down.


:fans:
 
Texian said:
I believe that Clowney got out of 2013 exactly what he put in to it 2013.

When his Head Coach was asked about Clowney's work habits, he shrugged his shoulders and said, "ehhh, they were OK" and then listed a bunch of players that Clowney was not....I didn't see that as a ringing endorsement for the player. I believe that statement says a whole lot more than Coach Spurrier was willing to say.
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That statement that Spurrier never said "says a whole lot more" than what he was willing to say...

Are you serious?

His direct quote was:
"His work habits are pretty good"
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I'll have to find the video & see if he shrugged his shoulders... I don't remember him doing so.
 
You guys are all so gullible. You should read Playoff's thread about misdirection and throwing off the trail.

When a head coach is enamored with a potential #1 pick and keeps saying as much, making it seem like they are the pick, they are never the pick.

Run Down...

2013 - Eric Fisher, draft day surprise, it was always Luke J until the clock struck midnight and Fisher was holding the Jersey

2012 - Easiest draft pick in years, most unquestioned prospect to come out since Peyton, before him Elway, yet up until he was signed in advance of the draft there were SEVERAL TV Scouts/analysts saying don't be shocked if RG3 is the pick

2011 - Cam Newton - Completely out of left field. He was never even an option to most, majority of analysts had Gabbert ahead of Newton (until about ~1ish weeks before the draft) and most had Newton out of the top 10 picks (in big boards, not mocks). I remember hearing more Pat Peterson #1 talk than Cam.
 
TexansFTW said:
Run Down...

2013 - Eric Fisher, draft day surprise, it was always Luke J until the clock struck midnight and Fisher was holding the Jersey

2012 - Easiest draft pick in years, most unquestioned prospect to come out since Peyton, before him Elway, yet up until he was signed in advance of the draft there were SEVERAL TV Scouts/analysts saying don't be shocked if RG3 is the pick

2011 - Cam Newton - Completely out of left field. He was never even an option to most, majority of analysts had Gabbert ahead of Newton (until about ~1ish weeks before the draft) and most had Newton out of the top 10 picks (in big boards, not mocks). I remember hearing more Pat Peterson #1 talk than Cam.
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None of these are really analogous, though; Fisher was an unknown, a late riser that edged out Joeckel at the last minute rather than being this consensus #1 prospect for years running, and plenty of people had Cam going to Carolina. Your point about Luck actually enforces the idea that Clowney is the pick, if nothing else.
 
bhsman said:
None of these are really analogous, though; Fisher was an unknown, a late riser that edged out Joeckel at the last minute rather than being this consensus #1 prospect for years running, and plenty of people had Cam going to Carolina. Your point about Luck actually enforces the idea that Clowney is the pick, if nothing else.
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Luck (a) plays the premier position and (b) didn't have near as many warts as Clowney. Those two aren't comparable at all.
 
bhsman said:
None of these are really analogous, though; Fisher was an unknown, a late riser that edged out Joeckel at the last minute rather than being this consensus #1 prospect for years running, and plenty of people had Cam going to Carolina. Your point about Luck actually enforces the idea that Clowney is the pick, if nothing else.
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1. Late riser? 1-2 days before the pick he became better than Luke J? I happen to believe he was always the pick. I don't believe in flipping coins or waiting until the clock strikes zero to decide on the pick.

2. Plenty of people the day before the pick when Cam had already had the visit to Carolina and the GM basically said he's going to be the face of the franchise?

Or plenty of people that were at the same exact point in the draft (about a month out) that we are at today where everything is still going back and forth in the wind and riding fences?

This is what I remember, and I found documentation that supports my memory:

3/21/11

The majority is quickly shifting towards Blaine Gabbert as the top overall pick. He had a good-enough pro day and is considered the safer pick of the two.

The Panthers have scheduled a visit and workout with Cam Newton, something they haven't done with Gabbert yet, and is the more attractive prospect.

Some mockers feel the Panthers will draft the top player on the board, regardless of position.

Lorge - Cam Newton, QB, Auburn
Kiper - Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri
McShay - Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama
Rang - Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri
Reuter - Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri
Bunting - Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn
Banks - Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri
Brooks - Cam Newton, QB, Auburn
Kirwan - Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
Nawrocki - Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/641738-2011-nfl-mock-draft-kiper-mcshay-10-experts-battle/page/2

3. See InfantryCak's post above mine.
 
infantrycak said:
If my Aunt had nuts...

If Leinart had come out in 2005 he almost certainly would have gone #1.

He didn't come out last year.
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To be fair, he couldn't come out last year. There's little doubt he would have if he could have.

I think there was too much risk for no real reward in him playing all out last year. The best case scenario would be that he has the same kind of season as his redshirt freshman year and goes #1 overall. The worst would be a career altering injury (which, let's not forget greatly impacted his teammate Marcus Lattimore's own draft prospects -- I'm sure that weighed on Clowney's mind). He was going to lose little, if anything, by protecting himself from injury -- as shown by him still potentially being the #1 overall pick.
 
Alright - Let's see if we get the "fair and balanced" response to Clowney's latest comments. One player already got raosted about a chip on his shoulder growing, how about this one?

And if the Texans still wind up going with a quarterback and Clowney were to somehow fall to the Jaguars at No. 3 overall? Well, that would be all right with Clowney because he'd get to see Houston twice a season, since both teams are in the same division.

"I have to make them miserable," Clowney told reporters, with a smile, when asked what he would do to the Texans if they passed on him.
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Link
 
Oh no!!!

Such a dilema...Pass on Clowney...He makes us miserable...

Pass on Manziel, and......Doritos


Both vow to haunt us.....What ever shall we do?!
 
85


Gus Bradley illuminates: http://www.jaguars.com/media-galler..._Bradley/f99a9575-9732-4a54-af40-e69b8e89e7b5

Post presser: http://www.jaguars.com/media-galler..._Clowney/71a1bf6e-45c9-434e-9e84-6ef09307afd4
 
SC defensive coordinator on 610 right now talking clowney and Swearinger

Says Swearinger got on Clowney (for a mistake, taking a play off? He didn't say) one day during practice and he felt like it made them a better team. Swearinger was definitely a leader.
Says Swearinger is a real student of the game...Will study, study, and study some more. Works really hard to understand his and his opponents weaknesses and strengths and how he can use that.

Clowney is a WOW! athlete. Spoke with Obrien and gave positive review of Clowney.
Thinks having Clowney and Swearinger on the same defense would be a good fit.
 
Sigma said:
I'm not totally against clowney, but I had exactly 0 fun last year watching JJ

well, maybe a bit more than 0... not enough tho
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I was thoroughly entertained, all year long... at least through half-time. Then my Sunday kinda nose-dived (dove?)
 
As we are considering him with the #1 pick we need to assess how confident he is. Hence what does his girlfriend look like, or is that a QB specific measure?

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houstontexans.com
 
mussop said:
Where do you get that he has no pass rush moves?
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This

Tough as it might be to make sense of how Clowney might struggle converting his athleticism into NFL production, Zierlein's information falls somewhat in line with the recent critique former Cleveland Browns general manager Phil Savage provided on Clowney. Savage contends that Clowney's raw, straight-line speed, while incredibly impressive, won't buy him many sacks in the NFL if he lacks the change-of-direction skills to bend around the top of the pocket.

"The question on Jadeveon Clowney in a nutshell is how much lateral change of direction does he have in space?," Savage said. "Because there are films from this past year where he missed sacks when the quarterback moved and escaped on him."
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And this

Even given all of the great skills and athleticism Clowney showed on film, there are some real concerns to his game that were substantiated by NFL scouts. They agreed that Clowney is extremely raw rushing the quarterback, lacking any real pass-rush moves other than his "slap and arm-over" move, which is not polished. He tends to get very high before trying to execute that move, so deliberate in his setup that he gives the move away. He does not consistently rush aggressively, and if the pass blocker stops his initial rush, he tends to get tied up chicken fighting with the blocker. Most players whose motor is inconsistent compete hardest as a pass rusher and quit against run blocks, but Clowney is the opposite, a dominant run defender who rarely makes an impact rushing the passer. Disappointed with his play in junior-season games, I went back and evaluated his play against Michigan at the end of South Carolina's 2012 season, to see if his production was different before his bone spur injury. Unfortunately, there was no difference in terms of his intensity, consistency or overall production. Amazingly, the highlight-reel hit that Clowney made on Michigan running back Vincent Smith was the first play that Clowney made that game, and it came in the third quarter (although it was the first of four consecutive plays he made).
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Jackie Chiles said:
Any Texan fan should be able to answer that question pretty quickly. And that guy turned out to be pretty good. And if I had a choice between the two of them I'm taking Clowney every time.

Anyway, no point in getting upset about a top pick hypothetically putting up less than 5 sacks before he even suits up. Could just as easily break Aldon Smith's rookie record of 14 sacks, its a crapshoot. I don't see why everyone picks their guy they want at #1 and then everyone else must suck. Much more likely that most/all of the top players picked this year go on to be tremendously successful as professionals than there being only 1 guy that pans out.
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My apologies for not being more specific. I meant in his last season of college football. Clowney got a whopping 3 sacks last year. The Clowney lovers will respond with him being double and triple teamed all year, but that's precisely what happens to every single dominant college or pro players. The truly elite overcome the double and triple teams to still have successful seasons.

Like I have said, I want nothing to do with Jadeveon Clowney.

AngryNateFTW said:
Lions at #5 last year drafted Ziggy Ansah who only had 4.5 sacks his last year at BYU.
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Thanks! A good player no doubt.
 
Say Watt said:
My apologies for not being more specific. I meant in his last season of college football. Clowney got a whopping 3 sacks last year. The Clowney lovers will respond with him being double and triple teamed all year, but that's precisely what happens to every single dominant college or pro players. The truly elite overcome the double and triple teams to still have successful seasons.
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Donald and Attaochu were double teamed most of the season and both were able to put up double digit sacks.

Clowney only dropped in coverage one time and was quickly beaten for a TD against Wisconsin.
 
mussop said:
Where do you get that he has no pass rush moves?
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The tape. He's beyond raw on film even with his 2012 film. He doesn't combinate with his rush. Its either upfield speed or bull. He doesn't do both which is what top flight pass rushers can do. Think about freeney. Upfield,upfield,upfield,then he will bend and bull or bend and spin. Freeney is shorter,ok, watch jared allen who is the same size or a guy like strahan. They could convert on your setup. If strahan got you to double kick for the speed,he would bend into the tackle a put that guy in the qbs lap.

I like some of the stuff clowney can do.I like his 1st step quickness, especially when he shoots a gap. He will be a good player vs undisciplined pocket qbs. He's better against the run than what he's given credit for. Personally, I think he will be a lot better vs the run as a pro than he will ever be as a pass rusher. He might be better as a lde like chris long because he's good vs the run. If you watch all the pass rush vs lt in college, the ones he beat were upfield rushes. When he pass rushed against guys 1 v 1, he stgruggled. Some would say they formationed and it stalled him on his decision making. He's not the 1st nor the last de to be given a formation look of a double team even when they didn't double team. It didn't stop miller,watt,aldon,quinn or others.

Jumping over bags grabbing tennis balls has 0 to do with football. Clowney will always look great in drills because he's very athletic. Can he transform athletic gifts into football field dominance? Those are my concerns and doubts.even the bum from ohio state was awesome in drils and had a very good,much better last yr than clowney and look at him.gholston was this super duper freak also and even rex couldn't make him a football player.we will see or not see based on the private workout.
 
Playoffs said:
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That's the guy who would always steal your McDonald's French Fries when you were little. Go get him.
 
I'd be stoked if they took this guy. Clowney next to JJ and Cush behind him could be the foundation of a monster defense, especially with RAC calling plays.
 
Just so we are clear on this matter.

When we are in the 3-4, who amongst you is projecting Clowney as 3-4 OLB and who is projecting him as a 3-4 end?

I think we all agree that when we are in the Nickel or Dime JDC would be rushing the passer with his hand in the dirt right?
 
_King_ said:
I would not be upset at all with Clowney. In fact, if we aren't taking TB, Clowney is who I'd go with hands down.

But I get the feeling that he's greasing this up just right. Talking Clowney up big for a trade down.
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The only thing I don't like about Clowney is the work ethic risk. We don't get to see the stuff that really shows a player's work ethic, which obviously makes it hard to evaluate. If he truly is a hard worker with a "let's go out and win this thing no matter what" kind of attitude, I would take him too.

I worry a little bit about sheme fit, but I don't doubt that we can get an athlete like him in a position to be successful.

_King_ said:
And they were Atlanta Hawks Cheerleaders...

twins-proc_crop_exact.jpg
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Officially distracted.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Just so we are clear on this matter.

When we are in the 3-4, who amongst you is projecting Clowney as 3-4 OLB and who is projecting him as a 3-4 end?

I think we all agree that when we are in the Nickel or Dime JDC would be rushing the passer with his hand in the dirt right?
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I'm not sure anymore and really it might not matter much.

Obrien said he expects to be in nickel 70% of the time. He said Watt will be playing a 4 tech and will be one-gapping mostly.

Sounds like they want a more modern version of Wade's defense to me with the ability to two gap if needed.

Or maybe some weird mixture of the two.

Going to be a fun season for me I think. I love what OB is talking about doing offensively and defensively. Doing things I yearned for the last staff to do.

So if they take Clowney...I just don't know...I just think it'll be creative and fun to watch. Might see him stand up one play...Then play DE the next...Who knows...

Maybe it changes from game to game.

I think the players are going to love playing for this guy. He said he plans on Moving Watt around a lot and not giving the defense consistent looks. Don't see why it'd be any different for Clowney.
 
Double Barrel said:
I'd be stoked if they took this guy. Clowney next to JJ and Cush behind him could be the foundation of a monster defense, especially with RAC calling plays.
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This. Nobody really knows what any player is going to do once they get to this level. There are just so many things that can go wrong (or right). All I know is Clowney is the only guy I see who looks "special" in this bunch.

We got lots of QB's who all look good and plenty of other prospects at other positions who look good too but this is the only prospect I see who looks like he might be a 1-1. If we can't move the pick I think you gotta take a shot at a player who could be special.
 
I could get behind the Clowney pick if they've identified a QB that they really like we can snag in rounds 2 or 3. My problem is if that guy is not there then there can't be any reaching going on just for the sake of grabbing a QB. It doesn't make sense to waste a pick when you're not completely sold that guy could possibly turn into a starter.

That's my fear in this situation. Clowney isn't a reach at all at #1, but taking him could possibly lead to reaching later on in the draft. Is Van Noy at #33 really that much of a downgrade with what we'll be doing in our defense?
 
Texn4life said:
I could get behind the Clowney pick if they've identified a QB that they really like we can snag in rounds 2 or 3. My problem is if that guy is not there then there can't be any reaching going on just for the sake of grabbing a QB. It doesn't make sense to waste a pick when you're not completely sold that guy could possibly turn into a starter.

That's my fear in this situation. Clowney isn't a reach at all at #1, but taking him could possibly lead to reaching later on in the draft. Is Van Noy at #33 really that much of a downgrade with what we'll be doing in our defense?
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But you don't reach at #1 to keep yourself from later reaching at #33. We all see things maybe a little differently but for me I explained why I'd go ahead and take the shot at Clowney first overall. If we did that and they didn't see a guy at #33 or beyond who they believed in I'd roll with Fitz and Keenum for a year rather than reaching.

Just play evil defense for a season and win as many as we can. Come back at the problem in 2015 if necessary.
 
Hervoyel said:
But you don't reach at #1 to keep yourself from later reaching at #33. We all see things maybe a little differently but for me I explained why I'd go ahead and take the shot at Clowney first overall. If we did that and they didn't see a guy at #33 or beyond who they believed in I'd roll with Fitz and Keenum for a year rather than reaching.

Just play evil defense for a season and win as many as we can. Come back at the problem in 2015 if necessary.
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^^^This
 
My nfl.com app just sent me a headline that said, Texans want to know if Clowney can play the Willy McGinest role.

When I clicked the link the article disappeared now i can't find it.
 
“CLOWNEY IS MORE VIOLENT THAN ANYBODY I’VE EVER SEEN,” said the strength and conditioning coach.

On the sixth day God created Clowney and on the seventh day everyone was dead.

Brilliant Quote
 
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