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All encompassing Rick Smith thread

Texans_Chick said:
Given how the drafts are handled, it is hard to disentangle what is coaching, what is GMing.

I do not buy that this is a team that is chalk full of talent. I wouldn't want to be mandated to play a noob UDFA behind a inconsistent line, no healthy TEs/RBs.

Though the pick 6 fest was likely not predictable, the other roster composition/question mark issues were:

*right side of line
*RB health, and future of RB with Tate leaving
*Thin at TE for a team that uses 2 TE a lot, particularly with concerns on offensive line.
*a quarterback that had been in significant decline end of 2012, with no real plan of future replacement.
*hardly any NFL catches for any WRs not named Andre Johnson, and the route errors that come from that.
*no production from d linemen not named JJ Watt and Antonio Smith. Hoping to see something from Earl Mitchell that had never been seen from him.
*linebacker group was so thin, injured, inexperienced, that they tried out Brooks Reed at ILB during camp.
*safety. I don't want to even talk about it because it makes me stabby.
*corner. I don't crush JJo/KJ as much as some because they are asked to play man a ton without the pass rush, safeties that would help. But not their finest year, and all the other corners are a testament that you don't want Smith picking corners. (BTW, Frank Bush was a huge KJ supporter in that draft given his relationship with Saban).
*unproven kicker with no competition.
*little team speed in general, very little for special teams.

In an AFC that is wide open for those teams who didn't quit, Texans had a tough early schedule, had everything break bad, missed their high expectations and gave up the season by going all in on Keenum.

The case for Rick Smith is summed up by Jerome Solomon. The short version implies that McNair knows whose decisions were whose, and that Rick Smith wanted to (mortgage the cap) to get Peyton Manning, and coaches were um no.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...s-to-be-more-hands-on-with-Texans-5045386.php

I've talked to NFL folks outside the Texans who knew the relative cap situations of Denver, Titans, Texans, 49ers, and believe that there was no way that the Texans could have realistically been in running for teh Peyton. That Texans being floated as a name was all about negotiation leverage.

But theoretically, the reason why Rick Smith stays is because of deals he didn't do. Because he was so damn ineffectual and non-persuasive at his job, he wants credit for alternative histories that did not happen. And take zero responsibility for stupid stuff like having a team full of needs but getting old, broken, forever rabble rousing Ed Reed as the big off-season acquisition without bringing Wade Phillips as part of the decision making process. (An adult supervision GM woulda gone nah).

But boy howdy, now he seems to be bucking for more power given unnamed "front office" rumors.

Oh goody! So we get to see what Rick Smith looks like when he gets the training wheels kicked off. Nothing. I mean nothing in his background makes you go, "Whew, it is a good thing Rick Smith is handling this draft."

The process is set up for failure. Who wants to work for a "front office" who complains to people in the media as their head coach is recovering from stroking out? Personally, I like the clean house model where you pick the GM, let the GM pick the coach. How is it that the Texans want an experienced HC, but don't impose that same criteria to Rick Smith?
Click to expand...

Your hatred of Rick Smith is a little intense and disturbing. You take his actions far too personally. You may want to consider not renewing your season tickets. I think going to Reliant might be a bit much for you. I'm serious.

And, just for the record: While I think most of this team's problems has been coaching, Rick Smith should also be held accountable for a chunk of this mess. He is in no way blameless.


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Honoring Earl 34 said:
I guess my point was it was supposed to be RBBC . When they gave Foster the farm , it upset the pay scale . That's not how the Kubiak scheme was supposed to go . You pay a RB and a QB , you cut elsewhere .
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The Pencil Neck said:
Ah.

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with that, either. But I see your point.

You're saying that in a Shanahan/Kubiak system, we're supposed to be finding cheap RBs later in the draft and letting them go when they get too costly. So we should have let Foster walk instead of giving him a lot of money to keep him.
Click to expand...

The Shanahan/Kubiak scheme is acquiring RBs cheaply in terms of draft picks, roll through them until getting a hit and then ride that back out including giving them a contract or valuing them very highly.

Terrell Davis - given a big contract way before necessary in his 2nd season of his rookie contract.
Portis - traded for a top 3 CB plus the 2nd round pick spent to get him.
Foster - gave him his market value.
Morris - again not sharing the load 335 att. next most 23 att. in his rookie year ending 2nd in yds to AP and 2nd in TDs to Foster - you can guarantee the Skins will pay him.

Who are the good RBs they have let go to avoid paying?
 
WolverineFan said:
Running Back by committee would be like the Pats. They shuttle Ridley and Blount in and out of the backfield every game. They can't seem to decide on one and change up the rotation every week. Vereen plays RB and spends a lot of time in the slot. Bolden comes in and gets touches every game. They have 4 RB's who touch the ball a lot.
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Close. They've got two guys they think can be THE guy, but they continue to disappoint. Neither is particularly good at any one thing, but they're fairly good at everything.

New Orleans has a RBBC. They've got their usual guy, the third down guy, the goal line guy, the change of pace guy, the pass pro guy, & the guy who's going to take a lick.

Arian is THE guy. Whatever the situation calls for, he's the best we've got & one of the best in the league. If he were healthy, Kubiak would have run him in the dirt, to try to protect Case. Ben Tate isn't that guy & never was. He was the dog-house, but I ain't got anyone better guy.

Honoring Earl 34 said:
I guess my point was it was supposed to be RBBC . When they gave Foster the farm , it upset the pay scale . That's not how the Kubiak scheme was supposed to go . You pay a RB and a QB , you cut elsewhere .
Click to expand...

I don't get that either. In Denver, they always had THE guy until they didn't. Clinton Portis was traded for Champ Bailey because they kept striking out finding their own. Mike Anderson was hurt all the time & they had nothing but fodder. Orlandis Gary priced himself out of a good career with Denver, because he wasn't as good as he thought he was. They're not going to pay a guy because he broke 1000 yards one year. (More than likely I've got Anderson & Gary mixed up).

But Denver was more or less always looking for the guy after TD. Had they not traded Clinton Portis, he'd have been THE guy. Had the other guy not got the big head, he'd have been THE guy because he was good enough, not "special" like TD, Portis, or Foster.

You put a "special" guy in this "simple" system & you've got a Super Bowl contender.

Ben Tate's got some ability & he may very well be "special" but can't read the blocks & adjust on the fly like Arian can.
 
infantrycak said:
The Shanahan/Kubiak scheme is acquiring RBs cheaply in terms of draft picks, roll through them until getting a hit and then ride that back out including giving them a contract or valuing them very highly.

Terrell Davis - given a big contract way before necessary in his 2nd season of his rookie contract.
Portis - traded for a top 3 CB plus the 2nd round pick spent to get him.
Foster - gave him his market value.
Morris - again not sharing the load 335 att. next most 23 att. in his rookie year ending 2nd in yds to AP and 2nd in TDs to Foster - you can guarantee the Skins will pay him.

Who are the good RBs they have let go to avoid paying?
Click to expand...

Portis was the only high pick , same round as Tate . I think the Texans would have let Foster walk if they thought they thought the fans wouldn't blow up .

The point is they believe the system makes the player . TD was a late pick , Morris a late pick , Foster UFA , WR Rod Smith UFA , Shannon Sharpe 6th , MCaffery in a trade , and Walter for a 6th . The OL and DL had some high picks .

That was before hard caps and rule changes . Ground and pound is gone the way of the dodo bird .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Portis was the only high pick , same round as Tate . I think the Texans would have let Foster walk if they thought they thought the fans wouldn't blow up .

The point is they believe the system makes the player . TD was a late pick , Morris a late pick , Foster UFA , WR Rod Smith UFA , Shannon Sharpe 6th , MCaffery in a trade , and Walter for a 6th . The OL and DL had some high picks .

That was before hard caps and rule changes . Ground and pound is gone the way of the dodo bird .
Click to expand...

The point keeps shifting.

They do not believe the system makes the player. They run quite a few RBs through until they find the one who fits to exploit the system. The fact a team has had success with lower round picks doesn't mean they think all the players are fungible.

It is ludicrous to think they would have let Foster go but for fan reaction Name the RBs they have let go who were league leaders over money? For that matter, name when ANY team does that?
 
infantrycak said:
The point keeps shifting.

They do not believe the system makes the player. They run quite a few RBs through until they find the one who fits to exploit the system. The fact a team has had success with lower round picks doesn't mean they think all the players are fungible.

It is ludicrous to think they would have let Foster go but for fan reaction Name the RBs they have let go who were league leaders over money? For that matter, name when ANY team does that?
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I know he was longer into his career but the Texans got Ahmad Green and he was already done . Roger Craig left the 9ers , Eric Dickerson was traded , players leave .

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7429732/chris-brown-gary-kubiak-houston-texans-running-game
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I know he was longer into his career but the Texans got Ahmad Green and he was already done . Roger Craig left the 9ers , Eric Dickerson was traded , players leave .
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I guess I was unclear - let players get away when they are league leaders not let players who had once been league leaders get away.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Given how the drafts are handled, it is hard to disentangle what is coaching, what is GMing.

I do not buy that this is a team that is chalk full of talent. I wouldn't want to be mandated to play a noob UDFA behind a inconsistent line, no healthy TEs/RBs.

Though the pick 6 fest was likely not predictable, the other roster composition/question mark issues were:

*right side of line
*RB health, and future of RB with Tate leaving
*Thin at TE for a team that uses 2 TE a lot, particularly with concerns on offensive line.
*a quarterback that had been in significant decline end of 2012, with no real plan of future replacement.
*hardly any NFL catches for any WRs not named Andre Johnson, and the route errors that come from that.
*no production from d linemen not named JJ Watt and Antonio Smith. Hoping to see something from Earl Mitchell that had never been seen from him.
*linebacker group was so thin, injured, inexperienced, that they tried out Brooks Reed at ILB during camp.
*safety. I don't want to even talk about it because it makes me stabby.
*corner. I don't crush JJo/KJ as much as some because they are asked to play man a ton without the pass rush, safeties that would help. But not their finest year, and all the other corners are a testament that you don't want Smith picking corners. (BTW, Frank Bush was a huge KJ supporter in that draft given his relationship with Saban).
*unproven kicker with no competition.
*little team speed in general, very little for special teams.

In an AFC that is wide open for those teams who didn't quit, Texans had a tough early schedule, had everything break bad, missed their high expectations and gave up the season by going all in on Keenum.

The case for Rick Smith is summed up by Jerome Solomon. The short version implies that McNair knows whose decisions were whose, and that Rick Smith wanted to (mortgage the cap) to get Peyton Manning, and coaches were um no.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/solomon/article/McNair-needs-to-be-more-hands-on-with-Texans-5045386.php

I've talked to NFL folks outside the Texans who knew the relative cap situations of Denver, Titans, Texans, 49ers, and believe that there was no way that the Texans could have realistically been in running for teh Peyton. That Texans being floated as a name was all about negotiation leverage.

But theoretically, the reason why Rick Smith stays is because of deals he didn't do. Because he was so damn ineffectual and non-persuasive at his job, he wants credit for alternative histories that did not happen. And take zero responsibility for stupid stuff like having a team full of needs but getting old, broken, forever rabble rousing Ed Reed as the big off-season acquisition without bringing Wade Phillips as part of the decision making process. (An adult supervision GM woulda gone nah).

But boy howdy, now he seems to be bucking for more power given unnamed "front office" rumors.

Oh goody! So we get to see what Rick Smith looks like when he gets the training wheels kicked off. Nothing. I mean nothing in his background makes you go, "Whew, it is a good thing Rick Smith is handling this draft."

The process is set up for failure. Who wants to work for a "front office" who complains to people in the media as their head coach is recovering from stroking out? Personally, I like the clean house model where you pick the GM, let the GM pick the coach. How is it that the Texans want an experienced HC, but don't impose that same criteria to Rick Smith?
Click to expand...


I don't know of another NFL franchise more tight lipped than the Texans. This organization has had very few leaks, leaving those of us very focused on following them to make another of guesses and assumptions based on very, very little information. All that is to say that I doubt outsiders considering working for the Texans will avoid the situation because it appears more dysfunctional than most- Well, usually when a coach has quit or been fired there is some dysfunction that is evident.. but those are the only opportunities available in the NFL... Consider other NFL jobs likely to be available and how those organizations would appear regarding issues like integrity: Washington Redskins (umm, no), Dallas Cowboys (umm, no), Detroit Lions, Oakland Raiders?, NYJets... not exactly the picture of healthy and happy workplaces.

Also, I think it is important to consider Rick Smith's situation. His role, certainly until 2011, was designed so that his only recourse to protect himself and aid the organization when he saw errant decisions being made would be to say, "Bob, this is an issue. I think we need to do "A" and Gary is going to do "B"... As a Kubiak supporter, I can forgive Rick for that "betrayal". As a Texan fan, I'm thankful for it and for the role that played (I believe) in arresting control of the defense from Kubiak so we could get a competent defensive coordinator in Houston.

All in all, I'm not sold of Rick Smith but am hopeful and interested to see how the organization looks with his leadership. I have significant trust in his ability to acquire and assess personnel and ability to make the tough decision... I do worry about his ability to lead- hire and articulate direction and a vision to coaches... We will see.
 
2012Champs said:
Sorry you cant get 1 great player and 2-3 above avg players every year. The math simply doesnt work either in cap room, number draft picks, draft success or number of players on a team. How many great and above avg players do you plan on losing every year to reach the "new" figures every year?
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See that's where I think you're wrong. Take this yr for instance. You could draft Clowney (Potentially great) Mettenberger (Has as much potential as any QB in this draft. (Morgan Moses Solid OT on a bad team) then trade up into the 3rd rd and draft a solid LB like Skov that's 4 solid day 1 starters. Then in rds Comp pick 5-7 you start drafting guys like Exum (Coming off injury) or Dyer/Crowell who proved they can be good on the major college level. But like to smoke weed. If they bust you really haven't lost anything. That's 4-6 players that can be added in this yrs draft that should help rebuild the foundation of this franchise.

In a regular draft you should be able to draft atleast 1 stud in the 1st rd and if you wanted to trade up using lower rd picks say like a 2-3/5th for instance you should be able to add 2 first rd picks that can cntribute immediately. In addition to adding the injured/troubled guys in rd.4-6-7. If 1 of these guys work out you get a 1-2nd rd talent in the 5th/6th rd. If they start smoking pot again what have you really lost a late rd draft pick. This way you get your 3 big time contributors. This is just one example of how to add guys. The Seahawks built there entire secondar minus Earl Thomas using this theory. Same with the 49ers.

BoB/Rick/Charley/Gary make this stuff sound like brain surgery. It's not, you just have to do your homework and be willing to take risks on talented/injured players with Character flaws in the late rds. Teams that win do this regularly, and until the Texans get in the game they will continue to be a hit or miss winning team and never a true SB contender. IMHO

How many impact players did the Texans lose this offseason? 2-3? Quin/Cody/Barwin/Walter/Casey? Who else did they lose that you would say was a true impact player? They had 4 picks in the 1st 3 rds to replace these guys. If your going to be a pay your guys a kings ransom (BoB/Rick/Gary's choice) your going to lose guys. That's the way the system is set up. How do you replace them? By doing the hard work and hitting on 3-4 guys a yr.

The Texans haven't done this and are currently sitting at 2-14 for this reason. Of course with BoB there's very little accountability or the Texans wouldn't have Rick still as their GM or be in the current cap hell they are in because Rick misread the tea leaves when it came to the level of salary cap increases before the CBA was signed. Good GM's did well with this, unfortunately Rick is not a good GM.
 
I maintain my stance that the Texans cap situation isn't nearly as bad as many of you are convinced it is.

Not sure that this is going to change anyone's mind, but here's a chance for everyone to play Texans GM and manage the cap with this little cap management tool toy. It's also helpful to look at other teams' cap, since the Texans cap doesn't exist in a vacuum; it exists in competition with 31 other teams.

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
They did a bunch of wheeling and dealing in 2012 . The kept Foster and lost Mario , Demeco , Eric Winston , Dreesen , and Briesel .
Click to expand...

These kinds of decisions (hard decisions along with extending Schaub ) are what lead to Gary's downfall. Too much loyalty which I'm sure Rick was also involved in doomed Gary.

BTW, Gary did an outstanding job coaching last yr. Consider he was working with most of the same OL as last yrs OL. The difference is Schaub fell off of a cliff one yr after signing a big extention. But the truth is Rick/Gary should've known not to re-up Schaub. One of our own C-N-D warned us at the time that this was going to be Schaub's fate and some didn't want to listen.

I wonder if BoB/Rick/Gary consulted the Texans team orthopods before signing Schaub to that big extention? If they did and the Texans team Doc's signed off on that extention then they should be fired at the end of the yr too. IMHO
 
steelbtexan said:
These kinds of decisions (hard decisions along with extending Schaub ) are what lead to Gary's downfall. Too much loyalty which I'm sure Rick was also involved in doomed Gary.

BTW, Gary did an outstanding job coaching last yr. Consider he was working with most of the same OL as last yrs OL. The difference is Schaub fell off of a cliff one yr after signing a big extention. But the truth is Rick/Gary should've known not to re-up Schaub. One of our own C-N-D warned us at the time that this was going to be Schaub's fate and some didn't want to listen.

I wonder if BoB/Rick/Gary consulted the Texans team orthopods before signing Schaub to that big extention? If they did and the Texans team Doc's signed off on that extention then they should be fired at the end of the yr too. IMHO
Click to expand...

I forgot about Schaub .

I do remember CnD saying that Schaub would have a hard time .
 
paycheck71 said:
I maintain my stance that the Texans cap situation isn't nearly as bad as many of you are convinced it is.

Not sure that this is going to change anyone's mind, but here's a chance for everyone to play Texans GM and manage the cap with this little cap management tool toy. It's also helpful to look at other teams' cap, since the Texans cap doesn't exist in a vacuum; it exists in competition with 31 other teams.

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans
Click to expand...

I don't know how to make Schaub a June 1st cut. But as is, I can cut him, Jjo, Manning, OD, McCain, Jamison, Newton, Keo, Bullock, Bouye, Tuggle, Starling, Kupper, Keenum, & Lemon & we've got $32M to work with.

I wouldn't necessarily cut Jjo, I'd rather renegotiate & make Schaub a June 1st cut....... then we'll end up with about the same $32M.

I'd make Antonio, Joe Mays, Greg Jones, & Garrett Graham offers to stay, negotiating their contracts & bonuses to cost $8-$10 million against the 2014 cap. I'd commit to each one of those guys for two years, Graham as much as 4.

That would leave me about $20M to find an ILB, outside pass rusher, safety, & a vet QB.

In the draft, I'm looking for a RT, QB, & outside pass rusher on the first day (first three rounds, I don't remember if 3rd round is on the first day or not). Second day I'm looking for OL, safeties, & LBs. Any potential solid player will do, but I'm especially looking for those positions.

Oh yeah.... TEs too.
 
steelbtexan said:
These kinds of decisions (hard decisions along with extending Schaub ) are what lead to Gary's downfall. Too much loyalty which I'm sure Rick was also involved in doomed Gary.

BTW, Gary did an outstanding job coaching last yr. Consider he was working with most of the same OL as last yrs OL. The difference is Schaub fell off of a cliff one yr after signing a big extention. But the truth is Rick/Gary should've known not to re-up Schaub. One of our own C-N-D warned us at the time that this was going to be Schaub's fate and some didn't want to listen.

I wonder if BoB/Rick/Gary consulted the Texans team orthopods before signing Schaub to that big extention? If they did and the Texans team Doc's signed off on that extention then they should be fired at the end of the yr too. IMHO
Click to expand...


2012 was different & we didn't have the same options to free up money as we do this year. I was never a Winston fan, but I'm pretty sure Kubiak was. He'd have kept Winston if at all possible. At the very least, they expected the cap to stay the same as it was before the lock-out. Then it wouldn't have been so bad. But the cap went down, they weren't expecting that & cutting Winston was the proof.

& though the end result was the same, Schaub's issues were not related to his LisFranc. Schaub's problem, I think, was that he was told that he has to make plays, make things happen. He started double thinking himself, telegraphing his passes, & missing his reads.

I'm not a big fan of Matt Schaub, but he's not the scrub he's being made out to be. Had he not gotten hurt in St Louis, we could possibly be fighting for an outside chance at a play-off berth, like San Diego, Detroit & Dallas. We'd definitely need help, but we wouldn't be preparing for the draft.

I liked the contract at the time. It gave Schaub 2 seasons to prove he deserved Romo money. He got starter money. Though he was not a Super Bowl QB, he was definitely a starter.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't know how to make Schaub a June 1st cut. But as is, I can cut him, Jjo, Manning, OD, McCain, Jamison, Newton, Keo, Bullock, Bouye, Tuggle, Starling, Kupper, Keenum, & Lemon & we've got $32M to work with.

I wouldn't necessarily cut Jjo, I'd rather renegotiate & make Schaub a June 1st cut....... then we'll end up with about the same $32M.

I'd make Antonio, Joe Mays, Greg Jones, & Garrett Graham offers to stay, negotiating their contracts & bonuses to cost $8-$10 million against the 2014 cap. I'd commit to each one of those guys for two years, Graham as much as 4.

That would leave me about $20M to find an ILB, outside pass rusher, safety, & a vet QB.

In the draft, I'm looking for a RT, QB, & outside pass rusher on the first day (first three rounds, I don't remember if 3rd round is on the first day or not). Second day I'm looking for OL, safeties, & LBs. Any potential solid player will do, but I'm especially looking for those positions.

Oh yeah.... TEs too.
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Sounds like a great plan to me. I doubt Rick will will have the foresight to see a plan like this thru. I wonder how much of a cut JoJo/Antonio will be willing to take. I think JoJo is due 11 mil next yr and Antonio 9 mil. I would be willing to split 11 mil between them and if they dont take it let them move on and move forward with the rebuilding project.
 
This might be the most depressing football-related thread that I have ever read in 9 years of this forum.

I deeply appreciate the objectivity in it from all angles, too. I gives a big picture look at the mentality and perspectives of the true Texans fans, the faithful through a 12 game losing streak. It's a collective that certainly provides a variety of perceptions, but one thing seems to be a common thread through just about every take: this team feels like it has some fundamental flaw(s) in its foundation.

And there is also sort of a melancholy resignation about all of it, too. The drop from 12-4 to 2-12 will do that to a fan base.

As far a Rick Smith goes, I have a feeling that he's going to be here awhile. He is family to McNair. Godfather to Bob's grandchild. That is a bond there that goes beyond just a professional relationship. That is a deeply personal situation and one that I think allows Smith to be given every chance beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's a process that could take a very long time to final resolution.

Maybe I'm wrong. But he gave Kubiak 8 years, and probably would have kept him this season if it was not such an obvious dismal failure. I have no doubt that Rick Smith gets that same loyalty, and then some.

I just hope he's worth it.
 
Double Barrel said:
This might be the most depressing football-related thread that I have ever read in 9 years of this forum.

I deeply appreciate the objectivity in it from all angles, too. I gives a big picture look at the mentality and perspectives of the true Texans fans, the faithful through a 12 game losing streak. It's a collective that certainly provides a variety of perceptions, but one thing seems to be a common thread through just about every take: this team feels like it has some fundamental flaw(s) in its foundation.

And there is also sort of a melancholy resignation about all of it, too. The drop from 12-4 to 2-12 will do that to a fan base.

As far a Rick Smith goes, I have a feeling that he's going to be here awhile. He is family to McNair. Godfather to Bob's grandchild. That is a bond there that goes beyond just a professional relationship. That is a deeply personal situation and one that I think allows Smith to be given every chance beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's a process that could take a very long time to final resolution.

Maybe I'm wrong. But he gave Kubiak 8 years, and probably would have kept him this season if it was not such an obvious dismal failure. I have no doubt that Rick Smith gets that same loyalty, and then some.

I just hope he's worth it.
Click to expand...

Rick Smith the Godfather, somehow with the way the Texans org is run this seems appropriate. The fans of this team are screwed. Hope I'm wrong.
 
steelbtexan said:
I think JoJo is due 11 mil next yr and Antonio 9 mil.
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Antonio is a free agent next year. There is nothing in our cap allotted for him.

paycheck71 said:
That option should be in the list of available transactions. Moves $7MM of the cap hit from 2014 to 2015. So, now you'd have $39MM next year.
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Right, I just used cutting Jjo as a way to get the $7M for moving Schaub to a June 1st cut. Moving Schaub to a June 1st, I wouldn't cut Jjo, instead I'd renegotiate, thinking the net sum would be $32. For me, it's a one or the other thing.
 
Double Barrel said:
This might be the most depressing football-related thread that I have ever read in 9 years of this forum.

I deeply appreciate the objectivity in it from all angles, too. I gives a big picture look at the mentality and perspectives of the true Texans fans, the faithful through a 12 game losing streak. It's a collective that certainly provides a variety of perceptions, but one thing seems to be a common thread through just about every take: this team feels like it has some fundamental flaw(s) in its foundation.

And there is also sort of a melancholy resignation about all of it, too. The drop from 12-4 to 2-12 will do that to a fan base.

As far a Rick Smith goes, I have a feeling that he's going to be here awhile. He is family to McNair. Godfather to Bob's grandchild. That is a bond there that goes beyond just a professional relationship. That is a deeply personal situation and one that I think allows Smith to be given every chance beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's a process that could take a very long time to final resolution.

Maybe I'm wrong. But he gave Kubiak 8 years, and probably would have kept him this season if it was not such an obvious dismal failure. I have no doubt that Rick Smith gets that same loyalty, and then some.

I just hope he's worth it.
Click to expand...
Supposedly Rick Smith was jobbing Kubiak behind his back to save his own skin. Nice gesture from Smith who wouldn't be here without Kubiak. Who would want to work for this kind of a guy? I think its a huge mistake not cleaning house.
 
Vinny said:
Supposedly Rick Smith was jobbing Kubiak behind his back to save his own skin. Nice gesture from Smith who wouldn't be here without Kubiak. Who would want to work for this kind of a guy? I think its a huge mistake not cleaning house.
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Yes, but as you know most people in this fan base would rather ignore things like this until it's so glaringly obvious that it's effected the team drastically. I think Smith has done a nice job in first round picks, but a lot of those picks have had a lot to do with who Wade told him to pick and Kubiak in that regard. I really have no idea why Smith collects a pay check, but I think he cozied up so well to Bob Mcnair that he has become like family to him. It feels like anyone can get really close to Bob and earn his unconditional trust.
 
Just my opinion of Rick Smith based on situation the Texans are in presently.
The GM has to be concerned with the long term view of the team. Rick has been year to year worried about saving his job. He should have traded Tate this year when we might have got a 1st round draft choice for him just to point out most recent example.

See Morey for Rockets he built up talent and used them as chips to continuously make the Rockets a force. Smith just rents his players or overpays for others. (See Reed, Schaub, and others)

I can hear it now " Rick Smith just can't improve this team because of the cap."
Guess what Smith is the reason the Texans are in this situation.

McNair thinks this team is much more talented than it really is. That is the main reason I guess McNair hasn't gotten rid of Smith. Seriously Smith is the person in the brain trust with the most football knowledge on this organization? We are still drowning then.

See his resume and highlights
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/st...3-5f875710e9b2

Schaub, Yates, Brooks Reed, Mercilus, trading DeMeco, KJ, and Crick are mentioned as a few of his GREAT moves. SERIOUSLY!!!!?????

I am still pissed because I see at BEST intermittent success for this franchise.

Kind of like "Even a blind hog finds an acorn" I think sums up our time with Smith in charge.

Also don't like snakes. The right thing was for Smith to fall on the sword also instead of using it to stab Kubiak.

Tired of the excuse that maybe he didn't make the decisions. His role should have been to make the decisions. If he didn't make the decisions then what did he do, and why all of the sudden is he going to be qualified now to make decisions. If he did make the decisions then they were bad. Either way for his tenure here he has done nothing but make friends with McNair.

Just my opinion. I hope I am wrong.
 
TheIronDuke said:
A first but Tate was in his last year of his contract and TR was a high first round pick just a year prior. Comparing the two is moronic.
Click to expand...

So now we have nothing for Tate except the compensation pick.
I guess we just disagree on Rick Smith. Hope you are right about him.
 
gafftop said:
So now we have nothing for Tate except the compensation pick.
I guess we just disagree on Rick Smith. Hope you are right about him.
Click to expand...

Dude, I can't stand Smith, if you read at the beginning and all through this thread you'd see that. I think he's terrible at drafting outside the first round and want him gone more than I want Wade out. I just don't think we'd have been able to get anything for Tate, certainly not a first.

Also, want to apologize for calling the comparison moronic, having a bad day.
 
gafftop said:
So now we have nothing for Tate except the compensation pick.
I guess we just disagree on Rick Smith. Hope you are right about him.
Click to expand...

You have unrealistic expectations for trades. This is not basketball. There are not that many trades in the NFL.

Here is a list for this season - Link

Only four are identified as involving picks in the 3rd or higher - Trent Richardson, Alex Smith, Darelle Revis and Percy Harvin.
 
steelbtexan said:
These kinds of decisions (hard decisions along with extending Schaub ) are what lead to Gary's downfall. Too much loyalty which I'm sure Rick was also involved in doomed Gary.

BTW, Gary did an outstanding job coaching last yr. Consider he was working with most of the same OL as last yrs OL. The difference is Schaub fell off of a cliff one yr after signing a big extention. But the truth is Rick/Gary should've known not to re-up Schaub. One of our own C-N-D warned us at the time that this was going to be Schaub's fate and some didn't want to listen.

I wonder if BoB/Rick/Gary consulted the Texans team orthopods before signing Schaub to that big extention? If they did and the Texans team Doc's signed off on that extention then they should be fired at the end of the yr too. IMHO
Click to expand...

I was wondering why you were calling for consultation with team bugs, but I looked it up and bugs are Arthropods, not Orthopods. My memory is going.
 
paycheck71 said:
That option should be in the list of available transactions. Moves $7MM of the cap hit from 2014 to 2015. So, now you'd have $39MM next year.
Click to expand...

This kind of thinking is what got us in cap trouble in the first place. Take the entire hit in 2014 so the cap space is available to reup Watt in 2015. You have to plan ahead. The alternative is to sign Watt before deadline and shift most of his salary in 2015 to bonus money.
 
TheIronDuke said:
A first but Tate was in his last year of his contract and TR was a high first round pick just a year prior. Comparing the two is moronic.
Click to expand...

Just because ???? made a stupid mistake in the first place and Indianapolis made a mistake by taking them off the hook doesn't mean we could have found someone equally stupid to trade with.
 
Marshall said:
Just because ???? made a stupid mistake in the first place and Indianapolis made a mistake by taking them off the hook doesn't mean we could have found someone equally stupid to trade with.
Click to expand...

He was in the last year of his contract, that alone means nobody is giving a first. I can't believe anyone could argue otherwise.
 
Lord Bills said:
rick smith is the new marciano.

pencil him in for another decade until Mcnair fires him.
Click to expand...

Just so you know, you "pencil" someone in if you expect them to be fired at any moment or if you expect them not to show. You "pencil" them in because you can erase it. If you write them in ink, then you're saying they're permanent because they can't be erased.

By penciling Smith in for a decade, you're saying he could be let go tomorrow... which... Is not what you're trying to say.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Just so you know, you "pencil" someone in if you expect them to be fired at any moment or if you expect them not to show. You "pencil" them in because you can erase it. If you write them in ink, then you're saying they're permanent because they can't be erased.

By penciling Smith in for a decade, you're saying he could be let go tomorrow... which... Is not what you're trying to say.
Click to expand...
I just wanted to say that I enjoyed the use of the word 'pencil' executed flawlessly 3 times (and 2x in quotations) in that last post by "The Pencil Neck".


It's gonna be a long offseason for me.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Just so you know, you "pencil" someone in if you expect them to be fired at any moment or if you expect them not to show. You "pencil" them in because you can erase it. If you write them in ink, then you're saying they're permanent because they can't be erased.

By penciling Smith in for a decade, you're saying he could be let go tomorrow... which... Is not what you're trying to say.
Click to expand...

Shhhh...he's smarter, more handsome, and more successful than any of us will ever be. He can't be wrong.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Just so you know, you "pencil" someone in if you expect them to be fired at any moment or if you expect them not to show. You "pencil" them in because you can erase it. If you write them in ink, then you're saying they're permanent because they can't be erased.

By penciling Smith in for a decade, you're saying he could be let go tomorrow... which... Is not what you're trying to say.
Click to expand...

Indelible ink.

Rick took the a** kissing so far that he's BoB's grandsons godfather.

That takes some seroius a** kissing over a number of yrs. Unless I'm wrong Texans fans should expect a decade or more of misery. Cal isn't going to fire his sons Godfather even after BoB is dead and gone.

Great things in the future? 2-14
 
steelbtexan said:
Indelible ink.

Rick took the a** kissing so far that he's BoB's grandsons godfather.

That takes some seroius a** kissing over a number of yrs. Unless I'm wrong Texans fans should expect a decade or more of misery. Cal isn't going to fire his sons Godfather even after BoB is dead and gone.

Great things in the future? 2-14
Click to expand...

I thought that it was the other way around: that Cal was Rick's son's godfather?

Either way, the point stands: Rick is too close to the McNair family.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
steelbtexan said:
Only because winning isn't the top priority for BoB.
Click to expand...

McNairs want to win, they don't know how to win. McNair's "Commitment to Excellence" is absent Lombardi's "Commitment to Excellence". McNair's loyalty to Rick Smith is akin to Gary Kubiak's Good Old Boy, Buddy Plan.
 
steelbtexan said:
Only because winning isn't the top priority for BoB.
Click to expand...

Like it's that easy to build a winning franchise from scratch.

He's doing as well (arguably better) as the Jags, the Panthers, & the Browns. As well as (arguably better) than several teams that have been around longer..... the Cowboys, Buffalo, San Diego, Tennessee.

Yeah... we could be doing a lot better, but whatever it is you think McNair should have done in the last 10 years, one of those other teams did it, & it did not work.

It takes a string of several consecutive right moves to make a successful franchise.
 
Bump.

The season is over. Why does Rick Smith still have a job? Get this scrub out of here.


2007
Amobi Okoye (1) - Bust
Jacoby Jones (3) - OK
Fred Bennett (4) - Bust
Brandon Harrison (5) -Bust
Brandon Frye (5) - Bust
Kasey Studdard (6) - OK
Zac Diles (7) - Bust

2008

Duane Brown (1) - Good
Antwaun Molden (3) - Bust
Steve Slaton (3) - 1 good year
Xavier Adibi (4) - Bust
Frank Okam (5) - Bust
Dominique Barber (6) - Bust
Alex Brink (7) - Bust

2009

Brian Cushing (1) - Good
Connor Barwin (2) - Good
Antoine Caldwell (3) - Bust
Glover Quin (4) - Good
Anthony Hill (4) - Bust
James Casey (5) - OK
Brice McCain (6) - OK
Troy Nolan (7) - Bust

2010

Kareem Jackson (1) - OK
Ben Tate (2) - OK
Earl Mitchell (3) - OK
Darryl Sharpton (4) - OK
Garrett Graham (4) - Bust
Sherrick McManis (5) - Bust
Shelley Smith (6) - Bust
Trindon Holliday (6) - OK
Dorin Dickerson (7) - Bust

2011

JJ Watt (1) - Good
Brooks Reed (2) - OK
Brandon Harris (2) - Scrub
Rashad Carmichael (4) - Bust
Shiloh Keo (5) - Scrub
T.J Yates (5) - OK back-up
Derek Newton (7) - Scrub
Cheta Ozugwa (7) - Who?

2012

Whitney Mercilus (1) - OK, but not 1st round talent
DeVier Posey (2) - OK, but lots of better WRs were available
Brandon Brooks (3)
Ben Jones (4)
Keshawn Martin (4)
Jared Crick (4)
Randy Bullock (5)
Nick Mondek (6)

2013

DeAndre Hopkins (1)
D.J. Swearinger (2)
Brennan Williams (3)
Sam Montgomery (3)
Trevardo Williams (4)
David Quassenbery (6)
Alan Bonner (6)
Chris Jones (6)
Ryan Griffin (6)

Conclusion: Fire Rick Smith
 
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