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The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

wolf123 said:
This is his first training camp. Brice is one of the best nickle backs in the league.
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McCain has the nickel locked up, we know that. It would be nice to see Harris tAking the snAps Ball is getting. Then we can tell ourselves that he is on Jackson's heels. As it stands we're in deep doodoo if something happens to any of our CBs becAuse last years second round pick isn't getting time with the first lot seconds team defense. All we got is Ball....

Well, McMannis appears to be getting time behind Jjo.
 
i want to know what could kareem have done to better defend that pass.. i mean im watching the replay right now. kareem had him covered, i mean blanketed and brees made a good throw and lance moore is just a bit more athletic than kareem. if kareem turns early to locate the ball he probably loses moore and gives up an easier TD, he sticks to him and brees puts the ball in the air where only moore can get it..

i just think moore owns kareem, theres no other way to put it.

i wonder how joseph would have matched up with moore on the same play..

kareem needs a new gameplan when guarding this man i guess, jam him up harder at the line is the only remedy i see. if kareems on an island with moore, moore is going to win, hes faster and more athletic.
 
Premier said:
i want to know what could kareem have done to better defend that pass.. i mean im watching the replay right now. kareem had him covered, i mean blanketed and brees made a good throw and lance moore is just a bit more athletic than kareem. if kareem turns to locate the ball he probably loses moore and gives up an easier TD, he sticks to him and brees puts the ball in the air where only moore can get it..

i just think moore owns kareem, theres no other way to put it.

i wonder how joseph would have matched up with moore on the same play..

kareem needs a new gameplan when guarding this man i guess, jam him up harder at the line is the only remedy i see. if kareems on an island with moore, moore is going to win, he faster and more athletic.
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I've went back and watched the whole game and kareem really didn't have a bad night at all. Are pass rush was terrible most of the game, couldn't guard screens and Graham was other worldly.:kitten:
 
bhsman said:
The Saints were killing it with the 3-step drops, it really took the bite out of the pass rush.
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Their OL is really freakin good too .... I was impressed with the way they handled the rush even on longer developing plays , seemed to always funnel everything backside allowing for Brees to step up. When he avoided pressure he didnt go backwards , he went forward or to the side.
 
Premier said:
i want to know what could kareem have done to better defend that pass.. i mean im watching the replay right now. kareem had him covered, i mean blanketed and brees made a good throw and lance moore is just a bit more athletic than kareem. if kareem turns early to locate the ball he probably loses moore and gives up an easier TD, he sticks to him and brees puts the ball in the air where only moore can get it..

i just think moore owns kareem, theres no other way to put it.

i wonder how joseph would have matched up with moore on the same play..

kareem needs a new gameplan when guarding this man i guess, jam him up harder at the line is the only remedy i see. if kareems on an island with moore, moore is going to win, hes faster and more athletic.
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This, and especially the underlined part.

A DB should turn his head only when he's in good position (in stride or ahead of the receiver), otherwise he will only loose seperation.

We talked about how Allen was in the trail position on a post route last season.
The QB hit the receiver on the shoulder pad, allowing Allen to grab the receiver's arm (barely) and not letting him pull in the pass.

Allen never turned his head (for the same reason).
If that ball was placed perfectly like the one Brees threw, it would have a long TD pass "given up" by Allen.

I also mentioned a 53 yd TD pass Allen gave up to Wallace (when Allen was with the Dolphin).

Allen was also in trail position, but as soon as he tried to turn his head, he lost Wallace and gave up the TD.
 
Premier said:
i want to know what could kareem have done to better defend that pass.. i mean im watching the replay right now. kareem had him covered, i mean blanketed and brees made a good throw and lance moore is just a bit more athletic than kareem. if kareem turns early to locate the ball he probably loses moore and gives up an easier TD, he sticks to him and brees puts the ball in the air where only moore can get it..

i just think moore owns kareem, theres no other way to put it.

i wonder how joseph would have matched up with moore on the same play..

kareem needs a new gameplan when guarding this man i guess, jam him up harder at the line is the only remedy i see. if kareems on an island with moore, moore is going to win, hes faster and more athletic.
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That was a hell of a throw ....
 
One example of locating the ball is the long pass play Ball gave up the long pass in the Panthers game.

He had the receiver pinned to the side line and he was ahead of the receiver.
He was in great position but never turned his head and therefore gave up the catch.

An example of when not to turn his head was the pass Ball gave up to A Jenkins in the Niners game.

He gave Jenkins too much room along the side line.
When he turned his head, he lost Jenkins who veered to the outside to catch the pass.
Only the receiver knows exactly where the ball is going; the DB doesn't
 
Corrosion said:
Their OL is really freakin good too .... I was impressed with the way they handled the rush even on longer developing plays , seemed to always funnel everything backside allowing for Brees to step up. When he avoided pressure he didnt go backwards , he went forward or to the side.
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Brees is a magician in the pocket...
 
kareems mental clock needs to be triggered a second sooner... this picture speaks volumes...

[imgwidthsize=650]http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/getty/2012/09000d5d82b45aa1.jpg[/IMG]
 
Kareem has struggled with the long ball. I'm not going to over analyze it.

He just hasn't been good making plays on the ball down the field.

He's good to really good with stuff in front of him, but down the field he struggles.

I'd like to see him play more cover two honestly. Maybe wade can design something where Kareem plays some more short zones where he excels.
 
Premier said:
kareem needs a new gameplan when guarding this man i guess, jam him up harder at the line is the only remedy i see. if kareems on an island with moore, moore is going to win, hes faster and more athletic.
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the amazing part about this is that moore was undrafted while kareem was a first rounder.
 
On the plus side, he made that shoe string tackle that got the RB Ivory stumbling for Quin to force the fumble.

Jackson did turn his head around when he was in stride with Henderson earlier in the game on a long ball.

A good throw and good catch was all there is to it.
The CB doesn't know if the receiver will run toward the post or cut toward the pylon or go straight or go for the backshoulder fade like that one.

That was a hell of a back-shoulder fade.
There's no way a DB can turn his head on that play.

Calling that a struggle is simply over-reacting, I'm sorry to say.
 
I hope KJ doesn't try and cover Calvin Johnson on Thanksgiving day. That would really ruin my day of joy and bliss. Instead of laying on the couch dozing off with a full belly of tryptophan, I'll be consuming large amounts of alcohol and throwing stuff at the tv while screaming long tirades of foul (it is turkey day) language.
 
bckey said:
I hope KJ doesn't try and cover Calvin Johnson on Thanksgiving day. That would really ruin my day of joy and bliss. Instead of laying on the couch dozing off with a full belly of tryptophan, I'll be consuming large amounts of alcohol and throwing stuff at the tv while screaming long tirades of foul (it is turkey day) language.
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Calvin Johnson is a physical freak and is going to provide match up problems with every secondary he faces this year. I would be more upset if someone like Titus Young does that to our secondary.
 
76Texan said:
Premier said:
if kareem turns early to locate the ball he probably loses moore and gives up an easier TD
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This, and especially the underlined part.

A DB should turn his head only when he's in good position (in stride or ahead of the receiver), otherwise he will only loose seperation.
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Unless you've got a coach that knows what he's talking about. Once the ball is in the air, who cares what that receiver is doing? A DB should read the man, his eyes, face, hands, hips... use those clues to determine when the ball is in the air, turn & locate it... doesn't matter where the WR is, play the ball.

Now that should only be one of the techniques used by a CB to do his job. It should be used frequently, but there are cases where it isn't practical. I can't think of one off the top of my head, but I'm sure there is one.
 
Rey said:
Kareem has struggled with the long ball. I'm not going to over analyze it.

He just hasn't been good making plays on the ball down the field.

He's good to really good with stuff in front of him, but down the field he struggles.

I'd like to see him play more cover two honestly. Maybe wade can design something where Kareem plays some more short zones where he excels.
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Brees destroys cover 2.
 
Premier said:
kareems mental clock needs to be triggered a second sooner... this picture speaks volumes...

[imgwidthsize=650]http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/getty/2012/09000d5d82b45aa1.jpg[/IMG]
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Yeah its almost as if he just looks back to make the coaches and fans think he's trying to locate the ball. That is hilarious though TBH
 
All this cant keep up with the WR if he tries to locate the ball stuff is B.S. J.J does it fine, Aaron Glenn did it fine, Reeves, Aso, All top notch CBs can keep looking back trying to locate the ball and not lose his WR. But yet KJ cant ?!?!?!?

Hmmm do we need to hang a handy cap sign on the front of his helmet since he cant do what all the greats can do. :spin:
 
b0ng said:
Calvin Johnson is a physical freak and is going to provide match up problems with every secondary he faces this year. I would be more upset if someone like Titus Young does that to our secondary.
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He will. KJ looks like he was mentored by Jaques Reeves. And yes Bong I know Calvin Johnson is a physical freak.
 
EllisUnit said:
All this cant keep up with the WR if he tries to locate the ball stuff is B.S. J.J does it fine, Aaron Glenn did it fine, Reeves, Aso, All top notch CBs can keep looking back trying to locate the ball and not lose his WR. But yet KJ cant ?!?!?!?

Hmmm do we need to hang a handy cap sign on the front of his helmet since he cant do what all the greats can do. :spin:
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Clearly never watched Reeves play....:kitten:
 
Fiddler said:
Unless you've got a coach that knows what he's talking about. Once the ball is in the air, who cares what that receiver is doing? A DB should read the man, his eyes, face, hands, hips... use those clues to determine when the ball is in the air, turn & locate it... doesn't matter where the WR is, play the ball.

Now that should only be one of the techniques used by a CB to do his job. It should be used frequently, but there are cases where it isn't practical. I can't think of one off the top of my head, but I'm sure there is one.
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Go look at these 4 plays - all in the second quarter.
The defenders were also in trail position.
None of them attempted to turn his head to look at the ball.
That includes D. Manning, Quin, and B. James (twice);


1-10-HST 33 (12:51) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass incomplete deep middle to J.Graham.
PENALTY on HST-B.James, Defensive Pass Interference, 22 yards, enforced at HST 33 - No Play.

1-10-HST 28 (7:19) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass incomplete deep right to J.Graham (D.Manning).
Manning played the same technique I mentioned and was able to defend the pass; even though it may have been Demps who was the one that knocked the ball out.

3-3-HST 21 (6:36) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass incomplete deep left to J.Graham (B.James) [M.Alexander].
On this one, James may have been a little early (and probably made contact with the TE before the ball arrived) but at any rate, he also played the same technique I mentioned and was able to defend the pass.

1-10-NO 23 (2:04) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass deep right to J.Graham pushed ob at HST 20 for 57 yards (D.Manning) [B.James].
Penalty on NO-J.Graham, Illegal Touch Pass, declined.
PENALTY on HST-T.Jamison, Personal Foul, 15 yards, enforced at NO 23 - No Play.
On this one, Quin wasn't able to defend the pass but he was right there (but missed the tackle - about 20 yards from the LOS.)

At the end of the day, they all played the same technique as Jackson when they were in the same trail position.
That is what they were taught to do.


On the other side of the ball, on one play the CB P Robinson was using his help inside. It's OK for him to try to locate the ball, he was ahead of AJ.
But he did it too early (before the receiver makes the break).
AJ got immediate seperation from him. Luckily for him, the safety made a good read and reacted quickly to come up and break up the pass.

3-12-NO 39 (10:26) (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass incomplete deep left to A.Johnson (M.Jenkins).
 
Kareem was in good position on the TD to Moore, but Brees made a perfect throw and that was a great catch as well. He was also just a hair late to break up the pass on the TD to Graham too and that wasn't his man but he saw the play and tried to jump the play. He will be fine we won't be facing a offense like the Saints all year.
 
Premier said:
kareems mental clock needs to be triggered a second sooner... this picture speaks volumes...

[imgwidthsize=650]http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/getty/2012/09000d5d82b45aa1.jpg[/IMG]
Click to expand...

That was supposed to be a deep out but Brees threw the ball a tad early and too short (due to pressure); even the receiver didn't expect the ball to be there.

All i know is that when I watched a coaching video, they prefer the ball to be throw between 35 to 40 yards on such a route.

It's understandable that Jackson looked much higher up in the air if he expected the ball to be thrown deeper (and thefore with a higher trajectory).
But since the ball was thrown short and low, it went below his eyesight.
 
76Texan said:
That was supposed to be a deep out but Brees threw the ball a tad early and too short (due to pressure); even the receiver didn't expect the ball to be there.

All i know is that when I watched a coaching video, they prefer the ball to be throw between 35 to 40 yards on such a route.

It's understandable that Jackson looked much higher up in the air if he expected the ball to be thrown deeper (and thefore with a higher trajectory).
But since the ball was thrown short and low, it went below his eyesight.
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You do understand that different coaches have different ideas on how things should be done right? You can't watch a couple coaching videos or go to a clinic and deduce how any given team wants to do things.

You are making excuses for Kareem instead of just plainly saying he didn't do a good job there feeling when the ball was coming and locating it.

The part about him expecting one thing and the qb and wr doing something else is hogwash. That's a part if football. This isn't practice. That's not Vance Joseph simulating a qb, and that's not Brice McCain simulating a wr. A football game is not a controlled environment.
Sometimes stuff is going to happen. All the routes and throws aren't going to be exactly where you expect them to be. Part of being a good ball player is reacting in the heat of the moment. If all the balls were thrown where he expected them to be then that would make his job super easy wouldn't it?

Kareem has seemed to have gotten even better on routes in front of him, but he still looks to be lacking when he has to turn his hips, run and defend passes down the field. There is no two ways around that. He needs to continue to improve there.

That's not ragging on him or anything. He's showed tremendous growth, but this is an area if his game that he needs to keep working on. Period.
 
EllisUnit said:
All this cant keep up with the WR if he tries to locate the ball stuff is B.S. J.J does it fine, Aaron Glenn did it fine, Reeves, Aso, All top notch CBs can keep looking back trying to locate the ball and not lose his WR. But yet KJ cant ?!?!?!?

Hmmm do we need to hang a handy cap sign on the front of his helmet since he cant do what all the greats can do. :spin:
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Common sense would tell you that once you quit watching the receiver, you are at a disadvantage in regards to reacting to his movements. Common sense.

The greats in man coverage understand timing. They understand when to turn around and quit reacting to the receiver in order to locate the ball to make a play on it. They look for tells in regards to how long the play as lasted for, the receiver's eyes, his footwork, etc to determine when is best to turn and locate. That's the main difference between Kareem Jackson and the great man coverage corners in this league.

Some guys have it immediately, some guys take more time to develop it, some guys never do. I think Kareem has shown an ability to grow and learn in his short time here. I have confidence that he will get better at it. He will never be "one of the greats" in man coverage. Those are the types that understand it immediately. Take Revis or Aso for example.

Kareem is a great tackler and, as Rey said, is very good when the play is in front of him. He isn't going to let a receiver run a slant and break his tackle to go 25+ very often. He consistently makes that tackle and keeps it at 10 yards or less. That's very important in the NFL.

People that expect Kareem to be "one of the greats" just because he was a first rounder are unrealistic in their expectations. It's doubtful that he will ever be at that level.
 
Rey said:
You do understand that different coaches have different ideas on how things should be done right? You can't watch a couple coaching videos or go to a clinic and deduce how any given team wants to do things.

You are making excuses for Kareem instead of just plainly saying he didn't do a good job there feeling when the ball was coming and locating it.

The part about him expecting one thing and the qb and wr doing something else is hogwash. That's a part if football. This isn't practice. That's not Vance Joseph simulating a qb, and that's not Brice McCain simulating a wr. A football game is not a controlled environment.
Sometimes stuff is going to happen. All the routes and throws aren't going to be exactly where you expect them to be. Part of being a good ball player is reacting in the heat of the moment. If all the balls were thrown where he expected them to be then that would make his job super easy wouldn't it?

Kareem has seemed to have gotten even better on routes in front of him, but he still looks to be lacking when he has to turn his hips, run and defend passes down the field. There is no two ways around that. He needs to continue to improve there.

That's not ragging on him or anything. He's showed tremendous growth, but this is an area if his game that he needs to keep working on. Period.
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There were only two complaints on him in this game.

1. On the incompletion to Henderson, he did turn his head.
Now people complain that he turned his head late.

2. On the TD pass to Moore, he played the exact same technique the other Texans defenders were playing. Why don't people go gripe about all those players. And actually, they should go yell at Vance Joseph and Wade Phillips for teaching the guys that technique.
 
76Texan said:
That was supposed to be a deep out but Brees threw the ball a tad early and too short (due to pressure); even the receiver didn't expect the ball to be there.

All i know is that when I watched a coaching video, they prefer the ball to be throw between 35 to 40 yards on such a route.

It's understandable that Jackson looked much higher up in the air if he expected the ball to be thrown deeper (and thefore with a higher trajectory).
But since the ball was thrown short and low, it went below his eyesight.
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wow was supposed to be, i love how u can get in the mind of everyone on every play and know what supposed to happen. Its not the fact of where he was looking its the fact of when he was looking. Lets not pretend this is the first time KJ hasnt been able to locate the ball. What about the TD he gave up where were his eyes then ? Looking right in the #s of the WR, and with pass interference.

I agree KJ has done much better SO FAR but come on excuses as to why he didnt locate the ball.......come on man.
 
76Texan said:
There were only two complaints on him in this game.

1. On the incompletion to Henderson, he did turn his head.
Now people complain that he turned his head late.

2. On the TD pass to Moore, he played the exact same technique the other Texans defenders were playing. Why don't people go gripe about all those players. And actually, they should go yell at Vance Joseph and Wade Phillips for teaching the guys that technique.
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i imagine the technique also says to locate the ball, and not just stare at the WRs numbers while hand fighting. Wade has even said he needs to locate the ball better. So that has nothing to do with technique !
 
Rey said:
You do understand that different coaches have different ideas on how things should be done right? You can't watch a couple coaching videos or go to a clinic and deduce how any given team wants to do things.

You are making excuses for Kareem instead of just plainly saying he didn't do a good job there feeling when the ball was coming and locating it.

The part about him expecting one thing and the qb and wr doing something else is hogwash. That's a part if football. This isn't practice. That's not Vance Joseph simulating a qb, and that's not Brice McCain simulating a wr. A football game is not a controlled environment.
Sometimes stuff is going to happen. All the routes and throws aren't going to be exactly where you expect them to be. Part of being a good ball player is reacting in the heat of the moment. If all the balls were thrown where he expected them to be then that would make his job super easy wouldn't it?

Kareem has seemed to have gotten even better on routes in front of him, but he still looks to be lacking when he has to turn his hips, run and defend passes down the field. There is no two ways around that. He needs to continue to improve there.

That's not ragging on him or anything. He's showed tremendous growth, but this is an area if his game that he needs to keep working on. Period.
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I think we are in more agreement than you think. Kareem surely needs to improve in locating the ball on deep passes. As you said though, he has shown the ability to learn and grow. I think he has gotten better at it in his short time here. I think where we may disagree is in our confidence that he will be able to get better at it.

Brees is one of the best at that throw that he made to Lance Moore. It was a good test for him and he will learn from it. It is good that it happened to him in preseason so he can continue to work on it and use it as motivation.
 
Yeah, he looked pretty bad, but he's had two good games and one bad one. And Drew Brees can make any look bad. I'm not that worry because we aren't going against Drew Brees this season, and we couldn't generate any pass rush due to all the three steps drop backs. He definitely needs to get better at defending that tho, especially with Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Tom Brady on the schedule this season.
 
EllisUnit said:
i imagine the technique also says to locate the ball, and not just stare at the WRs numbers while hand fighting. Wade has even said he needs to locate the ball better. So that has nothing to do with technique !
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In all honesty, EU, I would love for you to study the game of football more closely.

I'm learning all the time.

It's hard for me to try to seperate things for you because you just lump all of them together so that you can gripe whenever you please.

Let's revisit the two-man route I talked about last off-season.
You and quite a few folks insisted that it was all Jackson's fault.

Go back and look at the INT he made against the Falcons.
That was the classic two-man route.
The on-side receiver was R White who was covered by JJo.
He ran the deep post route.
(In 2010, this CB would be KJ).

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/Jackson-picks-off-Ryan/9d46e7a4-3605-4271-9b60-9c5474118339

The off-side receiver was Julio Jones who KJ covered.
He ran the crossing route.

Now where did the ball was thrown to?
R. White
And who made the play on the ball?
KJ

Without KJ, JJo would have been burned toast.

It was one of the plays I tried to explain to you in depth, but you never believed me.

Now that it has been proven that I was correct, I still don't see the nay-sayers gave me credit for it.

So, keep on "hating", EU, my fellow Texans fan!
icon12.gif
 
76Texan said:
In all honesty, EU, I would love for you to study the game of football more closely.

I'm learning all the time.

It's hard for me to try to seperate things for you because you just lump all of them together so that you can gripe whenever you please.
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I couldn't agree with this more. EU seems to just want to "be right" about Kareem and continues to bash him because it fits his original stance. He loves to gripe about KJ and continues to make comments that lack common sense.

I don't agree with everything that you say though 76. For example, Kareem isn't counting the yards in which he is running down the sideline and calculating when the Saints "usually" make that throw. It's not quite that technical, or not in my opinion. More likely, Kareem was just late in turning his head to locate the ball. He shows improvement on that play from his first or even early second year though. Back then he would have just pushed into the receiver to get a PI call. He's improving, it is just taking longer than the impatient fan would like it to.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I couldn't agree with this more. EU seems to just want to "be right" about Kareem and continues to bash him because it fits his original stance. He loves to gripe about KJ and continues to make comments that lack common sense.

I don't agree with everything that you say though 76. For example, Kareem isn't counting the yards in which he is running down the sideline and calculating when the Saints "usually" make that throw. It's not quite that technical, or not in my opinion. More likely, Kareem was just late in turning his head to locate the ball. He shows improvement on that play from his first or even early second year though. Back then he would have just pushed into the receiver to get a PI call. He's improving, it is just taking longer than the impatient fan would like it to.
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But I do believe that (in the incompletion to Henderson) KJ turned his head around at the right time, TS.

From a Redskins playbook, I learned a coaching point that the DB should not turn his head until the receiver makes the break.

Here, Jackson needed to make sure that he pinned the receiver to the side line first (to better defend the back shoulder fade).
The top of the fade was about to be reached at this time.
It was only then that he was in truly good position to turn his head around, which he did.
 
76Texan said:
2. On the TD pass to Moore, he played the exact same technique the other Texans defenders were playing. Why don't people go gripe about all those players. And actually, they should go yell at Vance Joseph and Wade Phillips for teaching the guys that technique.
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Go back & watch that play from the snap. See where Kj is lined up, where the safeties are lined up. Watch what happens when the receiver gets closer to, then runs around Jackson.

That wasn't a taught, trailing technique. That was a guy who bit on something he shouldn't have, then tried to recover, & he was in good position, considering the bite on the play-fake.

If I were trying to defend Kj on that play, that would be my story, can't blame a guy for "attacking" a play in an aggressive defense. That was a great catch by Moore (who doesn't show up unless he's playing Kareem Jackson) & I don't have a lot to complain about Kj on that play.

The one that gets me the most, is when Jimmy Graham was thrown to in the end-zone.. I don't think Graham caught the ball, Kareem wasn't even covering him. Kj was covering a guy on the shallow end of the endzone just to the left of Graham.

Brees shouldn't have thrown the ball, because Graham had someone right behind him & Kj right in front of him. Jackson saw the ball release from Brees' hands, but instead of playing the ball, he turns & plays the man.

That should have been an INT, Kj should have attacked the ball, made a play. But he didn't.
 
Texn4life said:
Who didn't get picked on last night? It looked like to me Drew Brees was an equal opportunity abuser.
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We should be fine, just reminded me of last season. Atleast we had a 14-0 lead until all our guys decided to give the ball away in a gift basket to the saints.
 
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