You make the call

[mussop]

Warnign this is going to be a Mario Williams video breakdown thread. Its purpose is to specifically to debate what Mario did in each video good or bad.

This is not a forum for disscussing Mario's worth to the team or whether or not we should or could resign him. There are about ten threads on that subject that are currently going on so please go there if thats what you want to talk about.

Questions that should be answered in each video.

Who he was going against and the outcome?
Did his actions draw special attention?
Did the opposing team make special preperations to stop him? 1 ON 1 or more?
Did he beat his man?
how? Skillfull move, power move or did the play come to him?
Did he stunt?
Did he give a 100% effort on the play?

Feel free to add and answer any questions you think are relevant.

Maybe this will clear up some of the misconceptions about Mario and how he impacts the game. One way or another.

Again please try and keep conversaition on video breakdown. And remember the video doesn't have to be a Mario highlight! Any video that has Mario in it is game.

Ill start with a couple

VIDEO 1

VIDEO 2

 

[76Texan]

First off, a few plays do not make a player.

For example, I can tell you that Smith's sack on Brees was pure luck (the Saints were setting up a screen pass such that the LT only tried to draw Smith in and was getting ready to get out to block on the second level; basically Smith went in uncontested; as Brees fumbled the snap, all Smith had to do was to fall on top of him to get credit for the sack).
But that doesn't mean that Smith got lucky all the time.

The same goes for Mario.

However, I will still give my observation on those two vids:

Vid 1 shows me two things:

1. Big Ben was hearing footsteps and the first thing that came to his mind was to run away from Mario.
The fear factor.

2. A player who didn't stop chasing until the whistle blows.
That we call effort, my friend.

Vid 2 shows me a lot:

The Dolphins kept the RB to help with the block.
I don't know if you can follow it on the vid or not (but my screen shots show it very clearly); as Mario stunted to the inside, the RB also followed him.
The RT picked up Smith.
The RG, the C and the RB triple-teamed Mario.
Still, Mario was 5 yards beyond the LOS.
Guess what? He didn't give the QB much room to step up.
This allowed Barwin to get to the QB.
And when Henne tried to avoid him, Cushing was able to come in free because Mario had occupied 3 blockers.

 

[Scooter]

video 1 shows that mario still has horrible moves, but if the play extends, he's going to end it. edit: on second view, it shows what has been said for years, if we can get any inside rush mario is going to be the biggest beneficiary.

video 2 shows that teams plan specifically for mario. the running back never saw the stunt and didnt think about releasing, his job was to double mario wherever he went. edit: on second view mario ends up triple teamed while every one else is 1 on 1. the focus on mario also allows our cover ILB to rush cleanly because the RB doesnt release. easily argued that the lineman furthest from the play is the reason for the result.

 

[ObsiWan]

Video 1:
Looked to me like Mario beat the tackle with speed and some power. When Mario went wide, the OT couldn't keep up. Once Mario got outside leverage, he just pushed the OT aside and tracked down big Ben. I find it interesting that had Ben gotten away from Mario, no one else was there. Either Mario makes the play or Ben gets the pass off because on one had contain.

I don't know if anyone else noticed but Watt got double-teamed and ended up being pushed back beyond the LoS.

Video 2:
Mario and Ninja stunt with Mario ending up going inside. As 76T & Scooter said, Mario ends up occupying 3 blockers. Barwin beats his man to the outside and Cush sees that the RB is staying in to block. Once Mario occupies the RB, Cush has free run at the QB. So if Barwin hadn't gotten the sack Cush would have because the RB decided to help with Mario.

Mario isn't as quick as Derrick Thomas or Lawrence Taylor was and isn't as powerful as Reggie White was (no one is!) But he can be more effective in Wade's system than in any other he's played in while here.

 

[leebigeztx]

Video 1:
Looked to me like Mario beat the tackle with speed and some power. When Mario went wide, the OT couldn't keep up. Once Mario got outside leverage, he just pushed the OT aside and tracked down big Ben. I find it interesting that had Ben gotten away from Mario, no one else was there. Either Mario makes the play or Ben gets the pass off because on one had contain.

I don't know if anyone else noticed but Watt got double-teamed and ended up being pushed back beyond the LoS.

Video 2:
Mario and Ninja stunt with Mario ending up going inside. As 76T & Scooter said, Mario ends up occupying 3 blockers. Barwin beats his man to the outside and Cush sees that the RB is staying in to block. Once Mario occupies the RB, Cush has free run at the QB. So if Barwin hadn't gotten the sack Cush would have because the RB decided to help with Mario.

Mario isn't as quick as Derrick Thomas or Lawrence Taylor was and isn't as powerful as Reggie White was (no one is!) But he can be more effective in Wade's system than in any other he's played in while here.

It doesn't matter. There will be the same posters saying the same thing. They need to go watch the recently annoited richard dent to see if he played balls to the wall every play. He didn't and alot of lineman dont unless they're the lightweight variety. We heard the same thing about peppers, yet he's always regarded as a force. Every defensive coach will tell you they turn protections to mario. All the time,every passing play even with a stud lt. Now its great if watt and smith can get pressure, thats what make a great defense. Mario has played with less players and had less passing situations than suggs and he got paid like he should. I don't know why this is even up for debate.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

video 2 shows that teams plan specifically for mario.

edit: on second view mario ends up triple teamed

False! Teams don't care about Mario and that's why he's ALWAYS in 1-on-1 situations with a TE and still can't produce..

:kubepalm:

 

[mussop]

This was cbs1507's reply. He sent it to me in a pm for some reason. CBS1507 let me know if you want me to remove this and I will.

Video 1

He had 1 on 1 with the RT. It was not a stunt. The QB tried to escape the pocket but got chased down by Williams who blew by the tackle.

Video 2

This was a stunt. He was immediately triple teamed by the Center, RG and RB. Freed up everyone else for 1 on 1. Nice sack by Barwin (no RB to pick him up because he busy helping on Mario).

Here is my answer to the best of my ability. You should have just left it at "Its purpose is to specifically to debate what Mario did in each video good or bad." because your questions made no sense.


-------__________________________________________--------

Not sure exactly which question made no sense to you. Ther are several questions you must answer before you can come to any logical conclusion. Like I said I'm sure there are other important questions that I missed so don't hesitate to add any you think are relavent.

 

[dalemurphy]

It doesn't matter. There will be the same posters saying the same thing. They need to go watch the recently annoited richard dent to see if he played balls to the wall every play. He didn't and alot of lineman dont unless they're the lightweight variety. We heard the same thing about peppers, yet he's always regarded as a force. Every defensive coach will tell you they turn protections to mario. All the time,every passing play even with a stud lt. Now its great if watt and smith can get pressure, thats what make a great defense. Mario has played with less players and had less passing situations than suggs and he got paid like he should. I don't know why this is even up for debate.

Because I care about the success of the team, not the financial reward for individual stats. If the Texans are an elite defense without Mario on the field, why would I financially reward him for his ability to get sacks on a defense that wasn't elite? Get rid of him, add depth and talent elsewhere... let someone else reward him for his 2007 season when he was among the league leaders in sacks.

 

[BigBull17]

Both videos show that the defense, though it functioned without 90, is better with him. Both videos are beautiful in the sense that you can see almost at the snap that both plays have no true hope. And that was with Wade calling a more simple game plan due to growing pains. How could you not want to see them, as a whole, with a full offseason under their belts?

 

[eriadoc]

To me, both videos show that dalemurphy won't respond to video analysis directly, and that his assertion that no one ever gets triple teamed is false, like most of the rest of what he types on the subject.

 

[leebigeztx]

Because I care about the success of the team, not the financial reward for individual stats. If the Texans are an elite defense without Mario on the field, why would I financially reward him for his ability to get sacks on a defense that wasn't elite? Get rid of him, add depth and talent elsewhere... let someone else reward him for his 2007 season when he was among the league leaders in sacks.

To you it didnt matter who they played when they were elite did it? It didn't matter at all right? This game is won by player making plays, not depth. The packers lost cullen jenkins and went from #2 to 30th in a blink. He allowed them to do diffeent things with raji,matthews and the others players. The great organizations don't let a guy in his prime go for silly as depth. I don't know what world you live in bro, but you replace talent with talent. replacing mario with reed or barwin isn't doing that. Argue on if you may.

 

[dalemurphy]

To me, both videos show that dalemurphy won't respond to video analysis directly, and that his assertion that no one ever gets triple teamed is false, like most of the rest of what he types on the subject.

As I said before these videos were ever put up, no team ever designs a play with a triple team of any player in mind (possible exception of a NT on a QB sneak, etc...). It can happen two ways:

1. If the pass rusher beats a double team and then is picked up by a back.

2. If it is a designed stunt when the defense is attempting to draw blockers/confuse pass protection. (this was the case in the 2nd video)

 

[dalemurphy]

To you it didnt matter who they played when they were elite did it? It didn't matter at all right? This game is won by player making plays, not depth. The packers lost cullen jenkins and went from #2 to 30th in a blink. He allowed them to do diffeent things with raji,matthews and the others players. The great organizations don't let a guy in his prime go for silly as depth. I don't know what world you live in bro, but you replace talent with talent. replacing mario with reed or barwin isn't doing that. Argue on if you may.

The Texans were the best defense in the league without Mario. How can you avoid that point?

Cullen Jenkins played last year when the Packers played so well. Without him, they struggled.

I'm not saying every player on the defense is easily replaceable. I'm say Mario is, and the last 14 games are pretty clear evidence that is the case.

 

[The Cush]

And just like that, this thread that was meant for video breakdown turns into another over aggressive dalemurphy-Mario thread. That's about 10 and counting with all basically the same material in each one. Dale, WE GET HOW YOU FEEL! Even if we haven't gotten it by now or haven't seen how you feel (which is impossible because you're more in your face about your feelings on the Mario than Elton John is about his homosexuality) you already have multiple Mario "debates" going on in other threads to pump up your propaganda. You could have at least broken down the video clips before starting another one

Video 1: Mario speed rushes around the tackle and around the original pocket. Mario doesn't give up as Ben moves to his left and is able to chase him down.

Video 2: Mario and Antonio do a stunt. Designed or not, Mario engages 3 blockers. Cushing, who looks to have the assignment of covering short passes up the middle, sees the alley open up and shoots straight in towards the QB but is a split second too late as Barwin beats Long for the sack.

 

[Gymrat2005]

I lurk this message board 95% of the time but this dale murphy guy needs to stop derailing every thread.

 

[thunderkyss]

Video 1:
Looked to me like Mario beat the tackle with speed and some power. When Mario went wide, the OT couldn't keep up. Once Mario got outside leverage, he just pushed the OT aside and tracked down big Ben. I find it interesting that had Ben gotten away from Mario, no one else was there. Either Mario makes the play or Ben gets the pass off because on one had contain.

I agree. I guess, Mario is just so long, it doesn't look like he has "burst" or "speed" but he was obviously too fast for that right tackle. He got around him & there was nothing the Tackle can do.

Kinda like Foster. He doesn't look that fast, but no one can catch him.

Another thing about this vid.... you rarely ever (if ever) see one guy take Rothlisberger down. That's why he's earned the name Big Ben. Even a blindsided hit like that from the backside, Ben normally shrugs that off.

Mario took him down singlehandedly twice in that game.

That's size, power, & speed.... rare combination. He's a freak.

Video 2:
Mario and Ninja stunt with Mario ending up going inside. As 76T & Scooter said, Mario ends up occupying 3 blockers. Barwin beats his man to the outside and Cush sees that the RB is staying in to block. Once Mario occupies the RB, Cush has free run at the QB. So if Barwin hadn't gotten the sack Cush would have because the RB decided to help with Mario.

I don't like the way Antonio Smith does his job there. To me, he should have stayed engaged with the guard. Since he came off the guard that allowed the guard to pick-up Mario. Had Antonio stayed on the guard, the RT would have naturally been blocked leaving Mario one on one with the RB (who probably would have taken out his knees).

Barwin does a great job up top. Something you don't ever see Mario do. He attacks the tackle to the outside, then fakes back in. As the Tackle tries to adjust, Barwin blows up outside & the tackle trips on his own feet. That's CMIII kind of stuff right there.

What does CMIII look like this year? No Jenkins to "help out" in the middle. Pedestrian. We've still got Jj Watt, but think about Watt, Barwin, & Mario..... why wouldn't you want that?

Mario isn't as quick as Derrick Thomas or Lawrence Taylor was and isn't as powerful as Reggie White was (no one is!) But he can be more effective in Wade's system than in any other he's played in while here.

I don't think it was a matter of system. It's the help around him. This year, we finally got him the help that he needs & he gets hurt. No doubt, Mario makes all those guys on the front 7 better. But they make him better as well.

2010, we were going to have a salty Connor Barwin rushing opposite Mario on passing downs. He gets hurt the first game of the season. No one wanted to play the injury card for Frank Bush, but he had as many issues in 2010 as Wade had in 2011. Bush didn't have the depth that Wade had to address those issues. I'm glad Bush is gone, there were other issues with Frank that goes beyond the personnel packages he had...... But Jj Watt in place of Amobi Okoye.... big difference.

 

[otisbean]

I agree. I guess, Mario is just so long, it doesn't look like he has "burst" or "speed" but he was obviously too fast for that right tackle. He got around him & there was nothing the Tackle can do.

Kinda like Foster. He doesn't look that fast, but no one can catch him.

Another thing about this vid.... you rarely ever (if ever) see one guy take Rothlisberger down. That's why he's earned the name Big Ben. Even a blindsided hit like that from the backside, Ben normally shrugs that off.

Mario took him down singlehandedly twice in that game.

That's size, power, & speed.... rare combination. He's a freak

you make a great point, MW may not look fast but he ran a 1.6 10yd split at the combine in 06. That's ridiculous for a 6'7" almost 300lb man. By comparison, Ware ran a 1.62. MW is indeed a freak

 

[mussop]

VIDEO 1
Questions that should be answered in each video.


Who he was going against and the outcome?
Marcus Gilcrest Rookie RT. Mario gets rode for A 11 yard loop only to have Big Ben take off take off because the interior of the posket collapses from good pressure from A Smith. Unfortunatley for Ben he rolls right into Marios path. The outcome is a sack because of the inside pressure applied by A Smith. So I guess you could say Mario benefited from from Smith on this play.

Did his actions draw special attention?
I guess this question and the next one is kinda redundant.

Did the opposing team make special preperations to stop him? 1 ON 1 or more?

I would have to say no since Pittsburg left a rookie LT to go one on one with Mario.

Did he beat his man?
Eventually but I wouldn't classify that as a win considering how far outside he got rode.

If yes how? Skillfull move, power move or did the play come to him?
Since I answered Eventually, I'm going to say the play came to him.

Did he stunt?
no

Did he give a 100% effort on the play?

Absolutely!



I'll do video 2 later.

 

[b0ng]

This thread tells me that the NFL needs to release the all 11 footage from every game.

 

[dream_team]

Video 1

I see three factors contributed to this sack:

1) The stunt by Smith & Barwin was somewhat effective. Big Ben sees Barwin running free to him for a quick second and flushes him out of the pocket. (Barwin actually gets cut later in the play)

2) Poor decisions by Big Ben. First, he prematurely escapes the pocket. Second, he didn't hit his check down when had the chance. Cushing was pursuing the check down quite well, but I think they at least could have gotten some positive yardage.

3) Good effort on Mario. Mario was actually initially blocked out of the play, but his speed and non-stop effort got him that sack.

Video 2

I think Barwin gets majority credit for this sack. Plain & simple, he beat Jake Long and got the sack. It didn't seem like that great of a move, but it worked.

Since this is a Mario thread, I'll comment on him in this play. He got tripled team, there's no doubt about it. They were in max protect, and the RB's job was obviously to help contain Mario. When Mario ran the inside stunt, he got picked up by the guard & center, with the RB right there to help out. Since the RB was so concerned with Mario, it opened up a lane for Cushing to blitz untouched.

Barwin got the sack, and he deserves all the credit for it. But if Long was able to contain him, Cushing would have gotten the sack anyways... and Mario should have gotten majority credit for Cushing's sack.

 

[dalemurphy]

you make a great point, MW may not look fast but he ran a 1.6 10yd split at the combine in 06. That's ridiculous for a 6'7" almost 300lb man. By comparison, Ware ran a 1.62. MW is indeed a freak

Mario and Watt are near identical athletes. Mario is pretty fast but, because of his size and length, his quickness isn't a difference-maker (on the edge). Also, he plays a little high and stiff (for an edge guy)... he can't drop that lead shoulder on a speed rush and force the tackle to lean to get to him. Physically, he is a perfect fit for a strong side DE in a 4-3. As seen in video 1, he is a good finisher. He always has been.

 

[otisbean]

Mario and Watt are near identical athletes. Mario is pretty fast but, because of his size and length, his quickness isn't a difference-maker (on the edge). Also, he plays a little high and stiff (for an edge guy)... he can't drop that lead shoulder on a speed rush and force the tackle to lean to get to him. Physically, he is a perfect fit for a strong side DE in a 4-3. As seen in video 1, he is a good finisher. He always has been.

Watt is a freak too, but I do think MW is a tad more explosive than Watt and their numbers reflect this:

MW 1.6 10yd 40"VJ

Watt 1.64 10yd 37"VJ

You have to remember Mario is 6'7", it's tough not to play high at his height. Tall guys never look quick on film or TV. They tend to cover so much ground per step it's deceiving. I've been a strength coach for 16 yrs, I don't think the average Joe has a true idea of just how freaky both MW and Watt are as athletes.

 

[76Texan]

Mario and Watt are near identical athletes. Mario is pretty fast but, because of his size and length, his quickness isn't a difference-maker (on the edge). Also, he plays a little high and stiff (for an edge guy)... he can't drop that lead shoulder on a speed rush and force the tackle to lean to get to him. Physically, he is a perfect fit for a strong side DE in a 4-3. As seen in video 1, he is a good finisher. He always has been.

Not true, as seen in the Saints game.
When I get to that game, I will bring up the play.
I've seen him do that other times, it's just that I've been on the Saints game the last couple of days.
Yeah, dip his shoulder to get under the OT to come around close to the QB.
And after he's been chipped, too!
Only, Smith got there just a hair ahead to put the hit on Brees.

No, he doesn't do that often (just like the spin move) but he does have both in his repertoire.

 

[b0ng]

Mario and Watt are near identical athletes. Mario is pretty fast but, because of his size and length, his quickness isn't a difference-maker (on the edge). Also, he plays a little high and stiff (for an edge guy)... he can't drop that lead shoulder on a speed rush and force the tackle to lean to get to him. Physically, he is a perfect fit for a strong side DE in a 4-3. As seen in video 1, he is a good finisher. He always has been.

Really now. Near identical huh? So I guess JJ Watt is a speedy athletic freak who has the quicks and size to make plays eh? Here I was thinking he was a big pretty athletic guy but mostly had tenacity and a high motor to make his plays as well as brutish strength.

 

[Gotta Know]

There is no great divide between Mario's and Watt's numbers.

Watt being "pretty athletic" and getting by mostly on "tenacity" and "high motor" is just wrong.

40 yrd: M 4.70 W 4.81
3 cone: M 7.21 W 6.88
20 yd shuttle: M 4.37 W 4.21
Bench: M 35 W 34
Vertical Jump: M 40 W 37
Broad Jump: M 120.0 W 120.0
Mario was .04 seconds faster in 10 yrd split

 

[mussop]

First off, a few plays do not make a player.

For example, I can tell you that Smith's sack on Brees was pure luck (the Saints were setting up a screen pass such that the LT only tried to draw Smith in and was getting ready to get out to block on the second level; basically Smith went in uncontested; as Brees fumbled the snap, all Smith had to do was to fall on top of him to get credit for the sack).
But that doesn't mean that Smith got lucky all the time.

The same goes for Mario.

However, I will still give my observation on those two vids:

Vid 1 shows me two things:

1. Big Ben was hearing footsteps and the first thing that came to his mind was to run away from Mario.
The fear factor.

2. A player who didn't stop chasing until the whistle blows.
That we call effort, my friend.

Vid 2 shows me a lot:

The Dolphins kept the RB to help with the block.
I don't know if you can follow it on the vid or not (but my screen shots show it very clearly); as Mario stunted to the inside, the RB also followed him.
The RT picked up Smith.
The RG, the C and the RB triple-teamed Mario.
Still, Mario was 5 yards beyond the LOS.
Guess what? He didn't give the QB much room to step up.
This allowed Barwin to get to the QB.
And when Henne tried to avoid him, Cushing was able to come in free because Mario had occupied 3 blockers.

First off add more videos if you want that is what the thread is about. If Mario is such a great pass rusher they should't be hard to find. Of course after reading your breakdown any video that has Mario in in would be a highlight in your mind.


In video 1 your breakdown shows you have no objectivity when it comes to Mario. Fear factor? Really? Big Ben didn't even see Mario. It was Smith that flushed him out of the pocket and into Mario's path.

Not true, as seen in the Saints game.
When I get to that game, I will bring up the play.
I've seen him do that other times, it's just that I've been on the Saints game the last couple of days.
Yeah, dip his shoulder to get under the OT to come around close to the QB.
And after he's been chipped, too!
Only, Smith got there just a hair ahead to put the hit on Brees.

No, he doesn't do that often (just like the spin move) but he does have both in his repertoire.

Instead of telling us about it how about bringing the videos here and prove it. All you guys that act like Mario is LT, here is your chance to prove it. If Mario is this great outside pass rusher with all these moves there should be plenty of video to back that clame up, right?

 

[thunderkyss]

Certainly (retaining Williams) is going to be a focus of ours. We want to keep him and we're going to do everything we can to do that.

 

[mussop]

​

What is your point Thunder? And I guess that puts to rest the theory that Mario is the TOP priority.

"Certainly (retaining Williams) is going to be a focus of ours.".

I really do want Mario back as long as the price is right and he returns to DE. He can always spell the outside guys in certain situations.

 

[thunderkyss]

What is your point Thunder? And I guess that puts to rest the theory that Mario is the TOP priority.

"Certainly (retaining Williams) is going to be a focus of ours.".

I really do want Mario back as long as the price is right and he returns to DE. He can always spell the outside guys in certain situations.

My point, is that the Texans are going to do their best to bring Mario.

 

[mussop]

My point, is that the Texans are going to do their best to bring Mario.

Was that ever in doubt?

 

[76Texan]

In video 1 your breakdown shows you have no objectivity when it comes to Mario. Fear factor? Really? Big Ben didn't even see Mario. It was Smith that flushed him out of the pocket and into Mario's path.

You specifically asked about Mario in these vids and I told you what my observations are about what he did to contribute to these plays.

It's always the scheme that ties everything together if we're talking about other players as well (and sometimes the secondary plays a part in it.)

It was Barwin who actually didn't give the QB room to step up.
Smith was also doing his job, it seems. I'm not exactly sure what he was asked to do so I'm going to give Smith a pass here.
But if he was to contain and not letting Big Ben out of the pocket on this stunt then he didn't do his job very well.

Without Mario, Big Ben would have been able to make a run for it (coverage was good) or at worst to throw the ball away.

Ask yourself why Big Ben never thought of going right.

Now I may have overstate the Fear Factor (but it only serves to counter-balance the effect of the other side; ie. you and DM for example

).

Why is it that HCs (including ex-HCs), game analysts, and players from other teams keep talking about how "you have to account for Mario on every play".
The QB has to know what side Mario is on; if he doesn't then he isn't very smart.

They don't talk about paying extra attention to other players on the Texans (yet).
It's always Mario.
And if you want to discount that FACT then it is your choice, I can't stop you.

All I'm saying is that QBs are not very eager to try to escape toward Mario's side unless they have a clear vision or they are desperate (or somewhat desperate.)

 

[76Texan]

First off add more videos if you want that is what the thread is about. If Mario is such a great pass rusher they should't be hard to find. Of course after reading your breakdown any video that has Mario in in would be a highlight in your mind.


Instead of telling us about it how about bringing the videos here and prove it. All you guys that act like Mario is LT, here is your chance to prove it. If Mario is this great outside pass rusher with all these moves there should be plenty of video to back that clame up, right?

I never claim that Mario is LT or anybody for that matter.
All I know is that he's a very effective player on the Texans that opponents have to respect and do respect.

I don't know how to do video, but I have plenty of screen shots.
I don't have much time to upload them onto photobucket however.

You can check the thread on film study on Mario vs. the Colts and if you want to contest a certain play, I will try my best to find the time to upload the screenshots to photobucket.

I'm still working on the next game against the Dolphins (but I kinda skip ahead to the Saints game already). It takes a lot of time even though I already watch each game several times.

As far as Mario being a great lineman/LB, all you need to know is that somebody is going to sign him to very good money to play.
It is as simple as that.
Money talks.