You make the call

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by mussop, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. mussop

    mussop Hall of Fame

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    Warnign this is going to be a Mario Williams video breakdown thread. Its purpose is to specifically to debate what Mario did in each video good or bad.

    This is not a forum for disscussing Mario's worth to the team or whether or not we should or could resign him. There are about ten threads on that subject that are currently going on so please go there if thats what you want to talk about.

    Questions that should be answered in each video.

    Who he was going against and the outcome?
    Did his actions draw special attention?
    Did the opposing team make special preperations to stop him? 1 ON 1 or more?
    Did he beat his man?
    how? Skillfull move, power move or did the play come to him?
    Did he stunt?
    Did he give a 100% effort on the play?

    Feel free to add and answer any questions you think are relevant.

    Maybe this will clear up some of the misconceptions about Mario and how he impacts the game. One way or another.

    Again please try and keep conversaition on video breakdown. And remember the video doesn't have to be a Mario highlight! Any video that has Mario in it is game.

    Ill start with a couple

    VIDEO 1

    VIDEO 2
     
  2. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

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    First off, a few plays do not make a player.

    For example, I can tell you that Smith's sack on Brees was pure luck (the Saints were setting up a screen pass such that the LT only tried to draw Smith in and was getting ready to get out to block on the second level; basically Smith went in uncontested; as Brees fumbled the snap, all Smith had to do was to fall on top of him to get credit for the sack).
    But that doesn't mean that Smith got lucky all the time.

    The same goes for Mario.

    However, I will still give my observation on those two vids:

    Vid 1 shows me two things:

    1. Big Ben was hearing footsteps and the first thing that came to his mind was to run away from Mario.
    The fear factor.

    2. A player who didn't stop chasing until the whistle blows.
    That we call effort, my friend.

    Vid 2 shows me a lot:

    The Dolphins kept the RB to help with the block.
    I don't know if you can follow it on the vid or not (but my screen shots show it very clearly); as Mario stunted to the inside, the RB also followed him.
    The RT picked up Smith.
    The RG, the C and the RB triple-teamed Mario.
    Still, Mario was 5 yards beyond the LOS.
    Guess what? He didn't give the QB much room to step up.
    This allowed Barwin to get to the QB.
    And when Henne tried to avoid him, Cushing was able to come in free because Mario had occupied 3 blockers.
     
  3. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    video 1 shows that mario still has horrible moves, but if the play extends, he's going to end it. edit: on second view, it shows what has been said for years, if we can get any inside rush mario is going to be the biggest beneficiary.

    video 2 shows that teams plan specifically for mario. the running back never saw the stunt and didnt think about releasing, his job was to double mario wherever he went. edit: on second view mario ends up triple teamed while every one else is 1 on 1. the focus on mario also allows our cover ILB to rush cleanly because the RB doesnt release. easily argued that the lineman furthest from the play is the reason for the result.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  4. ObsiWan

    ObsiWan Site Contributor

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    Video 1:
    Looked to me like Mario beat the tackle with speed and some power. When Mario went wide, the OT couldn't keep up. Once Mario got outside leverage, he just pushed the OT aside and tracked down big Ben. I find it interesting that had Ben gotten away from Mario, no one else was there. Either Mario makes the play or Ben gets the pass off because on one had contain.

    I don't know if anyone else noticed but Watt got double-teamed and ended up being pushed back beyond the LoS.

    Video 2:
    Mario and Ninja stunt with Mario ending up going inside. As 76T & Scooter said, Mario ends up occupying 3 blockers. Barwin beats his man to the outside and Cush sees that the RB is staying in to block. Once Mario occupies the RB, Cush has free run at the QB. So if Barwin hadn't gotten the sack Cush would have because the RB decided to help with Mario.

    Mario isn't as quick as Derrick Thomas or Lawrence Taylor was and isn't as powerful as Reggie White was (no one is!) But he can be more effective in Wade's system than in any other he's played in while here.
     
  5. leebigeztx

    leebigeztx Hall of Fame

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    It doesn't matter. There will be the same posters saying the same thing. They need to go watch the recently annoited richard dent to see if he played balls to the wall every play. He didn't and alot of lineman dont unless they're the lightweight variety. We heard the same thing about peppers, yet he's always regarded as a force. Every defensive coach will tell you they turn protections to mario. All the time,every passing play even with a stud lt. Now its great if watt and smith can get pressure, thats what make a great defense. Mario has played with less players and had less passing situations than suggs and he got paid like he should. I don't know why this is even up for debate.
     
  6. Ole Miss Texan

    Ole Miss Texan Hall of Fame

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    False! Teams don't care about Mario and that's why he's ALWAYS in 1-on-1 situations with a TE and still can't produce.. :kitten:

    :kubepalm:
     
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  7. mussop

    mussop Hall of Fame

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    This was cbs1507's reply. He sent it to me in a pm for some reason. CBS1507 let me know if you want me to remove this and I will.

    Video 1

    He had 1 on 1 with the RT. It was not a stunt. The QB tried to escape the pocket but got chased down by Williams who blew by the tackle.

    Video 2

    This was a stunt. He was immediately triple teamed by the Center, RG and RB. Freed up everyone else for 1 on 1. Nice sack by Barwin (no RB to pick him up because he busy helping on Mario).

    Here is my answer to the best of my ability. You should have just left it at "Its purpose is to specifically to debate what Mario did in each video good or bad." because your questions made no sense.


    -------__________________________________________--------

    Not sure exactly which question made no sense to you. Ther are several questions you must answer before you can come to any logical conclusion. Like I said I'm sure there are other important questions that I missed so don't hesitate to add any you think are relavent.
     
  8. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    Because I care about the success of the team, not the financial reward for individual stats. If the Texans are an elite defense without Mario on the field, why would I financially reward him for his ability to get sacks on a defense that wasn't elite? Get rid of him, add depth and talent elsewhere... let someone else reward him for his 2007 season when he was among the league leaders in sacks.
     


  9. BigBull17

    BigBull17 Hall of Fame

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    Both videos show that the defense, though it functioned without 90, is better with him. Both videos are beautiful in the sense that you can see almost at the snap that both plays have no true hope. And that was with Wade calling a more simple game plan due to growing pains. How could you not want to see them, as a whole, with a full offseason under their belts?
     
  10. eriadoc

    eriadoc Texan-American

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    To me, both videos show that dalemurphy won't respond to video analysis directly, and that his assertion that no one ever gets triple teamed is false, like most of the rest of what he types on the subject.
     
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  11. leebigeztx

    leebigeztx Hall of Fame

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    To you it didnt matter who they played when they were elite did it? It didn't matter at all right? This game is won by player making plays, not depth. The packers lost cullen jenkins and went from #2 to 30th in a blink. He allowed them to do diffeent things with raji,matthews and the others players. The great organizations don't let a guy in his prime go for silly as depth. I don't know what world you live in bro, but you replace talent with talent. replacing mario with reed or barwin isn't doing that. Argue on if you may.
     
  12. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    As I said before these videos were ever put up, no team ever designs a play with a triple team of any player in mind (possible exception of a NT on a QB sneak, etc...). It can happen two ways:

    1. If the pass rusher beats a double team and then is picked up by a back.

    2. If it is a designed stunt when the defense is attempting to draw blockers/confuse pass protection. (this was the case in the 2nd video)
     
  13. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    The Texans were the best defense in the league without Mario. How can you avoid that point?

    Cullen Jenkins played last year when the Packers played so well. Without him, they struggled.

    I'm not saying every player on the defense is easily replaceable. I'm say Mario is, and the last 14 games are pretty clear evidence that is the case.
     
  14. The Cush

    The Cush All Pro

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    And just like that, this thread that was meant for video breakdown turns into another over aggressive dalemurphy-Mario thread. That's about 10 and counting with all basically the same material in each one. Dale, WE GET HOW YOU FEEL! Even if we haven't gotten it by now or haven't seen how you feel (which is impossible because you're more in your face about your feelings on the Mario than Elton John is about his homosexuality) you already have multiple Mario "debates" going on in other threads to pump up your propaganda. You could have at least broken down the video clips before starting another one

    Video 1: Mario speed rushes around the tackle and around the original pocket. Mario doesn't give up as Ben moves to his left and is able to chase him down.

    Video 2: Mario and Antonio do a stunt. Designed or not, Mario engages 3 blockers. Cushing, who looks to have the assignment of covering short passes up the middle, sees the alley open up and shoots straight in towards the QB but is a split second too late as Barwin beats Long for the sack.
     
  15. Gymrat2005

    Gymrat2005 Rookie

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    I lurk this message board 95% of the time but this dale murphy guy needs to stop derailing every thread.
     
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  16. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    I agree. I guess, Mario is just so long, it doesn't look like he has "burst" or "speed" but he was obviously too fast for that right tackle. He got around him & there was nothing the Tackle can do.

    Kinda like Foster. He doesn't look that fast, but no one can catch him.

    Another thing about this vid.... you rarely ever (if ever) see one guy take Rothlisberger down. That's why he's earned the name Big Ben. Even a blindsided hit like that from the backside, Ben normally shrugs that off.

    Mario took him down singlehandedly twice in that game.

    That's size, power, & speed.... rare combination. He's a freak.

    I don't like the way Antonio Smith does his job there. To me, he should have stayed engaged with the guard. Since he came off the guard that allowed the guard to pick-up Mario. Had Antonio stayed on the guard, the RT would have naturally been blocked leaving Mario one on one with the RB (who probably would have taken out his knees).

    Barwin does a great job up top. Something you don't ever see Mario do. He attacks the tackle to the outside, then fakes back in. As the Tackle tries to adjust, Barwin blows up outside & the tackle trips on his own feet. That's CMIII kind of stuff right there.

    What does CMIII look like this year? No Jenkins to "help out" in the middle. Pedestrian. We've still got Jj Watt, but think about Watt, Barwin, & Mario..... why wouldn't you want that?

    I don't think it was a matter of system. It's the help around him. This year, we finally got him the help that he needs & he gets hurt. No doubt, Mario makes all those guys on the front 7 better. But they make him better as well.

    2010, we were going to have a salty Connor Barwin rushing opposite Mario on passing downs. He gets hurt the first game of the season. No one wanted to play the injury card for Frank Bush, but he had as many issues in 2010 as Wade had in 2011. Bush didn't have the depth that Wade had to address those issues. I'm glad Bush is gone, there were other issues with Frank that goes beyond the personnel packages he had...... But Jj Watt in place of Amobi Okoye.... big difference.
     
  17. otisbean

    otisbean All Pro

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    you make a great point, MW may not look fast but he ran a 1.6 10yd split at the combine in 06. That's ridiculous for a 6'7" almost 300lb man. By comparison, Ware ran a 1.62. MW is indeed a freak
     
  18. mussop

    mussop Hall of Fame

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    VIDEO 1
    Questions that should be answered in each video.


    Who he was going against and the outcome?
    Marcus Gilcrest Rookie RT. Mario gets rode for A 11 yard loop only to have Big Ben take off take off because the interior of the posket collapses from good pressure from A Smith. Unfortunatley for Ben he rolls right into Marios path. The outcome is a sack because of the inside pressure applied by A Smith. So I guess you could say Mario benefited from from Smith on this play.

    Did his actions draw special attention?
    I guess this question and the next one is kinda redundant.

    Did the opposing team make special preperations to stop him? 1 ON 1 or more?

    I would have to say no since Pittsburg left a rookie LT to go one on one with Mario.

    Did he beat his man?
    Eventually but I wouldn't classify that as a win considering how far outside he got rode.

    If yes how? Skillfull move, power move or did the play come to him?
    Since I answered Eventually, I'm going to say the play came to him.

    Did he stunt?
    no

    Did he give a 100% effort on the play?

    Absolutely!



    I'll do video 2 later.
     
  19. b0ng

    b0ng Ooops

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    This thread tells me that the NFL needs to release the all 11 footage from every game.
     
  20. dream_team

    dream_team Hall of Fame

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    Video 1

    I see three factors contributed to this sack:

    1) The stunt by Smith & Barwin was somewhat effective. Big Ben sees Barwin running free to him for a quick second and flushes him out of the pocket. (Barwin actually gets cut later in the play)

    2) Poor decisions by Big Ben. First, he prematurely escapes the pocket. Second, he didn't hit his check down when had the chance. Cushing was pursuing the check down quite well, but I think they at least could have gotten some positive yardage.

    3) Good effort on Mario. Mario was actually initially blocked out of the play, but his speed and non-stop effort got him that sack.

    Video 2

    I think Barwin gets majority credit for this sack. Plain & simple, he beat Jake Long and got the sack. It didn't seem like that great of a move, but it worked.

    Since this is a Mario thread, I'll comment on him in this play. He got tripled team, there's no doubt about it. They were in max protect, and the RB's job was obviously to help contain Mario. When Mario ran the inside stunt, he got picked up by the guard & center, with the RB right there to help out. Since the RB was so concerned with Mario, it opened up a lane for Cushing to blitz untouched.

    Barwin got the sack, and he deserves all the credit for it. But if Long was able to contain him, Cushing would have gotten the sack anyways... and Mario should have gotten majority credit for Cushing's sack.
     

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