Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by badboy, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    ZBS is what he does but have you noticed the Oline shifting from lighter, faster guys to athletic road graders?

    LT Duane Brown 6'4" 320
    LG Wade Smith 6'4" 307
    C Chris Myers 6'4" 290 but Ben Jones 6'3" 303
    RG Antonio Caldwell 6' 3" 311 and Brandon Brooks 6'5" 340
    RT Derek Newton 6' 5" 318

    Of course there is Harris at 300 but was basically all they could get when Butler 317 was injured. Usually, OGs are able to hide slow fat boys but ours are a bit undersized; that being the ZBS philosophy.

    With an older Schaub going forward with his new contract, would a power offense be safer for Matt? There has been talk that NFL will be cracking down on crack back blocks which are Texans bread and butter in this ZBS. Our RBs rotation seems able to switch as all 3 have shown they can run through middle.

    *Note that while I recognize how successful the ZBS has been, I am more in line with a power offensive scheme and think our TEs fit well in that scheme.

    Comments?
     
  2. TexansFanatic

    TexansFanatic Extremist

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    Good Lord, I can't believe how big these ZBS guys are. Amazing.
     
  3. Wolf6151

    Wolf6151 Hall of Fame

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    While I like the power blocking scheme more so than a pure ZBS, I don't like the big unathletic road grader type O-linemen that traditionally play in that system. I guess I want it all in an O-lineman. I like a guy who's large for the respective position, strong as an ox, athletic/agile on his feet, and smart. I think we've gotten away from the pure ZBS that we ran a few years ago with Kubiak's mentor Gibbs and begninning last year we began to blend the 2 blocking schemes. I agree our O-linemen are getting larger because a couple years ago we were getting killed. Gibbs just couldn't realize that the rest of the NFL had figured out the antiquated pure ZBS and that a larger O-lineman was necessary to deal with today's huge athletic D-linemen.


    Between this thread and the Weaknesses thread your obviously working on a new mock with emphasis on the O-line. Can't wait to see it, I've been working on a new one as well.
     
  4. TheMatrix31

    TheMatrix31 Hall of Fame

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    Let's just stick to what works, yeah?
     
  5. Allstar

    Allstar Bona fide

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    Why would we do that? Why?
     
  6. SteveSlaton20

    SteveSlaton20 All Pro

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    this. kubiak's been coaching this offense for what, 17 years? not going to happen.
     
  7. infantrycak

    infantrycak Lead Moderator Staff Member

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    Well a question and a comment.

    Where the heck is this purported weight change other than a rookie non-starter? Brown and Myers are obviously the same they were. Caldwell is 1 lb heavier than Briesiel. Newton is the same weight as Winston. So for the past three season we have had a net weight gain of 1 lb.

    The comment is ain't going to happen unless Kubiak leaves. His entire offense is built around zone blocking.
     
  8. SAMURAITEXAN

    SAMURAITEXAN Subscribed Contributor

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    Didn't Sherman tried more of power O while he was OC for the Texans?

    Go Texans!!!
     
  9. kiwitexansfan

    kiwitexansfan Site Contributor

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    I believe he may have added some power concepts.

    Kubiak is a system coach, he is not going to change his system, he'll change personnel first.
     
  10. SAMURAITEXAN

    SAMURAITEXAN Subscribed Contributor

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    Yep, I agree with you Kiwi. Especially, Dennison is our OC and all. I guess younger guys are getting bigger nowadays without losing any quickness.

    Go Texans!!!
     
  11. Playoffs

    Playoffs Subscribed Contributor

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    If it ain't broke...
     
  12. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    The reason for the ZBS, is to fool the defense. First step from snap is the same, whether it is a pass or a run. Going to a power O will change that. I don't think we'll change for that reason.

    However, I think the athletes are changing more than Kubiak's system. Bigger, faster, stronger. If you look at our hawgs, they're as athletic as much smaller guys have been in the past. Duane Brown is pretty freaky for the way he's able to move.

    New Orleans, I noticed when we played them last preseason. Those guys are huge, but move very, very well.

    Times are changing, not our scheme.
     
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  13. TexanSam

    TexanSam Hall of Fame

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    Unless teams figure out a way to stop out the ZBS and our rushing attack there is no need to change.
     
  14. welsh texan

    welsh texan Lest we forget

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    Interesting stuff and I can see how that change might allow us to add more and more power o wrinkles in to the scheme to change it up, but it took forever to get this zbs working and I think they likely look to get the strongest (often biggest) guys who fit the athletic requirements first.

    Interesting comments about Gibbs, I've always taken the view that he came in to put the building blocks in place on a long term project, we had a line made up of low experience guys, has-beens and other people's rubbish, and he set the foundations towards what we have now.

    Can he really be viewed as simply a failure in Houston or did his time help develop us towards what we have now?
     
  15. Insideop

    Insideop Hall of Fame

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    I guess he did put in some of the building blocks (Brown and Myers) and I don't look at his time here as a failure. Just as a step moving us closer to what we are now. It may have taken longer than what we the fans wanted it to but I think now we are built for long term success. It takes time getting all the right pieces (both players and coaches) in place.
     
  16. CloakNNNdagger

    CloakNNNdagger Site Contributor

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    Gibbs was far from a failure for the Texans. His personell was of limited experience and/or talent and "fit." There was transition from and resistance and conflict with the power run offense principles. The ZBS is not an easy system to install and certainly takes very much more difficult-to-find type of players to run it in the first place........and an even greater challenge time-wise to choreograph it so that it can run effectively and consistently. The ZBS takes extreme blood, sweat and tears......and painful commitment. That is what Gibbs left as his legacy to the team you see today.

    This ARTICLE will be of historic interest to any Texans fan.
     
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  17. Texanmike02

    Texanmike02 Site Contributor

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    It could be that bigger guys are just becoming more agile. It isn't like you would decline a guy because he is big, as long as he can move, the bigger the better.

    Mike
     
  18. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    this, along with the fact that players just continue to get bigger and faster. it wasnt all that long ago that 280lbs was the standard for ZBS linemen. it's been 290-300lbs lately and looks to be pushing up to 310-320lbs. size is secondary to athleticism, it just so happens that the big guys move well enough to play in our system.
     
  19. powda

    powda Hall of Fame

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    Much like the run and shoot offenses had trouble closing out games with a strong running game the zbs has its own inherent flaw. Our goal line running game. In the past thats always been an issue - finesse linemen have trouble plowing through the last 5yards or so. We've been fortunate to have foster as I think he is the difference in any kind of statistical review. And the texans have done well in adapting to athletic bigger linemen capable of operating in a zbs. At the end of the day though, I have way more confidence in our offense to convert a 3rd and 1 rush in the middle of the field then at the goal line. They just seem to nut up sometimes at the goal line and it doesnt help that kubiak has an entirely different play book on that part of the field.
     
  20. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    Myers, Smith, Brown have been on team and Myers struggled first two years. Numerous posts about this player as you know. Caldwell was brought on to replace center so to compare him would be against Myers. If we look at recent draft picks for Oline in last two years, it seems towards the heavier type player. Ben Jones is a center who may play guard only because Caldwell has not worked at either center or guard.

    The ZBS takes advantage of lighter, quicker of foot players that we seem not to go for in last two drafts. You mention Winston who on numerous talk radio stints said he preferred the "knock the other guy back and to manhandle him". He stated that is what offensive linemen want to do. We seem to have adapted the ZBS since Kubiak's arrival.

    I am not saying I think this will happen, just seems like draft is going that way.
     

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