Winlsow

Discussion in 'The National Football League' started by infantrycak, Jul 30, 2004.

  1. infantrycak

    infantrycak Lead Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    53,980
    Likes Received:
    2,457
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Link

    JMO, but NFL teams need to work on pushing money down from the top 15 players into the lower draft positions. With Manning getting a $20 mil signing bonus (2nd largest ever), Gallery getting $18.5, we are seeing rookies with lots of "potential" exceed the contracts of proven pro-bowlers and blow up the franchise numbers on their initial contracts. Just don't understand how teams can justify paying a rookie more than what a pro-bowler would get as an UFA.
     
  2. Blake

    Blake MMQB

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,201
    Likes Received:
    615
    Location:
    Spring
    I totally agree. But the fact is you are paying for youth. An idea is that you could save your money, drop down into the low 1st or second round, get a good rookie who will play for a fair amount. And use the money you didnt blow on a top 10 player in FA to gain instant power. Not "potential" players. JMHO
     
  3. Fiddy

    Fiddy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    4,314
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    Houston/Austin
    Thats what I said when I heard Manning got 20 million. Thats a bigger signing bonus then what Brett Favre got 4 years ago. IMO, the NFL needs to look into making the rookies signing like the NBA...
     
  4. Porky

    Porky Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Messages:
    12,440
    Likes Received:
    984
    I agree but don't look for that to happen anytime soon. I am very high on Winslow as a player, and even thought about him as a potential Texan, but there were several things tugging at me, chief among those was comments he made, plus the selection of the Postons as his agent. The Postons are notorious for these kind of holdouts. Assuming the Browns are on the up and up here, I wouldn't improve the offer either. Frankly, I would say they are being generous, and Kellen surely isn't making any friends among his potential fan base.
     
  5. Lucky

    Lucky Moderator

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    14,256
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    For one, the draft position indicates the player's value. If there were no college draft and Winslow was on the open market, he'd probably end up with a contract similar to the one he'll eventually sign. There would be enough teams out there that think he's that pro-bowler that he'd get that contact from someone. The college draft isn't necessarily about keeping costs down for rookies, it's about making the talent dispersion fair and equitable. It's about parity.

    I'm just so, so glad the Texans didn't end up with Winslow. Casserly just loves him, but I still think he's the most overrated player coming out of this draft.
     
  6. infantrycak

    infantrycak Lead Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    53,980
    Likes Received:
    2,457
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Well kind of--it indicates their relative value but not absolute dollar value. Maybe my impression is wrong but it seems that the upper end this year has gone slightly nuts. Carr and Palmer got $10 mil bonuses with secondary bonuses of $4 mil and at least in Carr's case that second bonus was not all new money as it bought down his base salaries in future years. The rule of thumb has been 6-10% increase per year for the same position--Manning is getting 80-100% more over a 1-2 year time period.

    That's what just seems odd to me and I'm not sure it's true. Take any of the star players who have finished their rookie contracts and become UFA's, i.e. really hitting the prime of their career--none has ever gotten a signing bonus as big as Manning and they were available on the open market for all the teams to bid on, but would teams really pick the unknown quantity over the proven star in open bidding. Doesn't seem rational.

    Really just commenting that this year seems different. Carr and Palmer are well paid QB's but they weren't pushing the franchise number--Manning, Gallery, Winslow and Taylor are at or above the franchise numbers.
     
  7. Blake

    Blake MMQB

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,201
    Likes Received:
    615
    Location:
    Spring
    The only one out of that group I woulnt mind springing for is Gallery.
     
  8. keyfro

    keyfro Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,859
    Likes Received:
    37
    what the nfl (and really every pro sports league in the nation) needs to do is set the salary for rookies by pick...1st overall can only be paid such and such...2nd this much lower and so one from there...til you get to where they are earning rookie min and the signing bonuses change...and this should also be no matter what position as well...that way you don't have some rookie QB thinking he's god's gift to football and deserves more than a LT...what do ya'll think?
     
  9. texan279

    texan279 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,991
    Likes Received:
    116
    Location:
    Rosenberg TX
    Is is just me or is it crazy to pay a safety and a tight end who have never played in the NFL before that kind of money? And if Winslow turned down the same deal that Sean Taylor got, he's a jack*****. Is he wanting a contract like Manning got? Now that I think about it probably so, wasn't he saying awhile back he should be getting paid #1 pick money?
     
  10. Fiddy

    Fiddy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    4,314
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    Houston/Austin
  11. texan279

    texan279 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,991
    Likes Received:
    116
    Location:
    Rosenberg TX
    Thanks for the link Fiddy...can anyone say INSANITY! What is this guys problem?!?!?!? I tell you what, I am calling the Brown's FO right now and tell them I will play as their starting TE for $250,000 a year...
     
  12. disaacks3

    disaacks3 Site Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,219
    Likes Received:
    896
    Location:
    Spring, TX
    As much as the Browns really need KW, I can't see them backing down on their end. They may tweak the numbers based on how the incentives are reached, etc., but you just can't pay the lower pick more $$$. :crazy:
     
  13. Blake

    Blake MMQB

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,201
    Likes Received:
    615
    Location:
    Spring
    There is no way the NFL will set a certain dollar amount based on pick. **** would hit the fan. And the players coming into the league from college would go nuts. They would want the same thing everyone else got before them. Looks like there is no stopping them.
     
  14. booie4

    booie4 Rookie

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Think about it, if the browns offered KW #5 money in the 1st meeting they'll likely offer more in another week considering how much they need him. It might look like he's greedy to the brown fans, but half of them don't like him anyway. Also the dispute might not be on money but on the length of the contract.
     
  15. texman8

    texman8 Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    north houston
    The Browns are a mess with Butch Davis running the show.
     
  16. JustBonee

    JustBonee Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,762
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Houston
    They have replaced the Bengals as the laughing stock of Ohio.
    Hear that many are predicting the Browns to be the cellar dwellers this season.
    And it sure is looking pretty bleak right now.
     
  17. keyfro

    keyfro Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,859
    Likes Received:
    37
    who cares what the college kids these days want in money...if the nfl was smart they would step in set the salary limit so there would be no rookie hold outs...it would also keep a lot of the juniors in college ball til their senior year...knowing they'll get more money next year...the players can complain all they want but this should be a time for what's best for the club and the fans not the players...they're rookies never played a down of nfl ball...when their first contract is up then they can go for the mega bucks like payton and mcnabb
     
  18. jacquescas

    jacquescas Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,323
    Likes Received:
    5
    I like how the salary rules work, remember no contracts are gaurunteed, and a decent number of high picks bust so it adds up.
     
  19. ROC

    ROC Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    It's obvious. The man just doesn't want to play for this team. You could tell on draft day by the look on his face.
     
  20. JustBonee

    JustBonee Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,762
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Houston

Share This Page