Why is our O-Line so big?

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by AFD1717, Jun 5, 2006.

  1. AFD1717

    AFD1717 Veteran

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    I understand it is more about athleticism than size, but it seems like our o-line is much bigger than others that run the Zone Scheme.

    Denver: AVG - 298

    LT Lepsis - 290
    FG Hamilton - 283
    C Nalen - 286
    RG Carlisle - 295
    RT Foster - 338

    Atlanta: AVG - 302

    LT Gandy - 315
    LG Lehr - 305
    C McClure - 286
    RG Forney - 307
    RT Weiner - 297

    Houston: AVG - 317

    LT Wand - 330 (Spencer 352)
    LG Pitts - 320
    C Flanagan - 301
    RG McKinney - 302
    RT Wiegert - 309 (Winston 302)

    Is it just because we happened to find guys who can move and operate in space that happen to be big too, or are we doing something different?
     
  2. WWJD

    WWJD Hall of Fame

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    Better steak houses in Houston maybe?

    All those guys seem big to me. Isn't it pretty much common for linemen these days to be 300 pounds?
     
  3. Runner

    Runner Hubcap Diamond Staff Member

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    For the most part, the coaches want them at a lower playing weight than shown here. Spencer for one is on a strict diet. Some will lose weight naturally through the rigors of training camp. There may also be cases where we have lineman that are both big and quick enough for the system.
     
  4. AFD1717

    AFD1717 Veteran

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    In a zone scheme, linemen are usually right around 300 or less. Look at the weights of the Denver linemen where this scheme was made popular. The guys in Atlanta are a little bigger than Denver's, but our guys are the size of linemen in a regular scheme.
     
  5. AUSTexan

    AUSTexan Rookie

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    AFD - thanks for posting this question... I've been wondering the same thing.

    I've assumed that since the scheme, Kubiak, et al... is so new, it would take time for everyone to lose the weight. I was a bit thrown, though, when we grabbed Spencer (352) in the draft then tagged him as a LT. They must have seen agility there and surmised that he could lose the weight and gain even more quickness... Runner says he's on a diet, so then maybe that's the case.

    Regardless, good question.
     
  6. texanskan

    texanskan Veteran

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    Push back from the table O-LINE!
     
  7. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    Wand, Pitts, Spencer, Winston are all very athletic linemen who happen to be above 300 lbs. Denver's best OLman is 330 (George Foster). So, the size doesn't preclude a lineman from being successful in this scheme. Todd Wade is the kind of slow-footed lineman that won't work in the system- but I'm pretty sure he's history.
     
  8. Honoring Earl 34

    Honoring Earl 34 Hey Koolaid

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    :twocents: Maybe smaller guys do better not only in the zone blocking but also in the high altitude .
     


  9. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

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    True but speed and quickness are more important than size and power in
    ZB, so if a player is quick at 315, he should be even quicker and therefor even more effective at say 295. And few of these OLineman are trim as they
    use diets and weight train to maxamize bulk, but this priority will now change and expect to see them get lean (relatively speaking).
    Some guys will really benefit: I remember seeing Hodgdon last year at the scrimmages and he was only 6'2" or so tops, but had a really big gut 'cause he wanted to get his weight to around 300. Now he can drop down < 290, and give the coachs even more of what they want by maxamizing his quickness without sacrificing anything.
     
  10. Runner

    Runner Hubcap Diamond Staff Member

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    I'd agree with this for some of the lineman, but they really need to be looked at individually. At the other extreme, having a 6' 7" guy playing at 300 may cost more in strength than he makes up for in additional quickness. Each player has his own weight goals. Quick and mobile at 315 may be better than slightly more quick and mobile at 305.

    I'm sure our strength and conditioning guys are working with the other coaches to reach the right balance for each player.
     
  11. DocBar

    DocBar Hall of Fame

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    IMO, Kubiak is probably making the most of what he has, and will be putting some guys on diets. He had to see what he had to work with during the OTA's before he could assign reporting weights to players. :lightbulb:
     
  12. LORK 88

    LORK 88 Wreck'em Ŧech!

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    Zone blocking scheme has to do with quickness and walling you man off, not so much the weight. Granted, smaller OL have an easier time and are usually quicker, but that isnt always the case. The heaviest guy on there (Spencer) for example is an amazing athlete and has great quickness. You also have to realize that this is year 1 of the Denver running game coming to us, so we have to be patient and give Kubiak some time.
     
  13. TexanFan881

    TexanFan881 Hall of Fame

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    Exactly Lork. If you aren't a certain weight it doesn't mean you can't fit at a certain spot. It doesn't matter if you're a 250 pound lineman or a 350 pound lineman. If you have talent, you have it. If you don't, you don't.
     
  14. AFD1717

    AFD1717 Veteran

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    I agree with this completely. A guy who is 295 lbs who is strong as a bull and can move like a mongoose is worthless if at the end of the day his man beats him. Give me a guy with lovehandles and quickness that understands angles and positioning and he'll succeed in this system despite being 330.

    My point is simply that the guys we found seem to be so much bigger than the guys other teams are using. I understand that Spencer is on a diet and his body hasn't had time to adapt from being a DT, then an OG, then and OT, and now an OT in a Zone Scheme. If we drop him (our biggest guy) and Foster (Denver's biggest guy), the averages come out to:

    Houston: 310.6
    Denver: 288.5

    That is a pretty staggering difference. I was just wondering if we are really running the exact same system as the Broncos or if we've modified it a little.
     
  15. Corrosion

    Corrosion Idealist

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    I think its an assumption from many a fan that only one body type player can fit into this scheme ... Its been driven into our heads on this board since before the draft that the ZBS is better suited to smaller linemen because they are more agile . But if a man of 325-350 lbs can carry the weight and still maintain the agility / quickness required then he in theory should be a better lineman .... Its just not often that a man of that size can carry the weight .
     
  16. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    kubiak didnt have a choice with most of his linemen here. it wasnt as if we could go out and in one season create a new offensive line. one, because we actually did have a little talent already in place, and two because no one lets their offensive linemen become available without a fight. combine that with the fact that many of our linemen are a bit taller, and we're going to be a little heavier than the norm. the heaviest guy on that listing is wand, who at 6'7" is a full 2 inches taller than any starter in denver. he probably wont be dropping much weight because mobility has never been a problem, but strength has been an issue and dropping pounds could be counter productive (although it's been noted that wand carries around what some call "baby fat", he might lean a little as he ages). pitts however could lose 5-10lbs and retain strength if kubiak feels he'd have more to offer if he were to trim down.

    in a few years we could see those numbers drop as we add players of kubiaks' choosing, although wand & spencer will probably offset any shrinking the rest of the line does.
     
  17. Texans Horror

    Texans Horror Hall of Fame

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    Just curious: has anyone posting here met any of the Houston linemen? Specifically, did anyone go to the Total Access thing this past week? Did the linemen look fat? Did Wand look like he's carrying around any baby fat?
     
  18. Maddict5

    Maddict5 Hall of Fame

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    this is purely my theory so its probably wrong but if you look at denver and atlanta..they're both excellent running teams but their linemen arent so great at pass blocking probably due to their lack of size..so maybe kubiak is trying to find a better balance with our o-line with bigger bodies
     
  19. powerfuldragon

    powerfuldragon g'mornin to you

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    your lady's sexdreams.
    Or maybe they just like cheeseburgers.
     
  20. Ibar_Harry

    Ibar_Harry Hall of Fame

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    Is it possible Kubiak - people say he was under a control freak in Denver - has some ideas of his own. As some have said, perhapes we will be seeing the awakening of the Gulf Coast Offense. I keep saying don't paint Kubiak with the same brush as Denver.

    There may be similarities, but I will bet there will be some surprising differences. Again as others have stated Denver had a different style when Elway was there. Kubiak likes Carr a lot and he sees a lot of similarities to Elway. Carr may not be a total Elway, but he has a lot of Elway's traits. Therefore an Elway like offense might make sense.

    I keep saying you don't have 3 wide receivers with the size, hands, and speed we have to sit them on the bench for decoration. They are going to be out there for a reason. Clue #1, I don't think the other team is going to like the reason.
     

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